Mag DK will have no ranged stun- anyone thought that through?

Crom_CCCXVI

so I'm in PvP vs a Sorc and he spamming away, I can't deflect anything anymore because you nerfed wings, and now I'd have to hit him 5x with Stone Giant to stun him, lol. Seriously, might just remove that skill all together from PvP... Can't use a Lighting Staff since Shock Reach no longer stuns. So a Sorc is kiting away pelting me, stunning me with Crystal Blast or Ruin Cage from 30m away--- I literally have no chance.

I guess I could chain in since all MagDk's are supposed to be these slow tanky things that put on 5 dots while holding block right? ESO says we have multiple ways to play, but then you keep giving us fewer and fewer options. For the record, I have been playing a light armor, high DPS mag DK with a staff for about 4 years, this might it for the game. The only chance I even have to stun someone is to hit them first, because for the rest of the fight they will probably have CC immunity (like everyone does)- I think we used to use Talons, but oh yeah they got nerfed also, I think that was right after you nerfed Power Lash with "off balance immunity".... What is next? Damage Immunity maybe?

JumpmanLane

Try Escapist Poison IX Lol. Sure it’s only 20% but when it does proc fools think it’s lag or something and don’t break lol. Hilarity ensues.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Not all classes have ranged stuns. NB doesn’t have one either. Personally, I’d trade mass hysteria for fossilize any day. It’s one of my my favorite stuns especially since mass hysteria was gutted. Are they changing fossilize btw? My DK will NOT be happy about that.

Not all DK’s are the stand there and block types. Like you said, you play differently than that. Sure, most DK’s are those types and I won’t deny that. Most of the “hold block until leap is ready” style DK’s are pretty bad players. Though it would be foolish to deny DK passives certainly cater towards that style of gameplay.

You can’t win all fights. Simply don’t fight a person that clearly has an advantage. If they have room to kite go behind cover or go into a cave or whatever you can to reduce their mobility or range of mobility. Reassess your build. There are options, you just have to be pliable and open to maybe changing some things. Either way, there will always been a counter to your build and without building specifically to fight that, which would be silly to pigeon hole yourself, you’re probably better off not messing with that person.

So many people seem to have this mentality of “this person isn’t fighting me exactly how I want them to fight me and I don’t have the advantage anymore! This isn’t fair!”

Lokey0024

You could use the ardent gap closer that buffs the light attacks lol. Seriously, meme worthy.

Gaggin

Chains synergize well with magdk if range is your issue.

OG_Kaveman

Doesn't obsidian shard have a stun yet?

Lokey0024

Gaggin wrote: »

Chains synergize well with magdk if range is your issue.

It's abysmal for what it's designed for. You dont light attack with melee weapons as a mag class. Now a stun would synergize Stam or Mag, but that would be OP, right? Or stun and offbalance in one click.

NBrookus

So you stun a sorc at range with stone fist... then what? They CC break in half a second and still have way better mobility than you. You have to find a way to cope with ranged magblades and magsorcs because not every match up is going to be 100% equal. As much as I dearly miss tossing their frag back in their face, DKs have 50% reduction from ranged attacks to help us deal with it. Personally I invest a lot into sprint cost reduction to help with mobility.

Generally speaking, if you are on one of the fat slow classes, you just don't chase the sorc. You will run out of resources trying to catch them way before they do, and then they turn and unload on you.

GDOFWR420

Destructive reach will give you a knock back but no stun. Magdk is gonna be in a bad spot come next patch, at least thats how it appears.

Calboy

Hold on, obsidian shard no longer stuns? I've been so focused on the stupid stamina change I assumed obsidian shard still operated as per normal but with one extra person being healed?

robpr

Calboy wrote: »

Hold on, obsidian shard no longer stuns? I've been so focused on the stupid stamina change I assumed obsidian shard still operated as per normal but with one extra person being healed?

Nope.

Fur_like_snow

mDK on the ropes. Hang in there!

Davadin

the *** u talkin about

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

so I'm in PvP vs a Sorc and he spamming away, I can't deflect anything anymore because you nerfed wings, and now I'd have to hit him 5x with Stone Giant to stun him, lol.

ur confusing MagDK and StamDK bruh.

WE, StamDK, got nothin but slinging rock 5 fudgin times to stun.

YOU, MagDK, got a nice, 4k Mag cost Fossilize.

chrightt

Davadin wrote: »

the *** u talkin about

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

so I'm in PvP vs a Sorc and he spamming away, I can't deflect anything anymore because you nerfed wings, and now I'd have to hit him 5x with Stone Giant to stun him, lol.

ur confusing MagDK and StamDK bruh.

WE, StamDK, got nothin but slinging rock 5 fudgin times to stun.

YOU, MagDK, got a nice, 4k Mag cost Fossilize.

His point is he doesn’t know how to get close to a sorcerer that uses cast time fragments so he can’t fossilize lmao, which actually shows his skill level rather than an issue with mag DK. Worst case scenario you just survive and leap and after that, get good at sticking to the target OP.

