Orbs and their value to non-templar healers

KatySpirit

This seems to be a bit overlooked... but if this goes live no one will allow wardens, necromancers, nightblades, sorcerers, etc. to heal in their trials. Orbs being unlimited allowed every class to return resources to at least 6 people at a time so both healers could cover a full group. If orbs is limited to one at a time, it will be required templar healers only, since they can at least give TWO people resources because of shards. I thought you wanted all classes to play all roles? Well, if Templar can return two times as many resources as any other class, it will be the only healer. Please reconsider this... other classes offer different benefits as healers, and this is going to be so boring.

Altyrann

KatySpirit wrote: »

This seems to be a bit overlooked... but if this goes live no one will allow wardens, necromancers, nightblades, sorcerers, etc. to heal in their trials. Orbs being unlimited allowed every class to return resources to at least 6 people at a time so both healers could cover a full group. If orbs is limited to one at a time, it will be required templar healers only, since they can at least give TWO people resources because of shards. I thought you wanted all classes to play all roles? Well, if Templar can return two times as many resources as any other class, it will be the only healer. Please reconsider this... other classes offer different benefits as healers, and this is going to be so boring.

I'm wondering if the changes overall will mean healers much more closely tied to stacks. If combat prayer or other limited range abilities become default AoE spammables you might end up very close, at which point you can almost spam orbs again because travel time will be near zero.

phantasmalD

KatySpirit wrote: »

If orbs is limited to one at a time, it will be required templar healers only, since they can at least give TWO people resources because of shards.

Oh yeah, cause while the synergy is shared between the two skills you can still have an orb and a shard going simultaneously.

Like seriously, the synergy opportunities was already the biggest reason templars were still number 1, class synergy availabilities and powers absolutely need to be improved if they even want to think about gutting orbs.

KatySpirit

phantasmalD wrote: »

KatySpirit wrote: »

If orbs is limited to one at a time, it will be required templar healers only, since they can at least give TWO people resources because of shards.

Oh yeah, cause while the synergy is shared between the two skills you can still have an orb and a shard going simultaneously.

Like seriously, the synergy opportunities was already the biggest reason templars were still number 1, class synergy availabilities and powers absolutely need to be improved if they even want to think about gutting orbs.

I meant that two different people can get resources from the templars while it is going to be one person at a time for other classes. You have to wait until that orb reaches its target. Slowly. Very slowly. I worry about the tank never getting the orb.

But I do agree, yes, we really need to see more improvements to synergies (more synergies in general maybe). Can't even give a class synergy on a NB cause that's a waste of ultimate, for example, they don't have a regular ability synergy. DK non-ulti synergy doesn't work on bosses so that's annoying too.

DisgracefulMind

This is a major issue, but also with the spring nerf Templar ritual will be even more desired in raids, not just for the synergy, which really pushes other healers out as well.

majulook

I foresee Templar healers becoming more valued to a group than others.

Aznarb

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This is a major issue, but also with the spring nerf Templar ritual will be even more desired in raids, not just for the synergy, which really pushes other healers out as well.

Not really.
Warden is the best healer after this patch, templar is not even close.
Budding seed is now the best spammable in the game for healing hard content for a cheap amount and high value.
Also cheap healing ultimate is also one of the best now.

They're is no way horn still BiS after these change if you wanna pass through very hard content w/o the stack of spring.

DisgracefulMind

Aznarb wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This is a major issue, but also with the spring nerf Templar ritual will be even more desired in raids, not just for the synergy, which really pushes other healers out as well.

Not really.
Warden is the best healer after this patch, templar is not even close.
Budding seed is now the best spammable in the game for healing hard content for a cheap amount and high value.
Also cheap healing ultimate is also one of the best now.

They're is no way horn still BiS after these change if you wanna pass through very hard content w/o the stack of spring.

I don't agree with you at all. Budding Seed is powerful, yes, but HoTs are king in PvE raid healing. And Templar can have HoTs, a purify synergy, quick access to shard resources, and an aoe burst heal through clap heal.

Aznarb

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This is a major issue, but also with the spring nerf Templar ritual will be even more desired in raids, not just for the synergy, which really pushes other healers out as well.

Not really.
Warden is the best healer after this patch, templar is not even close.
Budding seed is now the best spammable in the game for healing hard content for a cheap amount and high value.
Also cheap healing ultimate is also one of the best now.

They're is no way horn still BiS after these change if you wanna pass through very hard content w/o the stack of spring.

I don't agree with you at all. Budding Seed is powerful, yes, but HoTs are king in PvE raid healing. And Templar can have HoTs, a purify synergy, quick access to shard resources, and an aoe burst heal through clap heal.

GL to spam a 7k+ mana cost ability with short aoe in execute phase.
HoT are not a thing anymore.
Grand healing is to weak, the ritual same, the HoT meta was around Grand healing stack. It's not a thing anymore.
Budding seed is large, cheap (2k+) and give huge healing + synergies.

Even limited at 1, orb will still a BiS for the heal it give. With the nerf every healing source are welcome.
shard would be nice for aim at Tank, but with communication and placement you can do the same with Orb, not a problem to my eyes.

