This game needs incentives for people to play tanks and healers.

Jeremy

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

And I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as well. So that's neither here nor there.

Also, why are you not using the group finder? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. That could be a solution for you.

Actually no. My opinion has been stated here by other tanks here in the forums but most find it pointless to repeat themselves in threads like this.

It is funny how you actually acknowledge my comments of unskilled players being the reasons half decent tanks avoid the GF by somehow blaming my tank build for their low dps and difficulty to handle mechanics. All that does is show an acknowledgement of what I said is accurate. Thanks.

What ever it was you think I did that you are thanking me for, you are welcome.

idk

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

And I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as well. So that's neither here nor there.

Also, why are you not using the group finder? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. That could be a solution for you.

Actually no. My opinion has been stated here by other tanks here in the forums but most find it pointless to repeat themselves in threads like this.

It is funny how you actually acknowledge my comments of unskilled players being the reasons half decent tanks avoid the GF by somehow blaming my tank build for their low dps and difficulty to handle mechanics. All that does is show an acknowledgement of what I said is accurate. Thanks.

What ever it was you think I did that you are thanking me for, you are welcome.

Great because you know the issue unskilled players is not my tank build as that would be pretty odd to actually blame me for them being bad players.

kongkim

Just play this tank build and its fun to tank again

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132648

Its not for trails. But other then that it works well and punce out some finde damage also.

mobicera

There are plenty of tanks out there.
We just don't use the group finder...
Why should I spend 45 mins in vcoa1 buffing the group with yolna and debuffing with torug's and an infused staff, when I can find a guild group or group of friends and do it in 10 mins or less?
Or I stack up mobs nicely and someone dragon leaps...
Or taunts bosses off me with an ice staff...
Or tells me my fully selfless support tank can't tank vet wayrest 1 as I don't have 50k HP...
I could go on and on
No I think I will continue to tank daily with friends and guildies...

idk

mobicera wrote: »

There are plenty of tanks out there.
We just don't use the group finder...
Why should I spend 45 mins in vcoa1 buffing the group with yolna and debuffing with torug's and an infused staff, when I can find a guild group or group of friends and do it in 10 mins or less?
Or I stack up mobs nicely and someone dragon leaps...
Or taunts bosses off me with an ice staff...
Or tells me my fully selfless support tank can't tank vet wayrest 1 as I don't have 50k HP...
I could go on and on
No I think I will continue to tank daily with friends and guildies...

Exactly what I was saying earlier and somehow got the comment that it was due to my bad tank build the group was unskilled.

Join a guild you can form groups from or start tanking. Everyone can tank on any character. As stated earlier I have tanked with DPS CP and merely changed armor and skills. Be the solution.

Jeremy

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

And I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as well. So that's neither here nor there.

Also, why are you not using the group finder? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. That could be a solution for you.

Actually no. My opinion has been stated here by other tanks here in the forums but most find it pointless to repeat themselves in threads like this.

It is funny how you actually acknowledge my comments of unskilled players being the reasons half decent tanks avoid the GF by somehow blaming my tank build for their low dps and difficulty to handle mechanics. All that does is show an acknowledgement of what I said is accurate. Thanks.

What ever it was you think I did that you are thanking me for, you are welcome.

Great because you know the issue unskilled players is not my tank build as that would be pretty odd to actually blame me for them being bad players.

It would almost be as odd as blaming my character build for what I said. So that's good advice. Do unto others as you would... etc.

Jeremy

mobicera wrote: »

There are plenty of tanks out there.
We just don't use the group finder...
Why should I spend 45 mins in vcoa1 buffing the group with yolna and debuffing with torug's and an infused staff, when I can find a guild group or group of friends and do it in 10 mins or less?
Or I stack up mobs nicely and someone dragon leaps...
Or taunts bosses off me with an ice staff...
Or tells me my fully selfless support tank can't tank vet wayrest 1 as I don't have 50k HP...
I could go on and on
No I think I will continue to tank daily with friends and guildies...

There really aren't plenty of tanks out there though.

They're in short supply - especially when compared to other roles. It would be smart for the ESO to consider placing more incentives for people to queue as tanks.

idk

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

And I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as well. So that's neither here nor there.

Also, why are you not using the group finder? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. That could be a solution for you.

