Patch looks pretty damn good

MaleAmazon

No, really.

- Neat new sets (that hopefully won't be nerfed to the ground by whiny testers like soldier of anguish was).

- 3-p sets now better meaning the unique 2-p sets will be used more.

- Mount can no longer sprint with no stamina but stamina was increased and drains more slowly so this makes perfect sense and is as it always should have been. Mounts sprinting forever with no stamina when they could not start sprinting with no stamina made no sense.

- Standardizing dots and aoes is fundamentally good. Numbers are debatable.

- Good group finder and queueing changes. No more BG penalty for bad teams, no more 'kicked out of dungeon before quest complete'.

- Generally seemingly good changes like dizzying swing.

-Werewolf bleed got a big nerf but blood moon is a lot better so I might hold on to my furry form a bit longer.

- They had the guts to decrease damage, thus reducing power creep. Yes, seeing someone bypassing Voriak Solkyn's upstairs phase was impressive. Yes, I think it shows dps has gone over the top.

Really, I am only a bit worried over some questionable changes like applying off-balance which might be too strong when combined with a heavy attack weave. Also dubious templar changes and entropy changes, etc.

Also the DoT / AoE nerfs do seem like overkill. But that can be adjusted. Say 1.5x instead of 1.25x.

Oh, and people who want to leave should just leave. Don't spam whine threads, don't destroy sets on your way out by calling for huge nerfs because you can't beat up large groups of newbies in Cyrodiil anymore.

I have been around since the start and tbh, despite many debatable changes, by large the game has gotten better and better. All classes are played, population is good, ui and qol have consistently gotten better. ESO has survived, many of us have adapted and overcome. I got my first vMA no-death no-sigil werewolf clear a few days ago. If you are tired of the game that is understandable and I respect it, but don't act like the game has gotten worse and worse because it has not.

Now we just need veteran questing mode.

to all.

GraphicArtistYT

Rip ESO

Palidon

For me this game is so done. They have gone completely crazy with the nerfs. Forget fixing any of the numerous bugs and performance issues. Oh well I could care less at this point. Was a good run. Stuck with the game since beta but now just Tired of complaining and having to adjust to their constant changes every update.

I have always played a stamina Nightblade bow/2h or DW build. For me their is no adjusting to the bow changes in this upcoming update. ZOS has gone completely bonkers.

mairwen85

There’s always at least one. That’s balance, don’t you know.

MasterSpatula

There is little overlap between the players benefiting from over-the-top power-creep dps and the players who will be most impacted by these changes.

richo262

MaleAmazon wrote: »

No, really.

- Neat new sets (that hopefully won't be nerfed to the ground by whiny testers like soldier of anguish was).

- 3-p sets now better meaning the unique 2-p sets will be used more.

- Mount can no longer sprint with no stamina but stamina was increased and drains more slowly so this makes perfect sense and is as it always should have been. Mounts sprinting forever with no stamina when they could not start sprinting with no stamina made no sense.

- Standardizing dots and aoes is fundamentally good. Numbers are debatable.

- Good group finder and queueing changes. No more BG penalty for bad teams, no more 'kicked out of dungeon before quest complete'.

- Generally seemingly good changes like dizzying swing.

-Werewolf bleed got a big nerf but blood moon is a lot better so I might hold on to my furry form a bit longer.

- They had the guts to decrease damage, thus reducing power creep. Yes, seeing someone bypassing Voriak Solkyn's upstairs phase was impressive. Yes, I think it shows dps has gone over the top.

Really, I am only a bit worried over some questionable changes like applying off-balance which might be too strong when combined with a heavy attack weave. Also dubious templar changes and entropy changes, etc.

Also the DoT / AoE nerfs do seem like overkill. But that can be adjusted. Say 1.5x instead of 1.25x.

Oh, and people who want to leave should just leave. Don't spam whine threads, don't destroy sets on your way out by calling for huge nerfs because you can't beat up large groups of newbies in Cyrodiil anymore.

I have been around since the start and tbh, despite many debatable changes, by large the game has gotten better and better. All classes are played, population is good, ui and qol have consistently gotten better. ESO has survived, many of us have adapted and overcome. I got my first vMA no-death no-sigil werewolf clear a few days ago. If you are tired of the game that is understandable and I respect it, but don't act like the game has gotten worse and worse because it has not.

Now we just need veteran questing mode.

to all.

Pretty sure this was part way toward vet questing mode. As DPS gets nerfed, overland gets harder.

