How's the food change going?

Tasear

Haven't had time to test it with all things going on.

How's the lost of health? Is it noticable?

How's extra regain? Does it make you consider different food?

Gilvoth

i think it caused a Bug
i lost my stamina regen and stamina cost per skill and weapon skill use increased double.
i am absolutely sure it was not inteneded and its a Bug.

2 threads about it so far
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6072492#Comment_6072492

and this one
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6072540#Comment_6072540

Chelo

Tasear wrote: »

Haven't had time to test it with all things going on.

How's the lost of health? Is it noticable?

How's extra regain? Does it make you consider different food?

If you can sustain not using Regen food, then Double Bloody Mara is the go to Magicka Food!

Banana

Chelo wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Haven't had time to test it with all things going on.

How's the lost of health? Is it noticable?

How's extra regain? Does it make you consider different food?

If you can sustain not using Regen food, then Double Bloody Mara is the go to Magicka Food!

Yep. Ive made the switch.

Soundinfinite

I feel this change has more to do with Racial Passives than anything.

1) It has made Sustain Races on average a better option versus damage Races
2) On Magicka Damage Races namely (Altmer/Dunmer) ,which have no built in sustain, will likely want to run False God's Devotion to get the sustain of their counterparts while retaining their built in damage...this draws the races even closer as Races with built in sustain (Breton, Argonian, and Khajiit) can still build for straight Damage and power allowing their racial passives to pick up the slack (Khajjit is in some middle ground here as their sustain isn't as strong as the other two)
3) Stamina is harder hit by this change. While Magicka can switch to Bloody Mara (Which when it comes to diversity they have done really nothing as they claimed was the reason for the change) Bloody Mara will now be the go to Magicka food as Potent Brew was. Stamina doesn't have an equivalent. However there are 7 Stamina races and only 3 of them do not have built in health now (Bosmer, Dunmer, Reguard). Thus Lava stomp will be the food of choice giving JUST max stam and stam regin while the racial passives of health with maybe one health glyph will be used by the other races to hit that 17k desired Max Health. Dunmer is simply stuck with the lower Dubious or Arteum Broth (Which is now a better choice but still expensive as hell) because they don't have health or regen and thus need a food that will give all 3. Bosmer and Reguard have regen, and will be stuck with a bi-stat blue food that gives max stat and health or taking a hit and using Arteum Broth as well.
4) PVP will have more diversity with builds utilizing Bloody Mara, Lava Stomp, Dubious, Tri-Stat, Bi-Stat blue, and Spring Loaded Infusion depending on build and need.
5) Potent Brew is really honestly dead in the water now on Magicka in both PVE and PVP. Clockwork Citrus can still be used to an extend in PVE if you just have too, but is a weaker choice the Bloody Mara.

mague

It is remarkable but still ok, my focus is on sustain anyway. I now have alternatives, but did not try them.

John_Falstaff

I'm actually curious what stamina khajiits are supposed to do. Stamina doesn't have gold bi-stat food that would be the counterpart of Bloody Mara. The meager sustain is by far not enough to drop regen food in favor of bi-stat, so if a spec didn't have sustain issues before the food change, then it's a plain nerf, because there's no way for khajiits to convert the class regen passive into better stats. Health bonus is also not high enough to run Dubious now and stay above 16k, so at least a small piece should be health-enchanted (and I don't think one big piece in health would be enough to run Lava) - so again, plain nerf for the race.

On magicka, again, it will likely push Breton even further ahead (like the race needed any buffs), because Breton can run bi-stat and will simply benefit from Bloody Mara even more, while all races without regen will have to make further sacrifices.

As always, ZOS demonstrates the lack of any idea of how to balance the game. And worse yet, this time reps support that change.

xpixelatedtkox

I forgot to check while in-game yesterday. From my understanding, they've decreased the max stats portion of Dubious and increased stamina recovery? Is that correct?

If it did only decrease health, I suppose modifying a piece for health could suffice. I have a Khajiit Stamblade, and when I saw that Dubious was nerfed, it was disheartening.

John_Falstaff

xpixelatedtkox wrote: »

I forgot to check while in-game yesterday. From my understanding, they've decreased the max stats portion of Dubious and increased stamina recovery? Is that correct?

If it did only decrease health, I suppose modifying a piece for health could suffice. I have a Khajiit Stamblade, and when I saw that Dubious was nerfed, it was disheartening.

Yes, that's it (though some report inconsistencies between food regen tooltip and character sheet value too). But according to patch notes, only max stats are nerfed. On khajiit stamblade without anything in health and with DCT, will be sitting around 15.8k health on front bar and 15.5k health back bar with typical pre-Elsweyr bar layout. Health enchantment on a small piece might suffice, though on back bar you still may not be reaching 16k health.