Actually no. My opinion has been stated here by other tanks here in the forums but most find it pointless to repeat themselves in threads like this.

It is funny how you actually acknowledge my comments of unskilled players being the reasons half decent tanks avoid the GF by somehow blaming my tank build for their low dps and difficulty to handle mechanics. All that does is show an acknowledgement of what I said is accurate. Thanks.

What ever it was you think I did that you are thanking me for, you are welcome.

Great because you know the issue unskilled players is not my tank build as that would be pretty odd to actually blame me for them being bad players.

It would almost be as odd as blaming my character build for what I said. So that's good advice. Do unto others as you would... etc.

You really need to go back and read again. I did not blame you for anything.

I have merely suggested people complaining about dps queue times to have an alt tank build as it is so easy to create. it just seems such an intuitive solution to their issues and we can plainly see the solid fact that the faster queue time is the amazing incentive players already have to tank. Being the solution makes so much sense.

Jeremy

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

That is not merely suggesting that people tank themselves if they don't like the queue time. So like I said - if you don't like it when other people hint that there may be something wrong with your build - then do them that same courtesy. ^^

idk

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

That is not merely suggesting that people tank themselves if they don't like the queue time.

Thx again for demonstrating that my comments are accurate. That I said nothing of your build.

Now, if you are trying to argue that a faster queue time for tanks is not a great incentive to have an alt build for tanking in a thread complaining about queue times dps then your point is lost due to very sound logic. Be the solution.

Jeremy

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

That is not merely suggesting that people tank themselves if they don't like the queue time.

Thx again for demonstrating that my comments are accurate. That I said nothing of your build.

Now, if you are trying to argue that a faster queue time for tanks is not a great incentive to have an alt build for tanking in a thread complaining about queue times dps then your point is lost due to very sound logic. Be the solution.

I demonstrated that I did to you exactly what you did to me actually.

You did not take it so well either. Which I think speaks for itself. ^^

Pevey

If you have good dps, you will have at least one tank who consistently wants to queue with you. Tanks (and to a lesser extent healers) avoid GF without at least one or two dps they trust, which is why it sucks for every other dps. Tanks do this for very good reason. You have to have at least one reliable dps.

Jeremy

Pevey wrote: »

If you have good dps, you will have at least one tank who consistently wants to queue with you. Tanks (and to a lesser extent healers) avoid GF without at least one or two dps they trust, which is why it sucks for every other dps. Tanks do this for very good reason. You have to have at least one reliable dps.

But having reliable DPS is useful to any role - not just tanks. So that doesn't explain away the shortage of tanks in the group finder in my estimation.

This game just has a severe lack of interest in playing tanks. There is no way around that reality - and it's something the developers ought to take note of and try to address.

Royaji

Lack of tanks in groupfinder =/= lack of tanks in the game. The point was made before me but just to reiterate.

A DD will spend 30 minutes in queue and 15 minutes running the dungeon.
A tank will have insta-queue but will then spend 45 minutes running the same dungeon because his "DDs" are sitting in a bush spamming Light Attack (Snipe in the best case) while the tank contemplates his life choices.

Who is going to have a better time?

It's simple. "Git gud" and you will have enough tanks in your friends list to run anything at any time of day. Or you can just look for the nearest bush.

Jeremy

Royaji wrote: »

Lack of tanks in groupfinder =/= lack of tanks in the game. .

Yes it does.

This idea that the game has plenty of tanks - just none of them use the group finder is ridiculous. There is a shortage of tanks on this game. It's a real problem - and "git gud" is not the solution to it.

Not every problem in the game is due to other people needing to "git gud" and learn how to play. They need to work on ways to make tanking more enjoyable and accessible to people so more people would be willing to do it. Or perhaps offer more rewards for queuing up as one. WoW does that and it helps.

Peekachu99

Would be cool to add an “in need” thing like FFXIV has. Tank and healer exclusive mounts, too. Just copy XIV’s entire achievement and social panel into the game, to be honest, but leave everything else ESO.

Royaji

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lack of tanks in groupfinder =/= lack of tanks in the game. .

Yes it does.

This idea that the game has plenty of tanks - just none of them use the group finder is ridiculous. There is a shortage of tanks on this game. It's a real problem - and "git gud" is not the solution to it.