Daedric_NB_187

As I said in another thread. There is always that one. But don't worry. I'm not spamming the forums with my opinion of how *** the past year has been with nerfs and changes. I took my ball and went home. Have fun with this garbage.

WoppaBoem

Thank you and thought the same, but whinging will be plenty fulll

MaleAmazon

There is little overlap between the players benefiting from over-the-top power-creep dps and the players who will be most impacted by these changes.

And who are these players? People complain that lower tier players 'always spam only LA' so they should not be too impacted. Yes the DoT nerf seems like too much. (OTOH this patch ppl complained that the game was dot spam so go figure). I don't think it will be quite as big a nerf on live tbh.

ESO was perfectly playable when the game was harder, CP was lower and sets were worse. Several of the nerfed skills got boosts as well as nerfs, and I doubt any class was 'gutted'; how many times have I not heard that about sorcs and NBs - yet they are alive and kicking in PvP.

And if you cannot complete dungeons if your dps is lowered - adapt. Learn mechanics. Not being able to dps and bypass mechanics is largely good. We cleared vMoL on a semi-PUG a long time ago with several people, me included, having to learn the mechanics as we did the dungeon, and having less CP and upgraded gear. So long as that can be done things are fine. The only issue I have with it is that (especially the older) trials have mechanics that are poorly explained, however google exists and once you learn, you'll know that trial - the mechanics haven't changed.


And by the way (and this is serious advice): if someone's life is ruined because their build performs worse in a computer game, imo that person has maybe lost their aim a bit. Yes, it's not all for fun and competition is nice, but seriously... take a break and rethink why you play.

Commancho

Looking forward 3-piece buff. I have bought all golden 3-piece jewelry dirty cheap long time ago. I hope it's a time to clean a dust from it and slap together with some 2piece weapons.

Mathius_Mordred

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Oh, and people who want to leave should just leave. Don't spam whine threads, don't destroy sets on your way out by calling for huge nerfs because you can't beat up large groups of newbies in Cyrodiil anymore.
.

Only praise threads are allowed, I see. Did you dye you armour white yet?

I'm quite happy to come here and read why some people, including me, think this current PTS patch is BS and why some people, like you think it's sliced bread, however you ruin your own post be telling others how they should think. Bollocks to that, I disagree with most of your post and the patch stinks. It spoils my fun, I don't like it, I have a right to complain just as you have a right to praise.

Bigevilpeter

Nothing of the other changes matter if they killed the dps of every single class because a top few facerolled stuff. No one goes full 50% damage nerfs, dont think it ever happened in any game. The Devs just went full *** there

MaleAmazon

Only praise threads are allowed, I see. Did you dye you armour white yet?

I'm quite happy to come here and read why some people, including me, think this current PTS patch is BS and why some people, like you think it's sliced bread, however you ruin your own post be telling others how they should think.

Yes, I like white armour. It goes well with my high horse as I ride to my tall tower!

Also, better that than involuntarily dyeing part of my armour brown with every patch.

I don't tell others how to think. However, the following annoys me:

1) people bashing patch changes while ignoring important parts of the changes; e.g. hating on mount no-stamina no-sprint while ignoring that ZOS clearly stated they had increased base stamina and regeneration, and reduced stamina drain, to compensate.

2) people stating ZOS has "no direction" when they clearly state they are in the process of standardizing abilities in order to achieve better balance and making the process easier from here on. Going from 2.5x to 1.25x for the DoT baseline damage multiplier is imo too much, however I think this will be 1.5 or 1.75 on live and quite frankly, it is probably pretty fine.

Personally I would have put DoT damage higher, at 1.75 or 2x perhaps, but introduced a more useful universal purge in the AW skilline than the current one, like changing the 'cleanse' morph into a cheaper ego negative effects removal, somewhat analogous to the vigor change. It is strange that purging has such a wide difference in availability.

Also I would hate to see this game go the way of Age of Empires 3. In AoE 3 the devs caved in to the whining eventually, listened too much to 'expert' players and let them balance the game, which led to many interesting maps simply being removed from quick matchmaking, as well as many units being hard to use for casuals - and in the end Japan was so overtuned that they had to patch them again anyway. Balance was in the end not really *that* much better than before.

TragedyOA

Cancelled my ESO+ not paying for this crap
anymore.

MasterSpatula

MaleAmazon wrote: »

There is little overlap between the players benefiting from over-the-top power-creep dps and the players who will be most impacted by these changes.

And who are these players? People complain that lower tier players 'always spam only LA' so they should not be too impacted. Yes the DoT nerf seems like too much. (OTOH this patch ppl complained that the game was dot spam so go figure). I don't think it will be quite as big a nerf on live tbh.

