Application of Soul Trap (PvP) - applies through roll dodge

wills43b14_ESO

While dueling my friend and I noticed we were still getting dot applications while roll dodge rolling and decided to try testing out Soul Trap (consuming trap morph I believe, but I don't remember which morph my friend used for sure) and various other dots (various stam DK dots). Noxious of course hit through roll dodge, which would be expected, while claw did not, which was also expected. However, Soul Trap seemed to do the unexpected: it applied while roll dodging - roll dodging seemed to negate the first tick of damage if I remember correctly, but every subsequent tick would hit you. Is this intended? If ZOS would like I can record some video evidence of this late tonight when I get home or others could also test it out fairly easily. He would give me a countdown where he would cast the skill on "1" and I would initiate a roll dodge about half a second before the cast of a dot.

wills43b14_ESO

I suppose I should clarify: I would roll dodge before it hit me, but it seemed to apply the dot regardless of whether you roll dodged or not. What I did notice was rolling seemed to cause the ticks to "miss" (or at least the first tick when testing - I didn't confirm this for sure other than my buddy would say he got a "missed" notification). However, since the dot was applied regardless, you would receive every subsequent tick.

Solariken

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

wills43b14_ESO

Idk... we were testing quite a bit last night and the dots seemed pretty overbearing. Imagine having 2-3 people apply 2-3 dots... you're going to die. To be fair, I play a magsorc which got almost completely gutted other than streak, but I couldn't even outheal the dots or outshield them (as in, I was dotted up and kiting successfully, but bird spam couldn't keep up w/ dots and shielding barely did) until I built in 2500 magicka sustain. Call me crazy, but I feel like dots are going to overperform in PvP. Making a very strong ST dot that is ALSO a massive heal/sustain tool (if the target is killed) undodgeable is overperforming.

wills43b14_ESO

When I reverse applied the dots my friend had about the same issue, but he at least had fairly standard hots. I actually ended up slotting crit surge to deal with it which is something I haven't had to do in awhile. I essentially shifted my build entirely to defensive/sustain/kiting oriented to deal with it. It makes for pretty stale gameplay and is going to encourage tanker builds again.... and that's a problem.

MartiniDaniels

Solariken wrote: »

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

You understand that zerg will simply mass lash to death absolutely any player on sight, no matter melee or ranged, magicka or not with this two "not projectiles" - soul trap and entropy?

wills43b14_ESO

When both of my bars are rotating shields, hots, defensive buffs, and 3-4 skills plus an ultimate, and a frag proc that I can use offensively, it feels pretty bad.

MashmalloMan

Solariken wrote: »

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

Always been the case? You mean when the ability was next to useless?

Let's be real here.

• Medium Armor does not have the mitigation Heavy does. (Protective Jewelry Nerfed + Major Evasion does nothing against single target dots, to which 3 new strong 1s are available now).
• One of the main defenses of Medium, dodge roll does not prevent this dot that can be cast 28m away.
• Resolving Vigor lasts 1s less and heals only about 7% more than live and does not heal allies. More time recasting = less time on offense.
• Rally hot removed.
• Bleeds no longer ignore mitigation. Why not just go Heavy with no concern for resistance being redundant.

I don't see many reasons to use Medium if Heavy does so much more. The slight nerfs to a few sets won't change that.

wills43b14_ESO

Unfortunately I think this patch is going to enforce most of the same old stuff we all hate - ball groups, zerging, and heavy armor. If we're lucky small scale might be decent this patch, but realistically we know this isn't going to happen.

Lokey0024

Man there's a group of you that like to pile on huh

No_Division

What else can stop it? If it goes through dodge, it's gotta be blocked lol. Interesting bugs.

wills43b14_ESO

So far nothing - I didn't specifically test block, but I don't think that would stop it either... it would probably just reduce ticks

wheem_ESO

wills43b14_ESO wrote: »

So far nothing - I didn't specifically test block, but I don't think that would stop it either... it would probably just reduce ticks

Block generally does nothing at all vs DOTs (other than reduce the initial damage on those abilities that have any).

Seraphayel

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

You understand that zerg will simply mass lash to death absolutely any player on sight, no matter melee or ranged, magicka or not with this two "not projectiles" - soul trap and entropy?

How is this any different for most other damaging skills? It’s not. When used by multiple enemies vs. you alone you should die. That’s how it is with every DPS skill in game. Doesn’t really matter if it’s Snipe, Frags, Whip, Bleeds or whatever.

It can be purged, right? How often was Magicka told to purge bleeds. Guess what, slot a purge and purge Soul Trap - will work as good as purging bleeds.

Derra

Soultrap was always undodgeable - it’s the only redeeming factor in pvp it has over entropy

MartiniDaniels

Seraphayel wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

You understand that zerg will simply mass lash to death absolutely any player on sight, no matter melee or ranged, magicka or not with this two "not projectiles" - soul trap and entropy?

