Why nerf the already subpar scalebreaker sets

Nemesis7884

why did they nerf the bleed set when testing showed it was ok but neither op nor bis? they already make the sets that looled decent useless before they even come out same with the magicka dot set... yet another round of pointless new sets no one will use, no meta changes, still no build variety - even less now with the ongoing skill standardization...

why even put in the work when its pointless anyhow... i dont understand ZOS logic

Mayrael

Why nerf magblade when everybody agrees it's one of the weakest classes?

Sanguinor2

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

Nemesis7884

any time something remotely interesting comes a long it immediately gets nerfed into the ground and were back to stale plays online... its has just become such a pointless and frustrating cycle... dont even know if im gonna bother downloading the update im so frustrated becaues i was kinda excited before and just dropped hard...

well...i wanted to start fire emblem...maybe im gonna take a long eso break and when i come back they will either have fixed the game or destroyed it

satanio

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

I too find it amusing. One would think that there is some special secret pts server and its special secret feedback channel only for chosen. Because that’s the only way how to understand Martial Knowledge and Zens Redress nerfs.
MK got ignored throughout the patch cycles, no one was crying on forum for the nerf. And then Zen... disappointing.

Olupajmibanan

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

Zen's Redress was supposed to be ticket for a magicka DD in serious trial groups. We couldn't even test how much magicka DD with Zen boosts all the stamina necros, but whatever. If this is how ZoS imagine trial groups, so be it. Praise 8 stamnecros.

Austinseph1

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

Zen's Redress was supposed to be ticket for a magicka DD in serious trial groups. We couldn't even test how much magicka DD with Zen boosts all the stamina necros, but whatever. If this is how ZoS imagine trial groups, so be it. Praise 8 stamnecros.

I mean without the need for healers you will see more than 8... especially in the top 1% runs

nekura

Y'all need some perspective. Just because they reduced effectiveness of something doesn't mean it is a nerf. You sound like you're entitled to this item when it is their job to balance. You can only hope that they have some robust internal testing (lol) before this ever gets near the public.

Nemesis7884

nekura wrote: »

Y'all need some perspective. Just because they reduced effectiveness of something doesn't mean it is a nerf. Y

what are you talking about, yes that is the definition of a nerf besides we can look at the numbers if it makes sense or not- and in case of the bleed set - at the testing done and see if its a nerf and if it was ok before and is nerfed by 30% its useless now... and the light set, all the work for a 5% damage increase? ridicoulos

Sanguinor2

nekura wrote: »

Y'all need some perspective. Just because they reduced effectiveness of something doesn't mean it is a nerf. You sound like you're entitled to this item when it is their job to balance. You can only hope that they have some robust internal testing (lol) before this ever gets near the public.

Well first of all, reducing the effectiveness is literally what a nerf is, you can have a discussion About it being a needed one or not but saying that reducing the strength of something isnt a nerf is just flat out wrong.
Towards your internal testing Thing, if they had robust internal testing then Maybe they would have had zen work atleast once before nerfing it, but the true Beauty of the nerf is that it has never once worked on the pts, you could never even test it and it already got nerfed without any testing being able to be done unless they have internal testing, have the set work there and just release the broken Version of it on the pts for the fun of it which I personally find hard to believe.

Olupajmibanan

Game Designer 1: The new Z'en's Redress set we printed is pretty good. 10% more dps more for whole group and it forces people to think about optimizing their group setups.
Game Designer 2: But, we made a fatal mistake. It's a set designed for magicka DD meaning that one magicka DD will be allowed in trial groups.
Game Designer 1: OH MY....you're right, we can't let that happen. No magicka DD is allowed!!! But we can't just change a set from magicka to stamina. Let's nerf it as it is, people weren't even able to test it since it wasn't working. They won't notice.

WrathOfInnos

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Game Designer 1: The new Z'en's Redress set we printed is pretty good. 10% more dps more for whole group and it forces people to think about optimizing their group setups.
Game Designer 2: But, we made a fatal mistake. It's a set designed for magicka DD meaning that one magicka DD will be allowed in trial groups.
Game Designer 1: OH MY....you're right, we can't let that happen. No magicka DD is allowed!!! But we can't just change a set from magicka to stamina. Let's nerf it as it is, people weren't even able to test it since it wasn't working. They won't notice.

Funny, but even in its initial form it wasn’t really a 10% DPS increase for the group. With perfect uptime it would have been just under 8% in an optimized group, since damage taken debuffs are additive (Maj and Minor Vuln, Engulfing/Tong, Martial Knowledge). It also had a 5s ramp up to apply DoTs, and affected only one enemy. So I agree, it did not need any adjustment, just needed to actually work.

Nemesis7884

zos is literally preventing me from caring or playing new dungeon updates at this point... i guess i wait for dragon hold with new questlines

MLGProPlayer

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

I haven't been keeping up with the PTS patch notes because the first week was such a disaster.

But LOL. This is comedy gold.

Z’en’s Redress will receive some adjustments to how it operates, as well as a number tweak from 2% total damage per DoT to 1%, to reduce its total overall power in a group setting.

What was it's overall power? Let's see the test results! Oh wait...

Nemesis7884

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

I haven't been keeping up with the PTS patch notes because the first week was such a disaster.

But LOL. This is comedy gold.

