So, basically, don't play a magika character?

Cuwen

The entire reason I play any Elder Scrolls game is because I get to play a magical character that gets to cast spells (and steal) in a huge fantasy realm. Apparently now the only way I can properly do this and still compete in the environment and against other players is to be a necromancer? My healing skills suck now (you nerfed earthgore in a prior patch and have nerfed healing springs with this patch), and you've basically made pet sorcs useless. I.... don't... want... to.... play.... a.... NECROMANCER! NO! Just because I don't want to play your latest toy character doesn't mean I should be punished. This upcoming patch is ridiculous. Way to make the rest of us non-necromancer magika toons feel useless. So, why would I play this game now?

LukosCreyden

You should probably test necromancer out before saying it is the only viable magicka class. Let me tell you, even WITH the changes, Magcro is still not OP. I know people really want it to be, so they can complain about it, but it isn't.

It really annoys me when people act like their class has been deleted from the game. Happens every large balancing patch. The sky is not falling. Adapt.

Seraphayel

Saying Petsorc has been made useless while claiming Necromancer (I guess the Magicka version) would be a thing now. Yeah not like Petsorc is at the top and Magcro at the bottom (and U23 won't elevate Magcro to the top either).

Vietfox

Cuwen wrote: »

and you've basically made pet sorcs useless.

Can't take you seriously after reading this.

I mainly play magicka characters (my main is a magblade btw) and i don't really think they are as bad as people say.
Yes, some of them need some improvements, like magdens, but that's it.

Ravena

Isn't magcro still booty?

woe

Sustain is going to hit mag classes extremely hard in this update if they don't change some ***. Magcro already has trouble with the siphon because it's barely anything and now they gutted it too.

Sergykid

if you can't play a game without a specific spell or class, then you don't even deserve to play it.

SidraWillowsky

I made a magden on the PTS and she's hitting around 35k on my live setup (40k) and 38k when I switch things around. I didn't actually feel any sustain issues, but.... netch. Still, I wasn't struggling with resources.

TheShadowScout

Cuwen wrote: »

So, basically, don't play a magika character?

Yeah, riiiight.

There have been times when "stick and skirt" ruled. Now perhaps the other side has a bit of a sunny time... but that too will be nerfed in due time.

Better idea: Forget about what is effective, and just play what you have fun with! I certainly won't stop playing my magica characters just because they are a little "under the weather" with recent rebalances...

Waffennacht

Um well.... APPARENTLY Templars are gonna be all that trials ask for (aside from 11 Necros)

BUT WAIT!

You get a OMG powerful ritual and a make you Unkillable Eclipse...

See...

Some people say magicka is dead, some say not, don't judge anything just yet

Saril_Durzam

If you play overland, you mostly dont care, you wont notice nerfs. Same to normal dungeons if you have lots of cps.

If you play top end content, you alredy weren´t playing magicka. Maybe petsorc, maybe. But probably not.

If you play Pvp, you should be playing Stamina. Ok, you play petsorc to annoy people. That´s right. You can still do it even if your performance will tend to be crappy.

So only people doing "medium" difficulty content: veteran dungeons, normal trials, easier veteran trials... will notice the changes/nerfs.

Can we consider it then a small nerf because it doesn´t affect too many people?

Kawall

Sergykid wrote: »

if you can't play a game without a specific spell or class, then you don't even deserve to play it.

People don't need to "deserve" or "earn" to play the game.

mikemacon

As always, depends on your build and your playstyle.

If you try to shoehorn the current "meta" into the changes on PTS, it won't go well for you.

If however you accept and even embrace the changes, it actually turns out quite well.

For instance, the current "meta" is light attack, rely on healers for buffs, glass canon, adds will die in cleave, etc.

You'll notice a very significant DPS loss as well as sustain and survivability hit.

If however you embrace the changes and take charge of your own sustain and survivability, you'll find you actually do somewhat well.

Example: I run (as a point of reference) Xynode's "Easy Sorc" build as my main. My only change to the build is that I run Breton. Since the build was already balanced for all content, with its own built-in sustain and survivability, I decided to replicate my character on PTS and try it out.

My single-target damage took a little hit, my AOE damage went slightly up. All told, without changing anything from Live (i.e., I didn't adjust CPs, gear, skills, or rotation to account for the changes on PTS), on a 3mil dummy I wound up losing 3-4k deeps, depending on procs.