If you read the whole patch, you can see that HoT meta is finish and the sustain will get lower, now it's about reactive healing and that why most healer are worried when they look at vet hm trial content.

I play all healer but NB was my favorite one, and now, I don't see any option to make it good enough to play this role.. Same for Sorc, DK and Templar (stil better than the 3 other but not enough)
In other side, my new warden build is ready for test.

Edit :
Also don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I own the only truth, that just how I see the future of this game after these change.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but we can't really know for sure before testing seriously.

DisgracefulMind

Aznarb wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This is a major issue, but also with the spring nerf Templar ritual will be even more desired in raids, not just for the synergy, which really pushes other healers out as well.

Not really.
Warden is the best healer after this patch, templar is not even close.
Budding seed is now the best spammable in the game for healing hard content for a cheap amount and high value.
Also cheap healing ultimate is also one of the best now.

They're is no way horn still BiS after these change if you wanna pass through very hard content w/o the stack of spring.

I don't agree with you at all. Budding Seed is powerful, yes, but HoTs are king in PvE raid healing. And Templar can have HoTs, a purify synergy, quick access to shard resources, and an aoe burst heal through clap heal.

GL to spam a 7k+ mana cost ability with short aoe in execute phase.
HoT are not a thing anymore.
Grand healing is to weak, the ritual same, the HoT meta was around Grand healing stack. It's not a thing anymore.
Budding seed is large, cheap (2k+) and give huge healing + synergies.

Even limited at 1, orb will still a BiS for the heal it give. With the nerf every healing source are welcome.
shard would be nice for aim at Tank, but with communication and placement you can do the same with Orb, not a problem to my eyes.

If you read the whole patch, you can see that HoT meta is finish and the sustain will get lower, now it's about reactive healing and that why most healer are worried when they look at vet hm trial content.

I play all healer but NB was my favorite one, and now, I don't see any option to make it good enough to play this role.. Same for Sorc, DK and Templar (stil better than the 3 other but not enough)
In other side, my new warden build is ready for test.

Edit :
Also don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I own the only truth, that just how I see the future of this game after these change.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but we can't really know for sure before testing seriously.

I'm not disagreeing that the HoT meta is dead for healing, but that means any HoT that is good, and ritual got a huge buff, is going to be very valuable.

Budding Seeds will be very valuable as well, but it isn't reactive at all with the double cast you need to activate it, is my point.

I think Templar and Warden sit in good spots for healing, maybe Necro. The rest, Bye.

Aznarb

DisgracefulMind wrote:

I'm not disagreeing that the HoT meta is dead for healing, but that means any HoT that is good, and ritual got a huge buff, is going to be very valuable.

Budding Seeds will be very valuable as well, but it isn't reactive at all with the double cast you need to activate it, is my point.

I think Templar and Warden sit in good spots for healing, maybe Necro. The rest, Bye.

Yeah this duo is still gonna be decent.
And I agree, bye diversity at healing role..

KatySpirit

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think Templar and Warden sit in good spots for healing, maybe Necro. The rest, Bye.

And that's the problem.

Lilly_Elessa

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think Templar and Warden sit in good spots for healing, maybe Necro. The rest, Bye.

This is pretty much my thoughts. The gap between those three classes and the others was already pretty strong, but you could sort of bridge it if you were determined. And I know a lot of very determined Sorc healers, that are about to find their mains unplayable.
Personally, I have a healer of every class except for DK, because DK offers so little (and then you're often enough getting what they do have from the tank). I already shelved my NB healer after Nerfmire, because he offered too little to the group. I'm going to have to shelf my healing and mag dps Sorcs after this patch...

My much, much bigger worry is that groups are likely to start just running 10 DPS and making people heal/sustain themselves though. Which also looks very likely, given how badly everything that an actual dedicated healer does has been nerfed. And how dungeons already often try to do exactly that. And other games (one way or another) do exactly that.

akl77

You can still spam orbs as long as people are quick to pops them. Templar won’t be top healer bcos warden mushrooms burst heal that heals 6 people is better than Templar burst heal x 3 when HoTs of spring and orbs no longer viable next patch, those 6 people bursts heal skills like combat prayer and mushrooms will have to act as HoTs for strong DoTs trials like VSO. Templar don’t have strong 6 people heals that’s sustainably cheap like warden mushrooms.

DisgracefulMind

akl77 wrote: »

You can still spam orbs as long as people are quick to pops them. Templar won’t be top healer bcos warden mushrooms burst heal that heals 6 people is better than Templar burst heal x 3 when HoTs of spring and orbs no longer viable next patch, those 6 people bursts heal skills like combat prayer and mushrooms will have to act as HoTs for strong DoTs trials like VSO. Templar don’t have strong 6 people heals that’s sustainably cheap like warden mushrooms.

You're ignoring the overall utility for Templar, though, and it has much more than Warden. Warden/Templar duo will probably be the go-to, which is great for Warden and all, but also kills the "play how you want" thing for other healing classes.