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What is wrong with medium armor?

  • Fur_like_snow
    Fur_like_snow
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    Had the idea maybe change the stealth passive to a percent based reduction from DoT damage(necro has a similar passive). With all the unblockable undodgeable skills that got buffed this patch it would help keep medium in the fight longer.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on August 18, 2019 3:04AM
  • TheBonesXXX
    TheBonesXXX
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    Get rid of the 5 piece bonus and we can work on making hybrids king.
    Warning:Incoming sarcasm and sardonicism.

    PvP just doesn't have one playstyle.
  • jaysins
    jaysins
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    Change the sneak passive to crit resistance, I'd say 100 to 150 per piece of medium armor, make the crit percentage to 365 so it's more in line with light armor and change the increase sprint speed by 3% to 2% but make it movement speed instead of sprint.

    We'd have slightly better healing and damage, more tankiness and be more mobile while attacking.
    Jaisins -AD Stamsorc. Can't outrun an orc sorc
    Bearingitall -EP Warden. Lions and tigers and especially Bears oh my
  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    I think it's funny because stacking Stam, the main resource used in medium, isn't as viable as stacking magicka just based on the Passives. And you would think that it would be the opposite because Stam is used for movement/blocking as well as everything else. And there isn't an "inner light" for Stam users except Sorc, and I'm not sure if anyone slots aegis.
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Don't play in medium armor. ZOS tried to buff it in this patch and failed spectacular, so I think they're gonna give up on that. Medium armor wasn't meta for a single patch in 4 years now, I've never experienced something like that in another game.
  • festher
    festher
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    Don't play in medium armor. ZOS tried to buff it in this patch and failed spectacular, so I think they're gonna give up on that. Medium armor wasn't meta for a single patch in 4 years now, I've never experienced something like that in another game.

    Totally agree. Im in heavy Pariah with full HP enchants now. Obviously it brings a new dilemme when you have to dedicate two armor set (armor pieces/monster set) for defence (BS/Troll king). I lack sustain and damage both but at least i can participate... Spriggans/Shacklebraeker and even Medium Fortified is in the bank now sadly
  • mrsrobot
    mrsrobot
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    Is it possible to do vMA in medium armor?
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    @mrsrobot you're in PvP zone, but yes you can. VMA is mostly about knowing mechanics, do it enough and it gets pretty easy.

    As for medium in BGs; all of my stam builds have been in medium. While experiences vary, I do well and enjoy it
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer BG Archer - No Gank
  • mrsrobot
    mrsrobot
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    @mrsrobot you're in PvP zone, but yes you can. VMA is mostly about knowing mechanics, do it enough and it gets pretty easy.

    As for medium in BGs; all of my stam builds have been in medium. While experiences vary, I do well and enjoy it

    Thank you very much 😊
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Don't play in medium armor. ZOS tried to buff it in this patch and failed spectacular, so I think they're gonna give up on that. Medium armor wasn't meta for a single patch in 4 years now, I've never experienced something like that in another game.

    The thing is what are you going to use? Heavy took huge losses to damage so it’s going to be very hard to kill players while wearing heavy. If you switch to magicka they took big sustain nerfs because of the cost increase to shields and the harness sustain nerf as well as 80% of them still have no mobility because RAT 2 seconds of snare immunity is pretty bad. You might as well play what you like because all armors have glaring weaknesses right now.
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    Kadoin wrote: »
    Kadoin wrote: »
    Light Armor gives 4884 Spell Penetration in its last passive.
    Medium Armor does not give 4884 Physical Penetration, in any passive.

