Faction Lock | Please list the 30 days no-faction lock campaign first

IronWooshu

vamp_emily wrote: »

Even though I will be playing in the faction lock campaign, I hope the no-lock faction campaign is a success. I would hate to see it end up like the "no cp" campaign where everyone said "no cp is so much fun" but not many people played there.

Maybe they should list the non-lock faction first and name it something like:

Laatvulon ( click here click here )

No CP isnt fun.. that's why it's dead.

VaranisArano

This whole argument is stupid because its predicated on the belief that PVP players are too dumb to tell the difference between two 30 day CP campaigns beyond "Its first."

Its basically saying "Faction play? Playing all my alts? Scroll trolling? Playing with multifaction friends? High population? Competitive gameplay? No, all those reasons given on both sides are BS. All that is nothing compared to "Which campaign is listed first on the Alliance War tab? That's what really determines the dominant campaign."

I have a little more faith in the PVP player base than that.

ZOS will pick whichever one gets listed first, and it probably won't make a lick of difference compared to, you know, the actual gameplay differences between the campaigns.

Katahdin

If unlocked is what people really want then they will find the unlocked campaign.

Having it not listed first is actually a better test.

If they can't find it then they are either lazy, cant read, stupid or dont care.

SenpaiNFT

Agreed

kojou

I think a lot of players will do both... at least long enough to get on tier one on all the characters they care about, and then go play on the one they like better/has more fights.

I will contend that there will be less dishonorable shenanigans on the faction locked campaign though.

Also, I will go to whatever campaign my PvP guild goes to and I figure most other players are in the same position, so really which campaign is more popular will be decided by the guild leaders of major PvP guilds, and most of us will just follow them.

grannas211

Just delete the faction locked campaign entirely.

Sanct16

VaranisArano wrote: »

This whole argument is stupid because its predicated on the belief that PVP players are too dumb to tell the difference between two 30 day CP campaigns beyond "Its first."

Its basically saying "Faction play? Playing all my alts? Scroll trolling? Playing with multifaction friends? High population? Competitive gameplay? No, all those reasons given on both sides are BS. All that is nothing compared to "Which campaign is listed first on the Alliance War tab? That's what really determines the dominant campaign."

I have a little more faith in the PVP player base than that.

ZOS will pick whichever one gets listed first, and it probably won't make a lick of difference compared to, you know, the actual gameplay differences between the campaigns.

It's predicated on the belief that the majority of players doesn't care and will take the most popular campaign.
Since the majority doesn't care the most popular campaign will most likely be the campaign that gets displayed first.

VaranisArano

Sanct16 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This whole argument is stupid because its predicated on the belief that PVP players are too dumb to tell the difference between two 30 day CP campaigns beyond "Its first."

Its basically saying "Faction play? Playing all my alts? Scroll trolling? Playing with multifaction friends? High population? Competitive gameplay? No, all those reasons given on both sides are BS. All that is nothing compared to "Which campaign is listed first on the Alliance War tab? That's what really determines the dominant campaign."

I have a little more faith in the PVP player base than that.

ZOS will pick whichever one gets listed first, and it probably won't make a lick of difference compared to, you know, the actual gameplay differences between the campaigns.

It's predicated on the belief that the majority of players doesn't care and will take the most popular campaign.
Since the majority doesn't care the most popular campaign will most likely be the campaign that gets displayed first.

Most PVP players are going to pick the most populated and competitive campaign, whichever one that is regardless of order. Because they actually want to PVP, you know? Most casual farmers will pick the unlocked campaign because they want those transmute crystals on all their Alts.

So if pro-unlock players are really that confident in the draw of unlocked PVP, I'd expect them to figure they'll attract enough players to make themselves the most populated, most competitive campaign anyway. Certainly, that's what they've been claiming for the last several months.

