The ESO community is kind, patient and welcoming.

BlissfulDelusions

ErinM31 wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

@BlissfulDelusions Actually, I think that the community as a whole is quite friendly and helpful. It does seem a bit harsh to kick for that but others posting here to have a very valid point that it was inconsiderate of you to queue for something you were not prepared for. Personally, I don’t think it was worth posting about. You’ll be ready next time, yes?

@ErinM31 If you'll read my previous posts, you'll see exactly why I wasn't prepared for that particular dungeon.

In this thread? I looked back and couldn’t find anything. Oh, I see in your later posts... I’m a bit confused but I’ve never done these myself and was responding purely on the principle of the thing.

If most people are ready to start when they queue, then it still seems less considerate to queue without being prepared (or in this case, most likely to be unprepared?). If it doesn’t take long to grab this, then it shouldn’t have been a big deal to wait since you have them a heads up and kicking does seem harsh, but not so bad as to post about. Just from my perspective, from PUGging in other games, seems they were less considerate than what I would hope would be normal (assuming grabbing what you needed is a quick thing) but not worth more than a moments frustration on your part and perhaps being glad to not run with impatient people and still not crossing the line to outright wrong behavior, IMHO.

The post in which I outlined what happened, #8, is the one I was referring to. But the quoting was screwed up, so it appears as if @lordrichter was the one saying it.

And trust me, I have had plenty of bad experiences both in PvE, and PvP. This is actually my first time making a thread about toxicity in pugs. You're welcome to check my post history to verify that (since I rarely post here, anyways).

Like I said before, I understand that having today's pledges would help you be prepared for the situation in which you queue for a random and get today's pledge as your dungeon, but keeping last night's pledges helps you avoid getting yesterday's pledges after you've dropped them. Besides, I always idle in the Undaunted camp when I queue, to not waste anyone's time more than I have to, if it happens that I get the day's pledges. I just don't think a two minute wait at the most is something to kick over, when I myself have had people in dungeons ask for a quick break for whatever reason plenty of time, and rarely voiced any complaint over it (and only then when I had a scroll running and they were taking an unusually long time).

The point of this thread is, I think PvEers especially could do more to be understanding, calm, patient and constructive. Granted, that point might have flown over the heads of many, given the facetious way the thread was started with the ironic use of a positive title contrasting a picture showing players not being that way.

I do my best to be patient with pugs all the time, helping explain mechanics, letting them take quick breaks and so forth. Why is it acceptable that a player be kicked for spending a few minutes grabbing a refreshed pledge?

BlissfulDelusions

redspecter23 wrote: »

Did they say why they kicked you? The assumption is that your previous line of dialogue was the reasoning (as you really have no other info).

Maybe they thought you were a fake tank/dps/healer somehow. Maybe they don't like cats? Perhaps you were on a pet sorc and they booted on principle. It's not necessarily any nicer to kick for those reasons, but I suppose they may have had some other reason and it just so happened that the vote passed after your line about pledges.

I was on my Imperial DK tank with 38kish health. Nothing was said, since there's no message between what I said and the kick message (unless they spoke in /say, which I wouldn't have seen unless I was right next to them).

I wanna chalk it up to impatience on their part, which I can understand, if they had an XP scroll running, or needed to be done quickly, but they inadvertently wasted more of their own time by having to queue for and then wait for another tank to show up.

Elsonso

TheValkyn wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

They kicked you for being unprepared for dailies? Why should they wait on you?

Mainly to be nice... Sort of the point of the thread this person started. Right?

Wouldn't queuing up and not forcing people to wait on you be the "nice" thing to do? It seems that the person that queued up unprepared is 100% at fault here.

So, if I may paraphrase... what you are saying is that if someone perceives that the other is not being "nice" because, in their eyes, they were not ready, it is perfectly fine to not be nice back to them. Yeah. That's a model community member right there. 10 out of 10.


Nice has to start somewhere. Didn't happen here.

Araneae6537

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

@BlissfulDelusions Actually, I think that the community as a whole is quite friendly and helpful. It does seem a bit harsh to kick for that but others posting here to have a very valid point that it was inconsiderate of you to queue for something you were not prepared for. Personally, I don’t think it was worth posting about. You’ll be ready next time, yes?

