Roar of Alkosh set change

Nemesis7884

Has zos ever said why they dont want to turn it into a proper tank set? Seems weird to me and would be an easy change... just heavily nerf the dot, keep the debuff and do health/health/aegis....? Has there ever been a petition or something line it?

Royaji

ZOS refuses to give tanks support sets since it will help increase trials DPS in good groups even more. Why do you think meta sets for tanks are all several years old? The new trial set is a big surprise and may be caused by a shift in their position but I have very little hope.

The_Old_Goat

Take a look at the new heavy set coming from the Sunspire trial in Elswehr, it's 100% a support set. Also the heavy set from Frostvault.

Lisutaris

It is medium, has minor slayer buff in it, it is a dd set... not tank set.
Tanks are using it because alkosh gives a lot of grp support. (jewelry and weapons are used)

As a tank set, it would have heavy armor parts. It has not, so that is your answer .

BTW ... with elsweyr you will get your heavy support set... so be happy, they listened

Royaji

chainlink01 wrote: »

Take a look at the new heavy set coming from the Sunspire trial in Elswehr, it's 100% a support set. Also the heavy set from Frostvault.

Which I have mentioned. And as support set I mean DPS increasing sets.

Lisutaris wrote: »

It is medium, has minor slayer buff in it, it is a dd set... not tank set.
Tanks are using it because alkosh gives a lot of grp support. (jewelry and weapons are used)

As a tank set, it would have heavy armor parts. It has not, so that is your answer .

BTW ... with elsweyr you will get your heavy support set... so be happy, they listened

Yeah, they've listened after what is it, 3 years since TG? And we all know that it will be paired with Alkosh, not replace it.

richo262

No, keep Alkosh medium. Those that have taken the time to do the math know that having a medium belt for Alkosh / 1 Ebon ring is BIS for that setup. (1 light, 1 heavy monster set).

I'm fine with some sets that do a mix up. AY is one of the top tier StamDPS sets, but is heavy. Those that have taken the time to do the math with AY know that an AY Chest / 1 Rele ring is BIS for that setup. (2 med monster).

Both equate to the same set completion, both are not dependent on weapon swap, both have a higher resistance because you can shift the res to an item that has a higher yield.

The only draw back is 5% slayer could be tank orientated, but good tanks don't die .

Lisutaris

Royaji wrote: »

chainlink01 wrote: »

Take a look at the new heavy set coming from the Sunspire trial in Elswehr, it's 100% a support set. Also the heavy set from Frostvault.

Which I have mentioned. And as support set I mean DPS increasing sets.

Lisutaris wrote: »

It is medium, has minor slayer buff in it, it is a dd set... not tank set.
Tanks are using it because alkosh gives a lot of grp support. (jewelry and weapons are used)

As a tank set, it would have heavy armor parts. It has not, so that is your answer .

BTW ... with elsweyr you will get your heavy support set... so be happy, they listened

Yeah, they've listened after what is it, 3 years since TG? And we all know that it will be paired with Alkosh, not replace it.

They don't have to listen to everything. It's nice to have the freedom to mix sets together. There will always be some kind of meta and BIS but it's still nice to have this sort of freedom. There's also meterious service from IC ... stacks with everything

AND I agree to the change of alkosh .... let's scale it with max stam or weapon dmg ... So tanks will loose around 70% of the procc dmg and DD will have +50% more than before
The game would benefit from more hurting debuffs/boss mechanics (so that 100% taunt uptime is way more important) and that only "real tanks" are able to withstand it. That would also improve the value of defensive tank sets....
Additional to that, it is pretty boring that a tank is able to survive on its own. Even a healer wants a place in tamriel where he/she can feel useful.
Be glad, that I am not the one making the decisions

menschikov2

It is not so often to see but it is also possible to get Alkosch on a DD when your Tanks wear other buffsets. Would be not so nice to take away this Chance by changing the set. And also for such a strong Buff the thanks are forced to make a trade. Seems fair for me

code65536

It should not be changed.