Turns out, some aren't so confident to the point they think being listed second to the faction-locked campaign is the determining factor in their popularity.

amir412

VaranisArano wrote: »

This whole argument is stupid because its predicated on the belief that PVP players are too dumb to tell the difference between two 30 day CP campaigns beyond "Its first."

Its basically saying "Faction play? Playing all my alts? Scroll trolling? Playing with multifaction friends? High population? Competitive gameplay? No, all those reasons given on both sides are BS. All that is nothing compared to "Which campaign is listed first on the Alliance War tab? That's what really determines the dominant campaign."

I have a little more faith in the PVP player base than that.

ZOS will pick whichever one gets listed first, and it probably won't make a lick of difference compared to, you know, the actual gameplay differences between the campaigns.

I never said that i think the PVP players are dumb, I just think that most of the players dont care about faction-lock, and the majority of the players that belong to the faction-lock confilct, are against the lock (By polls that i can link if u want).

If you guys so confident that the majority prefers faction-lock, why u guys care so much that it wont be listed first?
I smell fear.

sharquez

At this point I can't help but assume that people who are pro faction locks a trolls who have no stake in it one way or the other. The fact of the matter is it's preventing people from playing the game, and that doesn't help anyone.

Taleof2Cities

sharquez wrote: »

At this point I can't help but assume that people who are pro faction locks a trolls who have no stake in it one way or the other.

Huh?

PvP players prefer faction lock ... that’s about as simple and granular as it gets.

Otherwise, they would move to the non-faction locked campaign and play there.

sharquez wrote: »

The fact of the matter is it's preventing people from playing the game, and that doesn't help anyone.

You preventing yourself from playing one campaign or the other isn’t anyone else’s fault ... especially not ZOS’s.

sharquez

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

At this point I can't help but assume that people who are pro faction locks a trolls who have no stake in it one way or the other.

Huh?

PvP players prefer faction lock ... that’s about as simple and granular as it gets.

Otherwise, they would move to the non-faction locked campaign and play there.

sharquez wrote: »

The fact of the matter is it's preventing people from playing the game, and that doesn't help anyone.

You preventing yourself from playing one campaign or the other isn’t anyone else’s fault ... especially not ZOS’s.

You don't speak for every PVPer. It was an arbitrary restriction that was decided for us that stops people from playing the characters they want to in the content they want to. My guild is not playing in the dead campaign that was dead before faction locks went into place.

I want to play with my guild. With my friends. I can't because of faction locks. That is not on me. If there was an active population in the non faction lock server we would all be there but there are not enough PVPers.

Swap which server was locked and which server wasn't and I am 100% certain there would not be a mass exodus to the locked one. It did not affect a large player population because not everyone has multiple characters on multiple factions. I have conversations with maybe a handful of people who were pro locks including you. I have had multiple guilds full of people that think it was a stupid idea. I'm not going to to speak for them however because I don't, I just want to be able to jump on on whatever friday i play the game on and play with my friends.

Also If there were no faction locks no one would be bringing up this issue every 10 minutes so .hey look another Pro for you.

Taleof2Cities

Sorry, @sharquez, that ship has sailed.

If “multiple guilds” think it was a stupid idea, then why didn’t they move to the non-faction lock campaign??

More importantly, you and your guildies have had over two (2) months now to level a new character in your favorite Alliance ... so that you can all play together in the faction-locked campaign.

All I see is non-action and complaining on you and your guild’s end. Someone still living in September 2019 that refuses to grasp change.

sharquez

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Sorry, @sharquez, that ship has sailed.

If “multiple guilds” think it was a stupid idea, then why didn’t they move to the non-faction lock campaign??

More importantly, you and your guildies have had over two (2) months now to level a new character in your favorite Alliance ... so that you can all play together in the faction-locked campaign.

All I see is non-action and complaining on you and your guild’s end. Someone still living in September 2019 that refuses to grasp change.

These guild have by now been disbanded, many of their players have quit or gone on hiatus but some of them have formed up again recently to try to play again on a different faction.