@ErinM31 If you'll read my previous posts, you'll see exactly why I wasn't prepared for that particular dungeon.

In this thread? I looked back and couldn’t find anything. Oh, I see in your later posts... I’m a bit confused but I’ve never done these myself and was responding purely on the principle of the thing.

If most people are ready to start when they queue, then it still seems less considerate to queue without being prepared (or in this case, most likely to be unprepared?). If it doesn’t take long to grab this, then it shouldn’t have been a big deal to wait since you have them a heads up and kicking does seem harsh, but not so bad as to post about. Just from my perspective, from PUGging in other games, seems they were less considerate than what I would hope would be normal (assuming grabbing what you needed is a quick thing) but not worth more than a moments frustration on your part and perhaps being glad to not run with impatient people and still not crossing the line to outright wrong behavior, IMHO.

The post in which I outlined what happened, #8, is the one I was referring to. But the quoting was screwed up, so it appears as if @lordrichter was the one saying it.

And trust me, I have had plenty of bad experiences both in PvE, and PvP. This is actually my first time making a thread about toxicity in pugs. You're welcome to check my post history to verify that (since I rarely post here, anyways).

Like I said before, I understand that having today's pledges would help you be prepared for the situation in which you queue for a random and get today's pledge as your dungeon, but keeping last night's pledges helps you avoid getting yesterday's pledges after you've dropped them. Besides, I always idle in the Undaunted camp when I queue, to not waste anyone's time more than I have to, if it happens that I get the day's pledges. I just don't think a two minute wait at the most is something to kick over, when I myself have had people in dungeons ask for a quick break for whatever reason plenty of time, and rarely voiced any complaint over it (and only then when I had a scroll running and they were taking an unusually long time).

The point of this thread is, I think PvEers especially could do more to be understanding, calm, patient and constructive. Granted, that point might have flown over the heads of many, given the facetious way the thread was started with the ironic use of a positive title contrasting a picture showing players not being that way.

I do my best to be patient with pugs all the time, helping explain mechanics, letting them take quick breaks and so forth. Why is it acceptable that a player be kicked for spending a few minutes grabbing a refreshed pledge?

True. And it is common courtesy to wait a few minutes for RL stuff, reconnects after dc’s, etc. It does seem harsh and not even logical since, as you pointed out, they would have to wait through another queue.

And yes, tbh, the opening of your thread, followed by some of the initial responses did give me a certain impression which I reacted against. IMHO, if there is a trend of rudeness or other negative behavior, making a thread about that without any hyperbolic tone or implication might better get your point across rather than getting either pitchforks or defensive reactions.

Cadbury

Meh. Personally I wouldn't have kicked you...

Slightly off-topic, but this current little "turf war" between PvEers and PvPers is rapidly reaching meme levels. I imagine some of the devs are amused as the playerbase eats itself alive.

It's no surprise that other MMO communities look at ESO's community with scorn...

Araneae6537

Cadbury wrote: »

Meh. Personally I wouldn't have kicked you...

Slightly off-topic, but this current little "turf war" between PvEers and PvPers is rapidly reaching meme levels. I imagine some of the devs are amused as the playerbase eats itself alive.

It's no surprise that other MMO communities look at ESO's community with scorn...

Meh, there’s a degree of that in every MMORPG; certainly there is in GW2. I think it develops from a perception — correct or not — that changes are made for one playstyle to the detriment of the other.

Cadbury

ErinM31 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Meh. Personally I wouldn't have kicked you...

Slightly off-topic, but this current little "turf war" between PvEers and PvPers is rapidly reaching meme levels. I imagine some of the devs are amused as the playerbase eats itself alive.

It's no surprise that other MMO communities look at ESO's community with scorn...

Meh, there’s a degree of that in every MMORPG; certainly there is in GW2. I think it develops from a perception — correct or not — that changes are made for one playstyle to the detriment of the other.

Oh, I agree. You get PvErers blaming PvPers for class changes and vice versa.
A nice mixture of faux outrage, hyperbole, and "fake news".

