This game needs incentives for people to play tanks and healers.

Sansoul

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

redspecter23

Allow dungeons to scale up to 6 members (4 dps, 1 heal, 1 tank standard) to help alleviate the problem.

Giving incentive to tanks and healers will just help promote fake heals/tanks more and in non pug groups, you'd have people fighting over who gets to be the fake tank for the next run to earn the bonus.

satanio

First of all, find better guilds and actively interact with them.

Next, if you hate waiting for a tank - become one. Its easy and painless and will solve your issue.

Sansoul

redspecter23 wrote: »

Allow dungeons to scale up to 6 members (4 dps, 1 heal, 1 tank standard) to help alleviate the problem.

Giving incentive to tanks and healers will just help promote fake heals/tanks more and in non pug groups, you'd have people fighting over who gets to be the fake tank for the next run to earn the bonus.

Well they need to at least try *SOMETHING* but just oozing along with the same approach as usual isn't working. Starting to feel like a cash grab.

Sansoul

satanio wrote: »

First of all, find better guilds and actively interact with them.

Next, if you hate waiting for a tank - become one. Its easy and painless and will solve your issue.

I was wondering how long it would take to get this echo chamber response like this.

"Find a guild".

"Find as better guild:.

So what guild are you in? Toss me an invite. I wanna see how easy it is to find a group with my on eyes. I'm online right now. Toss me an invite.

Jawshoeuh

I just made a healer for the first time in any mmo I've ever played.. I'm literally having a blast!

The zero to no wait for dungeon group is incentive enough for this guy!

(sorc main here so I know how long it can take )

Sansoul

Jawshoeuh wrote: »

I just made a healer for the first time in any mmo I've ever played.. I'm literally having a blast!

The zero to no wait for dungeon group is incentive enough for this guy!

(sorc main here so I know how long it can take )

Well I'm trying to get my brother into this game and I'm gonna level up a healer with him but this character will take a long time to level because he can't play as much. Doubt I even get him to 50 before wow classic gets here.

Jawshoeuh

Sorry to hear my friend. I have more xp scrolls then I can count! So leveling is not an issue as you can just farm dragons and watch your skill lines grow

oxygen_thief

Jawshoeuh wrote: »

I just made a healer for the first time in any mmo I've ever played.. I'm literally having a blast!

The zero to no wait for dungeon group is incentive enough for this guy!

(sorc main here so I know how long it can take )

the queue is quick yes but soon enough you will meet a lot of fake dps and your joy will grow dim. they like to whine here about fake tanks and healers but real problem is fake dpsers. nobody wants to waste hours because of people whose ceiling is about 7 dps. thats why tanks prefer to use a guild chat to find teammates for a run instead of dungeon finder. most dungeons dont require healer and tank at all. they can be done by 4 dds or by healbot + 3 dds. its one more reason to avoid finder.

ArchMikem

I wish the fact that you just helped three people get into a Dungeon that much faster would be satisfaction enough, but having a character specced for tanking REALLY sucks for everything else.

Sergykid

people see tanks as supports with big hp and block holders, and healers as full support abilities and sets.

support role is boring to these people because they don't know to make it fun. There are more sets than ebon+plague and olorime/spc+whatevermagickaset

VaranisArano

Best ways to speed up the queue while playing as a DD:

1. Queue with someone else. Even queuing with another DD seems to help, but queuing with a tank or healer makes it go quickly. Find a zone chat or guild buddy to queue with.

2. Ask good tanks and healers if you can friend them for future dungeon runs. Good tanks and healers often like to run with good DDs so they arent left carrying a run on a support character. This of course assumes that you are a good DD.

Yes, both of those require being more social than simply queuing solo for groupfinder and hoping for the best.

Taloros

If it's about levelling:

Just switch your magicka DD to healer and/or your stamina DD to tank. It takes an investment of about 6 skill points and equpping a resto staff / sword and shield.

For doing hard mode dungeons and some DLCs, such a quick fix may prove too little, but that's not much of issue on lower levels.

It even comes with an incentive: near instant grouping.

Tsar_Gekkou

Less and less good healers and tanks queue with randoms because the average dps is getting worse and worse. People don't like spending an hour in a non-dlc non-hm dungeon with strangers. If the average dps improved, that'd be incentive enough. I've already stopped pugging on my healers because it's frustrating not being able to kill a boss because both dds are cp600 who just light attack and stand in every aoe like it's their job.

AcadianPaladin

I think part of the answer is making tank/healer more satisfying to play. Just a couple things for starters:

Healers. Get rid of the darn one shot kills. Really makes a healer feel useless.