That's it.

Once the build is updated to reflect the PTS changes, I strongly expect to not only make up for the deeps loss but actually come out ahead.

Then again, the build has always incorporated not only light attacks but two full heavy attacks in the rotation - so resource management has never been a problem, even when Xy added Daedric Mines (a very expensive skill) to the rotation.

I've never had to rely on healers for resource return anyway.

Now, to the question of healers and tanks: Ninja614 mentioned on-stream that he'd been in talks with some of the devs after the patch notes were released. He was also somewhat concerned with what seemed to be sweeping nerfs. After the discussion, and after coming to a clearer understanding of what the devs are after, he adjusted his thinking and is now liking the PTS changes a lot more.

Basically, the devs' intention was never to have healers and tanks be "required" to wear DPS sets so that the deeps can focus entirely on being glass canons. Healers were intended to heal, with passive buffing as a side effect of that, and tanks were intended to tank, debuffing as a side effect of that. When you take IA off of your healers and Alkosh off of your tanks (both of which are DPS sets) and put healing/tanking/sustain sets on instead, things go much more smoothly.

And as for the orbs change: Orbs were always intended to be an option for healers who don't happen to be Templars. They share the same 20-second cooldown, and serve the same function - with the exception that orbs are mobile while shards are stationary. But even with a single orb at a time (a change, by the way, that I have seen actually in action on PTS yesterday and actually like), if your sustain depends on orbs & shards...you're doing it wrong. First off, there are MANY more synergies than those - take them and use them, and make sure you have the Undaunted passive that gives you resource return on any synergy taken. Second - and this is really the sticking point for those who are married to the current "meta" - you're going to have to incorporate heavy attacks into your rotation - or use recovery glyphs, or use a sustain set...or a combination thereof.

Yes, your overall deeps might drop - which is also part of the point. The insane DPS numbers that you can currently get are ridiculous. The dungeons and trials - including vet hardmodes and speed runs (yes, I'm talking vCR and vAS) don't "require" 80+k to complete. Keep in mind that vMOL hard mode was completed when 30k DPS was considered godly. The devs have not tuned the content to "require" stratospherically high deeps numbers. You will have to engage mechanics more since burn potential is slightly lowered, but quite honestly that's not the end of the world.

Anyway, having actually played on PTS yesterday myself, I have to say it's not only not the end of the world, but I can see where the devs are going with this...and I like the direction.

YMMV.

Kel

mikemacon wrote: »

As always, depends on your build and your playstyle.

If you try to shoehorn the current "meta" into the changes on PTS, it won't go well for you.

If however you accept and even embrace the changes, it actually turns out quite well.

For instance, the current "meta" is light attack, rely on healers for buffs, glass canon, adds will die in cleave, etc.

You'll notice a very significant DPS loss as well as sustain and survivability hit.

If however you embrace the changes and take charge of your own sustain and survivability, you'll find you actually do somewhat well.

Example: I run (as a point of reference) Xynode's "Easy Sorc" build as my main. My only change to the build is that I run Breton. Since the build was already balanced for all content, with its own built-in sustain and survivability, I decided to replicate my character on PTS and try it out.

My single-target damage took a little hit, my AOE damage went slightly up. All told, without changing anything from Live (i.e., I didn't adjust CPs, gear, skills, or rotation to account for the changes on PTS), on a 3mil dummy I wound up losing 3-4k deeps, depending on procs.

That's it.

Once the build is updated to reflect the PTS changes, I strongly expect to not only make up for the deeps loss but actually come out ahead.

Then again, the build has always incorporated not only light attacks but two full heavy attacks in the rotation - so resource management has never been a problem, even when Xy added Daedric Mines (a very expensive skill) to the rotation.

I've never had to rely on healers for resource return anyway.

Now, to the question of healers and tanks: Ninja614 mentioned on-stream that he'd been in talks with some of the devs after the patch notes were released. He was also somewhat concerned with what seemed to be sweeping nerfs. After the discussion, and after coming to a clearer understanding of what the devs are after, he adjusted his thinking and is now liking the PTS changes a lot more.

Basically, the devs' intention was never to have healers and tanks be "required" to wear DPS sets so that the deeps can focus entirely on being glass canons. Healers were intended to heal, with passive buffing as a side effect of that, and tanks were intended to tank, debuffing as a side effect of that. When you take IA off of your healers and Alkosh off of your tanks (both of which are DPS sets) and put healing/tanking/sustain sets on instead, things go much more smoothly.

