Bsw or elemental succession on a magdk?

TheNightflame

if you had to use one of these two as your spell damage set with mother's sorrow, which would pull higher dps on a 21 mil?

Sanguinor2

Maximum uptime of bsw is 66% so around 350 spell Damage give or take. Elemental succession can have a 100% uptime on 550 spell Damage in practive however the uptime will be a bit lower but very likely exceed the 66% uptime of bsw unless glaring Errors occur.
It somewhat depends on how many non fire abilities you will be running. Assuming you only run entropy and Soul trap I think elemental succession will outperform since it should buff light attacks in Addition to most of your abilities.
If its single target I´d just run spell strategist instead of either tbh since you can have a very high uptime on it, loose 50 spell Damage but get 500 spell damage on every ability.

Masel

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Maximum uptime of bsw is 66% so around 350 spell Damage give or take. Elemental succession can have a 100% uptime on 550 spell Damage in practive however the uptime will be a bit lower but very likely exceed the 66% uptime of bsw unless glaring Errors occur.
It somewhat depends on how many non fire abilities you will be running. Assuming you only run entropy and Soul trap I think elemental succession will outperform since it should buff light attacks in Addition to most of your abilities.
If its single target I´d just run spell strategist instead of either tbh since you can have a very high uptime on it, loose 50 spell Damage but get 500 spell damage on every ability.

100% is impossible, because the succesion set has a ~4.5 second cooldown instead of 4 on all elements. So the maximum uptime is actually about 90%....

zvavi

Depends on uptimes you are managing to get...

TheNightflame

I was glad to click "no" on "did that answer the question?"

assume perfect roto, and perfect burning uptime regardless of bsw or not

robpr

To get maximum from Ele Succession, you have to not use Entropy and Soultrap because those are not boosted by the set. While you can replace one of them with Scalding Rune, there is not enough fire dots on mDK to replace both unless you place shield or something.
BSW boosts everything with unconditional 500 spell damage but at cost of much less uptime.

Spell Strat is also very good if you dont mind single target only boost - you will do better on bosses but badly on trash/adds

Vildebill

And something everyone keeps forgetting, BSW has a separate burning proc that also deals damage.

techprince

Molten Whip, Engulfing Flames, Burning Embers, Flames Of Oblivion, Eruption, Unstable Wall Of Elements, Destructive Reach, Scalding Rune, Channeled Acceleration/Barbed Trap, Molten Whip

Ults : Standard of Might/Shooting Star/Elemental Rage.

Elemental Succession is quite useful on magdk.

Austinseph1

Actually I tested a lot on my magdk and easily got 95% uptime with Ele Suc. It has a 4 second cooldown so if you have multiple sources it will easily reach near that. It was pretty consistent and sometimes hit 96%. Also BSW is still good for AoE damage and I use both together with great effect. It’s a set that is only really good on MagDK and can loosely be utilized on MagNecro. If I had to choose 1 it would be Ele Succession.

kringled_1

@Austinseph1 was that 5 piece elemental on both bars, or a front bar setup with vma back bar? Did you still use soul trap and entropy or swap to something else? Trying to plan out my options here; I've been lucky enough to have a succession inferno staff but not a bsw.

jaws343

I would personally drop Mother's Sorrow and try running both. Not sure if the spell damage will outweigh the crit chance. But it will certainly boost the base damage of nearly everything on a magdk when running both.

Jodynn

Succession uptime max for me was 95% and that was doubled barred, front bar it averages 85% and 90%

Spell strat will be better single target by a small margin due to slight uptime differences and some skills like degeneration and soul trap being magic damage

If you can siroria and mother sorrow will be best for 21k atro IF you are dunmer and altmer with shadow

If you are khajiit siroria and spell strat if you are using soul trap/degen, if not succession with thief.

Jodynn

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Succession uptime max for me was 95% and that was doubled barred, front bar it averages 85% and 90%

Spell strat will be better single target by a small margin due to slight uptime differences and some skills like degeneration and soul trap being magic damage

If you can siroria and mother sorrow will be best for 21k atro IF you are dunmer and altmer with shadow

If you are khajiit siroria and spell strat if you are using soul trap/degen, if not succession with thief.

I can post a parse if you like

Austinseph1

I use bsw on front bar with vMA back bar and Ele Succ on the body pieces. For single target I switch from grothdarr to zaan and bsw to spell strat. I use degeneration for its good utility but I use a chain build for the sustain and versatility it gives. If your group is good enough swap out that for scalding rune. That way 90% of your damage benefits from the flame damage and you have awesome burning uptime to synergies with combustion.