ESO was perfectly playable when the game was harder, CP was lower and sets were worse. Several of the nerfed skills got boosts as well as nerfs, and I doubt any class was 'gutted'; how many times have I not heard that about sorcs and NBs - yet they are alive and kicking in PvP.

And if you cannot complete dungeons if your dps is lowered - adapt. Learn mechanics. Not being able to dps and bypass mechanics is largely good. We cleared vMoL on a semi-PUG a long time ago with several people, me included, having to learn the mechanics as we did the dungeon, and having less CP and upgraded gear. So long as that can be done things are fine. The only issue I have with it is that (especially the older) trials have mechanics that are poorly explained, however google exists and once you learn, you'll know that trial - the mechanics haven't changed.


And by the way (and this is serious advice): if someone's life is ruined because their build performs worse in a computer game, imo that person has maybe lost their aim a bit. Yes, it's not all for fun and competition is nice, but seriously... take a break and rethink why you play.

I should have taken off my shirt before reading this post, because the elitism in it burns so bright I have a farmer's tan now.

--

People who complain that "lower tier players 'always spam only LA'" are either not being honest or are so self-absorbed that they can't grasp that experiences they don't share are real. Either way, their opinions are invalid and should carry no weight.

There's plenty of playersin the 20-30K range who find that serves their playstyle just fine. They may not have their rotation down perfectly; they may not have the best gear; they may lack the dexterity to ever reach the top-tier; but they darn-well exist, and there's actually a lot of them.

There are ways to bring top-tier dps down without kicking the legs out from under weaker players, like more finely-targeted nerfs, soft or hard caps on synergies and DPS itself, etc. Those require more work than blanket nerfing of abilities, however.

But hey, what does it matter as long at top-tier players get a harder game? Why bother doing it the right way? Not like those who "people" have determined don't exist could possibly matter, right?



Oh yeah, and who said anything about ruined lives?

runkorkoeb17_ESO

MaleAmazon wrote: »

No, really.

- Neat new sets (that hopefully won't be nerfed to the ground by whiny testers like soldier of anguish was).

- 3-p sets now better meaning the unique 2-p sets will be used more.

- Mount can no longer sprint with no stamina but stamina was increased and drains more slowly so this makes perfect sense and is as it always should have been. Mounts sprinting forever with no stamina when they could not start sprinting with no stamina made no sense.

- Standardizing dots and aoes is fundamentally good. Numbers are debatable.

- Good group finder and queueing changes. No more BG penalty for bad teams, no more 'kicked out of dungeon before quest complete'.

- Generally seemingly good changes like dizzying swing.

-Werewolf bleed got a big nerf but blood moon is a lot better so I might hold on to my furry form a bit longer.

- They had the guts to decrease damage, thus reducing power creep. Yes, seeing someone bypassing Voriak Solkyn's upstairs phase was impressive. Yes, I think it shows dps has gone over the top.

Really, I am only a bit worried over some questionable changes like applying off-balance which might be too strong when combined with a heavy attack weave. Also dubious templar changes and entropy changes, etc.

Also the DoT / AoE nerfs do seem like overkill. But that can be adjusted. Say 1.5x instead of 1.25x.

Oh, and people who want to leave should just leave. Don't spam whine threads, don't destroy sets on your way out by calling for huge nerfs because you can't beat up large groups of newbies in Cyrodiil anymore.

I have been around since the start and tbh, despite many debatable changes, by large the game has gotten better and better. All classes are played, population is good, ui and qol have consistently gotten better. ESO has survived, many of us have adapted and overcome. I got my first vMA no-death no-sigil werewolf clear a few days ago. If you are tired of the game that is understandable and I respect it, but don't act like the game has gotten worse and worse because it has not.

Now we just need veteran questing mode.

to all.

I`m still sleepy but you are either sarcstic or troll...

WoppaBoem

Lol the whinging is plenty full, the 50% reduction is a start they need to do test, it will end up around the 1.5 / 1.75 mark.

Deathlord92

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

No, really.

- Neat new sets (that hopefully won't be nerfed to the ground by whiny testers like soldier of anguish was).

- 3-p sets now better meaning the unique 2-p sets will be used more.

- Mount can no longer sprint with no stamina but stamina was increased and drains more slowly so this makes perfect sense and is as it always should have been. Mounts sprinting forever with no stamina when they could not start sprinting with no stamina made no sense.

- Standardizing dots and aoes is fundamentally good. Numbers are debatable.

