Mist Form changes — why nerf Magplar mobility?

TheYKcid

From the v5.1.0 notes:

Elusive Mist (morph): Fixed an issue where the Major Expedition from this ability would persist even after casting the channeled effect.

Has anyone ever considered this functionality even remotely overperforming?

• It only provides 4s of Major Expedition at maximum—just like every other standardised Major Expedition skill.
• Cancelling the channel means you lose the mitigation, leaving you with nothing else besides the speed bonus.
• This is an extremely costly source of Major Expedition—it's a whopping 4693 mag, even after deducting the cost reduction of stage 4 Vampirism.
• Necessitates being a vamp—highly risky with the number of magDKs and Dawnbreaker users around.

Magplar is already a relatively immobile class, and is often shoehorned into vamp/Mistform because the class toolkit fares poorly against sustained pressure.

Why would you restrict its access to Major Expedition even further?

templesus

Lol use RaT. Mist form is so two patches ago.

Ashanne

talking about unasked for nerf to Vampires (noone wants to be one these days because molten whip is balanced)...why the efff did they increase the cost of bat swarm? WHY?
if anything vampires need some buffs not nerfs

del9

templesus wrote: »

Lol use RaT. Mist form is so two patches ago.

The immunity on RAT is so short that it is hardly useful for many characters.

Mistform should retain the MajExp through canceling, it would keep it on or closer to par with the rest of the expedition skills.

Glory

My assumption would be that it is an unintended mechanic. If it was never intended to give major expedition when cancelled, that would be why it was "fixed."

Obviously it's a decrease in the skills kit, but if it wasn't intended that would be the justification.

TheYKcid

del9 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol use RaT. Mist form is so two patches ago.

The immunity on RAT is so short that it is hardly useful for many characters.

Mistform should retain the MajExp through canceling, it would keep it on or closer to par with the rest of the expedition skills.

Exactly. RAT also doesn't help you drop pressure unless LOS just happens to be nearby, which obviously isn't something you can rely on.

Blockcancelled Mist Form is the most expensive way to get 4s of maj. Expedition, with zero secondary bonuses to boot. I really can't fathom how anyone on the combat team took issue with that.

jcm2606

TheYKcid wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol use RaT. Mist form is so two patches ago.

The immunity on RAT is so short that it is hardly useful for many characters.

Mistform should retain the MajExp through canceling, it would keep it on or closer to par with the rest of the expedition skills.

Exactly. RAT also doesn't help you drop pressure unless LOS just happens to be nearby, which obviously isn't something you can rely on.

Blockcancelled Mist Form is the most expensive way to get 4s of maj. Expedition, with zero secondary bonuses to boot. I really can't fathom how anyone on the combat team took issue with that.

You're really questioning the dev team after they hotfixed a bug that made being stuck in combat more bearable?

Cinbri

If simply - it was bug that got fixed.

Solariken

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I'm pretty much ok with it because I hate fighting people who crutch on the skill in general, and magplars are the worst abusers. Even with the change it will still be OP-ish on magplar because of the resource management gimmicks it lets them get away with.

Sanguinor2

Wait, magplar had mobility?

akray21

Literally the only reason I slot mist form on my magplar healer is to cancel it for the major expedition and sprint. It's very costly to do this in regard to both magicka and stamina cost

NBrookus

It's not a make or break for me, but I used it a lot and it does feel like a completely pointless nerf. I really don't like RaT as a substitute.

grannas211

if only they would have kept the RAT proposed changes before they nerfed during the last pts cycle.

Vercingetorix

Um, you're using Vampire? I think a more important question would be why is OP not using Race Against Time...

Minno

Mist/vamp is eh now that Vulnerability made mist 50% against dk/fire destro sorcs.

Rat is superior because it let's you burst Sprint/block which is better survivability. Anyone that doesn't know that is playing a Templar build that outdated lol. And you front bar rat; minor force is like 200 esp and you'll be able to cast 3 dots then reapply for jabs casting.

wheem_ESO

Minno wrote: »

Mist/vamp is eh now that Vulnerability made mist 50% against dk/fire destro sorcs.

Rat is superior because it let's you burst Sprint/block which is better survivability. Anyone that doesn't know that is playing a Templar build that outdated lol. And you front bar rat; minor force is like 200 esp and you'll be able to cast 3 dots then reapply for jabs casting.

I guess that helps explain eating a 4k Molten Whip while Mist Formed in a BG.

'Course, with the changes to Destructive Clench/Reach, Magicka Necromancer's CC and gear options are severely limited without Vampirism. The class Totem isn't really worth mentioning as a reliable stun, so you're left with either a 15m Flame Clench stun (foregoing the extra damage on Blastbones from Lightning Staves, and DOT from Destructive Reach), or being a Vampire and using Drain.

Personally, I think it's past time to cut down on the Vampirism drawbacks in PvP, even if it means reducing Mist Form's damage reduction or something.

Rianai

ALL SPEED MUST BE NERFED!

ZOS since Murkmire ...

Lylith

Rianai wrote: »

ALL SPEED MUST BE NERFED!

ZOS since Murkmire ...

have to slow things down so those flashy new animations have enough overhead to fire reliably without <cough> causing <cough>lag.

TheYKcid

Not addressed in PTS v5.1.1

Nirnroot420

Minno wrote: »

Mist/vamp is eh now that Vulnerability made mist 50% against dk/fire destro sorcs.

Rat is superior because it let's you burst Sprint/block which is better survivability. Anyone that doesn't know that is playing a Templar build that outdated lol. And you front bar rat; minor force is like 200 esp and you'll be able to cast 3 dots then reapply for jabs casting.

Truth. I dropped vamp like a bad habit day one of Elsweyr. RaT is a far better option because it allows for attacking/healing upon retreat while mist form just makes you a slightly mobile turtle, not to mention you can keep receiving heals and regenning resources as opposed to mist form. I kind of cringe everytime I see a magplar running vamp nowadays, the aforementioned disadvantages on top of being melted by dawnbreakers just doesn't jive well with the current meta.