How is this any different for most other damaging skills? It’s not. When used by multiple enemies vs. you alone you should die. That’s how it is with every DPS skill in game. Doesn’t really matter if it’s Snipe, Frags, Whip, Bleeds or whatever.

It can be purged, right? How often was Magicka told to purge bleeds. Guess what, slot a purge and purge Soul Trap - will work as good as purging bleeds.

First of all soul trap can be used by stamina too and as you can see this thread was created by magsorc btw...

Jeezye

Derra wrote: »

Soultrap was always undodgeable - it’s the only redeeming factor in pvp it has over entropy

wait Im pretty sure entropy is undodgeable too. Used it on my magblade to proc skoria und dodgerolling targets last patch, I dont think it changed.

And yes, entropy and soultrap are hella strong given the fact you cant avoid them... *cough* cripple *cough*

Seraphayel

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

You understand that zerg will simply mass lash to death absolutely any player on sight, no matter melee or ranged, magicka or not with this two "not projectiles" - soul trap and entropy?

How is this any different for most other damaging skills? It’s not. When used by multiple enemies vs. you alone you should die. That’s how it is with every DPS skill in game. Doesn’t really matter if it’s Snipe, Frags, Whip, Bleeds or whatever.

It can be purged, right? How often was Magicka told to purge bleeds. Guess what, slot a purge and purge Soul Trap - will work as good as purging bleeds.

First of all soul trap can be used by stamina too and as you can see this thread was created by magsorc btw...

How exactly does this impact the purge argument though?

MartiniDaniels

Seraphayel wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

You understand that zerg will simply mass lash to death absolutely any player on sight, no matter melee or ranged, magicka or not with this two "not projectiles" - soul trap and entropy?

How is this any different for most other damaging skills? It’s not. When used by multiple enemies vs. you alone you should die. That’s how it is with every DPS skill in game. Doesn’t really matter if it’s Snipe, Frags, Whip, Bleeds or whatever.

It can be purged, right? How often was Magicka told to purge bleeds. Guess what, slot a purge and purge Soul Trap - will work as good as purging bleeds.

First of all soul trap can be used by stamina too and as you can see this thread was created by magsorc btw...

How exactly does this impact the purge argument though?

It's not an argument. To got full pack of bleeds you need to be in melee range with DK for full rotation and then for whole "attrition" period. To receive several soultraps from 40 meters you don't need to be anywhere.

And I don't get it why you position this skill as some kind of "magicka against stamina"?
What prevents zerg stamDK to go with bow/bow and spam buffed master's poison injection + soul trap + acid spray from AS bow and juicy 15k free snipes (snipe procs new DK combustion passive every time) in no-CP?

Or even wear pelinal and go bow/resto to add broken RR and entropy to be used at 5k spell damage? Of course such player won't kill any other properly spec'd PVP player in 1v1. But now imagine just 2-3 players stacking all this on you?

Derra

Jeezye wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Soultrap was always undodgeable - it’s the only redeeming factor in pvp it has over entropy

wait Im pretty sure entropy is undodgeable too. Used it on my magblade to proc skoria und dodgerolling targets last patch, I dont think it changed.

And yes, entropy and soultrap are hella strong given the fact you cant avoid them... *cough* cripple *cough*

Degeneration on live is 100% dodgeable

MartiniDaniels

Derra wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Soultrap was always undodgeable - it’s the only redeeming factor in pvp it has over entropy

wait Im pretty sure entropy is undodgeable too. Used it on my magblade to proc skoria und dodgerolling targets last patch, I dont think it changed.

And yes, entropy and soultrap are hella strong given the fact you cant avoid them... *cough* cripple *cough*

Degeneration on live is 100% dodgeable

You are sure it is dodge and not a "miss"? Anyway you can't dodge it purposefully like flame reach/bow proc etc because it doesn't have slow flying projectile.

SenpaiNFT

Seraphayel wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

You understand that zerg will simply mass lash to death absolutely any player on sight, no matter melee or ranged, magicka or not with this two "not projectiles" - soul trap and entropy?

How is this any different for most other damaging skills? It’s not. When used by multiple enemies vs. you alone you should die. That’s how it is with every DPS skill in game. Doesn’t really matter if it’s Snipe, Frags, Whip, Bleeds or whatever.

It can be purged, right? How often was Magicka told to purge bleeds. Guess what, slot a purge and purge Soul Trap - will work as good as purging bleeds.

Did you just tell a Stamina build to slot purge?

Why are people like this allowed to comment on the forums? They contribute absolutely no semblance of logical and rational discussion and only come onto threads to spread blatant misinformation and biases.

I don’t know why you even bothered commenting, saying something that ignorant. My goodness some of the people on these forums, I really wonder how they fare in real life sometimes. Should be ashamed of yourself.

universal_wrath

Senche-raht's Grit:

2 items) Adds 4% Healing Done
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) After being damaged by a damage over time ability, increase your Healing Received by 6% and your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2585 for 3 seconds.

Any good next patch to avoid getting nuked by dots?

Seraphayel

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

This has always been the case, and it should stay that way IMO. It's not a projectile.