Tanks. Make rooting a foe last longer. Talons, for example, should provide double the duration that is does. 'Tis frustration to chain in a mage and lock them down only to have them run away while you're pulling in another one.

Tanks. A tank who cannot taunt is and feels absolutely worthless. This is how a tank feels when encountering a boss who ignores taunt. No boss should ignore a tank's taunt. Not ever! I simply will not tank dungeons that contain such bosses. Not ever.

satanio

Sansoul wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

First of all, find better guilds and actively interact with them.

Next, if you hate waiting for a tank - become one. Its easy and painless and will solve your issue.

I was wondering how long it would take to get this echo chamber response like this.

"Find a guild".

"Find as better guild:.

So what guild are you in? Toss me an invite. I wanna see how easy it is to find a group with my on eyes. I'm online right now. Toss me an invite.

I mean, dont get offended just because I recommended finding better guild. You can do that easily via Guild Finder, new feature added in Elsweyr. You can specifically filter guilds for (PvP, PvE, Trading..., hardcore, normal, region-language based etc.) Its on the last position in the tab, where you select your guild.

So my current situation is, I am in big CZ/SK guild called Strazci Tamrielu on EU server and had never had any problems with joining dungeons because: a) I am a tank, b) My every character is prepared to fulfill a role of a tank, even my DDs got atleast ebon in their inventory and inner fire leveled up. c) Many of our guild members have atleast one alt tank. d) our guild has nicely managed DISCORD, and specific channels dedicated to forming a group to specific activity.

You did address my first point in my original reply, but forgot to address my second: If you hate waiting for a tank, become one. But I can see that youre planning on becoming a healer and that is good. That is the right move in the right direction.

idk

satanio wrote: »

First of all, find better guilds and actively interact with them.

Next, if you hate waiting for a tank - become one. Its easy and painless and will solve your issue.

This is the answer. Both aspects are so simple. The second part, become the tank, is so easy to do in this game. I have even tanked vet dungeons with DPS CP. Just changed gear and skills.

The faster queue is the incentive. Problem solved. Be part of the solution.

It is so easy to dismiss this because it is such an easy solution. However it is proven to work countless times each day. So dismiss it as whatever you care to but that just means it is your choice to wait for the queue to pop. It has been mentioned many times in the forums that most decent tanks cease to queue up in the GF and use their guilds because of the bad dps and groups they find via GF far to often.

gstewart0413b14_ESO

me gone ta be stupid one here.

"Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable." So form your own party or go alone. Most of the dungeons don't need a party.

Guilds not providing what you need, drop them Not after one or two days of trying but after four days or so leave. Some guilds are very selective.

One last thing to think about. I'm a solo. I have been all my ESO life. Is that better? Good question but at the end of the day the issues are what I need to work on and the pro is what I did right.

TheShadowScout

Sansoul wrote: »

This game needs incentives for people to play tanks and healers.

You mean, like a dungeon queue popping right away instead after an small eternity?

...


One a more serious note... I am guessin from my experiences, many people just get fed up with not being able to AoE DPS their way through grindfests or even standard questing as a "sturdy but not quite as DPSy" tank... or annoyed as healer because too many people stand in the red, then blame them for not healing everything. Or stuff.


In any case, its a much better idea to find some dependable friends who will do stuff with you then to depend on "people" in general to support you. I mean... have you taken a good hard look at the quality of "people" in this world recently???

SirAxen

Sansoul wrote: »

Jawshoeuh wrote: »

I just made a healer for the first time in any mmo I've ever played.. I'm literally having a blast!

The zero to no wait for dungeon group is incentive enough for this guy!

(sorc main here so I know how long it can take )

Well I'm trying to get my brother into this game and I'm gonna level up a healer with him but this character will take a long time to level because he can't play as much. Doubt I even get him to 50 before wow classic gets here.

He for sure won't enjoy the game if you let him think and see that the leveling process is simply grinding out levels. ESO has a massive world with literal hundreds of stories. Let him take his time, enjoy the universe and actually learn how to properly play the game.

Runefang

No incentive would make me want to pug as a tank or healer. I tried it a few times and it was awful. On the other hand as a DD I can carry almost any group to a speed run HM clear.

KillsAllElves

I can see it now, soon zos will nerf shields again.

Jeremy

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. I believe the reasons for this were a lot of very stupid nerfs that have made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably start considering doing this.

disintegr8

If I pug I will always do so on a character set up as a tank or healer. They may not be destined to be tanks or healers but for leveling undaunted in normal dungeons you can slot the right skills and put some appropriate gear on and get the job done.

The issue of DPS quality has been raised and I see it for myself, whether it be low DPS, someone with only single target attacks, or the bow or magicka user fighting everything from range. At least they are usually not the ones permanently standing in red with low health blaming the healer if they die.

