It's the last week of PTS cycle and...

LinearParadox

The interaction with the Necro and Justice System is still in. SMH.

"But, Muh 'mursion" you say...
Yes, Immersion... don't wanna break our precious immersion, what with Sorcs waltzing through towns with a cadre of Daedra in tow, stage 4 vampires walking around in the sun with no penalties and having cordial conversations with shopkeepers and guards, huge ravenous Werewolves being ignored as they consume bodies of fallen men and mer in plain sight.

"But, muh Justice System" you say...
Yes, the Justice System that wasn't even in the game for the first two years and everyone got along fine. The Justice System that, when finally implemented, was gutted and mostly scrapped to "prevent griefing" by other players. I guess it's okay if NPCs grief you though, because that's a 'gameplay mechanic'.

Have fun trying to duel in or around towns, while everyone else can easily and without concern.
Have fun trying to use your class-defining abilities while constantly looking over your shoulder for a random traveling merchant or NPC that might 'catch' you.
Have fun eating penalties and bounties just trying to play the game.
Have fun gimping yourself and not using your toolkit out of frustration and paranoia of the above.

Yup, can't wait to play a Necromancer!

Anhedonie

Shame guards don't attack people dueling in the cities...

Thoragaal

The way I justify it is that both vampirism and lycanthropy can be considered diseases; involuntary.
But necromany is something you actively chose to participate in; volantary.

Morgul667

I think necromancy being a crime in the cities is a nice thing

Can be fun to play

chinchillas48

I think there should be an option to prevent guards from attacking you when using abilities, if you choose so. It would be nice to have the option to opt out of the justice system, the same way you can opt out of killing npcs by preventing attacking innocents. If you want the immersion, the same way an assassin would want it for killing people, you can just opt in.

Darlon

Morgul667 wrote: »

I think necromancy being a crime in the cities is a nice thing

Can be fun to play

Yes, especially when you get bounties in delves and while doing quests etc....

Idea might be nice, but implementation is half-arsed....

Deathlord92

A vampire will not announce he is a vampire at least not this vampire 😎

LinearParadox

Morgul667 wrote: »

I think necromancy being a crime in the cities is a nice thing

Can be fun to play

Yeah, maybe, for an hour or two, the first few days or weeks... after a point the novelty is going to wear off HARD and it'll swiftly become nothing more than a nuisance.
Mark my words: A few weeks after this goes live, people are going to be clamoring to be able to opt out.

Thoragaal wrote: »

The way I justify it is that both vampirism and lycanthropy can be considered diseases; involuntary.
But necromany is something you actively chose to participate in; volantary.

So was Leprosy in the days of old, they had leper colonies and were shunned from society just because it was transmissible.
Vampirism and Lycanthropy are not only transmissible, but known to be dangerous with their carriers routinely killing/feeding on people. Yeah, I'm sure they'd let someone like that just walk around freely -_-
No, it doesn't make any sense. It's all or nothing. If we can suspend our disbelief for these glaring issues, we can sure as hell suspend them for the sake of gameplay accessibility for an entire class.

Anhedonie wrote: »

Shame guards don't attack people dueling in the cities...

I'm a little split on this.
On the one hand, maybe they would/should. On the other... dueling, even to the death, used to be legal if both parties consented.
Similarly, while it may be immersion-breaking or annoying to those in cities, the flipside is that there's very little spaceoutside of cities without hostile mob spawns that would interfere with the duel.
Either way, the thread is about Necro crime, please keep it confined to such. Thank you.

sudaki_eso

There is an easy fix, dont play a necromancer
I wont complain before i tried the class and see how it is working out.

Wise_Will

Darlon wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I think necromancy being a crime in the cities is a nice thing

Can be fun to play

Yes, especially when you get bounties in delves and while doing quests etc....

Idea might be nice, but implementation is half-arsed....

Wait, you get bounties in delves? That's going to be annoying

Darlon

Wise_Will wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I think necromancy being a crime in the cities is a nice thing

Can be fun to play

Yes, especially when you get bounties in delves and while doing quests etc....

Idea might be nice, but implementation is half-arsed....

Wait, you get bounties in delves? That's going to be annoying

If there's a friendly or neutral npc in there, as some delves have, then you can get a bounty... Had it happen in one of the Elsweyr delves... (don't recall exactly which one)

Tommy_The_Gun

Rises dead corpse:
- Stop right there criminal scum, pay the fine ! ... That will be 100 gold.

Accidentally Steals an apple:
- Stop right there criminal scum, pay the fine ! ... That will be 50 gold.

Video game logic... Seems legit...

Btw. I can understand necromancy being considered illegal... But as far as I know there in no law that forbids shape-shifting or simply looking pale...

AlienSlof

No problem to me as I don't duel in towns, only with mates at a house. However, I do agree that vampires, werewolves and summoned daedra and wild animals should also be outlawed in town.