I am complaining not because I am not attempting to take action, but because I cannot take action because i can't pay over a million gold or AP to change which character I can home to whatever campaign.

It really boils down quite simply to this: I went on hiatus from the game and came back after several months. I want to play with my friends and cannot because faction locks have prevented me from doing so without paying for it with money I do not have. I already payed for the game, I payed my monthly ESO+ sub but I still cant play. How does that make any sense?

If faction locks went away you would still be able to play with your friends, It would do nothing to impact your enjoyment of the game. I currently, right now, today, cannot do so.

I am justifiably displeased by something that directly affects me and how i play the game when the same situation wouldn't even affect you one way or the other. Which makes me wonder what your stake in all this is?

I am taking action by bringing my situation to light instead of simply quitting because i value the relationships I have cultivated in this game playing for 5 years. I want this to change. That won't happen by staying quiet and quitting.

Taleof2Cities

sharquez wrote: »

If faction locks went away you would still be able to play with your friends, It would do nothing to impact your enjoyment of the game. I currently, right now, today, cannot do so.

Nope.

I could recap the laundry list of reasons why faction locks were implemented ... but I think you know what those are already.

If faction locks went away, you would be forcing your playstyle on me and the vast majority of PvP players.

Whatever your time (and your guildies’ time) away from the game was, ZOS has now changed the environment for the better. So, your choices are:

(a). Play in the non-faction locked campaign ... which ZOS has generously raised to 30-days for equal rewards to the faction locked campaign.

(b). Adapt to the faction locked campaign by rolling a new character in your favorite Alliance. Players can level a new character in about a day ... provided they’re focused and diligent about getting skill points.

(c). Continue posting in the forums about how “life isn’t fair” ... thus forfeiting that time that you could be moving ahead with (a) or (b).

sharquez

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

If faction locks went away you would still be able to play with your friends, It would do nothing to impact your enjoyment of the game. I currently, right now, today, cannot do so.

Nope.

I could recap the laundry list of reasons why faction locks were implemented ... but I think you know what those are already.

If faction locks went away, you would be forcing your playstyle on me and the vast majority of PvP players.

Whatever your time (and your guildies’ time) away from the game was, ZOS has now changed the environment for the better. So, your choices are:

(a). Play in the non-faction locked campaign ... which ZOS has generously raised to 30-days for equal rewards to the faction locked campaign.

(b). Adapt to the faction locked campaign by rolling a new character in your favorite Alliance. Players can level a new character in about a day ... provided they’re focused and diligent about getting skill points.

(c). Continue posting in the forums about how “life isn’t fair” ... thus forfeiting that time that you could be moving ahead with (a) or (b).

Oooh a multiple choice ultimatum.

(a.) The non faction locked campaign is not populated by the friends and guild mates with whom I play the game, and actually quite frequently isn't populated at all. To summarize, my problem is: I want to play with my friends against other players. Your solution is play by yourself against doors.

(b.) You are out of touch with what the issue I am having is, failing to pick up on context clues in the conversation with and assuming incompetence. I have fully leveled characters on all factions. If i didn't I wouldn't have this problem.

(c.) You are assuming that I spend all my potential game time on the forums and not doing anything else? That's rather silly.
I can certainly pop in on lunch breaks or on the john to make conversation,

Here's some advice for you. Since you 1. already have what you want, 2. don't have any tangible stake in this because it doesn't affect you and 3, are seeming to fail to grasp the issue at hand, find someone else to bother. That way you don't bump the thread (furthering visibility for me and my cause which you clearly oppose) and I can scream into the wind all i want without you raising your blood pressure?

Moonsorrow

vamp_emily wrote: »

Even though I will be playing in the faction lock campaign, I hope the no-lock faction campaign is a success. I would hate to see it end up like the "no cp" campaign where everyone said "no cp is so much fun" but not many people played there.