These are the risks you have to put up with in pugs and if you don't like it, don't pug. I usually find it quicker to 2 man dungeons with a friend when leveling undaunted than use group finder.

I do have several real tanks and healers which I use for trials and vet content but they only get used in group finder if I am farming for something in vet mode. They would be wasted in normal dungeons and are all maxed out in undaunted anyway.

idk

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

Jeremy

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

And I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as well. So that's neither here nor there.

Also, why are you not using the group finder? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

grkkll

Time was I only played dd but now I play 2 tanks and 2 healers.... my dds are now mules. Part of this is down to the need to weave which is so bad for your hand and wrist joint, especially with CTS and arthritis which do not do well with repetitive movement that you have to use to be a successful DD. Not queueing for dungeons is reason enough but I actually enjoy tanking and healing, so much that I don't see me ever using my night blades again (apart from storing kit)

Jeremy

KillsAllElves wrote: »

I can see it now, soon zos will nerf shields again.

lol, probably.

Jeremy

grkkll wrote: »

Time was I only played dd but now I play 2 tanks and 2 healers.... my dds are now mules. Part of this is down to the need to weave which is so bad for your hand and wrist joint, especially with CTS and arthritis which do not do well with repetitive movement that you have to use to be a successful DD. Not queueing for dungeons is reason enough but I actually enjoy tanking and healing, so much that I don't see me ever using my night blades again (apart from storing kit)

I still enjoy tanking in pugs. But healing I can no longer tolerate. Just way too many directional and positional restraints on my heals now thanks to what I would describe as stupid nerfs. I have better things to do with my time than be annoyed trying to chase wayward pugs around in a dungeon frantically trying to heal them before they die or begging for them to stand still. I have enough gray hair.

Agenericname

KillsAllElves wrote: »

I can see it now, soon zos will nerf shields again.

Or reduce the tanks CCs, who knows?

idk

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

Dungeon queues are beyond tolerable. Then you factor in the toxic groups that fall apart, the number of groups where someone is AFK right from the jump and you spend 15min waiting and wondering and then vote kicking to remove him. Or those groups like the one I just had, after a 40min queue, I get into a group where 2 people are AFK right from the jump. We sat there waiting for 15 minutes, unable to vote kick them. Then the other person leaves and here I am back in the queue hoping my next group isn't similar.

I try so hard to like this game but stuff like that sends me packing within weeks of coming back every single time. I'm in 4 large guilds, full of people who don't ever talk. Even in guild I can never find people wanting to roll tank or healer. Soon as a log in, I advertise to my guilds "DPS for random dungeon spam" and I'll repeat this once every 30 minutes or so. Ditto for the /zone I'm in at any given time.

Other games have come up with viable solutions for this by offering bonus packs, extra exp, etc... to entice people to play tanks and/or healers.... They use mechanisms like this to account for lopsided class balances. I'm not quite sure why this game can't embrace that.

Never tried so hard to like a game in my life. Come back after every new content push, enjoy the leveling experience or the new scenery for a few weeks, try to get back into end game grind and quickly burn out to another game.

Yeah, this game has a severe lack of tanks and healers. This is present in all MMORPGs. But it's a worse than average on this one - and has gotten steadily worse over the years. The reasons for this is a lot of very stupid nerfs that has made playing these roles a lot less enjoyable than they once were.

What wow does is give extra rewards to those who queue on roles that are in demand. ESO should probably considering doing this.

I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as you have no idea how many tanks are in this game. Most that have any skill avoid the GF because of the low level of skilled players often found in the GF.

So the real issue is not the number of tanks that are in the game but the dearth of skill found in so many random GF groups. Fix that issue and more tanks will be willing to queue up in the GF.

I state this as fact because I am one that no longer queues as a tank because of such very low dps and players who lack a clue about mechanics and are so pig headed they do not want to know the mechanics and blame everyone else. It is just not worth is since myself, like any half decent tank, has access to players via our guilds so we have no reason to deal with the mess.

Also, why are you not forming groups via your guilds or tanking yourself? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. Be the solution.

And I would suggest your comments are merely opinion as well. So that's neither here nor there.

Also, why are you not using the group finder? If you are in a bad build then find a better one. That could be a solution for you.

Actually no. My opinion has been stated here by other tanks here in the forums but most find it pointless to repeat themselves in threads like this.

It is funny how you actually acknowledge my comments of unskilled players being the reasons half decent tanks avoid the GF by somehow blaming my tank build for their low dps and difficulty to handle mechanics. All that does is show an acknowledgement of what I said is accurate. Thanks.