WrathOfInnos

Depending what you are doing, a Minor Slayer set could be very good too. False Gods and Siroria are both good options, and Moondancer is also not bad if you are getting enough synergies. I would lean toward BSW over ES just based on the fact it buffs Degeneration and Soup Trap, and BSW’s 4 piece Spell Crit is slightly better than Max Magicka.

kringled_1

Thanks for the additional answers so far. I'm just starting to run my Breton magDK as a PvE DD more recently, so I'm just trying to figure out my options. I don't have inferno staves from many sets that will carry to the back bar (basically SS, Moondancer, and Succession), I'm just trying to take a stab at finding one that will be a reasonable setup.

Jodynn

kringled_1 wrote: »

Thanks for the additional answers so far. I'm just starting to run my Breton magDK as a PvE DD more recently, so I'm just trying to figure out my options. I don't have inferno staves from many sets that will carry to the back bar (basically SS, Moondancer, and Succession), I'm just trying to take a stab at finding one that will be a reasonable setup.

SS for single target; Succession for AoE

False god is a good set to pair with Succession and SS instead of mother sorrow IF you get the perfected version.

Siroria is really only for parsing which refer to my notes above.

kringled_1

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Thanks for the additional answers so far. I'm just starting to run my Breton magDK as a PvE DD more recently, so I'm just trying to figure out my options. I don't have inferno staves from many sets that will carry to the back bar (basically SS, Moondancer, and Succession), I'm just trying to take a stab at finding one that will be a reasonable setup.

SS for single target; Succession for AoE

False god is a good set to pair with Succession and SS instead of mother sorrow IF you get the perfected version.

Siroria is really only for parsing which refer to my notes above.

Thanks, I was leaning that way. I don't have perfected False God's (imperfect was fantastic in vma). Would you mind sharing your skill bar setup in the aoe situation?

Jodynn

kringled_1 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Thanks for the additional answers so far. I'm just starting to run my Breton magDK as a PvE DD more recently, so I'm just trying to figure out my options. I don't have inferno staves from many sets that will carry to the back bar (basically SS, Moondancer, and Succession), I'm just trying to take a stab at finding one that will be a reasonable setup.

SS for single target; Succession for AoE

False god is a good set to pair with Succession and SS instead of mother sorrow IF you get the perfected version.

Siroria is really only for parsing which refer to my notes above.

Thanks, I was leaning that way. I don't have perfected False God's (imperfect was fantastic in vma). Would you mind sharing your skill bar setup in the aoe situation?

Sure thing!!

So for single target non parse bosses/aoes/anywhere really :

Frontbar : engulfing flames; flames of oblivion; degeneration; molten whip; burning embers | meteor
Backbar : unstable blockade, coagulating or dampen magicka ( Depends on if healing or shielding is more important ); barbed trap or channeled acceleration (static or mobile fight); flame reach or soul trap or scalding rune ( all dots; pick your favourite they perform close to the same with different aspects, if using succession pick a fire one ); eruption | standard of might

The only exception being ranged fights like vMA I'll use asylum staff with force pulse and if I need more sustain than usual like vCR going downstairs I'll slot spell sym but these are more advanced topics, try to settle on a simple one for now.

For parse bosses I use ( you don't need a heal so you can stack one more DoT ) :

Frontbar : engulfing flames; flames of oblivion; degeneration; molten whip; burning embers | meteor
Backbar : unstable blockade, flame reach; barbed ; soul trap if I'm use spell strat; scalding rune ele succession; eruption | standard of might

As an example to prove I'm not a bad DK lol; here is a parse fight for me using Spell strat and siroria

Jodynn

Rotation will be something like

FoO x 3 pre buff -> trap -> LA -> blockade -> LA -> eruption -> barswap cancel -> LA -> embers -> LA -> degen -> LA -> engulfing -> LA -> flame reach -> LA -> soul trap -> LA -> Standard -> barswap -> LA -> whip keep your dots up ( you'll need to refresh blockade atm. )

Regardless of what you use it'll be the same; refresh dots then whip spam.

Jodynn

Oh and AoE rotation is make sure FoO is up

LA -> Blockade -> LA -> eruption -> barswap cancel -> LA -> engulfing flames

2-3 enemies : LA -> embers both
4-x enemies : No need to put ST dots on, you should be a in a group and you just need to burst them

Engulfing flames spam and then make sure to keep your dots up

kringled_1

Thank you very much. Not that I'll be able to pull numbers anywhere near that, but it gives me something a bit more concrete to work with. Getting used to molten whip will be a bit of a jump, too used to flame/power lash from PvP.