Maybe they should list the non-lock faction first and name it something like:

Laatvulon ( click here click here )

PC EU No-CP imo is very popular, well as popular as anything pvp related been since bad performance and some mechanics/balance/identity decisions has erased some activity numbers for a long time. It is still pop locked at primetime and at most times good action, well not that much regularly between the 3am-6am times outside of some small group maybe pvdooring empty map, but to me it feels pretty much as populated as the Kaalgrontiid since there is same situation.

No idea on how things are at other platforms though.

And while Alliance Lock is not perfect solution, it has done good for the unity of the alliances and people i`ve talked with feel value on spending time working for common goal and with fewer trolls. Because in the end, being able to switch back and forth on alliances is same as if could do that on Battlegrounds, logging out and joining the other teams in middle of same match - it devaluates the work people do there and make it pointless on that game mode.

Those who like to balance and help underdogs, have and already do so after every time a campaign ends by moving to the one that was last, since most often the zergling minds move to the winning alliance since they expect another win there with minimal effort. I have empathy to those who first had troubles with the new rule set, but.. after some time on it, people have adapted and yes - people can play with their friends.

I do wish people find the unlocked campaign too though, good to have fun and right place for everyone. We just need to get the promised performance improvements and we will get pvp population back on the rise again. Before that it is sort of pointless on talking about what is more popular and so on.

I would not mind them putting Laatvulon on top position at the next Campaign cycle as "first pick" and see how it goes. Because while yes, Laatvulon would be a heavon for the AP farmer thuglife style, i have feeling many who play at Kaaskoppen and Bahhumbug have started to like the unity feeling of 30 days more than the flipflop possibility, even when it would benefit them and/or make life "easier" if could switch or get some Vegan Squads, Fist Pumpers and Barbarian Queens on demand when own alliance is being rekt to the gates.

Getting rekt to the gates builds character - true warriors stay, atleast for salty /zone chat!

tl/dr: I support this idea to see where we stand. And even more i wanna see the performance increases so all campaigns would get more healthy 24/7 population.

Moonsorrow

amir412 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This whole argument is stupid because its predicated on the belief that PVP players are too dumb to tell the difference between two 30 day CP campaigns beyond "Its first."

Its basically saying "Faction play? Playing all my alts? Scroll trolling? Playing with multifaction friends? High population? Competitive gameplay? No, all those reasons given on both sides are BS. All that is nothing compared to "Which campaign is listed first on the Alliance War tab? That's what really determines the dominant campaign."

I have a little more faith in the PVP player base than that.

ZOS will pick whichever one gets listed first, and it probably won't make a lick of difference compared to, you know, the actual gameplay differences between the campaigns.

I never said that i think the PVP players are dumb, I just think that most of the players dont care about faction-lock, and the majority of the players that belong to the faction-lock confilct, are against the lock (By polls that i can link if u want).

If you guys so confident that the majority prefers faction-lock, why u guys care so much that it wont be listed first?
I smell fear.

Funny thing is, when there was no locked campaigns, it was like 70% of people wanting to put locks on the campaigns on the polls.

When that happened, people happily play on them and no need to vote on new polls anymore so obviously the new polls are only pretty much voted by the No to locks -people and thus give that result showing.

Obvious result is obvious. You know this.

But, as said.. my previous message explains things better and i for one would not mind testing things like that, putting Laatvulon at the top. I give it couple days to go back to low pop after some people zerglings go in and get farmed by flipflop trains and remember what it was like before locks. and then they go back to Kaal and Bah.

Would really be surprised to see any other result. But who knows, would be interesting test for sure.

mursie

please remove faction lock from no-cp. why is a dead campaign further stifled by this?

MCBIZZLE300

amir412 wrote: »

So, next patch we are getting 2 campaigns of 30 days (CP).
Finally we will be able to tell, which mode most of the PVP community prefers,
Over the faction-lock only era, i've noticed there is a repeated claim from those in favor of faction-lock, that they willing move(with their guilds/friends) - to play on a faction lock campaign no matter what.

