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There is an easy solution to the bot farming epidemic, stop giving gold mats for Lvl 1 resources

  • Epicasballs
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    RouDeR wrote: »
    If they ban the botters by IP/Mac/ Hardware this will significantly reduce the Game sales,

    Lets assume there are 500 people who use bots across all the servers.

    Each of them will probably have like 10 accounts thats 5000 accounts, now let's assume all of these accounts are getting banned every 3 months or so and the botters have to buy new accounts (around 10$ per account) so this is 50 000$ every 3 months or 200 000$ per year, just a simple math guys ^^

    ESO base game is bundled into game passes. 2$ for first 2 months. They buy 2 months and cancel. ESO is basically free. Account gets banned they're out 2 bucks. ESO might get a few cents anytime ESO is downloaded via game passes if that.
  • ShadowKyuubi
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    Why is this in PTS...dude it has been it multiple times is different forums. stop.
    Edited by ShadowKyuubi on September 30, 2019 3:52PM
  • themaddaedra
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    Why is this in PTS...dude it has been it multiple times is different forums. stop.

    This is still a better thread to read than the other qq threads that are somewhat related to pts.
    PC|EU
  • MLGProPlayer
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    Why is this in PTS...dude it has been it multiple times is different forums. stop.

    Considering what a massive problem botting is in this game, it's not being discussed nearly enough.
  • luen79rwb17_ESO
    luen79rwb17_ESO
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    Ugh... The downside is that dreugh wax price has rocketed through the sky.. PC can tell...
    PC/DC/NAserver

    V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk
  • RouDeR
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    RouDeR wrote: »
    If they ban the botters by IP/Mac/ Hardware this will significantly reduce the Game sales,

    Lets assume there are 500 people who use bots across all the servers.

    Each of them will probably have like 10 accounts thats 5000 accounts, now let's assume all of these accounts are getting banned every 3 months or so and the botters have to buy new accounts (around 10$ per account) so this is 50 000$ every 3 months or 200 000$ per year, just a simple math guys ^^

    ESO base game is bundled into game passes. 2$ for first 2 months. They buy 2 months and cancel. ESO is basically free. Account gets banned they're out 2 bucks. ESO might get a few cents anytime ESO is downloaded via game passes if that.

    What are those game passes, can you send me link to such site with these services ?
  • BrentBlemish
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    As someone who has been reporting and dealing with this crisis for months now, I myself have some other solutions based off of my experience and observation on PS4

    1st: Banning the player just causes them to make a new PSN name and start again since they arnt using their PS4 primary account just a sub account. When you make a new account and play ESO you dont have access to a lot of upgrades to the game which is why almost ALL bots are Soul shriven bots. They start in the wailing prison.

    2nd: All these bots are sorcs. They use the pets to agro any enemy that might be in range of a node so the bot can stay on its programmed path.

    3rd: They will also find a node bundle that if far off of main travel paths. (even if its just a bundle of 2-3 iron nodes) So they greatly lower the risk of being spotted or reported.

    The OP did have a good solution but as others mentioned, it does bring up an issue where higher level players who dont have skill points into crafting would be an issue, granted thats nothing a few sky shards and quests wont fix.

    Any solution for PS4 is going to be a move that is more of a major hindrance for botters. It's almost impossible to stop them but if making it drasticly harder to prep new bots vs the frequency they get banned is a step in the right direction. so here are a few of my ideas.

    Make resource farming in DLC zones the primarily BEST place to farm nodes or equal to the abundance and high spawn rate of starter zones. all of these bots that have to start over after being banned dont have access to DLC zones since they are tied to the crown store. (majority) this would mean they would have to buy the DLC zones EVERY TIME they make a new bot.

    Another idea is moving the pets from deadric summoning to a higher level. Causing all the new bots to have a grind up to a certain level to gain a pet that can hold agro while they farm nodes. Its a bit more unrealistic since i dont think the Devs want to move a class tree identity further up its pipeline just to counter botters.

    And here is my best idea... All resource nodes are locked until you reach a certain level and are REQUIRED for you to take the crafting certification quest line that are located in cities like Davon's Watch. Right now those quest lines are optional but making them mandatory for crafting and only obtainable after a certain level would DRASTICALLY hinder bot farmers and still making crafting accessible for all players. Even if you are a max character who doesn't have points into your crafting lines but still wishes to farm nodes for gold mats.
  • Epicasballs
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    RouDeR wrote: »
    RouDeR wrote: »
    If they ban the botters by IP/Mac/ Hardware this will significantly reduce the Game sales,

    Lets assume there are 500 people who use bots across all the servers.

    Each of them will probably have like 10 accounts thats 5000 accounts, now let's assume all of these accounts are getting banned every 3 months or so and the botters have to buy new accounts (around 10$ per account) so this is 50 000$ every 3 months or 200 000$ per year, just a simple math guys ^^

    ESO base game is bundled into game passes. 2$ for first 2 months. They buy 2 months and cancel. ESO is basically free. Account gets banned they're out 2 bucks. ESO might get a few cents anytime ESO is downloaded via game passes if that.

