Another Idiotic Event - Forcing PvP is Horrid!

jcm2606

Eirinin wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Hmmm. I don’t PvP, I solo PvE pretty much exclusively, but I have to agree with PvP players here. They get a very small slice of the game as a whole, and ZOS has to have some way to encourage new players to try PvP who normally would not, hence the event rewards.

I have to say also, is getting ganked really so bad if it lets you get what you need in the end? Just let the epeen players get their kicks while you get what you need, then move on to playing parts of the game you do enjoy.

I'm not outright disagreeing, but I feel like I'm having a different experience in some ways than you are. This event comes across a bit like the folks at ZOS, sighing over continued pvp complaints of "dying population numbers", thought, hey let's toss a bunch of pve players in a war zone to satisfy the pvp slaughter urges, and we can offer the pvers a canopy bed and a mount to be pwned for a week or two. Does that make any sense? I'm not always the best at explaining myself.

Except this event has been a thing for years, ever since the first year anniversary of IC's release, and the PvP community was much better off back then than now. Unless Zenimax somehow had a crystal ball to predict the game's future, I don't think they planned this event with the intention of feeding PvE players to inflate the PvP pop.

There's also the fact that Zenimax has offered PvE players their own way of participating, in that the dungeons will also give tickets. If you really don't like PvP, the two group dungeons will give you the drops you're after.

The_Lex wrote: »

IC event and berry picking aside, I guess I don't understand why the PvE-only crowd is so scared of dying. It's like a phobia. It's through the deaths that you learn to get better. Look at your death recap... See any patterns? Adapt to what's killing you the most. Everyone new to PvP dies....a lot. But that's how you get better.

They're not afraid of dying to a scripted boss fight, but need therapy for dying to a player.

I'd imagine the reasoning is different for each person you talk to. Some prefer the slower and longer fights PvE generally have over the faster and shorter fights PvP has (faster and shorter fights make it harder to learn what you did wrong, especially when the game intentionally makes fun of you in the recap -- "have you tried PvE?"). Some might just really hate dying to other players, because they feel it's "toxic". Different strokes, I guess.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I replied a bit at the start, but intentionally ignored it for a while, yet you couldn't stop. Shows something about everyone else too!

Well, this is a public forum, not a private discussion. Just because you stop posting, doesn't mean the conversation ends. The conversation ends when it ends naturally, ie people lose interest, or the thread gets locked/deleted.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Running a tutorial in Cyrodil doesn't help people figure any of this out, which is a major flaw in many games pushing PvP into PvE aspects, or even PvP in general.

I get that, I really do. I think this game does a garbage job at teaching players how to actually play beyond the basic "smash left click, dodge or block this super telegraphed skill, bash this skill, heavy attack after bash to stun".

Knowing how to play beyond the basics goes a long way in everything, but it especially goes a long way in PvP, where fights are so short and so dense with actions.

If it were up to me, I'd rework the first 15 or so levels to better teach players how to play, and I'd add a combat instructor to most towns where players can spar with a slightly easier NPC to learn the game in their own time.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I am unlikely to ever get good enough to really beat others, but some help and pairing with others of similar skill would be much more effective than the top PvPers whining in their own way.

You didn't come in here asking for help, though. You came in here complaining that you were "forced" to PvP to participate in the event, seemingly with no interest in actually participating. Yes, you did miss the part where you could run the two dungeons for tickets, but nevertheless, you were still complaining that you were "forced" to PvP. You can't blame top PvP'rs for coming in and reacting the way they did, when you started the thread with that.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Once the post is out, not much to do about it. I could edit the OP, but those were my words and thoughts at the time. They were a bit strong due to the experience, but that is life. I am sure no one else here complains about things, ever.[

So, you have two options. You can edit the OP, and post a comment saying that you were wrong, you made a mistake, and just accept whatever happens from that point on, maybe ignoring the rest of the thread. Or, you can just ignore the thread entirely, let it takes its course, and let it end naturally. Seems like you've chosen the former, so not much you can do except just ignore the rest of the thread if you don't want to deal with it.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

(Complaining about complainers is still complaining, though I am convinced some participate here just to do that.)[

It wouldn't surprise me if some people here are complaining for the sake of complaining, but most people are just tired of PvP constantly getting flak. PvP has been the scapegoat of the community for years, now, with every little thing being blamed on it.