Z’en’s Redress will receive some adjustments to how it operates, as well as a number tweak from 2% total damage per DoT to 1%, to reduce its total overall power in a group setting.

What was it's overall power? Let's see the test results! Oh wait...

they should have rather turned it into only single player or 4 party members than nerfing it to a point no one will bother

LiquidPony

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

I haven't been keeping up with the PTS patch notes because the first week was such a disaster.

But LOL. This is comedy gold.

Z’en’s Redress will receive some adjustments to how it operates, as well as a number tweak from 2% total damage per DoT to 1%, to reduce its total overall power in a group setting.

What was it's overall power? Let's see the test results! Oh wait...

We'll see what they meant by "some adjustments to how it operates". Perhaps they'll increase the cap or make it proc from all DoTs rather than only single-target DoTs.

Nemesis7884

LiquidPony wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

I haven't been keeping up with the PTS patch notes because the first week was such a disaster.

But LOL. This is comedy gold.

Z’en’s Redress will receive some adjustments to how it operates, as well as a number tweak from 2% total damage per DoT to 1%, to reduce its total overall power in a group setting.

What was it's overall power? Let's see the test results! Oh wait...

We'll see what they meant by "some adjustments to how it operates". Perhaps they'll increase the cap or make it proc from all DoTs rather than only single-target DoTs.

looking at how they made the bleed set useless that was decent before and brought in some NEEDED variety for a 1h/2h build but how they ruined it to the point of uselessness i pretty much can assume that they wrecked this one too because one hand doesnt seem to know what the other one does at zos

I guess the people that create sets and the people that eventually approve or nerf them are not the same people and dont really communicate with one another

WrathOfInnos

LiquidPony wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

I haven't been keeping up with the PTS patch notes because the first week was such a disaster.

But LOL. This is comedy gold.

Z’en’s Redress will receive some adjustments to how it operates, as well as a number tweak from 2% total damage per DoT to 1%, to reduce its total overall power in a group setting.

What was it's overall power? Let's see the test results! Oh wait...

We'll see what they meant by "some adjustments to how it operates". Perhaps they'll increase the cap or make it proc from all DoTs rather than only single-target DoTs.

Yeah, I don't see any adjustments to how it operates. Maybe coming next week? I was finally able to test it on PTS, and confirmed that it works only on single target DoTs.

Works:
- Reach (can use 2 elements for 2 different DoTs)
- Entropy
- Soul Trap
- Scalding Rune
- Barbed Trap
- Burning effect

Does not Work:
- Haunting Curse
- Wall of Elements
- Liquid Lightning

Olupajmibanan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

I haven't been keeping up with the PTS patch notes because the first week was such a disaster.

But LOL. This is comedy gold.

Z’en’s Redress will receive some adjustments to how it operates, as well as a number tweak from 2% total damage per DoT to 1%, to reduce its total overall power in a group setting.

What was it's overall power? Let's see the test results! Oh wait...

We'll see what they meant by "some adjustments to how it operates". Perhaps they'll increase the cap or make it proc from all DoTs rather than only single-target DoTs.

Yeah, I don't see any adjustments to how it operates. Maybe coming next week? I was finally able to test it on PTS, and confirmed that it works only on single target DoTs.

Works:
- Reach (can use 2 elements for 2 different DoTs)
- Entropy
- Soul Trap
- Scalding Rune
- Barbed Trap
- Burning effect

Does not Work:
- Haunting Curse
- Wall of Elements
- Liquid Lightning

It does work on any dot that is visible in target's debuff list. This includes AoE and multi-target dots such as Reflective Light or Engulfing Flames.

Sorc Curse is a DaT (Damage after time), same like Magicka Detonation. DaTs are considered direct damage abilities.

WrathOfInnos

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Honestly I find it far funnier that they nerfed Zens without it even working once so no one could even test it.

I haven't been keeping up with the PTS patch notes because the first week was such a disaster.

But LOL. This is comedy gold.

Z’en’s Redress will receive some adjustments to how it operates, as well as a number tweak from 2% total damage per DoT to 1%, to reduce its total overall power in a group setting.

What was it's overall power? Let's see the test results! Oh wait...

We'll see what they meant by "some adjustments to how it operates". Perhaps they'll increase the cap or make it proc from all DoTs rather than only single-target DoTs.

Yeah, I don't see any adjustments to how it operates. Maybe coming next week? I was finally able to test it on PTS, and confirmed that it works only on single target DoTs.

Works:
- Reach (can use 2 elements for 2 different DoTs)
- Entropy
- Soul Trap
- Scalding Rune
- Barbed Trap
- Burning effect

Does not Work:
- Haunting Curse
- Wall of Elements
- Liquid Lightning

It does work on any dot that is visible in target's debuff list. This includes AoE and multi-target dots such as Reflective Light or Engulfing Flames.

Sorc Curse is a DaT (Damage after time), same like Magicka Detonation. DaTs are considered direct damage abilities.

Yeah, makes sense, that’s what I was expecting. I was just hoping that Haunting Curse at least would work, since it shows up as a debuff, and has multiple ticks over a set duration, effectively a DoT but not classified as one. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that means that Sorcerers and Necromancers do not have any class skills that work with Z’ens. It’s still possible to use, but all 5 DoTs will need to come from other skill lines.