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Nerfs ruined MagSorc for PvP
NordJitsu
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MagSorc is gimped in PvP, particularly battle grounds. Stamina builds and heavy armor builds reign supreme.
Two changes in particular ruined MagSorc.
First, the hardened ward nerfs were completely unnecessary and really hurt survivability. A nice compromise here would be to keep the cost increase but bump back up the damage mitigation.
On its own that change wouldn’t have been **too** bad. It’s something you can adapt to without harming overall class viability.
But the second change—to power surge—is a huge nerf for PvP.
You now have to choose between healing on critical damage (which every MagSorc wants/needs in PvP) or getting your major sorcery from a skill,
There are work around a for PvE. You can go with crit surge and use pots for major sorcery for example, which is the best option.
But in PvP there’s no way not to give something up. If you go with pots for sorcery, you can’t use Tri-Pots meaning you lose a burst heal, health recovery, and the ability to sustain your stamina (which you need for blocking and CC break). Stamina is so important in PvP this is probably the worst option.
You are left with two options, neither of which is fully viable.
1) You can stick with power surge and give up a skill slot for Rapid Regeneration or Healing Springs. This is an okay option, because it adds some healing to your teammates, but the self healing is still way too low. Because the healing from surge is now on a 3 second cool down, you can’t get enough healing even if you have 50-60% crit chance. Sacrificing a skill slot is also a big blow.
2) You can run critical surge and get major sorcery from structured entropy. This has a number of drawbacks. Again you have to give up a skill slot. The healing from entropy is weak. The major sorcery lasts less than half as long. You need a target to activate it and it can be cleansed.
Overall MagSorcs took two hits to their damage mitigation, the second of which dramatically reduces their viability. Heavy armor builds (especially DKs and Necros) were already at the top of the heap. Now there’s no worthwhile trade off for a Sorc to use magic and light armor. You’re just volunteering to be less powerful.
My other PvP main is a Stamplar. That class has some major issues as well mostly on the damage output, but when I’m in heavy armor it’s at least viable in PvP.
MagSorc got brutalized with these balance changes despite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
**FIXES**
I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it. But if they’re going to insist on having that morph be useless, at least give Critical Surge major sorcery.
On top of either restoring Power Surge or buffing Critical Surge, the misguided cool down needs adjustment. Ideally there should be no cool down (no cool downs was a central promise of ESO’s combat system.) But if there’s going to be a cool down, at least drop it from 3 seconds to 1 second.
Thoughts? Anyone found a more viable work around while we wait for ZOS to fix this?
Two changes in particular ruined MagSorc.
First, the hardened ward nerfs were completely unnecessary and really hurt survivability. A nice compromise here would be to keep the cost increase but bump back up the damage mitigation.
On its own that change wouldn’t have been **too** bad. It’s something you can adapt to without harming overall class viability.
But the second change—to power surge—is a huge nerf for PvP.
You now have to choose between healing on critical damage (which every MagSorc wants/needs in PvP) or getting your major sorcery from a skill,
There are work around a for PvE. You can go with crit surge and use pots for major sorcery for example, which is the best option.
But in PvP there’s no way not to give something up. If you go with pots for sorcery, you can’t use Tri-Pots meaning you lose a burst heal, health recovery, and the ability to sustain your stamina (which you need for blocking and CC break). Stamina is so important in PvP this is probably the worst option.
You are left with two options, neither of which is fully viable.
1) You can stick with power surge and give up a skill slot for Rapid Regeneration or Healing Springs. This is an okay option, because it adds some healing to your teammates, but the self healing is still way too low. Because the healing from surge is now on a 3 second cool down, you can’t get enough healing even if you have 50-60% crit chance. Sacrificing a skill slot is also a big blow.
2) You can run critical surge and get major sorcery from structured entropy. This has a number of drawbacks. Again you have to give up a skill slot. The healing from entropy is weak. The major sorcery lasts less than half as long. You need a target to activate it and it can be cleansed.
