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What Everyone Should Read...The Results of 3-Hour Long PTS PvE Raid: Healer Role At Risk?

  • akl77
    akl77
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    I agree with taking away self heals from DD and tanks. Each role should only play for one purpose so the cooperative team play can work together. If everyone is a hybrid build, it’s no fun and not cooperative and everyone plays the same role basically.
    So ZOS if you really want to touch on healer role, make tank and DD with 0 self heals, except pots.
    As long as healers in eso are still relevant and needed, don’t care how you want to nerf springs or orbs.
    Same goes for tank role and DD role, they should only serves one purpose, don’t allow DD to taunt or have the ability to be able to face tank.
    And don’t allow tanks and healers to do more damages than DDs.
    Edited by akl77 on July 29, 2019 10:00AM
    PS4 pro NA
  • SugaComa
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    See I personally think all class skills should be reworked to fir the three archetypes

    One skill line is
    DD
    Healer
    Tank

    Then make it so those skill lines only work with

    Healer with restro staff equipped
    Tank with sword n board equipped
    DD with any of the remain weapon kits equipped

    Now all builds become two arch types or can spec into a single one for more proficiency,

    Let's see how that plays out for a while
  • Suru
    Suru
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    As a necro healer, I love that the play style will stay the same as with their set of abilities and passives; there are so many things to keep track of and do. Thank you for this video


    Suru
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
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    They should make an AOE HoT that costs a lot, heal like crazy, but delayed. Think time stop.
    PC - EU - France
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  • SaltySudd
    SaltySudd
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    Well said.
    Stop exploiting players.
    PC NA: CP 810+
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  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    SugaComa wrote: »
    See I personally think all class skills should be reworked to fir the three archetypes

    One skill line is
    DD
    Healer
    Tank

    Then make it so those skill lines only work with

    Healer with restro staff equipped
    Tank with sword n board equipped
    DD with any of the remain weapon kits equipped

    Now all builds become two arch types or can spec into a single one for more proficiency,

    Let's see how that plays out for a while

    So... you want to make 2/3rds of class skills unavailable unless you specifically have a resto or S+B equipped? Sorry, but no.
    Alliance/Platform: Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - CP 1,200ish

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  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
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    Aurelle1 wrote: »
    akl77 wrote: »
    I agree with taking away self heals from DD and tanks. Each role should only play for one purpose so the cooperative team play can work together. If everyone is a hybrid build, it’s no fun and not cooperative and everyone plays the same role basically.
    So ZOS if you really want to touch on healer role, make tank and DD with 0 self heals, except pots.
    As long as healers in eso are still relevant and needed, don’t care how you want to nerf springs or orbs.
    Same goes for tank role and DD role, they should only serves one purpose, don’t allow DD to taunt or have the ability to be able to face tank.
    And don’t allow tanks and healers to do more damages than DDs.

    So, you are only considering group play. There are a large number of players who solo. If self-healing is taken away from DD and tanks, then how are solo'ers supposed to heal themselves?

    A DD solo'er shouldn't be forced to carry a resto staff on the back bar just for self-healing, with the subsequent reduction of non-healing abilities normally used.

    And don't say pots please....they are expensive and have a cool-down.
    Actually, its quite easy to create solo content healing.

    HEALZ (General skill) - Heals you for X over Y time. It scales on your highest resource. Only works if you´re not grouped.

    Edited by Saril_Durzam on July 29, 2019 5:47PM
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
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    Harmful? Why? It solves the problem with solo play, and also makes you want a healer with you in dungeoons/trials.

    Most every MMO ive played had few or none selfheals on tanks and DDs. Healing was for healing. And these games were/are kinda successful... ESO has a nice niche of every character has a bit of everything, sure, but lately things have moved to the point that healing is too easy and cheap to achieve for some builds, that makes healers not needed. We need to do "heavy" solutions or it will be fatal for the healer players.
  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    If healing is such a massive problem in PvP (and I don't think it is, just based on the three years I spent in Cyrodil exclusively), then why not reduce all healing in there by 90% via Battle Spirit, except for heals that come from a new Combat Medic skill line added just for PvP that consists of primarily self heals (Let actual healers come up with these please Zos. You obviously do not heal and are pretty out of touch with that part of the game. Thanks but no thanks)? Problem solved. Then we can get down to the business of actually balancing PvE skills without worrying about over buffing PvP healing.
    Xbox NA

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  • BennyButton
    BennyButton
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    I would like to know if the two ZOS members below had even watched this video or read the forum? Would be nice to know why you think this is still OK!

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    @ZOS_Gilliam
    CP810

    Templar healer - Cringe D'addy Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Voice of Reason, Bringer of Light, Extinguisher of Flames
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  • Heady
    Heady
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    I would like to know if the two ZOS members below had even watched this video or read the forum? Would be nice to know why you think this is still OK!

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Gilliam definitely saw it live unless that wasn’t him who subbed to nefas
  • TheNightflame
    TheNightflame
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    Elwendryll wrote: »
    They should make an AOE HoT that costs a lot, heal like crazy, but delayed. Think time stop.

    check old clap heal (hasty prayer)
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    I don't think this can be resolved properly with the way ESO's character system is set up.
    It's a result of Skyrim's dumbing down of attributes and skills that ESO tried to emulate after TESV's success. Scaling both healing and damage with the same stats is just ridiculous from an RPG perspective, but apparently too many numbers and stats make people dizzy or something.