    Honestly, Light and Medium armor should be 1:1 mirror in their strength bonus differences.
    E.g. Medium Armor gets a measly 14% Weapon Damage increase. Give Light Armor a 14% Spell Damage increase.
    Light Armor gives 4884 Spell Penetration. Give Medium Armor 4884 Physical Penetration. Etc...
    Obviously keep the sneaking-speed for Medium and the sprinting-speed for Light, as-is.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RobGarrett might be worth checking out, internally. Before you ruin any other class/weapon ability passives and skill lines. Take a Look at Medium and Light armor passives, and BALANCE those first to 1:1 mirror/ratio, with Light giving Spell/Magic and Medium giving Weapon/Physical. It's not rocket science.

    Only problem is that spell damage and weapon damage aren't equal by design of the game. It would actually have to be a % of max magicka for it to positively affect every LA build out there instead of a few. And doing that would only make the exact builds you are complaining about stronger. In fact, it is the idea of mag and stam having complete set counterparts that is creating this problem in the first place (Alfiq, Bright-Throat), and your solution is more mirroring?

    So either give Medium Armor users the 4884 Physical Penetration, or remove Light Armor users 4884 Spell Penetration.
    And, Spell Penetration has nothing to do with those builds being extremely tanky. Lol.
    Penetration is an offensive stat, not a defensive one.

    You are jumbling too many variables and topics together.

    Can you read? Also, why exactly would medium keep 15% damage and light lose penetration but gain nothing?

    Lastly, what about "tanky builds" where exactly did I mention that?

    EDIT: oops, forgot it was 15% now, even better...

    "And doing that would only make the exact builds you are complaining about stronger."

    Can you read? Who's complaining? What builds? Again, all I see are your baseless words with no direct meaning or examples attached.

    Like I said previously,
    Light armor gets 4884 Spell Penetration and Medium Armor gets 15% Weapon Damage. That is unbalanced and uneven.

    The thread's topic is regarding: "What is wrong with medium armor?" Those 2 passives' stat differences are what is wrong.
    Light Armor gets 5k Spell Penetration and Medium Armor gets 15% Weapon Damage.
    It should be made even, a 1:1 ratio. Just like every armor set and everything else that is becoming standardized and uniform in ZOS's ability 'audits.'
    Bone Pirate and Bright-Throat sets come to mind. Hunding's Rage and Law of Julianos sets come to mind. Etc.
    These are all 1:1 equivalent-stat mirrored sets. One is a Stamina version. One is a Magicka version.
    Light Armor is for Magicka users. Medium Armor is for Stamina users. Make their passives reflect that, then.

    Want Medium Armor to perform better in comparison to Light and Heavy? Then the Medium Armor passive(s) need to be buffed AND/OR Light/Heavy passive(s) need to be nerfed. Those are literally the only options.

    Give Medium Armor 5k Physical Penetration on top of the 15% Weapon Damage. Or, remove Light Armor's 5k Spell Penetration and give Light Armor 15% Spell Damage, or whatever other combination that equals out to Light and Medium having 1:1 stat ratio differences, aside from Medium Armor receiving sneak cost bonuses and Light receiving sprint cost bonuses.

    Again, it's not rocket science.
    The extra stats would help with dealing with the meta invincible tank builds since damage shields and mitigation are already way over the top. Players take too much time to kill (TTK) now, more than ever before. Did you not play the game years ago in previous patches and previous metas when this was not the case?

    The light armor spell pen passive comes out to around a 7% damage increase. Medium weapon damage can vary but on the average build it will add around 500 weapon damage. Both will come out to around equal damage output though. No need to change either. The medium vs light passives are already balanced. If you believe light is performing better than medium (which I don’t) it means that magicka users have access to stronger abilities. On average though medium armor builds hit harder than light armor builds. It’s rare to be bursted by a light armor user. You are generally worn down. While a medium user can take you from 100 to 0. When you start to make all passives and armor have 1:1 balance you make the game stale. Medium performs better in some situations and light performs better in some situations and that’s the way it should be.