PvE balance getting hit, despite balance being genuinely out of whack? Damn PvP'rs, stop whining and causing *** to get nerfed constantly!

Any slightly negative opinions on the state of the game? Damn PvP'rs, why don't you guys quit if you hate the game so much, I'm not having any issues questing in the overland!

daemondamian

Forcing pvp is horrid which is why I'm grateful you can do the two Imperial City dungeons instead especially as I'm using my templar healer to farm Scathing & Leeching set pieces.

Dusk_Coven

This event is better than Midyear Madness where everyone had to be done in an open PvP zone to get tickets. You have the option to run dungeons for your tickets.

If Midyear Madness had that option it'd be much better and there'd be less griping from the PvE-ers.
There was another thread somewhere that suggested crafting siege engines for AP. Maybe PvE people could get a furnishing plan for siege engines and craft a couple for their tickets during Midyear Madness. You'd still need to go into Cyrodiil for the various achievements, but if someone hated PvP that much they probably wouldn't be interested in those unless they found a way to get them easily, such as win trading.

Reverb

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So yeah, I was frustrated. And I had not seen the part where you could run the dungeons for the tickets. I am sure none of you have ever missed a key point in one of their announcements either. I am so glad for so many of you here that are so perfect you just can't stand it.

Sure sure, that would be understandable that you had missed the part about the dungeons. Except, except...that’s literally the first thing listed for “how to get event tickets”. The actual post reads

ACQUIRE EVENT TICKETS
During the Imperial City Celebration Event, you can earn new Event Tickets by completing the following activities:

Defeating the final boss of either the Imperial City Prison dungeon or White-Gold Tower dungeon

OR

Slaying a patrolling monster in the Imperial City streets or mini-boss within the Imperial City sewers.

It’s not like you missed some buried detail and got worked up about your own misunderstanding. You skipped over the very first thing. And you aren’t alone, there are plenty of posters making assumptions and jumping to conclusions and then getting really pissed off about it when the correct info is readily available.

Cadbury

SkerKro wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

I know, they are sick,

What is more sick (sicker, sickening)? Utilizing the event and features to their fullest, or taking an absolute minor inconvenience to the most exstreme measures that one has to compare it to criminal acts and horrific war crimes to find any bit of closure?

This happens in real life all the time, so seeing the same behavior in a video game discussion isn't surprising.

Socially speaking, death in general is often a delicate subject, so I personally find it fascinating how people react to death in a virtual environment like a FPS or an MMO. I've witnessed people (not in ESO. Yet.) who would cry if their character was killed in both PvP and PvE events. I've had death threats and racial slurs tossed at me just because I killed their player.

There is probably some good social and psychological discussion that can be made, but I am not the one to open that Pandora's Box.

Tigerseye

ZonasArch wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Diarf wrote: »

This. First day and here we go. Forum post.
!

Dont blame them.
Probably vaseline store was closed ...

This says more about you than the OP.

Just read what this dude/tte says in every post. Even when s/he's saying something reasonable, s/he's still a jerk about it.

Oh well... *Puts on gas mask* gotta resist the toxicity.

Yeah, he's talking about Vaseline in regards to PVP and I'm the problem here, lol.

Troll on...

Morgha_Kul

DrSweetazz wrote: »

Your tears fuel us

And this attitude right here is why so many people don't pvp. Infantilization plus disrespect plus lack of sportsmanship equals empty pvp zones.

Tigerseye

Eirinin wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Hmmm. I don’t PvP, I solo PvE pretty much exclusively, but I have to agree with PvP players here. They get a very small slice of the game as a whole, and ZOS has to have some way to encourage new players to try PvP who normally would not, hence the event rewards.

I have to say also, is getting ganked really so bad if it lets you get what you need in the end? Just let the epeen players get their kicks while you get what you need, then move on to playing parts of the game you do enjoy.