And I wouldn't have it any other way

Ackwalan

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

DLM wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

@BlissfulDelusions Actually, I think that the community as a whole is quite friendly and helpful. It does seem a bit harsh to kick for that but others posting here to have a very valid point that it was inconsiderate of you to queue for something you were not prepared for. Personally, I don’t think it was worth posting about. You’ll be ready next time, yes?

@ErinM31 If you'll read my previous posts, you'll see exactly why I wasn't prepared for that particular dungeon.

So your excuse is that you queued up for random thinking that if you were ending in yesterday's pledges, all the better. It turned out it was today's pledges. So we're back to what we are all saying, you came unprepared for the pledges of this day. And on top of that, instead of accepting that you rolled (hoping to get past day's pledges), lost and move on, you asked people to wait for you. I kind of miss where this is considerate from you...

I wouldn't have kicked for this either, but it really gets on my nerves every time someone starts a PUG with "sorry, grabbing the pledge".

No, I queued up for a random with my old pledges active in the case that I might get them. When it turned out I had the wrong pledge, I gave a headsup to them to make sure they were aware I was going to grab the pledge, instead of leaving them in the dark with silence.

In turn, they opted to kick me, wasting both my time and theirs, as they had to then requeue and wait for another tank to show up, while I had to wait 15 minutes for the cooldown to wear off.

Face it, mate, most other players, had they queued for a random and gotten the pledge, would have asked for a few minutes to grab it. I understand how you, others, and even yours truly might find it mildly infuriating, but does it warrant a KICK?

No, you said it yourself that it doesn't.

There is no timer penalty when kicked. Did you accidently leave the group?

TheValkyn

lordrichter wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

They kicked you for being unprepared for dailies? Why should they wait on you?

Mainly to be nice... Sort of the point of the thread this person started. Right?

Wouldn't queuing up and not forcing people to wait on you be the "nice" thing to do? It seems that the person that queued up unprepared is 100% at fault here.

So, if I may paraphrase... what you are saying is that if someone perceives that the other is not being "nice" because, in their eyes, they were not ready, it is perfectly fine to not be nice back to them. Yeah. That's a model community member right there. 10 out of 10.


Nice has to start somewhere. Didn't happen here.

@lordrichter You're right. Nice has to start somewhere. He should have been nice and prepared before he queued.

Yeah. That's a logical community member right there. 10 out of 10.

We are talking about forgiveness at this point. Your neighbor comes over and takes a *** on your porch. It wasn't nice but would you forgive him and let it slide? I mean - it's only going to take you 20 seconds to clean it up.

Nice starts with being prepared and not queueing for instances where you're going to put out other people.

SidraWillowsky

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

That quoting format got royally fudged up.

I'd have waited and I think they were definitely swift to kick, but I always, always grab the current pledges or quests before queuing into anything like this to avoid what happened to you. I'm a DD so my queues are long in all cases EXCEPT when I queue into a random without having picked up a pledge. When I do that the queue seems to invariably pop immediately, leaving me no time to get pledges.

Also, IDK what you said before the text in the screen grab, but if that's how you opened I'd suggest saying hi first ask then asking if they mind if you grab the pledge since you just realized that you forgot, or something like that. Asking nicely goes a long, long way, I think

Reiterating again, however, that I wouldn't have blinked at your comment personally. It's like 2 minutes and I wouldn't have even considered being annoyed, let alone kick you.

Elsonso

TheValkyn wrote: »

@lordrichter You're right. Nice has to start somewhere. He should have been nice and prepared before he queued.

Yeah. That's a logical community member right there. 10 out of 10.

We are talking about forgiveness at this point. Your neighbor comes over and takes a *** on your porch. It wasn't nice but would you forgive him and let it slide? I mean - it's only going to take you 20 seconds to clean it up.

Nice starts with being prepared and not queueing for instances where you're going to put out other people.