    Maybe a reworked champion system will moderate this somewhat, but I don't have high hopes. Until then, running as a DD in dungeons with vigor or a class heal will suffice.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Elwendryll wrote: »
    They should make an AOE HoT that costs a lot, heal like crazy, but delayed. Think time stop.

    check old clap heal (hasty prayer)

    Check no one used it, check when you need a burst heal, you don't want a cast time. Checkmate.
  • Svenja
    Svenja
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    Elwendryll wrote: »
    They should make an AOE HoT that costs a lot, heal like crazy, but delayed. Think time stop.

    check old clap heal (hasty prayer)

    Yeah, that skill was soo amazing, consuming the magicka and not even healing anyone in case you dared to accidentally barswap during the cast time, and with the absolutely clunky feel that cast-time-skills give you.
    I am sure that's why every healer used it.
    Oh.. wait..
    PC | EU
    retired from ESO

    Svea Rochaud | Templar Healer | AD
    Flawless Conqueror - Immortal Redeemer - Tick-Tock-Tormentor - Gryphon Heart
  • peacenote
    peacenote
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    Yes. Everyone should read this.

    Thank you to all who participated in this test, and especially to @Nefas and @code65536 for the great summary and write-up, respectively.

    I hope the community continues to try and advocate for the healing role which many of us will abandon and miss greatly if these changes go live. :'(

  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    I don't think this can be resolved properly with the way ESO's character system is set up.
    It's a result of Skyrim's dumbing down of attributes and skills that ESO tried to emulate after TESV's success. Scaling both healing and damage with the same stats is just ridiculous from an RPG perspective, but apparently too many numbers and stats make people dizzy or something.

    Maybe a reworked champion system will moderate this somewhat, but I don't have high hopes. Until then, running as a DD in dungeons with vigor or a class heal will suffice.

    I thought the same.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487471/champion-system-overhaul#latest
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • magicsprout
    magicsprout
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    actually i still use hasty prayer for some content. getting the team to the pads on the atro in vaa is a breeze when its laggy
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I agree restoration staff heals should be stronger and considered " rule breaker" because it requires a specific weapon unlike all other heals in the game. Sure some heals are available in other weapon lines but those weapons are primarily for damage.

    Would increasing resto heals by 25% make a different in these hard runs? Give resto skills higher heals then the current standards set forth. I know in PVP areas this would not work so just change the formula for battle spirit. I see a lot of suggestion for applying things in battle spirit but it never seems to happen for apparently a reason. Just make the extra healing given (25%) a passive giving automatically and disable that passive in PVP areas so you don't have to change the Battle spirit formula.

    Personally I don't really have a problem/issue with the way healing is moving. I think that with increased healing it helps the causal and new player. One Tank and 3 dps have been a thing for a long time in dungeons. Even 4 dps has been also. The sky is not falling for healing except in new harder content ZOS has created with the current changes.

    Again I want to state as I have said before vigor should be moved to the fighters guild skill line.

    As one easy part of rewarding resto staff use, the Restoration Staff Expert passive could be massively buffed. It currently gives +15% to healing, conditional on the target's health being below 30%. By way of contrast, the Fortress passive gives +36% to blocking, unconditionally.
  • Bustincapps
    What if ZoS removed spell and weapon damage from the healing done formula? If Zos added powered jewelry enchants stacked with the mundus and powered weapons people would still be able to off heal but make it preferred to have a dedicated spec'd healer.
  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
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    Nefas wrote: »
    Managed to get a roster together for PTS raiding (which is very hard compared to getting a raid together on Live). Really appreciate everyone who came to raid to gather data/feedback for the devs: @RebornZombie @Weps87 @Bojingle @Eon-King @code65536 @xSparrow @Sarah_Flare @mentalyentil @ApocalypseFalcon @Torael_Valdis @Gaggin @Disturbed125


    Too long;didn't watch:

    1) The Healer playstyle regardless of class is simple, straightforward, boring, there is not much room for skill-play nor a semblance of a skill ceiling any more as the playstyle is too generic.

    2) The new playstyle opens up new possibilities, new raid-play, new builds and compositions for healers or raid teams who wish to completely forgo traditional healers.

    3) Healer role further excluded from content if changes as is go live.

    4) Orb Change (multiple synergies off of one orb)/Other Changes (such as Budding Seeds, Barrier, etc) are absolutely fantastic.

    5) Healing is still fine for most content except two fights (vHoF HM execute, vSunspire Lokkestiiz HM)...but the level of healing needed for most content doesn't need to be delegated to actual healers...and you won't really need actual healers to do serious healing as of the PTS Week 3 which only exacerbates #3

    ESOLogs: https://www.esologs.com/reports/CV6ZazcKgbTvjk3X (Ignore Dummy Parse)


    Full VOD:

    Thanks, most interesting.

    As myself and some of my guildies have been discussed, tank/healer hybrids may well become the new meta if changes go live as is. I and my main ESO friend have both now started to create tank/healer hybrids.

    Warden, Templar and Necro lend themselves to tank/heal hybrid role particularly well - no need for a resto staff. 1 bar dedicated to tanking, 1 bar with heals and support, or of course mix it up if you prefer.

    I have mained healers for large spells of my 4 or 5 year ESO journey. I do not know what the answer is to making it a more integral and enjoyable part of the game, or even just closer to how healing used to be required. It really is a shame.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Problem is CPs. If groups tried to do half the nonsense they do with no CPs they’d be screaming to have healers.

    Make stuff harder and new players cant do it at all.

    Once upon a time non-DLC vets were hard for people.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 3, 2019 12:43PM
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  • code65536
    code65536
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Problem is CPs. If groups tried to do half the nonsense they do with no CPs they’d be screaming to have healers.

    Make stuff harder and new players cant do it at all.

    Once upon a time non-DLC vets were hard for people.

    I don't see how that's relevant to any of this.

    Power creep (for which CP is only partially responsible) is matched by content creep. It means that new content is always challenging. And old content becomes increasingly accessible over time. This is a pretty common design feature across many games and isn't a bad thing.
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