You understand that zerg will simply mass lash to death absolutely any player on sight, no matter melee or ranged, magicka or not with this two "not projectiles" - soul trap and entropy?

How is this any different for most other damaging skills? It’s not. When used by multiple enemies vs. you alone you should die. That’s how it is with every DPS skill in game. Doesn’t really matter if it’s Snipe, Frags, Whip, Bleeds or whatever.

It can be purged, right? How often was Magicka told to purge bleeds. Guess what, slot a purge and purge Soul Trap - will work as good as purging bleeds.

Did you just tell a Stamina build to slot purge?

Why are people like this allowed to comment on the forums? They contribute absolutely no semblance of logical and rational discussion and only come onto threads to spread blatant misinformation and biases.

I don’t know why you even bothered commenting, saying something that ignorant. My goodness some of the people on these forums, I really wonder how they fare in real life sometimes. Should be ashamed of yourself.

Calm down. I was part joking part retaliating for all the stuff Magicka had to hear about Bleeds and how easily they can be countered or purgered.

nekura

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Did you just tell a Stamina build to slot purge?

I have 16k magicka (Shackle & all tri-stat glyphs & tri-food) on my no-CP stamblade. I’ve slotted purge for years.

No_Division

wheem_ESO wrote: »

wills43b14_ESO wrote: »

So far nothing - I didn't specifically test block, but I don't think that would stop it either... it would probably just reduce ticks

Block generally does nothing at all vs DOTs (other than reduce the initial damage on those abilities that have any).

yea but this is PTS and you should test to everything, even if it ignores their standard rulesets. They LOVE to stealth change things, like how additional block mitigation magically became additive which took random tests on the last PTS cycle to figure out.

wills43b14_ESO

I don't think purge will be viable next patch. These DOTs are EASILY spammable and purge cost went up (so now it's closer to 6k base cost iirc?). Templars are going to be the only classes slotting purge on demand. After testing in duels (yes I realize this isn't ideal world conditions where I can streak away) I realized birb spam is no where near enough healing. I had to slot crit surge as well and I reduced my shields down to just hardened ward. There is no bar space... my bird dmg is also nerfed and a dbl bar slot for a reduced heal.... it's probably fine because it's also a good los, but before saying I should slot purge go test out sustain on PTS. Outhealing the dots for any extended period of time is pretty hard atm.


@Jeezye Degen is dodgeable, I tested that w/ my friend as well.

Jeezye

wills43b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think purge will be viable next patch. These DOTs are EASILY spammable and purge cost went up (so now it's closer to 6k base cost iirc?). Templars are going to be the only classes slotting purge on demand. After testing in duels (yes I realize this isn't ideal world conditions where I can streak away) I realized birb spam is no where near enough healing. I had to slot crit surge as well and I reduced my shields down to just hardened ward. There is no bar space... my bird dmg is also nerfed and a dbl bar slot for a reduced heal.... it's probably fine because it's also a good los, but before saying I should slot purge go test out sustain on PTS. Outhealing the dots for any extended period of time is pretty hard atm.


@Jeezye Degen is dodgeable, I tested that w/ my friend as well.

Purge isn't recessarly strong because you remove 2 negative effects, but because you reduce the durtion of any negative effects by 50%. Basically, you take 50% less damage from dots. However, the effect diminishes to some extend if those dots are applied earlier before expiration (embers e.g.)

wills43b14_ESO

@Jeezye

Purge no longer reduces the duration of negative effects (PTS patch notes 5.1.0). Plus it's probably about 4.5k magicka cost per use to remove 3 effects (added a 3rd effect removal). If anything, cleanse might be better. It will remove negative effects and heal you for up to 30% of your hp.

wills43b14_ESO

Granted cleanse is just too expensive

Nerftheforums

Jeezye wrote: »

wills43b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think purge will be viable next patch. These DOTs are EASILY spammable and purge cost went up (so now it's closer to 6k base cost iirc?). Templars are going to be the only classes slotting purge on demand. After testing in duels (yes I realize this isn't ideal world conditions where I can streak away) I realized birb spam is no where near enough healing. I had to slot crit surge as well and I reduced my shields down to just hardened ward. There is no bar space... my bird dmg is also nerfed and a dbl bar slot for a reduced heal.... it's probably fine because it's also a good los, but before saying I should slot purge go test out sustain on PTS. Outhealing the dots for any extended period of time is pretty hard atm.


@Jeezye Degen is dodgeable, I tested that w/ my friend as well.

Purge isn't recessarly strong because you remove 2 negative effects, but because you reduce the durtion of any negative effects by 50%. Basically, you take 50% less damage from dots. However, the effect diminishes to some extend if those dots are applied earlier before expiration (embers e.g.)

Having 50% less duration does not necessarily mean you take 50% less damage. This is pvp we are talking about, not boss mechanics. As soon as a half brained player sees a dot go down, they re applied it. And since these dots are dirty cheap, it will most likely always happen. Reducing the duration of dots on you doesn't change that much.