Point in case, orcs have been nerfed, but their health bonus will allow them not to be hit as hard. Redguards/bosmers have been buffed in relation - simply because bi-stat food wasn't nerfed and they can run it. And khajiits got pushed even further down from their already not stellar ranking, because they still can't afford bi-stat food, have even less health bonus than orc to compensate for with enchants, and, unless they're verging on being unsustainable (which stamblades aren't), have no way of converting their extra 85 regen into any advantage.

IonicKai

I wish they would have adjusted the orc instead of changing food. Really the orc is too stat dense and it was called back when they made the second pass on the orc for WrathStone. They should just dial back the health and stam to like 1k each or 1250 each and revert the food change.

Shantu

Personally I find the nerf to food annoying and totally unnecessary (if anything, they should be buffed). I mean, now you've taken your nerf-happy knife to food?!?

Here's the dev's comment:

"Previously, these food buffs were a bit too stat dense in the areas that certain builds needed to focus on, which greatly reduced consumable options when comparing effectiveness."

Whatever....

IonicKai

So because a few builds were reliant on these "stat dense" foods they decided to Nerf it? I think they missed the mark on balance as this just drives the wedge in racial setups (that they literally just fixed) giving high biased to sustain races and everyone else be damned (except the orc which was the real issue).

lassitershawn

I support this change in general. It doesn't unfairly favor sustain races because of the addition of the FGD set which can easily replace regen food to allow running mara on damage races and gaining a huge amount of DPS. Regen food is still useful it just isn't as dominant. Also, regen food is more expensive -.-

What_In_Tarnation

Imo double bloody mara should get same treatment like spring-load infusion due to the same reason they're both drink and they can be used with bone pirate and bright-throat sets.

I know the "But it's gold drink, it should be stronger than purple/blue" argument will be here soon, but look at the crafting cost, the reason why Clockwork Citrus and Artaeum takeaway Broth are getting more regen buffed is because their crafting cost is way more expensive than usual.

Look at the double bloody mara recipe, it only require nirnroot + tomato + frost mirriam and daedra heart. Now look at my eyes and tell me all of 4 ingredients are hard to obtained in game than mother's pearl and perfect roe without lying. To be fair, this drink should classified as purple or even blue quality drink and its value should be equal or slightly lower than normal blue food ones.

Tasear

What_In_Tarnation wrote: »

Imo double bloody mara should get same treatment like spring-load infusion due to the same reason they're both drink and they can be used with bone pirate and bright-throat sets.

I know the "But it's gold drink, it should be stronger than purple/blue" argument will be here soon, but look at the crafting cost, the reason why Clockwork Citrus and Artaeum takeaway Broth are getting more regen buffed is because their crafting cost is way more expensive than usual.

Look at the double bloody mara recipe, it only require nirnroot + tomato + frost mirriam and daedra heart. Now look at my eyes and tell me all of 4 ingredients are hard to obtained in game than mother's pearl and perfect roe without lying. To be fair, this drink should classified as purple or even blue quality drink and its value should be equal or slightly lower than normal blue food ones.

Technically if the trend continues the cost will rise as frost mirriam is only obtainable rarely from hireling.

What_In_Tarnation

Tasear wrote: »

What_In_Tarnation wrote: »

Imo double bloody mara should get same treatment like spring-load infusion due to the same reason they're both drink and they can be used with bone pirate and bright-throat sets.

I know the "But it's gold drink, it should be stronger than purple/blue" argument will be here soon, but look at the crafting cost, the reason why Clockwork Citrus and Artaeum takeaway Broth are getting more regen buffed is because their crafting cost is way more expensive than usual.

Look at the double bloody mara recipe, it only require nirnroot + tomato + frost mirriam and daedra heart. Now look at my eyes and tell me all of 4 ingredients are hard to obtained in game than mother's pearl and perfect roe without lying. To be fair, this drink should classified as purple or even blue quality drink and its value should be equal or slightly lower than normal blue food ones.

Technically if the trend continues the cost will rise as frost mirriam is only obtainable rarely from hireling.

You can get frost mirriam easily via provisioning crafting writ without any effort involved. Unlike perfect roe and mother of pearl.

C'mon zenimax, I give you an free idea to nerf something again and it's more reasonable nerf than yours in the past few months/years.

Chelo

Tasear wrote: »

What_In_Tarnation wrote: »

Imo double bloody mara should get same treatment like spring-load infusion due to the same reason they're both drink and they can be used with bone pirate and bright-throat sets.

I know the "But it's gold drink, it should be stronger than purple/blue" argument will be here soon, but look at the crafting cost, the reason why Clockwork Citrus and Artaeum takeaway Broth are getting more regen buffed is because their crafting cost is way more expensive than usual.