Certainly in the single player ES games, I had as much fun dealing with the disadvantages and problems as I did with the strengths.

VaranisArano

I'm going to get a bounty for necromancy in every region of Tamriel.

And then I'm going to start questing. Just for the joy of role-playing my way through Tamriel as a notorious necromancer that everyone has to grit their teeth and pretend to be cheerful about working with me.

MellowMagic

All they had to do was add dialogue to the citizens and guards. They could shame you or whatever just like they praise you when you finish specific quests.

Thoragaal

LinearParadox wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

The way I justify it is that both vampirism and lycanthropy can be considered diseases; involuntary.
But necromany is something you actively chose to participate in; volantary.

So was Leprosy in the days of old, they had leper colonies and were shunned from society just because it was transmissible.
Vampirism and Lycanthropy are not only transmissible, but known to be dangerous with their carriers routinely killing/feeding on people. Yeah, I'm sure they'd let someone like that just walk around freely -_-
No, it doesn't make any sense. It's all or nothing. If we can suspend our disbelief for these glaring issues, we can sure as hell suspend them for the sake of gameplay accessibility for an entire class.

The people in Elder Scrolls might very well know how vampirism and lycanthropy is being transmitted and thus have a more humane view on the poor diseased souls. After all, during the days of leprosy people had no other way of defending themselves from it other than to shun people.
I have no issues with necromancers being chased by guards for summoning the dead. I'd like to see pet sorcs being treated the same..

DocFrost72

I'm sorry you don't enjoy the mechanic, OP. I'm enjoying it heaps; gives actual weight to what I'm doing. Also benefits my RP as a misunderstood fallen hero type character. Kinda silly to be playing a Necromancer off as a totally acceptable thing, at this time and in this lore. It's far more interesting (to me) to be one that people fear and hate, yet to resist the urge to fall into the cycle myself. To help those who spit in my direction (gods, please be only metaphorical!).

For what it is worth, transformed ww should be a crime. Using vamp abilities is already a crime.

Minno

With GCD still messed up, everything else is a non issue. Just a noise thread.

vesselwiththepestle

Minno wrote: »

With GCD still messed up, everything else is a non issue. Just a noise thread.

I thought it got fixed? It's in the patch notes. It definitely got better?

mcagatayg

they gonna remove it after too many ppl complain... just like everything else...

wheem_ESO

The players that like this tedious mechanic can always just head-cannon being the hated/feared/whatever-else Necromancer, whether they're actually evil or just misunderstood. But I don't want my personal gameplay to suffer because some people want this irritating mechanic to be active for everyone, just to inconsistently suit their own individual roleplay desires.

I can ride an undead mount while personally being polymorphed into a daedra, then transform into a Werewolf in the middle of town and no one will care. But if I exit WW form and accidentally bump a key that summons a Spirit Mender? Absolutely unacceptable - guards! GUARDS!

If I want to duel for fun or for testing builds, I should be able to do so in the same place(s) as everyone else without uniquely racking up tens of thousands of gold in bounties. Players also shouldn't be slapped with bounties for doing quests in populated areas; do you know how easy it would be for a new player to owe more money than they could even pay if they're doing the first portion of the Glenumbra quest line, for example? And making specific quest NPCs not care about Necromancy, which is how things are right now, is just a half-arsed exception to a half-arsed mechanic.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I'm sorry you don't enjoy the mechanic, OP. I'm enjoying it heaps; gives actual weight to what I'm doing. Also benefits my RP as a misunderstood fallen hero type character. Kinda silly to be playing a Necromancer off as a totally acceptable thing, at this time and in this lore. It's far more interesting (to me) to be one that people fear and hate, yet to resist the urge to fall into the cycle myself. To help those who spit in my direction (gods, please be only metaphorical!).

For what it is worth, transformed ww should be a crime. Using vamp abilities is already a crime.

Using Vampire Abilities is most certainly not a crime - you can Mist Form all over the place, in front of any NPC in the game, and they're not going to care at all.

Minno wrote: »

With GCD still messed up, everything else is a non issue. Just a noise thread.

That was fixed on Monday.

Azaduur

Deathlord92 wrote: »

A vampire will not announce he is a vampire at least not this vampire 😎

Didn't you though? Didn't you...

majulook

They should fully expand the Justice System by having City and town guards also attack, Sorcerers that have Deadra pets summoned, Werewolf in WW form, Vampires at a specific stage (maybe stage 3 or higher), and public Dueling.

Davadin

LinearParadox wrote: »

The interaction with the Necro and Justice System is still in. SMH.

"But, Muh 'mursion" you say...
Yes, Immersion... don't wanna break our precious immersion, what with Sorcs waltzing through towns with a cadre of Daedra in tow, stage 4 vampires walking around in the sun with no penalties and having cordial conversations with shopkeepers and guards, huge ravenous Werewolves being ignored as they consume bodies of fallen men and mer in plain sight.