And as for the orbs change: Orbs were always intended to be an option for healers who don't happen to be Templars. They share the same 20-second cooldown, and serve the same function - with the exception that orbs are mobile while shards are stationary. But even with a single orb at a time (a change, by the way, that I have seen actually in action on PTS yesterday and actually like), if your sustain depends on orbs & shards...you're doing it wrong. First off, there are MANY more synergies than those - take them and use them, and make sure you have the Undaunted passive that gives you resource return on any synergy taken. Second - and this is really the sticking point for those who are married to the current "meta" - you're going to have to incorporate heavy attacks into your rotation - or use recovery glyphs, or use a sustain set...or a combination thereof.

Yes, your overall deeps might drop - which is also part of the point. The insane DPS numbers that you can currently get are ridiculous. The dungeons and trials - including vet hardmodes and speed runs (yes, I'm talking vCR and vAS) don't "require" 80+k to complete. Keep in mind that vMOL hard mode was completed when 30k DPS was considered godly. The devs have not tuned the content to "require" stratospherically high deeps numbers. You will have to engage mechanics more since burn potential is slightly lowered, but quite honestly that's not the end of the world.

Anyway, having actually played on PTS yesterday myself, I have to say it's not only not the end of the world, but I can see where the devs are going with this...and I like the direction.

YMMV.

Oh no, you DID NOT come into this forum speaking sense and logic! AW HELL NAH !!

But seriously, great points.
I tried healing in this game. Done it successfully in many other MMOs. Was even invited into the healer discord.

I was soon disillusioned with healing in ESO, pretty quickly. Because, I wasn't expected to be a healer, I was asked to be a bard. Someone providing buffs and sustain for others, while actual healing came as a distant second. So, even though I was keeping everyone alive and doing some dps, I was getting massive complaints because I "wasn't doing it right". Sorry..I signed up to be a healer to.....heal. I know, absolutely shocking concept.

I'm all for letting tanks be tanks, and healers being healers. DPS might drop, but then again all I hear about here is how power creep is so bad.

Well, looks like Zos is trying to fix that. Even if some meta players will have to adjust. And, unpopular opinion aside, I like that.

Jhalin

Kel wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

As always, depends on your build and your playstyle.

If you try to shoehorn the current "meta" into the changes on PTS, it won't go well for you.

If however you accept and even embrace the changes, it actually turns out quite well.

For instance, the current "meta" is light attack, rely on healers for buffs, glass canon, adds will die in cleave, etc.

You'll notice a very significant DPS loss as well as sustain and survivability hit.

If however you embrace the changes and take charge of your own sustain and survivability, you'll find you actually do somewhat well.

Example: I run (as a point of reference) Xynode's "Easy Sorc" build as my main. My only change to the build is that I run Breton. Since the build was already balanced for all content, with its own built-in sustain and survivability, I decided to replicate my character on PTS and try it out.

My single-target damage took a little hit, my AOE damage went slightly up. All told, without changing anything from Live (i.e., I didn't adjust CPs, gear, skills, or rotation to account for the changes on PTS), on a 3mil dummy I wound up losing 3-4k deeps, depending on procs.

That's it.

Once the build is updated to reflect the PTS changes, I strongly expect to not only make up for the deeps loss but actually come out ahead.

Then again, the build has always incorporated not only light attacks but two full heavy attacks in the rotation - so resource management has never been a problem, even when Xy added Daedric Mines (a very expensive skill) to the rotation.

I've never had to rely on healers for resource return anyway.

Now, to the question of healers and tanks: Ninja614 mentioned on-stream that he'd been in talks with some of the devs after the patch notes were released. He was also somewhat concerned with what seemed to be sweeping nerfs. After the discussion, and after coming to a clearer understanding of what the devs are after, he adjusted his thinking and is now liking the PTS changes a lot more.

Basically, the devs' intention was never to have healers and tanks be "required" to wear DPS sets so that the deeps can focus entirely on being glass canons. Healers were intended to heal, with passive buffing as a side effect of that, and tanks were intended to tank, debuffing as a side effect of that. When you take IA off of your healers and Alkosh off of your tanks (both of which are DPS sets) and put healing/tanking/sustain sets on instead, things go much more smoothly.