I'm not outright disagreeing, but I feel like I'm having a different experience in some ways than you are. This event comes across a bit like the folks at ZOS, sighing over continued pvp complaints of "dying population numbers", thought, hey let's toss a bunch of pve players in a war zone to satisfy the pvp slaughter urges, and we can offer the pvers a canopy bed and a mount to be pwned for a week or two. Does that make any sense? I'm not always the best at explaining myself.

I agree.

They need to look at what is really killing numbers.

I did WvW, almost exclusively, in GW2, until I started crashing every time there was a large battle, but I wouldn't even begin to do it here.

Between my BT broadband speed, inexplicably, becoming consistently "slow", or "typical", when it used to be consistently "fast" and the fact that I crash in openworld content, far too frequently (even when my broadband speed is OK), I would be a fool to even venture in there.

...and that is before I even get started on the obvious and severe balancing issues this game has.

The whole thing is a recipe for disaster.

RodneyRegis

I just don't get these whinge threads. Who cares if you get ganked if you're not bothered about the telvar? Just go into any district, wait up top until the boys spawns, go down, kill it with 50 other players, get ganked, leave.

RodneyRegis

max_only wrote: »

You can do WGT or ICP on normal. Personally I think ICP is faster and easier to explain. If you do it quickly enough the mechanics don’t matter until the last fight.

They don't matter there on normal.

Tigerseye

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

DrSweetazz wrote: »

Your tears fuel us

And this attitude right here is why so many people don't pvp. Infantilization plus disrespect plus lack of sportsmanship equals empty pvp zones.

Yeah and that is another reason, of course.

I'm pretty used to it and I really dont care what these dweebs think (especially having heard some of their squeaky little pubescent voices, on voice comms in GW2, lol), so it rolls off my back at this point, but it is abysmal.

Cadbury

Tigerseye wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

DrSweetazz wrote: »

Your tears fuel us

And this attitude right here is why so many people don't pvp. Infantilization plus disrespect plus lack of sportsmanship equals empty pvp zones.

Yeah and that is another reason, of course.

I'm pretty used to it and I really dont care what these dweebs think (especially having heard some of their squeaky little pubescent voices, on voice comms in GW2, lol), so it rolls off my back at this point, but it is abysmal.

Sounds like alot of the same voices I'd hear way back in my old Xbox Live days.Tough talking kids who'd proudly proclaim "I'm in the Army!" or "I work for the Mafia!". Hilarious

kinguardian

I get your irritation because for a lot it is easy pickings and if you just want to hop in and out it is frustrating. I wish we could have like a white flag above us" don't kill me I am not here to kill you just passing trough"

I get how pvp works and yes there are mostly pve events but at least in a pve event the other players are not hunting you and as a pvp player it is easier to beat the enemies.

Uryel

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Not sure what I was bashing, but fine.

You were bashing PvP. This isn't an acceptable behaviour here. Exemple : the 100+ thread pages about Bosmer stealth was going fine until I mentionned that a solution to all the nerfs and especially stealth removal was to remove PvP entirely. Probably has to do with the lead combat designer being a PvP fan himself.

Anyway, yes, this event is the worst to date. And that's saying something considering that so far we have had to steal a pig, do PvE quests in the only PvP zone, or repeat the same delve quests ad nauseam.

But now, we can repeat the same long arse dungeon ad nauseam, which is basically the same mechanics as repeating delves, but much longer, and thus way more annoying ; or wander in a PvP zone that has only tight corridors and small hallways, making it pretty much impossible to sneak to your objective. And of course, the usual jerks will profit from the event by farming, or at the very least trolling, people who are there because they would rather try a quick monster hunt than a long dragged dungeon.

And, as usual, the same jerks laugh and try to legitimate their griefing. Well, I know they don't care about it, but they shouldn't be surprised that some of us really hate the whole PvP crowd. I don't care about dying a few times. It's boring me, it slows my monster hunt, but it's still much, much faster than dungeoning. I do mind the arsehole attitude of what is basically a cancer in every game ever : PvP, and PvP folks.

Palidon

If you can't handle PvP game play then all I can say is stay out of it. I see no reason to complain. You can always purchase the event tickets you need and there are other events that are strictly PvE.