JumpmanLane

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

mDK on the ropes. Hang in there!

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

mDK on the ropes. Hang in there!

“Ok StamDK, you’re on the ropes too. You’re on the ropes too.” -@Fengrush

robpr

Anybody actually used Stonefist for stuns with that cost? Fossilize cost more but is more efficient in this manner.

Schattenfluegel

Could you play the third skill from sword/board to reflect frags (i think they are classified as projectiles)?

Zer0_CooL

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Not all classes have ranged stuns. NB doesn’t have one either.

Nightblade has a) a working gap closer, and b) cloak to sneak up on enemies.

DK has a chain that doesn't work 80% of the times, and wings that allowed the player to close the gap by feet without taking damage but is now pretty much useless for that use.

Commancho

chrightt wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the *** u talkin about

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

so I'm in PvP vs a Sorc and he spamming away, I can't deflect anything anymore because you nerfed wings, and now I'd have to hit him 5x with Stone Giant to stun him, lol.

ur confusing MagDK and StamDK bruh.

WE, StamDK, got nothin but slinging rock 5 fudgin times to stun.

YOU, MagDK, got a nice, 4k Mag cost Fossilize.

His point is he doesn’t know how to get close to a sorcerer that uses cast time fragments so he can’t fossilize lmao, which actually shows his skill level rather than an issue with mag DK. Worst case scenario you just survive and leap and after that, get good at sticking to the target OP.

Do you suggest using ultimate as gap closer? Let's be honest. This game was much more fun and balanced before Elswyre. I will quit pvp when this crap goes live. Not because I can't adapt, but simply because it won't be fun anymore. Good luck for folks playing CP campaign xD

kpittsniperb14_ESO

chrightt wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the *** u talkin about

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

so I'm in PvP vs a Sorc and he spamming away, I can't deflect anything anymore because you nerfed wings, and now I'd have to hit him 5x with Stone Giant to stun him, lol.

ur confusing MagDK and StamDK bruh.

WE, StamDK, got nothin but slinging rock 5 fudgin times to stun.

YOU, MagDK, got a nice, 4k Mag cost Fossilize.

His point is he doesn’t know how to get close to a sorcerer that uses cast time fragments so he can’t fossilize lmao, which actually shows his skill level rather than an issue with mag DK. Worst case scenario you just survive and leap and after that, get good at sticking to the target OP.

Apparently the point is you don't know how to play sorc if you're having any issue fighting Mag DK on live currently. Also apparently the point is that you can't stay far enough away from the least mobile class in the game while playing the most mobile class in the game to prevent him from CC'ing you with a MELEE range CC. Talk about lmao. So say I take your sage advice and use my ultimate as a gap closer to get to the sorc….you know the thing I'm supposed to somehow save for burst because I have none and the thing I'm supposed to save for sustain because the class sustain comes from battle roar to get on top of the most mobile class in the game? So I do this and then what? Start my soon to be pathetic dot stack and watch as the sorc bolts away starting the process over again hoping that he's too stupid to slot any self heals or purge and that I've intimidated him into running away through bluster and bluff? Yeah, that's going to work well.

And for Mag DK's that haven't been running Stone Giant I don't know what to tell you guys. It's and extremely effective long range CC and more than worth a slot on your bar. I'm more upset about losing this skill than the nerfs to our dots. Not to mention the reworked version for stamina is hot garbage and won't be used outside of niche builds so a wasted effort all around....(pausing to slow clap for ZOS). Between this and the removal of Reflective Scale Mag DK has gone from the strongest class VS range to one of the weakest due to all of the built in limitations of the class.

I don't know if you guys actually believe the stuff you write or you're just trying to be contrarians because you're bored.Seriously, the dude is just asking for one of the few tools Mag DK has left to deal with ranged opponents to be left alone and he's right. Stam DK is going to be right there with us and no, I don't care where anything is parsing on a target dummy....doesn't mean squat in pvp.

Solariken

Uh... Gap closer? Then you're in range for the best CC available.

kpittsniperb14_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

Uh... Gap closer? Then you're in range for the best CC available.

Gap closer only works if your close enough to the target to fire the gap closer which again, assumes that your opponent is just going to stand there and let you get into range. Class closer for Mag DK is buggy and unreliable....not worth slotting which is why you rarely see it used. If they could ever get around to actually fixing chains it would solve some issues to be sure but apparently they can't be bothered to do so.

Stamina has some nice options but rarely has the mag to use the best CC in the game as it is so expensive after being repeatedly nerfed over and over and over. Still possible assuming they only need to use it once to close out the kill. Running a stamina gap closer on a mag class is just overall a bad idea but it can be done. Tougher to do on a class that requires you to invest heavily into mag sustain just to maintain. Given your AvA experience you know all of this already.

Looking at these skills in a vacuum without taking into consideration how they compliment and offset the weaknesses built into a given class is a poor way to balance. I can't believe we're in a place that we actually have to argue about saving Stonefist for Mag DK by debating the finer points of how you might theoretically be able to kill a Sorc if they are dumb enough to let you do it.