Alkosh was designed as a stamina damage set. It was originally used as a stamina damage set. Then people discovered that it would be more efficient to have a tank use it.

But that doesn't make it a tank set. Instead, it's a stamina damage set that currently makes more sense on a tank. That's a subtle but important distinction.

For example, what if there was a trial where Alkosh doesn't work as well on a tank? Maybe one where, because of the wonky hit box of the boss, you get better uptime on Alkosh on a DD than Alkosh on a tank? (*cough* Sunspire *cough*).

What if one day in the future, there are new, really compelling tank sets that are introduced that displace Alkosh, and then it makes more sense to have a DD in Alkosh so that the tank could wear whatever these new amazing tank sets might be?

The point is that Alkosh on a tank is not a matter of intended design. But rather, it's a matter of Alkosh being more efficient and making more sense on a tank than on a DD under the current circumstances. And if those circumstances were to change for whatever reason, then Alkosh would make sense on a DD.

Runefang

MoL needs a medium Armor set to drop.

mikemacon

...because it makes no sense to turn a completely functional DPS set into a “proper tank set” just because some people insist on using it contrary to its intended design.

Royaji

Lisutaris wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

chainlink01 wrote: »

Take a look at the new heavy set coming from the Sunspire trial in Elswehr, it's 100% a support set. Also the heavy set from Frostvault.

Which I have mentioned. And as support set I mean DPS increasing sets.

Lisutaris wrote: »

It is medium, has minor slayer buff in it, it is a dd set... not tank set.
Tanks are using it because alkosh gives a lot of grp support. (jewelry and weapons are used)

As a tank set, it would have heavy armor parts. It has not, so that is your answer .

BTW ... with elsweyr you will get your heavy support set... so be happy, they listened

Yeah, they've listened after what is it, 3 years since TG? And we all know that it will be paired with Alkosh, not replace it.

They don't have to listen to everything. It's nice to have the freedom to mix sets together. There will always be some kind of meta and BIS but it's still nice to have this sort of freedom. There's also meterious service from IC ... stacks with everything

AND I agree to the change of alkosh .... let's scale it with max stam or weapon dmg ... So tanks will loose around 70% of the procc dmg and DD will have +50% more than before
The game would benefit from more hurting debuffs/boss mechanics (so that 100% taunt uptime is way more important) and that only "real tanks" are able to withstand it. That would also improve the value of defensive tank sets....
Additional to that, it is pretty boring that a tank is able to survive on its own. Even a healer wants a place in tamriel where he/she can feel useful.
Be glad, that I am not the one making the decisions

My point was that tanks who want to support the group, tank on the edge and not hide behind 50k health have no freedom to mix sets since there are none. Tanking meta was stale for several years. Alkosh, PA, Torug's, Ebon, Dragon. Base game, IC and TG sets... It kinda hurt to read patch notes every time and just skim other the new heavy sets because they were all meatshield oriented.

And yes, I'm glad you are not making decisions. Firstly because meatshield tanking is the worst kind of tanking and should never be meta and secondly because you seem to have very little experience in hard content since you are claiming that 100% taunt uptime is not important (those DDs really like catching Z'Maja's melons or Rakkhat's barrage and dodging Olms's giant one shot cones). Not even talking about all those cases where tank has to survive on their own due to mechanics. Healers who are not healbots have a place in any reasonable group. It's your own fault if you only want to spam Springs and Mutagen and expect to be welcome in groups.

Tasear

With nercomancer it might not be tank set but DPS set too.

Lisutaris

Royaji wrote: »

My point was that tanks who want to support the group, tank on the edge and not hide behind 50k health have no freedom to mix sets since there are none. Tanking meta was stale for several years. Alkosh, PA, Torug's, Ebon, Dragon. Base game, IC and TG sets... It kinda hurt to read patch notes every time and just skim other the new heavy sets because they were all meatshield oriented.