Overall MagSorcs took two hits to their damage mitigation, the second of which dramatically reduces their viability. Heavy armor builds (especially DKs and Necros) were already at the top of the heap. Now there’s no worthwhile trade off for a Sorc to use magic and light armor. You’re just volunteering to be less powerful.
My other PvP main is a Stamplar. That class has some major issues as well mostly on the damage output, but when I’m in heavy armor it’s at least viable in PvP.
MagSorc got brutalized with these balance changes despite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
**FIXES**
I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it. But if they’re going to insist on having that morph be useless, at least give Critical Surge major sorcery.
On top of either restoring Power Surge or buffing Critical Surge, the misguided cool down needs adjustment. Ideally there should be no cool down (no cool downs was a central promise of ESO’s combat system.) But if there’s going to be a cool down, at least drop it from 3 seconds to 1 second.
Thoughts? Anyone found a more viable work around while we wait for ZOS to fix this?
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
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My other PvP main is a Stamplar. That class has some major issues as well mostly on the damage output, but when I’m in heavy armor it’s at least viable in PvP.
MagSorc got brutalized with these balance changes despite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
**FIXES**
I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it. But if they’re going to insist on having that morph be useless, at least give Critical Surge major sorcery.
Wut middle of the pack? in Elsweyr magsorcs were running amok like gods, probably their best patch from last year, when all other classes were nerfed (DK lost reflect, NB minor berserk, major fracture and major defile, snares received a global nerf).
Now magsorc were given new tool - unblockable stun on streak, that is very powerful thing. Sorcs who utilize this together with entropy, curse, frags and meteor are extremely dangerous.
Imagine objecting on necessity to slot entropy - one of the most overloaded skills in ESO ever.Edited by MartiniDaniels on August 27, 2019 10:52PM5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
My other PvP main is a Stamplar. That class has some major issues as well mostly on the damage output, but when I’m in heavy armor it’s at least viable in PvP.
MagSorc got brutalized with these balance changes despite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
**FIXES**
I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it. But if they’re going to insist on having that morph be useless, at least give Critical Surge major sorcery.
Wut middle of the pack? in Elsweyr magsorcs were running amok like gods, probably their best patch from last year, when all other classes were nerfed (DK lost reflect, NB minor berserk, major fracture and major defile, snares received a global nerf).
Now magsorc were given new tool - unblockable stun on streak, that is very powerful thing. Sorcs who utilize this together with entropy, curse, frags and meteor are extremely dangerous.
Imagine objecting on necessity to slot entropy - one of the most overloaded skills in ESO ever.
Yeah, I agree. "MagSorc" are still plenty deadly in PvP and still one of my most dangerous foes. If they are "gimps" in PvP I certainly haven't noticed.Edited by Jeremy on August 27, 2019 10:55PM5 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
My other PvP main is a Stamplar. That class has some major issues as well mostly on the damage output, but when I’m in heavy armor it’s at least viable in PvP.
MagSorc got brutalized with these balance changes despite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
**FIXES**
I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it. But if they’re going to insist on having that morph be useless, at least give Critical Surge major sorcery.
Wut middle of the pack? in Elsweyr magsorcs were running amok like gods, probably their best patch from last year, when all other classes were nerfed (DK lost reflect, NB minor berserk, major fracture and major defile, snares received a global nerf).
Now magsorc were given new tool - unblockable stun on streak, that is very powerful thing. Sorcs who utilize this together with entropy, curse, frags and meteor are extremely dangerous.
Imagine objecting on necessity to slot entropy - one of the most overloaded skills in ESO ever.
Yeah, I agree. "MagSorc" are still plenty deadly in PvP and still one of my most dangerous foes. If they are "gimps" in PvP I certainly haven't noticed.
That doesn’t say much about your ability. Damage is still good, so we can melt noobs. But they can’t take pressure any more.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
My other PvP main is a Stamplar. That class has some major issues as well mostly on the damage output, but when I’m in heavy armor it’s at least viable in PvP.
MagSorc got brutalized with these balance changes despite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
**FIXES**
I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it. But if they’re going to insist on having that morph be useless, at least give Critical Surge major sorcery.