@Sanct16 raised a solid point that the campiagn which will be listed first, will be the most populated one.
Please set the no-faction locked campaign listed first so we can actually see if the faction-locked players willing to move as they claimed.

I agree, i posted this very same topic a while ago.

Dusk_Coven

If you wanted a locked campaign but accidentally entered an unlocked one, there's no real penalty having made the mistake and hence no real motivation to not making the same mistake again.

So, set the Faction LOCKED campaign first. All the crying will show who got locked out when they didn't mean to enter the locked campaign. That would show how much people actually want an unlocked campaign.

Casterial

Just give players a reason to play them "Hey these servers are full, get 10-20k gold just for playing this for an hour!" or "Double AP for x time on server" to make people rotate servers

Beardimus

OMG this thread is hilarious. How utterly bizarre.

No lock camp are that much in denial that people prefer faction lock they now blame the sequence of the listing.

Brilliant!! Seen it all now.

Theres a choice, and from what I hear on most platforms folks have chosen Faction Lock.

Qbiken

Beardimus wrote: »

OMG this thread is hilarious. How utterly bizarre.

No lock camp are that much in denial that people prefer faction lock they now blame the sequence of the listing.

Brilliant!! Seen it all now.

Theres a choice, and from what I hear on most platforms folks have chosen Faction Lock.

I doubt it, people will play on the campaigns where they're most likely to find some action, which has nothing to do with factions locks. The 2 biggest 30 day campaigns (kaal and baal) has ALWAYS been the most populated ones regardless of faction locks existing or not.

If ZOS all of a sudden decided to make Laatvulon the only faction locked campaign (and make kaalgrontid and baahlokdan unlocked campaigns) the large majority would still stay on kaalgrontid and baahlokdan, because that's where you know people actually play.

I'd rather see faction locks removed, but what pains me the most is that I've to pay 100k AP for every character I've if I want to unhome me from a campaign (if I want to play for another faction). That *** has to go, changing faction when campaign is over should be free.

Derra

I have an idea:

How about we don´t have different rosters for the campaigns at all and then a weird name that changes every year.

How about we put all campaigns in one single roster and name them according to what they are:
30 Day non locked CP
30 Day faction locked CP
30 Day faction locked noCP
30 Day faction locked noCP lvl 1-49

biminirwb17_ESO

If they changed the faction locked campaign I would move to it no matter what number it was in the list of names.

I wonder why the unlocked fans dont do similar?

sabina175

I don t know about other platforms, but on ps4 the nocp is always empty, so I would put that first just to see if it would be populated then, as it was suggested that ppl always choose the first campaign.

josh.lackey_ESO

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If faction locks went away, you would be forcing your playstyle on me and the vast majority of PvP players.

This is wrong. You could still play only one faction with no locked campaigns, if you preferred that playstyle.

What you mean is, if factions locks went away, people would no longer be forced to play under your preferred playstyle -- which is not the preferred playstyle of most players despite your forceful assertion. Though it might be by this point, as people quit the game over it, and Cyrodiil continues a slow death by attrition.

Kr3do

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

The claim of no-faction lock players is that unlocked is clearly desired by more players.
So, why the worry that players won't flock to your new campaign if you aren't listed first?

Just see how it was during the IC event, the ic campaigns that was "first in order" always had the highest population. OP has a point, and it would be an interesting thing to test, at least for one patch.

the only point the OP is making is that ppl are to dumb to read or to lazy to scroll 20 pixels extra

Not what he's saying at all.
The majority of the players don't care whether or not a campaign is faction locked or not because they only play PvP casually.
So they're just going to enter the most populated campaign which happens to be the faction locked one because 1. it existed before the non-locked campaign so people didn't bother switching and 2. because it is on the top of the list.

amir412

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

If they changed the faction locked campaign I would move to it no matter what number it was in the list of names.

I wonder why the unlocked fans dont do similar?

Talk is cheap buddy, We all know no one is bored enough to play in a dead campaign.