And yes, I'm glad you are not making decisions. Firstly because meatshield tanking is the worst kind of tanking and should never be meta and secondly because you seem to have very little experience in hard content since you are claiming that 100% taunt uptime is not important (those DDs really like catching Z'Maja's melons or Rakkhat's barrage and dodging Olms's giant one shot cones). Not even talking about all those cases where tank has to survive on their own due to mechanics. Healers who are not healbots have a place in any reasonable group. It's your own fault if you only want to spam Springs and Mutagen and expect to be welcome in groups.

Tanking "on the edge" can be done otherwise. I agree, right now its only possible with equipping dd/heal sets to support the grp. But that's bad and therefore not good in terms of tanking experience and very confusing for new players.

I haven't even once said, that tanks should be meatshields. Let me also give an answer to your comment about my experience . It looks like you haven't played mmorpgs where tanking was like playing the piano... *double wink*.
It would be nice, if tanks (linked to frost staff or sword/board) could reduce the outgoing dmg even more, evade the following attack with a 100% possibility, .... . But that's my opinion, will never happen in TESO because the classes/roles are not built that way.
About my "losing aggro" statement -> let's name an example, which a lot of players can understand as your vas+2 or vcr+3 is maybe 2-3% of the playerbase. (psssht you are not alone here)
==> dodgeable axes in vaa or shielding and blocking against them as dd. Dodgeable helra final boss (thousand cuts). Dodgeable bleeds (CoS, CR, .... ). Heck, you can even kite and dodge manticore as dd for an eternity. How i would love if it gets a chain-pull skill for such moments .

But we are drifting off-topic. As i can understand your point, and agree with anti meatshield future. It looks like you misunderstood me, or just don't want to accept my point of view.
Instead of asking for changes to the stam dd set (to your liking)... it would be more useful to ask for improvements to the lunar bastion set. (if active it could boost some stats for shielded friends, dunno, something like that)

My 2 shiny gold coins.

Lisutaris

Tasear wrote: »

With nercomancer it might not be tank set but DPS set too.

Sry for double post. Yes @Tasear , I am thinking the same in terms of active uptime.
BUT it's bad design, if it only works for necro . Well in grps where alkosh is used, there are soooo many synergies to use.... even with a non necro you have a 100% uptime because of orbs, aoe with synergy,.... . I wouldn't wear it in 4 ppl dungeons or pledges... maybe as tank or heal with 3 ww players or something like that .. *lol* ^^

Royaji

Lisutaris wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

My point was that tanks who want to support the group, tank on the edge and not hide behind 50k health have no freedom to mix sets since there are none. Tanking meta was stale for several years. Alkosh, PA, Torug's, Ebon, Dragon. Base game, IC and TG sets... It kinda hurt to read patch notes every time and just skim other the new heavy sets because they were all meatshield oriented.

And yes, I'm glad you are not making decisions. Firstly because meatshield tanking is the worst kind of tanking and should never be meta and secondly because you seem to have very little experience in hard content since you are claiming that 100% taunt uptime is not important (those DDs really like catching Z'Maja's melons or Rakkhat's barrage and dodging Olms's giant one shot cones). Not even talking about all those cases where tank has to survive on their own due to mechanics. Healers who are not healbots have a place in any reasonable group. It's your own fault if you only want to spam Springs and Mutagen and expect to be welcome in groups.

Tanking "on the edge" can be done otherwise. I agree, right now its only possible with equipping dd/heal sets to support the grp. But that's bad and therefore not good in terms of tanking experience and very confusing for new players.

I haven't even once said, that tanks should be meatshields. Let me also give an answer to your comment about my experience . It looks like you haven't played mmorpgs where tanking was like playing the piano... *double wink*.
It would be nice, if tanks (linked to frost staff or sword/board) could reduce the outgoing dmg even more, evade the following attack with a 100% possibility, .... . But that's my opinion, will never happen in TESO because the classes/roles are not built that way.
About my "losing aggro" statement -> let's name an example, which a lot of players can understand as your vas+2 or vcr+3 is maybe 2-3% of the playerbase. (psssht you are not alone here)
==> dodgeable axes in vaa or shielding and blocking against them as dd. Dodgeable helra final boss (thousand cuts). Dodgeable bleeds (CoS, CR, .... ). Heck, you can even kite and dodge manticore as dd for an eternity. How i would love if it gets a chain-pull skill for such moments .