Edit: The point I'm making here is that I'm using Stone giant on live, buying myself time to close distance....fire a gap closer and get on target to start my rotation overcoming the above limitations. Taking that tool away from Mag DK is going to gut the class when fighting range. L2P doesn't apply here.

Xvorg

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

so I'm in PvP vs a Sorc and he spamming away, I can't deflect anything anymore because you nerfed wings, and now I'd have to hit him 5x with Stone Giant to stun him, lol. Seriously, might just remove that skill all together from PvP... Can't use a Lighting Staff since Shock Reach no longer stuns. So a Sorc is kiting away pelting me, stunning me with Crystal Blast or Ruin Cage from 30m away--- I literally have no chance.

I guess I could chain in since all MagDk's are supposed to be these slow tanky things that put on 5 dots while holding block right? ESO says we have multiple ways to play, but then you keep giving us fewer and fewer options. For the record, I have been playing a light armor, high DPS mag DK with a staff for about 4 years, this might it for the game. The only chance I even have to stun someone is to hit them first, because for the rest of the fight they will probably have CC immunity (like everyone does)- I think we used to use Talons, but oh yeah they got nerfed also, I think that was right after you nerfed Power Lash with "off balance immunity".... What is next? Damage Immunity maybe?

DK won't have any ranged skill... that's even worse.

How will you counter DKs? Just press D.

Xvorg

NBrookus wrote: »

So you stun a sorc at range with stone fist... then what? They CC break in half a second and still have way better mobility than you. You have to find a way to cope with ranged magblades and magsorcs because not every match up is going to be 100% equal. As much as I dearly miss tossing their frag back in their face, DKs have 50% reduction from ranged attacks to help us deal with it. Personally I invest a lot into sprint cost reduction to help with mobility.

Generally speaking, if you are on one of the fat slow classes, you just don't chase the sorc. You will run out of resources trying to catch them way before they do, and then they turn and unload on you.

Please, stop saying ranged for Talos sake. Wings don't help you with almost 50% of ranged attacks.

Projectiles, that's what we got, PROJECTILES. JB will hit for 100%, same as soul assault, force shock, silver shards (being an AoE cannot be reflected, and DKs are mostly vamps).

Davadin

chrightt wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

the *** u talkin about

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

so I'm in PvP vs a Sorc and he spamming away, I can't deflect anything anymore because you nerfed wings, and now I'd have to hit him 5x with Stone Giant to stun him, lol.

ur confusing MagDK and StamDK bruh.

WE, StamDK, got nothin but slinging rock 5 fudgin times to stun.

YOU, MagDK, got a nice, 4k Mag cost Fossilize.

His point is he doesn’t know how to get close to a sorcerer that uses cast time fragments so he can’t fossilize lmao, which actually shows his skill level rather than an issue with mag DK. Worst case scenario you just survive and leap and after that, get good at sticking to the target OP.

if u can't/won't use chain-pull, 2H or 1HS's gap closer, or Fighter's Guild skill, or don't want to slot Take Flight DK Leap........



.......... bruh, that's just L2P.

Perashim

So.... As a fledgling magDK....

Will Obsidian Shard still work for a spammable or is there another skill I should use?

Zer0_CooL

@Solariken

Solariken wrote: »

Uh... Gap closer? Then you're in range for the best CC available.

The thing with the DKs gapcloser is that a) it's not working 4 of 5 times and b) that the target gets cc imunity after you pulled it. So your suggested tactic wont work even you can pull your target.

Zer0_CooL

Perashim wrote: »

So.... As a fledgling magDK....

Will Obsidian Shard still work for a spammable or is there another skill I should use?

You can spam it sure, but did you ever take a look at the tooltip? it makes almost no damage.

Perashim

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

So.... As a fledgling magDK....

Will Obsidian Shard still work for a spammable or is there another skill I should use?

You can spam it sure, but did you ever take a look at the tooltip? it makes almost no damage.

Any recommendations for a replacement? Currently I use Stone Giant, but since it's about to go stam....

Zer0_CooL

Perashim wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

So.... As a fledgling magDK....

Will Obsidian Shard still work for a spammable or is there another skill I should use?

You can spam it sure, but did you ever take a look at the tooltip? it makes almost no damage.

Any recommendations for a replacement? Currently I use Stone Giant, but since it's about to go stam....

Well i dont think the shard isn't meant to be a damage spamable either, you got the whip for that or one of the weapon skills, depending on your build.
The shard is a stun with an additional heal. So as a stun its still good, or use fozilise. It's a mater of personal preferation i think.

Solariken

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

@Solariken

Solariken wrote: »

Uh... Gap closer? Then you're in range for the best CC available.

The thing with the DKs gapcloser is that a) it's not working 4 of 5 times and b) that the target gets cc imunity after you pulled it. So your suggested tactic wont work even you can pull your target.

@Zer0_CooL I was of course referring to the morph that pulls you to the target. It works as well as every other gap closer and it's undodgeable and doesn't CC the target.