- Good group finder and queueing changes. No more BG penalty for bad teams, no more 'kicked out of dungeon before quest complete'.

- Generally seemingly good changes like dizzying swing.

-Werewolf bleed got a big nerf but blood moon is a lot better so I might hold on to my furry form a bit longer.

- They had the guts to decrease damage, thus reducing power creep. Yes, seeing someone bypassing Voriak Solkyn's upstairs phase was impressive. Yes, I think it shows dps has gone over the top.

Really, I am only a bit worried over some questionable changes like applying off-balance which might be too strong when combined with a heavy attack weave. Also dubious templar changes and entropy changes, etc.

Also the DoT / AoE nerfs do seem like overkill. But that can be adjusted. Say 1.5x instead of 1.25x.

Oh, and people who want to leave should just leave. Don't spam whine threads, don't destroy sets on your way out by calling for huge nerfs because you can't beat up large groups of newbies in Cyrodiil anymore.

I have been around since the start and tbh, despite many debatable changes, by large the game has gotten better and better. All classes are played, population is good, ui and qol have consistently gotten better. ESO has survived, many of us have adapted and overcome. I got my first vMA no-death no-sigil werewolf clear a few days ago. If you are tired of the game that is understandable and I respect it, but don't act like the game has gotten worse and worse because it has not.

Now we just need veteran questing mode.

to all.

I`m still sleepy but you are either sarcstic or troll...

My thoughts exactly lmao 😂

sivistojko

MaleAmazon wrote: »

- Mount can no longer sprint with no stamina but stamina was increased and drains more slowly so this makes perfect sense and is as it always should have been. Mounts sprinting forever with no stamina when they could not start sprinting with no stamina made no sense.

After they ran out of stamina, mounts continue to sprint at lower speed by using stamina that would be used for stamina recharge. Have you noticed that while mounts sprints without any stamina it doesn't recharge any stamina at all. That is why.

Kadoin

Sorry, I don't find my character losing power all the time in exchange for a few decent sets to be a fair trade off. I honestly thought the patch notes could have not been worse than the ones for live, but I guess I should have trusted my instincts.

daemonios

I still think this team are more solid than the previous one and have an idea of where they're going. That said, if the goal is to fight power creep, flat nerfs aren't going to cut it I think. A flat nerf means everyone's DPS is going down, not just at the top, but across the board. People with poor to mediocre DPS will also have lower DPS in the end.

The issue for me isn't that the maximum DPS achievable is too high, or it isn't JUST that. It's the huge gap between good and bad players, and what that entails. In PvE it means good groups are able to skip mechanics (something that could be fixed by redesigning fights so the mechanics can't be skipped, either by overpowering groups trying to burn the boss with adds/mechanics, or by granting bosses immunity at given stages), and in PvP it means good players wipe the floor with weaker ones (which may be great if you're the good player, but for the weaker one could just put you off PvP since the learning curve is so steep and you sometimes feel you aren't even able to react before you're dead on the ground).

These are my big questions: will ZOS address this gap, and if so, how?

MaleAmazon

There's plenty of playersin the 20-30K range who find that serves their playstyle just fine. They may not have their rotation down perfectly; they may not have the best gear; they may lack the dexterity to ever reach the top-tier; but they darn-well exist, and there's actually a lot of them.

There are ways to bring top-tier dps down without kicking the legs out from under weaker players, like more finely-targeted nerfs, soft or hard caps on synergies and DPS itself, etc. Those require more work than blanket nerfing of abilities, however.

Barring weird suggestions like hard-capping dps (which would make trial groups' heads explode), you are not going to nerf top dps without it affecting lower lvl players. Also like I said, I think the effect is overblown and won't make it to live with those numbers (in fact I am not convinced they did not deliberately go overboard so they could scale back):


Soldier of Anguish got nerfed before live. Sloads made it to live but was instantly nerfed. Shield cast time didn't make it to live, and shield changes didn't destroy sorcs. The whining has always been excessive and egregious changes generally don't last.

I am actually in no way elitist, I remember queueing as a tank and having to be told what a taunt was. I remember struggling on Gamyne Bandu since I didn't know what to do about the chainers at first. However these are things I needed to learn, not bypass with dps. People need to be able to learn mechanics by reading chat, which most probably are. The game is about more than a 'dps rotation'. If you cannot juggle DoTs then a light / heavy attack + spammable weave with something like relequen (which is easily obtained even via carry) is probably better anyway.

Or get undaunted/blood moon/relequen/savage werewolf and spam LA on a werewolf.