    What are those game passes, can you send me link to such site with these services ?

    @RouDeR Microsoft has one for xbox. I assume there is one ps4 also, and maybe even Steam, but xbox absolutely has it. It's 100% the reason bot trains farming scraps in every zone are so prevalent on console.

    Edit: Just checked xbox game pass works on pc also.
    Another Edit: on ps4 it's called PS Now.
    Edited by Epicasballs on September 30, 2019 5:42PM
  • jeanbulinckxub17_ESO
    I do have a better suggestion.

    Implement the Turing Challenge feature.

    Any player, once a day (20 hours cooldown can be nice), can challenge a player he thinks is a bot.
    Follow a non-lethal duel the bot cannot decline, runway, teleport or disconnect.
    The loser (bots are not good at fighting humans, yet) can be teleported to a random wayshrine.
    Bots are not good to resolve random events.

    Abused players have a chance to react and even report abusing players.
    Also, the 20 hours cooldown is a good practice against abuse.
    Obviously this feature should be deactivated in Cyrodiil.

    I believe we can go on the economics path. If we can turn practice in a non economically viable it will stop.
    This has the advantage of reporting bots in a fun activity.
  • Veinblood1965
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    This game lacks GM's is what the problem is. In other games I've actually had a GM's character come right onto the spot where I reported a bot and interact with me. They messaged the bots and if no reply was sent the account was banned.
  • Nestor
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    idk wrote: »
    Nestor wrote: »
    Nestor wrote: »
    Sounds good, but what about all the high level players who do not spend the 50 to 60 skill points in material passives just to farm?

    What ZOS needs to do is start IP Banning accounts. Sure it's not a perfect solution, but make it difficult and the gold sellers will infest other games. Gold Sellers do not make much more than mine wages, so any impact on the dollar per hour will have a huge impact.

    IP banning is difficult. Not everyone even has a static IP, some providers use shared IP's, and with all the low cost VPN's nowadays you can easily change your IP by just connecting through a different VPN server.

    Used to do it all the time when I was a moderator on the Bethesda Forums. Very effective at getting rid of problem people. Most ISPs/Institutions use IPV6 as the need to track what is done on the internet out weighs any ip convience. Not all that many people use VPNs, so coddling them is a good risk reward trade. No real reason ZOS can't just say no vpns.

    If we wait for a perfect solution, it will never come.

    Forum goers are mostly normal people. Botters are hackers as a profession. This is their living of sorts and they have the tools to go to greater lengths.

    If tackling the bots was as easy as blocking their IP address then I doubt we would be seeing as many bots as we do. I do not think Zos management is that incompetent that they would not use such an easy tool if it was that effective.

    Botters are nothing more than people who cant make a living otherwise. At best, they make near minimum wage. If they had any smarts or sophistication, they would have another job. The Hacking aspect went out the door as soon as all the scripting tools became available on line. These people are not all that sophisticated.

    So, people don't think IP bans would work. Maybe maybe not. What would work is Hardware Bans. ZOS knows if I change a video card or sound card on my machine, they can use the same mechanism to ban people. I am sure consoles have a similar hardware signature, as they are essentially PCs under the hood, so it should work for those also.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Veinblood1965
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    Or how about the classic "I am not a BOT" pop up window where you have to choose four pictures that contain a Skeever for example before looting.
  • Dusk_Coven
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    Or how about the classic "I am not a BOT" pop up window where you have to choose four pictures that contain a Skeever for example before looting.

    I would prefer to explore options that didn't penalize legitimate players.
    ZOS needs to employ a GM.
  • LadySinflower
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    MajBludd wrote: »
    We need more bots, the infused jewelry trait is almost impossible to find in traders. Wtf, bots?

    I'm guessing you're not on the Xbox NA server. But in case you are (or anyone else is)... Do you need infused jewelry for research? I have two "exemplary infused" rings and two "exemplary infused" necklaces. I've been holding on to them for alts but they could be for sale.

    ShadokatPH66 on Xbox NA.
  • Zweible
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    The 1st step is for ZOS to actually realize that botting is a problem and affecting its player base. I have seen no indication at all that ZOS is interested in even slowing down the problem. Try to even find a thread about botting that ZOS will even interact with (other than locking it). They don't care in the least.
  • Tandor
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    I do have a better suggestion.

    Implement the Turing Challenge feature.

    Any player, once a day (20 hours cooldown can be nice), can challenge a player he thinks is a bot.
    Follow a non-lethal duel the bot cannot decline, runway, teleport or disconnect.
    The loser (bots are not good at fighting humans, yet) can be teleported to a random wayshrine.
    Bots are not good to resolve random events.

    Abused players have a chance to react and even report abusing players.
    Also, the 20 hours cooldown is a good practice against abuse.
    Obviously this feature should be deactivated in Cyrodiil.

    I believe we can go on the economics path. If we can turn practice in a non economically viable it will stop.
    This has the advantage of reporting bots in a fun activity.