VaranisArano

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

This event is better than Midyear Madness where everyone had to be done in an open PvP zone to get tickets. You have the option to run dungeons for your tickets.

If Midyear Madness had that option it'd be much better and there'd be less griping from the PvE-ers.
There was another thread somewhere that suggested crafting siege engines for AP. Maybe PvE people could get a furnishing plan for siege engines and craft a couple for their tickets during Midyear Madness. You'd still need to go into Cyrodiil for the various achievements, but if someone hated PvP that much they probably wouldn't be interested in those unless they found a way to get them easily, such as win trading.

If you wanna make stuff for AP, buy wall repair kits and repair the walls of your alliances keeps. As long as you pay a modicum of attention to which keeps are coming under attack, you never have to deal with any fighting if you don't want. It'll just be slow and very boring. And its a legitimate strategy for making AP, since players running for emperor repair keeps all the time.

The whole point of Midyear Mayhem is to celebrate all forms of PVP, so I don't find it bothersome that there is no PVE-only method for getting rewards.

Again, it's ZOS, wanting players to at least try all of the game. They don't really care if some players don't enjoy that content - and we see that with all the PVE-only events, group content events, and even something as simple as the TG/DB events. If you want all the rewards, you gotta do all the content.

Uryel

Palidon wrote: »

If you can't handle PvP game play then all I can say is stay out of it. I see no reason to complain. You can always purchase the event tickets you need and there are other events that are strictly PvE.

Oh we can handle it mighty fine, thank you. I haven't PvPed for years, and I still managed to kill more ganking newbfarmers than they managed to kill me. By a small margin, but still. It's just extremely boring and tedious.

I don't understand the point of this event, really. If it's supposed to make us PvE folks like / enjoy PvP, it fails miserably. If the point is to make us buy the tickets to avoid the event entirely, it might work for some, but personnaly I'm not spending a dime on something I can get for free with just a bit of boredom. But truly, I suspect this kind of crap is what the combat team believes to be fun. If so, that's very, very sad.

VaranisArano wrote: »

The whole point of Midyear Mayhem is to celebrate all forms of PVP, so I don't find it bothersome that there is no PVE-only method for getting rewards.

But there is ! You have some PvE quests during midyear mayhem. Granted, they are in Cyrodiil, but with proper caution you can take the quest, get to the target and back without ever having to fight anyone. Heck, I even got the Cyrodiil fishing achievement without fighting anyone, ever.

It's another matter en tirely when you must wander through tight hallways and corridors, though. Sure, there are the dungeons, but between the queue and the dungeon itself, not to mention the extremely boring fact that you'll have to repeat the same dungeons every single day, it's much more time-consuming than being ganked a few times on your way to the boss. Frustration VS time lost, that's basically a proper summary of that event.

Tigerseye

mateosalvaje wrote: »

I'm having several problems with this "Idiotic" thing. Can we just have it locked?

You do PVP and yet, you are triggered by the word "idiotic"?

I find that hard to believe.

Tigerseye

.

Uryel wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Not sure what I was bashing, but fine.

You were bashing PvP. This isn't an acceptable behaviour here. Exemple : the 100+ thread pages about Bosmer stealth was going fine until I mentionned that a solution to all the nerfs and especially stealth removal was to remove PvP entirely. Probably has to do with the lead combat designer being a PvP fan himself.

Anyway, yes, this event is the worst to date. And that's saying something considering that so far we have had to steal a pig, do PvE quests in the only PvP zone, or repeat the same delve quests ad nauseam.

But now, we can repeat the same long arse dungeon ad nauseam, which is basically the same mechanics as repeating delves, but much longer, and thus way more annoying ; or wander in a PvP zone that has only tight corridors and small hallways, making it pretty much impossible to sneak to your objective. And of course, the usual jerks will profit from the event by farming, or at the very least trolling, people who are there because they would rather try a quick monster hunt than a long dragged dungeon.

And, as usual, the same jerks laugh and try to legitimate their griefing. Well, I know they don't care about it, but they shouldn't be surprised that some of us really hate the whole PvP crowd. I don't care about dying a few times. It's boring me, it slows my monster hunt, but it's still much, much faster than dungeoning. I do mind the arsehole attitude of what is basically a cancer in every game ever : PvP, and PvP folks.