And again - there is also too much focus on dps. A mechanic should be obeyed, period. People basically seem to judge their characters only on dummy dps parses, which is ludicrous. This game has pretty deep combat, and a player who struggles would imo do better thinking about not standing in red aoe, not ignoring mechanics (which I admit are often vague but dps increase is a poor way to deal with it, instead ZOS could make things like death recaps clearer), not ignoring self heals, and getting a weave down.

But like I said, most of the patch are good changes and I don't think the bad ones will make it to Live.

D0PAMINE

Kadoin wrote: »

Sorry, I don't find my character losing power all the time in exchange for a few decent sets to be a fair trade off. I honestly thought the patch notes could have not been worse than the ones for live, but I guess I should have trusted my instincts.

Agreed.

Rukia541

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Nothing of the other changes matter if they killed the dps of every single class because a top few facerolled stuff. No one goes full 50% damage nerfs, dont think it ever happened in any game. The Devs just went full *** there

WoW did it during legion multiple times, it was a joke.

Also almost everything in WoW in pvp is nerfed 50%

brandonMFlee

Where are the new patch notes everyone is threading about? Last one I read was on scalebreaker and a broad idea of changes to come. Am I overlooking a thread?

daemonios

brandonMFlee wrote: »

Where are the new patch notes everyone is threading about? Last one I read was on scalebreaker and a broad idea of changes to come. Am I overlooking a thread?

It's in the PTS subforum.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493609/pts-patch-notes-v5-2-0#latest

Tommy_The_Gun

MaleAmazon wrote: »

-Werewolf bleed got a big nerf but blood moon is a lot better so I might hold on to my furry form a bit longer.

So if up to this time, if I played as WW in ESO and builded for it, but I dont have this one specific DLC, then I am screwed am I ?

Press any button Buy DLC to "continue" playing...

TirantLoBlanch

If the game is too easy fo some people the solution is easy and clear: create nex content to chalenge the elite. But create new content is expensive for Zenimax, so they spoil our time and our efforts, becuase nerfing is for free.

Nefi87

I don't understand why PVP designers decide the fate of the overall DPS and heals. This game is not PVP only. Most of us aim for PVE content as first choice. And we always get nerfed based on what's happening in PVP.

Is there no PVE designer group in ZOS who would just say "no, wait, let's consider the impact on triasl etc"?

I mean - look at the Wall of elements. That one is not even used in PVP. It got nerfed pretty bad last patch as well. And now it's total trash. 800 dmg per second? Is that a joke? So all of us who was chasing the maelstorm inferno staff like crazy can throw it in a trash bin now

MirkoZ

MaleAmazon wrote: »

No, really.

- Neat new sets (that hopefully won't be nerfed to the ground by whiny testers like soldier of anguish was).

- 3-p sets now better meaning the unique 2-p sets will be used more.

- Mount can no longer sprint with no stamina but stamina was increased and drains more slowly so this makes perfect sense and is as it always should have been. Mounts sprinting forever with no stamina when they could not start sprinting with no stamina made no sense.

- Standardizing dots and aoes is fundamentally good. Numbers are debatable.

- Good group finder and queueing changes. No more BG penalty for bad teams, no more 'kicked out of dungeon before quest complete'.

- Generally seemingly good changes like dizzying swing.

-Werewolf bleed got a big nerf but blood moon is a lot better so I might hold on to my furry form a bit longer.

- They had the guts to decrease damage, thus reducing power creep. Yes, seeing someone bypassing Voriak Solkyn's upstairs phase was impressive. Yes, I think it shows dps has gone over the top.

Really, I am only a bit worried over some questionable changes like applying off-balance which might be too strong when combined with a heavy attack weave. Also dubious templar changes and entropy changes, etc.

Also the DoT / AoE nerfs do seem like overkill. But that can be adjusted. Say 1.5x instead of 1.25x.

Oh, and people who want to leave should just leave. Don't spam whine threads, don't destroy sets on your way out by calling for huge nerfs because you can't beat up large groups of newbies in Cyrodiil anymore.

I have been around since the start and tbh, despite many debatable changes, by large the game has gotten better and better. All classes are played, population is good, ui and qol have consistently gotten better. ESO has survived, many of us have adapted and overcome. I got my first vMA no-death no-sigil werewolf clear a few days ago. If you are tired of the game that is understandable and I respect it, but don't act like the game has gotten worse and worse because it has not.

Now we just need veteran questing mode.

to all.

Thanks for the laugh

sonwon.1_ESO

I wish I had an ESO subscription so I could cancel it!!!