    No thanks, it's just an excuse for the worst excesses of open world PvP. You might think that would be countered by the ability for victims to report abusing players but the moment any hint of open world PvP comes into the game an awful lot of players will be gone. ZOS know that only too well.
  • Tandor
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    On the subject of banning IP addresses, this was raised on the Lineage 2 forum many years ago, with player demands that it should be implemented for both gold sellers and buyers. One of the developers responded that it was perfectly doable, but that players should realise that it if happened then three-quarters of North America would be excluded from the game :wink: !
    Edited by Tandor on October 2, 2019 10:58PM
  • Jhalin
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    This is a good suggestion. As for the people
    Saying it hurts those who don’t have points in crafting, that is a good thing. Dedicated crafting toons should get more from gathering materials.

    Drop rates can always be adjusted. Bots at low levels have their gold temper rates halved or more. Good
  • MasterSpatula
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    *whispers*

    The solution to the problem is paying actual gamemasters.
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • Mr_Walker
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    Gariele wrote: »
    That’s not true, there are bots of all levels. This is not a fix to the problem but a hinderance to new players.

    I've not see any bots above around lvl 10 and under on PS4 NA. They're all new characters and the majority are Sorcs with a pet. They all have a name like aljkdljkdjfjf.

    ^^^ same on xbox, typically lvl 3-4
  • Mr_Walker
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    The high level bots are active players who are cheaters

    ftfy

  • Dusk_Coven
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    Any player, once a day (20 hours cooldown can be nice), can challenge a player he thinks is a bot.

    This basically reads, "Once a day I can attack someone for fun".
    And just because a bot probably can't win easily, doesn't mean a lowbie new player can do visibly better either.

    I can just imagine people using it to stalk and grief others. Get a bunch of their friends together and over and over again grief one person.
    Sure they can be reported for abuse, but by then it's too late. If you expect ZOS to handle the abuse report in a timely fashion, you might as well get a GM to investigate the initial bot report instead.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on October 3, 2019 4:11AM
  • Nova Sky
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    *whispers*

    The solution to the problem is paying actual gamemasters.

    Ages ago, when ESO first launched and for a period of a year or two afterward, there were actual Gamemasters in ESO and sightings of them, even! More than once, zone chat would light up when a GM was spotted and the GM would even engage on occasion with the community — usually by "killing" a bot in plain view of real players, but sometimes in more humorous ways as well.
    "Wheresoever you go, go with all of your heart."
  • bmnoble
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    I don't know what's going on with the lack of them getting banned on PS4 but they've just about taken over the starter zones. They're everywhere now.

    And the reason why? Because it's so easy to farm gold materials they can sell for money.

    Every one of these bots they use is under lvl 10 because it takes way too long to level up all these characters that occasionally do finally get banned.

    The solution is simple. Stop giving gold materials from farming basic lvl 1 resources. Nobody is crafting lvl 10 armor or jewelry and then upgrading it to gold. You shouldn't even have a 1% chance for a gold temper from Iron Ore or Chromium Grains from Pewter.

    The issue will be addressed and you guys can go back to not monitoring the game.


    Won't do anything, the person setting up the bot would have to spend a few more minutes to level the character up enough to invest one skill point in the next level of each of the relevant crafting passives.
  • jircris11
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    I don't know what's going on with the lack of them getting banned on PS4 but they've just about taken over the starter zones. They're everywhere now.

    And the reason why? Because it's so easy to farm gold materials they can sell for money.

    Every one of these bots they use is under lvl 10 because it takes way too long to level up all these characters that occasionally do finally get banned.

    The solution is simple. Stop giving gold materials from farming basic lvl 1 resources. Nobody is crafting lvl 10 armor or jewelry and then upgrading it to gold. You shouldn't even have a 1% chance for a gold temper from Iron Ore or Chromium Grains from Pewter.

    The issue will be addressed and you guys can go back to not monitoring the game.

    Sadly bots are all over lvl wise.
    IGN: Ki'rah
    Khajiit/Vampire
    DC/AD faction/NA server.
    RPer
  • jeanbulinckxub17_ESO
    I agree ESO needs to hire gamemasters ASAP.
    Considering it needs around 6 workers/server to cover 7/24 (plus sick leave, vacancy, etc) it's not a big issue.
    Zenimax can even hire remote and in the third word to keep wages low.
  • Alphawolf01A
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    "Holds up sign"
    (will GM for crowns)
  • spartaxoxo
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    This would not solve the problem. It would only hurt legitimate characters. Bots would just grind mobs below a certain level and then go right back to farming mats.

    Also some of those "bots" are human beings who behave like bots in very poor regions that then sell the gold for cash to feed their families. They aren't going to be fooled by any of the things that fool a robot.

    Combating this problem takes a lot.of human resources. And that means it won't go away entirely.
  • Alphawolf01A
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    Don't try to justify botting with the whole "poor region" "feeding their families" thing. That's just assumption.
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