On the whole, I agree, but not everyone who PVPs is like that, to be fair.

Also, some high end PVEers are even worse, of course, with their ridiculous elitism, exclusionary attitudes and pointless bragging in inappropriate places.

Not so much in this game, thankfully, but in others (like WoW).

VaranisArano

Uryel wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

If you can't handle PvP game play then all I can say is stay out of it. I see no reason to complain. You can always purchase the event tickets you need and there are other events that are strictly PvE.

Oh we can handle it mighty fine, thank you. I haven't PvPed for years, and I still managed to kill more ganking newbfarmers than they managed to kill me. By a small margin, but still. It's just extremely boring and tedious.

I don't understand the point of this event, really. If it's supposed to make us PvE folks like / enjoy PvP, it fails miserably. If the point is to make us buy the tickets to avoid the event entirely, it might work for some, but personnaly I'm not spending a dime on something I can get for free with just a bit of boredom. But truly, I suspect this kind of crap is what the combat team believes to be fun. If so, that's very, very sad.

VaranisArano wrote: »

The whole point of Midyear Mayhem is to celebrate all forms of PVP, so I don't find it bothersome that there is no PVE-only method for getting rewards.

But there is ! You have some PvE quests during midyear mayhem. Granted, they are in Cyrodiil, but with proper caution you can take the quest, get to the target and back without ever having to fight anyone. Heck, I even got the Cyrodiil fishing achievement without fighting anyone, ever.

It's another matter en tirely when you must wander through tight hallways and corridors, though. Sure, there are the dungeons, but between the queue and the dungeon itself, not to mention the extremely boring fact that you'll have to repeat the same dungeons every single day, it's much more time-consuming than being ganked a few times on your way to the boss. Frustration VS time lost, that's basically a proper summary of that event.

To me, PVE means there's no threat of PVP. Zones like Auridon or Elsweyr are PVE. Cyrodiil and Imperial City are PVP enabled, so the whole zone is PvPvE. There is no safe PVE in Cyrodiil.

All quests in Cyrodiil are PvPvE, as all of them take place in a PVP enabled zone, as intended. All of them are intended to have PVP as the main source of threat. 3 out of the 5 towns are PVP objectives and the other 2 lie between PVP objectives. Chorrol in particular is a target for scroll trollers.

So no, I don't buy that Cyrodiil has PVE quests. There is no PVE safety while questing. None. Every one of those quests can be interrupted by PVP at any time, hence PvPvE.

Minnesinger

I thought about these threads the moment IC event started. I wasn´t disappointed though it took more than a couple of minutes before the first one opened. If you are regular in the forums there is 100% certainty that these and the nerf threads come up every time something happens.

As a side note I try to help the inexperienced players but why can´t more experienced players just learn some pvp??

FlopsyPrince

Minnesinger wrote: »

I thought about these threads the moment IC event started. I wasn´t disappointed though it took more than a couple of minutes before the first one opened. If you are regular in the forums there is 100% certainty that these and the nerf threads come up every time something happens.

As a side note I try to help the inexperienced players but why can´t more experienced players just learn some pvp??

Who qualifies as "experienced"? Learning PvP is not a simple matter, however much some claim that. Some of us will likely never have the twitch skills needed.

I could have fun at it if I was paired with people who are roughly the same skill, but that is unlikely here since we are all grouped in one big pot. I can live with dying, but dying more than 9 out of 10 times, if even that high, gets old really quick.

I suspect a pet sorc (my main) will never do well in the current PvP setup either, unless part of a zerg group.

I don't want anything nerfed though.

Having to go all the way back to the very start on death is quite painful and sucks a lot of playtime as well.

TequilaFire

You don't have to go all the way back to start a friend or group member can revive you.

Ostonoha

Uryel wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Not sure what I was bashing, but fine.

And, as usual, the same jerks laugh and try to legitimate their griefing. Well, I know they don't care about it, but they shouldn't be surprised that some of us really hate the whole PvP crowd. I don't care about dying a few times. It's boring me, it slows my monster hunt, but it's still much, much faster than dungeoning. I do mind the arsehole attitude of what is basically a cancer in every game ever : PvP, and PvP folks.