Nice starts with not being a jerk. If that party kicked him for not having the Undaunted quest because the OP queued for a random dungeon and pulled Undaunted, then they were jerks. They don't even have a defense, other than the lame "well, he started it".

beadabow

If a group kicks you before things get started, don't get upset. Be glad! They aren't the players you want to hang with. There are so many nice, fun, happy beautiful people to play with in this game. Eventually people that you can enjoy playing with will come your way. The ones that kicked you never understood that aspect of the game, and probably never will.

WeerW3ir

if they kick you. kick them back

Jaimeh

Maybe the kicked you for a different reason rather than the pledge collection, they could have had a friend joining in, etc. It was still not cool, but just saying it could have been something else. There's bad behaviours all around, however the ESO community is great for the most part, don't let that encounter discourage you from participating.

Dusk_Coven

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

In turn, they opted to kick me, wasting both my time and theirs, as they had to then requeue and wait for another tank to show up, while I had to wait 15 minutes for the cooldown to wear off.

Depending on the dungeon and the group they might not need anything other than dps and could clear it in less than 15 minutes.
But IF your wanting to get the pledge is the issue, that still doesn't really warrant a kick. They could have just proceeded and you could have ported to grab the pledge in the hopes of getting back before they kill the first pledge boss.

Eirinin

It has some to do with ones threshold for rejection and how much gets into your core. What they did, in kicking you, can be really a visceral painful sensation to some people. Like a punch straight to the sternum, icy and heavy and hurtful. It can almost have a physical sensation. And then there are folks that don't feel that level of impact even when their significant other dumps them.

It comes down to how easily a trespass can reach your tender feelings as well as the idea of 'I would not do this to them, why then did they do this bad thing to me?'.

Both of those are spectrums. Some of us have think skin but a keen sense of being taken advantage of. Others bruise like a peach but forgive disparity between their devotion and the reciprocity of their friends and lovers.

All that makes coming to a group (like a website) hard because we all 'know' our places in these emotional and protective spectrums are of course, the best and correct places.

Which is a long winded way to say, OP, that my heart ached for you reading this thread because it seems like your heart was bruised and I wanted to give you a hug and hope your day was improving.

VaranisArano

This thread has more legs than I expected, for a post that's basically

"The ESO community is kind, patient, and welcoming except for those 3 jerks who kicked me!"

StormeReigns

From personal experience:
Eso's worst of the worst is far kinder and nicer than the nicest person on LoL.

Eso's Worst of the Worst is more supporting and patient than WoW's most outgoing and helpful.

Eso's Worst of the worst is more pleasing and caring than all on GW2

ESO's community, is filled with people of all walks of life and personalities. Many clash, most get a long, and find more solutions versus the rare kick and moving on. More similar, to FFXIV, not exactly like it, but holds a lot of similarities in the pros versus the cons.

Araneae6537

SkerKro wrote: »

Feom personal experience:
Eso's worst of the worst is far kinder and nicer than the nicest person on LoL.

Eso's Worst of the Worst is more supporting and patient than WoW's most outgoing and helpful.

Eso's Worst of the worst is more pleasing and caring than all on GW2

ESO's community, is filled with people of all walks of life and personalities. Many clash, most get a long, and find more solutions versus the rare kick and moving on. More similar, to FFXIV, not exactly like it, but holds a lot of similarities in the pros versus the cons.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience on GW2! There are jerks and trolls everywhere to be sure but I have often been pleasantly surprised by people going out of their way to help a stranger find an object, complete a quest or even teach a newb mechanics.

Aurie

So glad I play solo.

Darkenarlol

OP this kind of behavior is ok with friends, not with strangers

so if you want someone to be nice to you you should be nice to them too

making whole party wait for you because you don't care or whatever is not nice at all

DLM

Ackwalan wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

DLM wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

@BlissfulDelusions Actually, I think that the community as a whole is quite friendly and helpful. It does seem a bit harsh to kick for that but others posting here to have a very valid point that it was inconsiderate of you to queue for something you were not prepared for. Personally, I don’t think it was worth posting about. You’ll be ready next time, yes?

@ErinM31 If you'll read my previous posts, you'll see exactly why I wasn't prepared for that particular dungeon.