And as for the orbs change: Orbs were always intended to be an option for healers who don't happen to be Templars. They share the same 20-second cooldown, and serve the same function - with the exception that orbs are mobile while shards are stationary. But even with a single orb at a time (a change, by the way, that I have seen actually in action on PTS yesterday and actually like), if your sustain depends on orbs & shards...you're doing it wrong. First off, there are MANY more synergies than those - take them and use them, and make sure you have the Undaunted passive that gives you resource return on any synergy taken. Second - and this is really the sticking point for those who are married to the current "meta" - you're going to have to incorporate heavy attacks into your rotation - or use recovery glyphs, or use a sustain set...or a combination thereof.

Yes, your overall deeps might drop - which is also part of the point. The insane DPS numbers that you can currently get are ridiculous. The dungeons and trials - including vet hardmodes and speed runs (yes, I'm talking vCR and vAS) don't "require" 80+k to complete. Keep in mind that vMOL hard mode was completed when 30k DPS was considered godly. The devs have not tuned the content to "require" stratospherically high deeps numbers. You will have to engage mechanics more since burn potential is slightly lowered, but quite honestly that's not the end of the world.

Anyway, having actually played on PTS yesterday myself, I have to say it's not only not the end of the world, but I can see where the devs are going with this...and I like the direction.

YMMV.

Oh no, you DID NOT come into this forum speaking sense and logic! AW HELL NAH !!

But seriously, great points.
I tried healing in this game. Done it successfully in many other MMOs. Was even invited into the healer discord.

I was soon disillusioned with healing in ESO, pretty quickly. Because, I wasn't expected to be a healer, I was asked to be a bard. Someone providing buffs and sustain for others, while actual healing came as a distant second. So, even though I was keeping everyone alive and doing some dps, I was getting massive complaints because I "wasn't doing it right". Sorry..I signed up to be a healer to.....heal. I know, absolutely shocking concept.

I'm all for letting tanks be tanks, and healers being healers. DPS might drop, but then again all I hear about here is how power creep is so bad.

Well, looks like Zos is trying to fix that. Even if some meta players will have to adjust. And, unpopular opinion aside, I like that.

Straight healing is not useful in ESO. There’s no place for someone that doesn’t offer anything offheals can’t do just the same

These changes do not make a healbot more useful, it makes them less useful and even less wanted if anything

Skwor

Jhalin wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

As always, depends on your build and your playstyle.

If you try to shoehorn the current "meta" into the changes on PTS, it won't go well for you.

If however you accept and even embrace the changes, it actually turns out quite well.

For instance, the current "meta" is light attack, rely on healers for buffs, glass canon, adds will die in cleave, etc.

You'll notice a very significant DPS loss as well as sustain and survivability hit.

If however you embrace the changes and take charge of your own sustain and survivability, you'll find you actually do somewhat well.

Example: I run (as a point of reference) Xynode's "Easy Sorc" build as my main. My only change to the build is that I run Breton. Since the build was already balanced for all content, with its own built-in sustain and survivability, I decided to replicate my character on PTS and try it out.

My single-target damage took a little hit, my AOE damage went slightly up. All told, without changing anything from Live (i.e., I didn't adjust CPs, gear, skills, or rotation to account for the changes on PTS), on a 3mil dummy I wound up losing 3-4k deeps, depending on procs.

That's it.

Once the build is updated to reflect the PTS changes, I strongly expect to not only make up for the deeps loss but actually come out ahead.

Then again, the build has always incorporated not only light attacks but two full heavy attacks in the rotation - so resource management has never been a problem, even when Xy added Daedric Mines (a very expensive skill) to the rotation.

I've never had to rely on healers for resource return anyway.

Now, to the question of healers and tanks: Ninja614 mentioned on-stream that he'd been in talks with some of the devs after the patch notes were released. He was also somewhat concerned with what seemed to be sweeping nerfs. After the discussion, and after coming to a clearer understanding of what the devs are after, he adjusted his thinking and is now liking the PTS changes a lot more.

Basically, the devs' intention was never to have healers and tanks be "required" to wear DPS sets so that the deeps can focus entirely on being glass canons. Healers were intended to heal, with passive buffing as a side effect of that, and tanks were intended to tank, debuffing as a side effect of that. When you take IA off of your healers and Alkosh off of your tanks (both of which are DPS sets) and put healing/tanking/sustain sets on instead, things go much more smoothly.