The only cancer in every game ever (I would also extend this into being an issue in real life) are players with the same mindset as you who generalize an entire group of players based on what they find fun. In this instance the fact that you seem to think "the whole pvp crowd" is a cancer. Meanwhile in pve there are also tons of toxic players you can run into.

Jeremy

kinguardian wrote: »

I get your irritation because for a lot it is easy pickings and if you just want to hop in and out it is frustrating. I wish we could have like a white flag above us" don't kill me I am not here to kill you just passing trough"

I get how pvp works and yes there are mostly pve events but at least in a pve event the other players are not hunting you and as a pvp player it is easier to beat the enemies.

Putting up the White Flag would probably be the equivalent of ringing the dinner bell. So I doubt that would have the intended effect even if it was an option. lol

Iluvrien

Ostonoha wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Not sure what I was bashing, but fine.

And, as usual, the same jerks laugh and try to legitimate their griefing. Well, I know they don't care about it, but they shouldn't be surprised that some of us really hate the whole PvP crowd. I don't care about dying a few times. It's boring me, it slows my monster hunt, but it's still much, much faster than dungeoning. I do mind the arsehole attitude of what is basically a cancer in every game ever : PvP, and PvP folks.

The only cancer in every game ever (I would also extend this into being an issue in real life) are players with the same mindset as you who generalize an entire group of players based on what they find fun. In this instance the fact that you seem to think "the whole pvp crowd" is a cancer. Meanwhile in pve there are also tons of toxic players you can run into.

The problem players aren't associated with PvP or PvE content specifically, but with competitive content.

I would suggest that the requirements that are imposed on people by competitive content, by virtue of how thin the margins for error can be, drive/inspire them to toxic and elitist behaviour. You are always going to get bad apples in every barrel, but I think that by its very nature, competitive content either concentrates those that exist in one place... or takes chilled-out folks and un-chills them.

mrsrobot

I like PvP but the event isn't forced at all. Nobody makes you do anything. I need to be collecting event tickets but I haven't done any event things or got any tickets in this event yet due to time and other practical constraints, like having to use a sucky pc.

RedGirl41

There is only two events a year for pvp. Double ap and double telvar. This is like the only year IC has been actually filled with people. Every single other event is just questing or dungeons. Which everyone complains that pvpers ruin dungeons etc. just do something new. Put on some gear and join some friends or a random zerg from zone chat.

Cadbury

Iluvrien wrote: »

Ostonoha wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Not sure what I was bashing, but fine.

And, as usual, the same jerks laugh and try to legitimate their griefing. Well, I know they don't care about it, but they shouldn't be surprised that some of us really hate the whole PvP crowd. I don't care about dying a few times. It's boring me, it slows my monster hunt, but it's still much, much faster than dungeoning. I do mind the arsehole attitude of what is basically a cancer in every game ever : PvP, and PvP folks.

The only cancer in every game ever (I would also extend this into being an issue in real life) are players with the same mindset as you who generalize an entire group of players based on what they find fun. In this instance the fact that you seem to think "the whole pvp crowd" is a cancer. Meanwhile in pve there are also tons of toxic players you can run into.

The problem players aren't associated with PvP or PvE content specifically, but with competitive content.

I would suggest that the requirements that are imposed on people by competitive content, by virtue of how thin the margins for error can be, drive/inspire them to toxic and elitist behaviour. You are always going to get bad apples in every barrel, but I think that by its very nature, competitive content either concentrates those that exist in one place... or takes chilled-out folks and un-chills them.

Humans are competitive by nature.

FlopsyPrince

RedGirl41 wrote: »

There is only two events a year for pvp. Double ap and double telvar. This is like the only year IC has been actually filled with people. Every single other event is just questing or dungeons. Which everyone complains that pvpers ruin dungeons etc. just do something new. Put on some gear and join some friends or a random zerg from zone chat.

Getting double Tel Var is not relevant for most of us since it is lost so quickly. One death and you lose most of what you had. That is far too fast if you want to make non-PvPers dip their toes in the water more.