But we are drifting off-topic. As i can understand your point, and agree with anti meatshield future. It looks like you misunderstood me, or just don't want to accept my point of view.
Instead of asking for changes to the stam dd set (to your liking)... it would be more useful to ask for improvements to the lunar bastion set. (if active it could boost some stats for shielded friends, dunno, something like that)

My 2 shiny gold coins.

I understand your point, I just disagree with it. I do not want more defensive tools in my tanking kit, I want more offense enhancing tools. I tank in ESO because it is different from other MMOs and I do not want it to be more of the same. It's more fun being useful to a good group which benefit from your offensive support than to a bad group which requires you to take damage off them.

And yeah, your idea of making everything threatening completely unavoidable does not seem feasible for ESO. Paritally because the game just does not work with these rules and partially because I feel like it will hurt new tanks a lot more than being confused about offense enhancing sets. Making tank's death a guaranteed wipe with no way for DDs to kite the boss and get the rez is in my opinion putting excessive pressure on tanks which will only make the role less appealing. DDs can make some mistakes wihtout majorly screwing the group so why should it be different for tanks?

And I'm not saying that Alkosh should be changed, I do not mind it the way it is. I completely understand why ZOS is reluctant to give us more DPS support sets. It still sucks to get no new shiny toys DLC after DLC, you know? I always found it funny how better damage sets allow you to be a better DD but better tanking sets are somehow allowing you to be a worse tank.

therift

Royaji wrote: »

Lisutaris wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

My point was that tanks who want to support the group, tank on the edge and not hide behind 50k health have no freedom to mix sets since there are none. Tanking meta was stale for several years. Alkosh, PA, Torug's, Ebon, Dragon. Base game, IC and TG sets... It kinda hurt to read patch notes every time and just skim other the new heavy sets because they were all meatshield oriented.

And yes, I'm glad you are not making decisions. Firstly because meatshield tanking is the worst kind of tanking and should never be meta and secondly because you seem to have very little experience in hard content since you are claiming that 100% taunt uptime is not important (those DDs really like catching Z'Maja's melons or Rakkhat's barrage and dodging Olms's giant one shot cones). Not even talking about all those cases where tank has to survive on their own due to mechanics. Healers who are not healbots have a place in any reasonable group. It's your own fault if you only want to spam Springs and Mutagen and expect to be welcome in groups.

Tanking "on the edge" can be done otherwise. I agree, right now its only possible with equipping dd/heal sets to support the grp. But that's bad and therefore not good in terms of tanking experience and very confusing for new players.

I haven't even once said, that tanks should be meatshields. Let me also give an answer to your comment about my experience . It looks like you haven't played mmorpgs where tanking was like playing the piano... *double wink*.
It would be nice, if tanks (linked to frost staff or sword/board) could reduce the outgoing dmg even more, evade the following attack with a 100% possibility, .... . But that's my opinion, will never happen in TESO because the classes/roles are not built that way.
About my "losing aggro" statement -> let's name an example, which a lot of players can understand as your vas+2 or vcr+3 is maybe 2-3% of the playerbase. (psssht you are not alone here)
==> dodgeable axes in vaa or shielding and blocking against them as dd. Dodgeable helra final boss (thousand cuts). Dodgeable bleeds (CoS, CR, .... ). Heck, you can even kite and dodge manticore as dd for an eternity. How i would love if it gets a chain-pull skill for such moments .