So your excuse is that you queued up for random thinking that if you were ending in yesterday's pledges, all the better. It turned out it was today's pledges. So we're back to what we are all saying, you came unprepared for the pledges of this day. And on top of that, instead of accepting that you rolled (hoping to get past day's pledges), lost and move on, you asked people to wait for you. I kind of miss where this is considerate from you...

I wouldn't have kicked for this either, but it really gets on my nerves every time someone starts a PUG with "sorry, grabbing the pledge".

No, I queued up for a random with my old pledges active in the case that I might get them. When it turned out I had the wrong pledge, I gave a headsup to them to make sure they were aware I was going to grab the pledge, instead of leaving them in the dark with silence.

In turn, they opted to kick me, wasting both my time and theirs, as they had to then requeue and wait for another tank to show up, while I had to wait 15 minutes for the cooldown to wear off.

Face it, mate, most other players, had they queued for a random and gotten the pledge, would have asked for a few minutes to grab it. I understand how you, others, and even yours truly might find it mildly infuriating, but does it warrant a KICK?

No, you said it yourself that it doesn't.

There is no timer penalty when kicked. Did you accidently leave the group?

If you are outside the dungeon when the kick happens (and he probably was to grab the pledge) you get the penalty.

jircris11

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

>roleplayer
>completely unprepared
You had it coming

And why would a roleplayer be unprepared. ANYONE can be unprepared. Hell most the time its pvpers who make my group wait.

Morgul667

There are nice and mean people everywhere

Also im pretty sure this would have happened on any game

MojaveHeld

Unless it's with a preformed group that's cool with it, exiting a dungeon to go grab a pledge is considered extremely bad manners in this game. I don't think your group was the problem here, you were, for automatically expecting them to be cool with you leaving the dungeon and coming back just to grab a pledge. That's a huge no-no for a pug group.

ArchangelIsraphel

Eirinin wrote: »

It has some to do with ones threshold for rejection and how much gets into your core. What they did, in kicking you, can be really a visceral painful sensation to some people. Like a punch straight to the sternum, icy and heavy and hurtful. It can almost have a physical sensation. And then there are folks that don't feel that level of impact even when their significant other dumps them.

It comes down to how easily a trespass can reach your tender feelings as well as the idea of 'I would not do this to them, why then did they do this bad thing to me?'.

Both of those are spectrums. Some of us have think skin but a keen sense of being taken advantage of. Others bruise like a peach but forgive disparity between their devotion and the reciprocity of their friends and lovers.

All that makes coming to a group (like a website) hard because we all 'know' our places in these emotional and protective spectrums are of course, the best and correct places.

Which is a long winded way to say, OP, that my heart ached for you reading this thread because it seems like your heart was bruised and I wanted to give you a hug and hope your day was improving.

@Eirinin Thank you for posting this. I hope the OP returns to see it. I felt exactly the same way when I saw the OP's post, but you've put it into better words than I. It does my heart good to see someone showing another human compassion and expressing a much deeper understanding of how the mind works than usually gets seen on a gaming forum.

OP, I hope you found a better group. For the life of me, I don't understand why some people can't simply give another person two seconds of their time and a bit of understanding. I really wonder why they think it costs them so much to show a little bit of tolerance for a mistake that wasn't even that bad.

StabbityDoom

Welp, the housing community is.

GallantGuardian

That was kinda crappy but imma be honest with you I used to play dcuo (the only other mmo I’ve ever played) and eso is way more friendly by comparison ... maybe I’m just used to a way more toxic community then eso but for the most part people are usually understanding and will help if you give a heads up

BlissfulDelusions

Ackwalan wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

DLM wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

@BlissfulDelusions Actually, I think that the community as a whole is quite friendly and helpful. It does seem a bit harsh to kick for that but others posting here to have a very valid point that it was inconsiderate of you to queue for something you were not prepared for. Personally, I don’t think it was worth posting about. You’ll be ready next time, yes?

@ErinM31 If you'll read my previous posts, you'll see exactly why I wasn't prepared for that particular dungeon.

So your excuse is that you queued up for random thinking that if you were ending in yesterday's pledges, all the better. It turned out it was today's pledges. So we're back to what we are all saying, you came unprepared for the pledges of this day. And on top of that, instead of accepting that you rolled (hoping to get past day's pledges), lost and move on, you asked people to wait for you. I kind of miss where this is considerate from you...