So is the cost of Inner Fire

Zacuel

I also switched to tanking. I prefer dps. But id rather not wait an hour.

Being a tank isn't so bad as long as the other dps are good.

It's when I'm looking at the bad dps thinking "come on I can do more damage than that guy. It should be me there."

So, people should always focus on improving.

It's the bad people that don't feel like they have to do anything but expect to be carried that are the problem.


... For me.

Jeremy

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lack of tanks in groupfinder =/= lack of tanks in the game. .

Yes it does.

This idea that the game has plenty of tanks - just none of them use the group finder is ridiculous. There is a shortage of tanks on this game. It's a real problem - and "git gud" is not the solution to it.

So is the cost of Inner Fire

Giving players more options in respect to magicka builds - such as a magica-based taunt that isn't absurdly expensive - might encourage more tanks as well. It's certainly a more productive attempt at solving the problem then just telling people to "git gud" that's for sure.

akl77

Tbh, ZOS can barely balance classes, what do you expect ZOS to balance roles in dungeon queues, having the right balance of 25% tank, 25% healer and 50% dps in game is extremely hard for ZOS. Just saying .
If we can see the numbers in line waiting that might help, so then if I’m in number 50 waiting list for a dps role, I can switch to a tank toon if the waiting line for tank is 2.

Jeremy

g -

akl77 wrote: »

Tbh, ZOS can barely balance classes, what do you expect ZOS to balance roles in dungeon queues, having the right balance of 25% tank, 25% healer and 50% dps in game is extremely hard for ZOS. Just saying .
If we can see the numbers in line waiting that might help, so then if I’m in number 50 waiting list for a dps role, I can switch to a tank toon if the waiting line for tank is 2.

I don't think anyone is expecting a perfect balance. I know I certainly ain't. So I agree with you in the sense that would be an unrealistic expectation. Tanks are always going to be a minority - just by the very nature of their role as more players prefer to do higher amounts of damage.

But there is something else going on with this game - as tanks are an endangered species and more rare than on any other MMO I have played. And half of the ones who do queue as tanks are fake. So I think there is a real problem here that needs to be addressed.

I think they should try what WoW does and give additional rewards to players who queue as roles that are currently in demand. I believe it would help the situation. I also believe there are a number of game play-oriented improvements they could do to help make the role my accessible and enjoyable - such as make their combat queues and block indicator function all the time. Because I've lost count how many newer tanks I've seen quit playing tank on this game because they got frustrated with being killed by obscured one shot mechanics.

idk

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

That is not merely suggesting that people tank themselves if they don't like the queue time.

Thx again for demonstrating that my comments are accurate. That I said nothing of your build.

Now, if you are trying to argue that a faster queue time for tanks is not a great incentive to have an alt build for tanking in a thread complaining about queue times dps then your point is lost due to very sound logic. Be the solution.

I demonstrated that I did to you exactly what you did to me actually.

You did not take it so well either. Which I think speaks for itself. ^^

Your comparison is not even close to being comparable.

I have suggested an alt tank build and tank to get faster queues which really makes sense. I have also stated that half decent tanks go to their guilds to form their groups and avoid GF because they the dps to be very low and unskilled.

For some illogical reason you reply with a suggestion that I had a bad tanking build (that works fine on vet HM trials) and suggest that me changing my tank build will magically solve the issue of other players having a low skill level and low dps. That comment alone lacks logic.

Forgive me if I am assuming you are not blaming the tank because the dps cannot kill stuff. I used to look at it as a challenge to improve my resource management. Then I realized I had no issues managing my resources. It just gets old dealing with players with bad dps and bad area awareness.

Your point does not make sense and the ideas are not comparable. However I certainly did not take it bad as there was no reason to. I only laughed.

It does seem he finally noticed the fallacy of his argument after having it pointed out in such detail.

pod88kk

Waiting 15mins before kicking someone? Nah mate they're gone by the second add pull if they don't move their butts

bmnoble

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Those groups you describe, tanks and healers if they decide to run randoms for the day, get to experience probably the equivalent of a weeks worth that you would encounter as a DPS in the queue.

True its usually hit and miss you more often get good groups but a bad experience can often put someone off queuing any further that day and a really crap experience can stop tanks/healers bothering with PUG groups.