But we are drifting off-topic. As i can understand your point, and agree with anti meatshield future. It looks like you misunderstood me, or just don't want to accept my point of view.
Instead of asking for changes to the stam dd set (to your liking)... it would be more useful to ask for improvements to the lunar bastion set. (if active it could boost some stats for shielded friends, dunno, something like that)

My 2 shiny gold coins.

I understand your point, I just disagree with it. I do not want more defensive tools in my tanking kit, I want more offense enhancing tools. I tank in ESO because it is different from other MMOs and I do not want it to be more of the same. It's more fun being useful to a good group which benefit from your offensive support than to a bad group which requires you to take damage off them.

And yeah, your idea of making everything threatening completely unavoidable does not seem feasible for ESO. Paritally because the game just does not work with these rules and partially because I feel like it will hurt new tanks a lot more than being confused about offense enhancing sets. Making tank's death a guaranteed wipe with no way for DDs to kite the boss and get the rez is in my opinion putting excessive pressure on tanks which will only make the role less appealing. DDs can make some mistakes wihtout majorly screwing the group so why should it be different for tanks?

And I'm not saying that Alkosh should be changed, I do not mind it the way it is. I completely understand why ZOS is reluctant to give us more DPS support sets. It still sucks to get no new shiny toys DLC after DLC, you know? I always found it funny how better damage sets allow you to be a better DD but better tanking sets are somehow allowing you to be a worse tank.

Touche

Lisutaris

therift wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lisutaris wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

My point was that tanks who want to support the group, tank on the edge and not hide behind 50k health have no freedom to mix sets since there are none. Tanking meta was stale for several years. Alkosh, PA, Torug's, Ebon, Dragon. Base game, IC and TG sets... It kinda hurt to read patch notes every time and just skim other the new heavy sets because they were all meatshield oriented.

And yes, I'm glad you are not making decisions. Firstly because meatshield tanking is the worst kind of tanking and should never be meta and secondly because you seem to have very little experience in hard content since you are claiming that 100% taunt uptime is not important (those DDs really like catching Z'Maja's melons or Rakkhat's barrage and dodging Olms's giant one shot cones). Not even talking about all those cases where tank has to survive on their own due to mechanics. Healers who are not healbots have a place in any reasonable group. It's your own fault if you only want to spam Springs and Mutagen and expect to be welcome in groups.

Tanking "on the edge" can be done otherwise. I agree, right now its only possible with equipping dd/heal sets to support the grp. But that's bad and therefore not good in terms of tanking experience and very confusing for new players.

I haven't even once said, that tanks should be meatshields. Let me also give an answer to your comment about my experience . It looks like you haven't played mmorpgs where tanking was like playing the piano... *double wink*.
It would be nice, if tanks (linked to frost staff or sword/board) could reduce the outgoing dmg even more, evade the following attack with a 100% possibility, .... . But that's my opinion, will never happen in TESO because the classes/roles are not built that way.
About my "losing aggro" statement -> let's name an example, which a lot of players can understand as your vas+2 or vcr+3 is maybe 2-3% of the playerbase. (psssht you are not alone here)
==> dodgeable axes in vaa or shielding and blocking against them as dd. Dodgeable helra final boss (thousand cuts). Dodgeable bleeds (CoS, CR, .... ). Heck, you can even kite and dodge manticore as dd for an eternity. How i would love if it gets a chain-pull skill for such moments .

But we are drifting off-topic. As i can understand your point, and agree with anti meatshield future. It looks like you misunderstood me, or just don't want to accept my point of view.
Instead of asking for changes to the stam dd set (to your liking)... it would be more useful to ask for improvements to the lunar bastion set. (if active it could boost some stats for shielded friends, dunno, something like that)

My 2 shiny gold coins.

I understand your point, I just disagree with it. I do not want more defensive tools in my tanking kit, I want more offense enhancing tools. I tank in ESO because it is different from other MMOs and I do not want it to be more of the same. It's more fun being useful to a good group which benefit from your offensive support than to a bad group which requires you to take damage off them.