I wouldn't have kicked for this either, but it really gets on my nerves every time someone starts a PUG with "sorry, grabbing the pledge".

No, I queued up for a random with my old pledges active in the case that I might get them. When it turned out I had the wrong pledge, I gave a headsup to them to make sure they were aware I was going to grab the pledge, instead of leaving them in the dark with silence.

In turn, they opted to kick me, wasting both my time and theirs, as they had to then requeue and wait for another tank to show up, while I had to wait 15 minutes for the cooldown to wear off.

Face it, mate, most other players, had they queued for a random and gotten the pledge, would have asked for a few minutes to grab it. I understand how you, others, and even yours truly might find it mildly infuriating, but does it warrant a KICK?

No, you said it yourself that it doesn't.

There is no timer penalty when kicked. Did you accidently leave the group?

I think it depends on how soon you leave or get kicked. In this case I was kicked and had a timer, which is atypical, but it is what it is.

BlissfulDelusions

ErinM31 wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

@BlissfulDelusions Actually, I think that the community as a whole is quite friendly and helpful. It does seem a bit harsh to kick for that but others posting here to have a very valid point that it was inconsiderate of you to queue for something you were not prepared for. Personally, I don’t think it was worth posting about. You’ll be ready next time, yes?

@ErinM31 If you'll read my previous posts, you'll see exactly why I wasn't prepared for that particular dungeon.

In this thread? I looked back and couldn’t find anything. Oh, I see in your later posts... I’m a bit confused but I’ve never done these myself and was responding purely on the principle of the thing.

If most people are ready to start when they queue, then it still seems less considerate to queue without being prepared (or in this case, most likely to be unprepared?). If it doesn’t take long to grab this, then it shouldn’t have been a big deal to wait since you have them a heads up and kicking does seem harsh, but not so bad as to post about. Just from my perspective, from PUGging in other games, seems they were less considerate than what I would hope would be normal (assuming grabbing what you needed is a quick thing) but not worth more than a moments frustration on your part and perhaps being glad to not run with impatient people and still not crossing the line to outright wrong behavior, IMHO.

The post in which I outlined what happened, #8, is the one I was referring to. But the quoting was screwed up, so it appears as if @lordrichter was the one saying it.

And trust me, I have had plenty of bad experiences both in PvE, and PvP. This is actually my first time making a thread about toxicity in pugs. You're welcome to check my post history to verify that (since I rarely post here, anyways).

Like I said before, I understand that having today's pledges would help you be prepared for the situation in which you queue for a random and get today's pledge as your dungeon, but keeping last night's pledges helps you avoid getting yesterday's pledges after you've dropped them. Besides, I always idle in the Undaunted camp when I queue, to not waste anyone's time more than I have to, if it happens that I get the day's pledges. I just don't think a two minute wait at the most is something to kick over, when I myself have had people in dungeons ask for a quick break for whatever reason plenty of time, and rarely voiced any complaint over it (and only then when I had a scroll running and they were taking an unusually long time).

The point of this thread is, I think PvEers especially could do more to be understanding, calm, patient and constructive. Granted, that point might have flown over the heads of many, given the facetious way the thread was started with the ironic use of a positive title contrasting a picture showing players not being that way.

I do my best to be patient with pugs all the time, helping explain mechanics, letting them take quick breaks and so forth. Why is it acceptable that a player be kicked for spending a few minutes grabbing a refreshed pledge?

True. And it is common courtesy to wait a few minutes for RL stuff, reconnects after dc’s, etc. It does seem harsh and not even logical since, as you pointed out, they would have to wait through another queue.

And yes, tbh, the opening of your thread, followed by some of the initial responses did give me a certain impression which I reacted against. IMHO, if there is a trend of rudeness or other negative behavior, making a thread about that without any hyperbolic tone or implication might better get your point across rather than getting either pitchforks or defensive reactions.

I agree with that, yeah. Pardon me, I have a tendency to use sarcasm and irony to try to get my point across, which doesn't sit well with everyone.