And as for the orbs change: Orbs were always intended to be an option for healers who don't happen to be Templars. They share the same 20-second cooldown, and serve the same function - with the exception that orbs are mobile while shards are stationary. But even with a single orb at a time (a change, by the way, that I have seen actually in action on PTS yesterday and actually like), if your sustain depends on orbs & shards...you're doing it wrong. First off, there are MANY more synergies than those - take them and use them, and make sure you have the Undaunted passive that gives you resource return on any synergy taken. Second - and this is really the sticking point for those who are married to the current "meta" - you're going to have to incorporate heavy attacks into your rotation - or use recovery glyphs, or use a sustain set...or a combination thereof.

Yes, your overall deeps might drop - which is also part of the point. The insane DPS numbers that you can currently get are ridiculous. The dungeons and trials - including vet hardmodes and speed runs (yes, I'm talking vCR and vAS) don't "require" 80+k to complete. Keep in mind that vMOL hard mode was completed when 30k DPS was considered godly. The devs have not tuned the content to "require" stratospherically high deeps numbers. You will have to engage mechanics more since burn potential is slightly lowered, but quite honestly that's not the end of the world.

Anyway, having actually played on PTS yesterday myself, I have to say it's not only not the end of the world, but I can see where the devs are going with this...and I like the direction.

YMMV.

Oh no, you DID NOT come into this forum speaking sense and logic! AW HELL NAH !!

But seriously, great points.
I tried healing in this game. Done it successfully in many other MMOs. Was even invited into the healer discord.

I was soon disillusioned with healing in ESO, pretty quickly. Because, I wasn't expected to be a healer, I was asked to be a bard. Someone providing buffs and sustain for others, while actual healing came as a distant second. So, even though I was keeping everyone alive and doing some dps, I was getting massive complaints because I "wasn't doing it right". Sorry..I signed up to be a healer to.....heal. I know, absolutely shocking concept.

I'm all for letting tanks be tanks, and healers being healers. DPS might drop, but then again all I hear about here is how power creep is so bad.

Well, looks like Zos is trying to fix that. Even if some meta players will have to adjust. And, unpopular opinion aside, I like that.

Straight healing is not useful in ESO. There’s no place for someone that doesn’t offer anything offheals can’t do just the same

These changes do not make a healbot more useful, it makes them less useful and even less wanted if anything

And there lies the problem, a game that is basically nothing but a DPS fest is boring as ***! We desperately need real class diversity in their roles, not 6 DPS classes whose only difference is the name assigned to the DPS ability being rotated on their bar.

Seraphayel

@mikemacon

Great post! Yet I fear many are so obsessed with their current build and playstyle that any change to them will be seen as the end of the world (as we are already witnessing with the Grand Healing / Necrotic Orb changes). I wish players would be a bit more open for changes and an holistic view of the game outside of their comfortable bubble.

Flaaklypa

Magicka is meta in pve right now

danno8

frontend wrote: »

Magicka is meta in pve right now

Dude, you necroe'd this post about necro from over a year ago.

Fur_like_snow

Earth gore is a monster set not a healing skill. You shouldn’t be relying on earth gore to heal yourself especially when you’re a sorc with crit surge. Pet sorc is a build used by new players to clear vMA the first time other than that it’s a meme. You chose one of the best and easiest classes to play as magicka DD. [snip]

[Edit for Bait.]

NordSwordnBoard

danno8 wrote: »

frontend wrote: »

Magicka is meta in pve right now

Dude, you necroe'd this post about necro from over a year ago.

Thread Necromancy is META on the forum

Wuuffyy

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Earth gore is a monster set not a healing skill. You shouldn’t be relying on earth gore to heal yourself especially when you’re a sorc with crit surge. Pet sorc is a build used by new players to clear vMA the first time other than that it’s a meme. You chose one of the best and easiest classes to play as magicka DD. Sounds like a L2P issue.

Glad you’re replying to this. If they haven’t figured out this since the year and a few months ago that it was posted on. Then they didn’t really need the information.

scorpius2k1

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

frontend wrote: »

Magicka is meta in pve right now

Dude, you necroe'd this post about necro from over a year ago.

Thread Necromancy is META on the forum

It certainly does proc quite often doesn't it? From what I understand some don't look at the dates before commenting which pretty much guarantees a 100% uptime each tic.

INB4 ZoS nerfs this.

Fur_like_snow

Oh geez I didn’t even see the date this thread was created.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,
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