    Agree, if we will compare passives 1 to 1, both types will be close to each other. But problem here is that shields protect against everything while roll-dodge doesn't protect against channels and dots, and especially new dots. Also shields can be spammed while roll-dodge have escalating cost increase. And overall there are only few good medium sets and they are all offensive or sustain. So maybe ZOS should add some additional functionality to roll-dodge like suppressing dots for 3 seconds or something like that.

    Adding it simply to Roll Dodge would be too strong for LIGHT/HEAVY users also though. You would have to restrict it to 5 or even 7 medium armor users.

    I would recommend instead of suppressing dots entirely to do the following:

    NEW 5/7 MEDIUM ARMOR PASSIVE: "Stop, Drop and Roll"
    "While roll-dodging remove 1 damage overtime effect (Prioritizes longest duration DoT applied to you) and the BURNING status effect."

    It doesn't have to alleviate ALL dot pressure. Just some DoT pressure can go a long way.






    Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on August 18, 2019 5:41PM
    PS4 NA DC
  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    Here's my 2 penny's on it. Remove pen from light armor and add 15%spell damage instead. Adjust defile to scale higher so heavy doesn't reign supreme. Remove bonus healing % on low health targets so they can't 10% to 100% on 2 casts. Adjust battle spirit to give more base health.

    4100+(Y×0.2)+2500+5100+3000=way to much pen for 18k average targets in medium armor. These are rough estimates of light armor pen excluding spinners and only running like 40 points into pen CP allocation.

    It's basically like running no armor if you choose anything except Heavy, and you can still achieve numbers close to this by running heavy armor with spinners.

    Why would you even try to outpace penetration for survival when you really can't. Swift set and minor prot are your only real options unless you run heavy, or gank.
    Edited by Lokey0024 on August 20, 2019 6:06AM
  • evoniee
    evoniee
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    everybody that isnt lying know LA penetration is better at no cp than MA wep dmg.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    evoniee wrote: »
    everybody that isnt lying know LA penetration is better at no cp than MA wep dmg.

    The game is balanced around CP pvp though. Also in both CP and no cp stamina builds hit a lot harder that magicka builds. Damage isn’t what medium armor is missing. Medium has plenty of damage. If medium is going to receive buffs it should be to survivability. I think overall ZoS intends for medium armor to have a hit and run type play style which is why medium has a lot more burst and mobility than light. I think people are jumping to conclusions too early on the light vs medium comparisons. You still aren’t really going to see light builds 1vXing because of the lack of CCs, not a lot of good execute abilities, low burst damage, and bad mobility. Magicka is more built for sustain fights because they apply a lot of consistent pressure. This style of play is just not that good for solo PvP.
  • BaiterOfZergs
    BaiterOfZergs
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    evoniee wrote: »
    everybody that isnt lying know LA penetration is better at no cp than MA wep dmg.

    Why do so many people on the forums look at everything in a vacuum ? The more comments I read in the thread it just seems like someone is lobbying for more homogenization. The exact thing that’s been killing the game in pvp and pve.

    Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    Dodge Roll should be cheaper and not have such a severe increase on consecutive dodge rolls, since they got rid of passive dodge (by changing Evasion) we need to actively dodge roll more. Also i wouldn't mind if they adjusted the requirement for the passives so that medium can wear 5-1-1 and get that best use out of Undaunted Mettle.

    Add a purge to Shuffle/ Elude :p
    Edited by LeHarrt91 on August 21, 2019 4:44AM
    PS4 NA 1100+ CP
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • festher
    festher
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    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    Dodge Roll should be cheaper and not have such a severe increase on consecutive dodge rolls, since they got rid of passive dodge (by changing Evasion) we need to actively dodge roll more. Also i wouldn't mind if they adjusted the requirement for the passives so that medium can wear 5-1-1 and get that best use out of Undaunted Mettle.

    Add a purge to Shuffle/ Elude :p

    Yes indeed! Dodge Roll is a much more fun way to avoid dmg than running around a tree. Also more heroic lol. Its good action and it shouldnt cost as much stam
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