Wut middle of the pack? in Elsweyr magsorcs were running amok like gods, probably their best patch from last year, when all other classes were nerfed (DK lost reflect, NB minor berserk, major fracture and major defile, snares received a global nerf).
Now magsorc were given new tool - unblockable stun on streak, that is very powerful thing. Sorcs who utilize this together with entropy, curse, frags and meteor are extremely dangerous.
Imagine objecting on necessity to slot entropy - one of the most overloaded skills in ESO ever.
Yeah, I agree. "MagSorc" are still plenty deadly in PvP and still one of my most dangerous foes. If they are "gimps" in PvP I certainly haven't noticed.
That doesn’t say much about your ability. Damage is still good, so we can melt noobs. But they can’t take pressure any more.
Or maybe it doesn't say much about your ability.
There are two ways to look at that.Edited by Jeremy on August 27, 2019 11:04PM2 -
dennissomb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Not sure about battlegrounds but in Cyrodiil Sorcs are everywhere and still deadly. Less pet sorcs for sure but overall I run into more sorcs and templars then any other class by a large percentage4
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »Not sure about battlegrounds but in Cyrodiil Sorcs are everywhere and still deadly. Less pet sorcs for sure but overall I run into more sorcs and templars then any other class by a large percentage
They are still very deadly if played well. I agree.Edited by Jeremy on August 27, 2019 11:05PM0 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
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loldespite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
This is now a nerf sorc thread. Let's do this folks!!!!!2 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
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loldespite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
This is now a nerf sorc thread. Let's do this folks!!!!!
They were strong. But Heavy DKs/Necros have been top of the pack, followed by Stamblade in medium. Now the gap is bigger and Sorcs are for sure behind Warden.0 -
mateosalvaje✭✭✭✭I've been saying Critical Surge needs Major Sorcery from a solo PVE perspective, now I see how horribly the change affects PVP as well. Having to lose skill slots, equip a resto staff, or use different potions seem to be the only workarounds and all those options suck. I did beat VMA today with the new changes, but it wasn't pretty. Half my highest score 😕I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mateosalvaje wrote: »I've been saying Critical Surge needs Major Sorcery from a solo PVE perspective, now I see how horribly the change affects PVP as well. Having to lose skill slots, equip a resto staff, or use different potions seem to be the only workarounds and all those options suck. I did beat VMA today with the new changes, but it wasn't pretty. Half my highest score 😕
Can somebody explain me why every magicka build in the game shouldn't have entropy on bar this patch? I farmed VMA as well with it (on magblade) and it was such a relieve to always have oh-shi tri-pots ready instead of corn pots. Entropy is just m-fkng amazing ability. In PVP morph it grants additional healing, in PVE morph additional sustain, ton of damage + all pack of mages guild passive.1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Only sorc I had prior to now was a Stam sorc. I'm personally not a fan of pets.
Started levelling a new non pet sorc in anticipation of this patch. It's already a super fun and effective toon. Can't wait to get it into PVP.
To say they're bottom tier is misleading. It takes a little more theory crafting and outside of the box set combos, but still quite a ways from worst class."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard2 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
My other PvP main is a Stamplar. That class has some major issues as well mostly on the damage output, but when I’m in heavy armor it’s at least viable in PvP.
MagSorc got brutalized with these balance changes despite having been middle of the pack before the patch anyway.
**FIXES**
I don’t think anyone was asking for Power Surge as a healing skill and I don’t think anyone would miss it if ZOS reverted it. But if they’re going to insist on having that morph be useless, at least give Critical Surge major sorcery.
Wut middle of the pack? in Elsweyr magsorcs were running amok like gods, probably their best patch from last year, when all other classes were nerfed (DK lost reflect, NB minor berserk, major fracture and major defile, snares received a global nerf).
Now magsorc were given new tool - unblockable stun on streak, that is very powerful thing. Sorcs who utilize this together with entropy, curse, frags and meteor are extremely dangerous.
Imagine objecting on necessity to slot entropy - one of the most overloaded skills in ESO ever.