And yeah, your idea of making everything threatening completely unavoidable does not seem feasible for ESO. Paritally because the game just does not work with these rules and partially because I feel like it will hurt new tanks a lot more than being confused about offense enhancing sets. Making tank's death a guaranteed wipe with no way for DDs to kite the boss and get the rez is in my opinion putting excessive pressure on tanks which will only make the role less appealing. DDs can make some mistakes wihtout majorly screwing the group so why should it be different for tanks?

And I'm not saying that Alkosh should be changed, I do not mind it the way it is. I completely understand why ZOS is reluctant to give us more DPS support sets. It still sucks to get no new shiny toys DLC after DLC, you know? I always found it funny how better damage sets allow you to be a better DD but better tanking sets are somehow allowing you to be a worse tank.

Touche

With Elsweyr and Sets like "Call of the Undertaker" and "Claw of Yolnakhriin" ... tanks are going to get such "better tank support sets".... Let's just hope it will be the same in the future. (and maybe even some kind of redisign for older sets like "Beckoning Steel")

The thread title is "Roar of Alkosh set change" and with, that we both disagree Let's not drive this discussion in another direction =^.^=

Dark_Lord_Kuro

If alkosh is reworked to be a "true" thank set the lunar bastion should be changed to a stam dps set

Drako_Ei

richo262 wrote: »

No, keep Alkosh medium. Those that have taken the time to do the math know that having a medium belt for Alkosh / 1 Ebon ring is BIS for that setup. (1 light, 1 heavy monster set).

I'm fine with some sets that do a mix up. AY is one of the top tier StamDPS sets, but is heavy. Those that have taken the time to do the math with AY know that an AY Chest / 1 Rele ring is BIS for that setup. (2 med monster).

Both equate to the same set completion, both are not dependent on weapon swap, both have a higher resistance because you can shift the res to an item that has a higher yield.

The only draw back is 5% slayer could be tank orientated, but good tanks don't die .

5/1/1 is not BiS for stamina dps, its 7

me_ming

Drako_Ei wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

No, keep Alkosh medium. Those that have taken the time to do the math know that having a medium belt for Alkosh / 1 Ebon ring is BIS for that setup. (1 light, 1 heavy monster set).

I'm fine with some sets that do a mix up. AY is one of the top tier StamDPS sets, but is heavy. Those that have taken the time to do the math with AY know that an AY Chest / 1 Rele ring is BIS for that setup. (2 med monster).

Both equate to the same set completion, both are not dependent on weapon swap, both have a higher resistance because you can shift the res to an item that has a higher yield.

The only draw back is 5% slayer could be tank orientated, but good tanks don't die .

5/1/1 is not BiS for stamina dps, its 7

Yeah, I was thinking this too. Those that have taken the time to do the math know that 7 medium is preferred over 5-1-1 set up for stamdps.

usmcjdking

This set is arguably one of the worst balanced sets in the game. It is the single most powerful damage amp set in the game that does good damage in it's own right with absolutely zero limitations, which, from a balance perspective, is absolutely mind boggling.

Alkosh needs to be gated behind build limitation rather than just being a dumpset that you throw on whatever should equip it rather than whatever can equip it.

Jhalin

Drako_Ei wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

No, keep Alkosh medium. Those that have taken the time to do the math know that having a medium belt for Alkosh / 1 Ebon ring is BIS for that setup. (1 light, 1 heavy monster set).

I'm fine with some sets that do a mix up. AY is one of the top tier StamDPS sets, but is heavy. Those that have taken the time to do the math with AY know that an AY Chest / 1 Rele ring is BIS for that setup. (2 med monster).

Both equate to the same set completion, both are not dependent on weapon swap, both have a higher resistance because you can shift the res to an item that has a higher yield.

The only draw back is 5% slayer could be tank orientated, but good tanks don't die .

5/1/1 is not BiS for stamina dps, its 7

6/0/1 is what they’re talking about, and they’re right. You get extra health twice over with HA passive, more resistances, and extra sustain, for a minor loss of crit chance