Problem with a lot of new tanks/healers is they spec for purely a support role, which comes back to bite them when you get low DPS in a group. These days I have about multiple sets that I can mix and match in my inventory based on the PUG group I get I switch to a combination of anything from:

Bahraha's Curse
Frozen Watcher(not really practical in any way but cool effect)
Leeching Plate
Thunderbug's Carapace
Infernal Guardian
Grothdarr
less often:
Knight-Errant's Mail
Battalion Defender
Storm Knight's Plate
Engine Guardian
Tremorscale


I main a tank, I usually can't be stuffed organizing a group from the guilds I am in, I just PUG with the group finder, do my pledges hope, one lands on my 100K xp for the day, if not I do a forth random.

After that if I feel like running more dungeons, I queue specific, filtering out all the DLC dungeons, since hitting CP810 I don't care about the 30K xp anymore.

But lately real life has taken priority so I am barely doing that much lately.

Storm_knight22

I used to tank. I'd tank with every class. My favorite was my sorcerer tank, my main.

Give me back my overload bar and I'll return and tank some more.

mayasunrising

I dunno, I generally run a tank or healer through GF and really enjoy myself. No incentive program is going to make the random buttholes go away. When I get someone like that in a group I generally set them to ignore like immediately. You won't have to listen to their garbage during the run, and you'll never get grouped with them again.

ZOS adding incentives for healers and tanks isn't going to change the fact that some people are rude. We as a community need to make sure they understand (by calling them out, ignoring them, booting them from groups, etc) that if they behave like anti-social ogres they'll be shunned as such.

Dusk_Coven

SWL has a great system of "anima allocation" where on the fly you can allocate your focus to damage / healing / resistance -- i.e., dps/heal/tank. Combined with the ability to switch to weapons that have healing or tanking powers, anyone can be any role almost any time. At higher difficulty tiers dedicated gear would be preferable but you could get away with it sometimes at lower tiers.

FFXIV lets you play every class on the same toon and has extra dedicated gear storage so you can swap classes anywhere anytime. Again, this hugely increases the flexibility of every character.

ESO has tons of skill points IF you do quests and skyshards and otherwise look for them, so what we're missing is dedicated gear set storage and more flexible attribute allocation, and potentially everyone could swing all three classes on the same toon.

idk

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

SWL has a great system of "anima allocation" where on the fly you can allocate your focus to damage / healing / resistance -- i.e., dps/heal/tank. Combined with the ability to switch to weapons that have healing or tanking powers, anyone can be any role almost any time. At higher difficulty tiers dedicated gear would be preferable but you could get away with it sometimes at lower tiers.

FFXIV lets you play every class on the same toon and has extra dedicated gear storage so you can swap classes anywhere anytime. Again, this hugely increases the flexibility of every character.

ESO has tons of skill points IF you do quests and skyshards and otherwise look for them, so what we're missing is dedicated gear set storage and more flexible attribute allocation, and potentially everyone could swing all three classes on the same toon.

I have found no issue tanking on my DPS characters by simply swapping out the gear and skills. I do not change attributes or CP so it works fine. For trials I only tank on true and total tank builds.

So as I have pointed out in this thread it works well now to have an alt spec.

Cage_Lizardman

This is one reason why I don't tank in pugs much:
https://www.esologs.com/reports/v7mX13ZDCN2pArBc#fight=last
That time I wanted to try out tanking on my necro, so ending up with two 10k dd's in a vDLC made for an interesting learning experience, and much use of the resurrect ulti which I wanted to try out. Also hadn't tanked that dungeon before so was far from perfect myself. The run had some good moments, but this is not the type of thing I would do every day.

But even if the groupfinder became smart enough to join up the 10k dd's with the fake tanks and put them in City of Ash I (if they queue for any vet dungeon), I'm not sure I would tank much anyway. Killing things is simply more fun.

I want to have characters that can do a bit of everything with just changing gear, and for many purposes that can work. But for harder things, it's not viable and you need morph/cp point/attribute changes between tanking and dd'ing.

Doing vSS and seeing tanks dying repeatedly leading to total wipe by dragonfire seconds later is also not motivating. More responsibility, same rewards.

hexnotic

My incentive to play as a healer is fairly quick queue times. Boom.