Yeah, I agree. "MagSorc" are still plenty deadly in PvP and still one of my most dangerous foes. If they are "gimps" in PvP I certainly haven't noticed.
See, when it comes to Sorcs, there can be no such thing as simply bloody good players, every other class - of course - the really good players make it seem so powerful, and especially against potatoes. Never happens Sorcs huh. I know I, as an example, have a good survivability in PvP and can bite too, if you make a mistake. This comes from a Tank Monster set and a Tank craft set not from Shileds or Surge. Wow. Nerf Sorcs huh.
SMH.Edited by Idinuse on August 28, 2019 12:26AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?1 -
chrightt✭✭✭✭Honestly speaking, from my experience sorcs are definitely not at the bottom of the barrel, but they're also definitely nowhere near the top this patch. I would agree with sorcs being somewhere near the middle.
First up to clarify for a lot of people => Shield abilities themselves are quite weak atm. Shields are comparable to burst heals in some sense, but the amount of shields we're getting for the magicka cost really isn't all that worth it. Furthermore, shields DO NOT bring sorc HP out of execution range which is a major downside of shield. The only upside of shield vs burst heal is actually the fact that shields can "overheal" meaning if your shield is 7k dmg absorption it will always produce a 7k shield even if they're casted when you are at 100% HP. HOWEVER, shield's uptime with hardened ward is 6s. This is not exactly a long duration and an opponent that chooses to cycle their buffs, apply debuffs rather than dmg, or heal themselves will negate the usefulness of shields. Heals on the other hand will always bring your HP up. For this patch I have opted to only using hardened ward because it also gives my allies shield. Honestly speaking, other shields are quite garbage to even stack with hardened and dropping hardened isn't that big a deal if you're running a tankier build where you can just heal straight back up.
As far as pets go, I agree they were too OP so a nerf was needed, but the issue is other skills are not exactly made more usable for sorcerers to access. On the contrary, power surge has turned into a more healer based skill. With generic DoTs turning OP this patch haunted curse' ONLY upside vs generic DoT is its burst damage. It doesn't do more damage over time, it doesn't have other bonus effects other than dealing damage, and most damning of all you can only have 1x up at a time.
Destructive reach is nerfed into a generic DoT while destructive clench is absolutely FREAKING GARBAGE with that next to no damage blockable CC. This skill is so freaking trash I'm not sure ZOS had two brain cells to rub together when they balanced it, severely toning down a potential CC move for most magicka classes, pushing stamina higher on top with a buff to dizzying swing (which I honestly think is fine and the cast time reduction was quite needed to make it smoother).
Some skills (and their morphs) that I would really like to see a change to/buffs are: Bound Armor, Rune Prison, Encase, Surge.
Destructive staff that needs a change: Destructive Touch, Impulse.
Maybe with some buffs to these certain skills magicka classes especially magsorc in this case can feel more unique and diverse rather than the current meta.0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭On my sorc? In BG'S? Every player is covered in Dots. Mages fury is the killing blow king in death match.
I almost feel dirty when I see a big brawl. I'm sharing that fury with everyone.
You've any idea how many times I see the message "You finished playerX" and I'll have no idea who I killed. Lol0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Only sorc I had prior to now was a Stam sorc. I'm personally not a fan of pets.
Started levelling a new non pet sorc in anticipation of this patch. It's already a super fun and effective toon. Can't wait to get it into PVP.
To say they're bottom tier is misleading. It takes a little more theory crafting and outside of the box set combos, but still quite a ways from worst class.
I never said bottom tier, but they did take a big hit in the power rankings
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Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Only sorc I had prior to now was a Stam sorc. I'm personally not a fan of pets.
Started levelling a new non pet sorc in anticipation of this patch. It's already a super fun and effective toon. Can't wait to get it into PVP.
To say they're bottom tier is misleading. It takes a little more theory crafting and outside of the box set combos, but still quite a ways from worst class.
I never said bottom tier, but they did take a big hit in the power rankings
List your power rankings
I'm curious to see1