Look at the double bloody mara recipe, it only require nirnroot + tomato + frost mirriam and daedra heart. Now look at my eyes and tell me all of 4 ingredients are hard to obtained in game than mother's pearl and perfect roe without lying. To be fair, this drink should classified as purple or even blue quality drink and its value should be equal or slightly lower than normal blue food ones.

Technically if the trend continues the cost will rise as frost mirriam is only obtainable rarely from hireling.

Thx lord I already have 1k hahaha 😆

Wuuffyy

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I'm actually curious what stamina khajiits are supposed to do. Stamina doesn't have gold bi-stat food that would be the counterpart of Bloody Mara. The meager sustain is by far not enough to drop regen food in favor of bi-stat, so if a spec didn't have sustain issues before the food change, then it's a plain nerf, because there's no way for khajiits to convert the class regen passive into better stats. Health bonus is also not high enough to run Dubious now and stay above 16k, so at least a small piece should be health-enchanted (and I don't think one big piece in health would be enough to run Lava) - so again, plain nerf for the race.

On magicka, again, it will likely push Breton even further ahead (like the race needed any buffs), because Breton can run bi-stat and will simply benefit from Bloody Mara even more, while all races without regen will have to make further sacrifices.

As always, ZOS demonstrates the lack of any idea of how to balance the game. And worse yet, this time reps support that change.

Yes I want new reps. I play 10 different characters and these people have yet to have anything done that I have wanted.

Grandma

Food changes are whack dude don't worry about it.

- post made by healer Orzaga's red Frothgar gang

Iskiab

Think it was meant as a nerf to bright throat and bone pirate? I’m not sure, but in pvp the loss of health is noticeable if you try to run Witchmother’s.

WrathOfInnos

Iskiab wrote: »

Think it was meant as a nerf to bright throat and bone pirate? I’m not sure, but in pvp the loss of health is noticeable if you try to run Witchmother’s.

@Iskiab Bright Throat is better than ever, combined with Bloody Mara now. Unfortunately there’s no stam equivalent to make Bone Pirate work.

russelmmendoza

Didnt have problem with sustain on my redblade stam, didnt have any regen enchant on my gear, did 33k dps on a 6mil dummy.

Guess food wasnt hit that bad.

IonicKai

Shantu wrote: »

Personally I find the nerf to food annoying and totally unnecessary (if anything, they should be buffed). I mean, now you've taken your nerf-happy knife to food?!?

Here's the dev's comment:

"Previously, these food buffs were a bit too stat dense in the areas that certain builds needed to focus on, which greatly reduced consumable options when comparing effectiveness."

Whatever....

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I really want to understand how these foods were too stat dense in the devs eyes. My calculations are below and make an assumption that health recovery is of equal value to primary stat recovery (its not but for sake of argument). The basic formula that I followed was (food stat)/ (equivalent set bonus/ enchant value). In either case blue food was actually stronger than purple recovery food and only weaker than gold recovery food due to treating the health recovery as equal (again it's really not).

Apologies for the poor formatting but bbcode table was not working correctly.

I am on console so I haven't seen the reduction yet but I would rather it not make it to console.

Calculations

Apologies for poor formatting but bbcode table doesn't work correctly

EnchantValues: Health | PrimaryStat | RecoveryJewelry | DamageJewelry
954 | 868 | 169 | 174

ItemSetValues: Health | PrimaryStat | Recovery | Damage
1206 | 1096 | 129 | 129

Foods SetBonusEquivalent | EnchantBonusEquivalent
GreenHealthFood: 5.48 | 6.93
GreenPrimaryStatFood: 5.52 | 6.97
BlueFood: 8.98 | 11.34
PurpleRecoveryFood 8.30 | 9.25
GoldRecoveryFood: 11.44 | 11.85



Enchant Values
Health
Primary Stat
Recovery Jewelry
Damage Jewelry


954
868
169
174

Item Set Values
Health
Primary Stat
Recovery
Damage


1206
1096
129
129


Food
Health
Primary Stat
Health Recovery
Primary Stat Recovery
Set Bonus Equivalent
Enchant Bonus Equivalent


Green Health Food
6608
0
0
0
5.48
6.93


Green Primary Stat Food
06048
0
0
5.52
6.97


Blue Food
5395
4936
0
0
8.98
11.34


Purple Recovery Food
3511
3192
0
319
8.30
9.25


Gold Food
3724
3458
351
319
11.44
11.85

What_In_Tarnation

Aside from the food/drink changes, I think we can talk about potion changes, especially crown potions.

With all medicinal use passives, I've noticed crown potions provide longer major buffs duration than crafted durations before you can use cp150 water (lorkhan's tear)



This is my lv 42 character (all medicinal use passive), as you can see both potions restore same value but the major buffs are quite different. I haven't check other major buff effects from other crown potions yet. But I believe crown potion have better advantage when you still can't use cp 150 potions yet.