"But, muh Justice System" you say...
Yes, the Justice System that wasn't even in the game for the first two years and everyone got along fine. The Justice System that, when finally implemented, was gutted and mostly scrapped to "prevent griefing" by other players. I guess it's okay if NPCs grief you though, because that's a 'gameplay mechanic'.

Have fun trying to duel in or around towns, while everyone else can easily and without concern.
Have fun trying to use your class-defining abilities while constantly looking over your shoulder for a random traveling merchant or NPC that might 'catch' you.
Have fun eating penalties and bounties just trying to play the game.
Have fun gimping yourself and not using your toolkit out of frustration and paranoia of the above.

Yup, can't wait to play a Necromancer!

good. that'll reduce the amount of new Necros when Els is released........

Mayrael

Using skills in Cities is immersion breaking. Daedra pets, chickens from hell and skelleton mounts are immersion breaking. In general everything except of standing or walking (not running!) is immersion breaking! Blah blah blah... That's an MMO, deal with it! It won't be Skyrim online or whatever, unless all people will quit, then please be my quest, feeel the immersion. Stop QQ princesses.

wheem_ESO

majulook wrote: »

They should fully expand the Justice System by having City and town guards also attack, Sorcerers that have Deadra pets summoned, Werewolf in WW form, Vampires at a specific stage (maybe stage 3 or higher), and public Dueling.

That's one option, and it would at least keep things somewhat consistent. I would very much prefer they just do away with all of that nonsense, though, and leave the justice system to things that one interacts with on purpose (and add an option to turn off accidental theft).

Players shouldn't be punished with tedium just for wanting to be a Magicka build that actually has some mobility in PvP (ie, Stage 4 Vampirism), or for playing a certain spec of a certain class and not wanting to switch up their ability bars every time they get near civilization. It's all just added annoyance for no real benefit, and I expect significant amounts of complaining from players starting on Monday.

Can people really get immersed in an MMO with all the various character names, guild names, costumes, polymorphs, mounts, various behaviors, etc...that are so pervasive? Seeing a guy named something like XXEliteSniperKillerXX bunny hopping through town with the most ridiculous looking face and outfit he can possibly put together makes you feel like you're really in Tamriel? Even once he starts dueling a goblin-polymorphed Pet Sorc and transforms into a Werewolf in the middle of town? Come on...

Minno

wheem_ESO wrote: »

The players that like this tedious mechanic can always just head-cannon being the hated/feared/whatever-else Necromancer, whether they're actually evil or just misunderstood. But I don't want my personal gameplay to suffer because some people want this irritating mechanic to be active for everyone, just to inconsistently suit their own individual roleplay desires.

I can ride an undead mount while personally being polymorphed into a daedra, then transform into a Werewolf in the middle of town and no one will care. But if I exit WW form and accidentally bump a key that summons a Spirit Mender? Absolutely unacceptable - guards! GUARDS!

If I want to duel for fun or for testing builds, I should be able to do so in the same place(s) as everyone else without uniquely racking up tens of thousands of gold in bounties. Players also shouldn't be slapped with bounties for doing quests in populated areas; do you know how easy it would be for a new player to owe more money than they could even pay if they're doing the first portion of the Glenumbra quest line, for example? And making specific quest NPCs not care about Necromancy, which is how things are right now, is just a half-arsed exception to a half-arsed mechanic.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I'm sorry you don't enjoy the mechanic, OP. I'm enjoying it heaps; gives actual weight to what I'm doing. Also benefits my RP as a misunderstood fallen hero type character. Kinda silly to be playing a Necromancer off as a totally acceptable thing, at this time and in this lore. It's far more interesting (to me) to be one that people fear and hate, yet to resist the urge to fall into the cycle myself. To help those who spit in my direction (gods, please be only metaphorical!).

For what it is worth, transformed ww should be a crime. Using vamp abilities is already a crime.

Using Vampire Abilities is most certainly not a crime - you can Mist Form all over the place, in front of any NPC in the game, and they're not going to care at all.

Minno wrote: »

With GCD still messed up, everything else is a non issue. Just a noise thread.

That was fixed on Monday.

link to the numbers proving otherwise? According to some the post GCD is still causing issues and no one knows why (see screens below).

[added spoiler tags]

Wolfpaw

Just a little marketing hype to give depth to a new class, I'm sure it will be removed down the road.

DisgracefulMind

Out of everything wrong with this PTS cycle and patch, this is what we're worried about?

iRaivyne

I think it would be great if having sorc pets in town triggered a bounty. I also think it would be great if fighting other players in town caused a bounty. Towns are laggy enough. I'm all for it, let's unify the justice system, PLEASE!

wheem_ESO

Minno wrote: »

link to the numbers proving otherwise? According to some the post GCD is still causing issues and no one knows why (see

We must be talking about two different GCD issues. With this being a thread about Necromancers, I (and at least one other poster, apparently) assumed you were referring to the bug with the Reusable Parts passive that triggered a GCD each time a Necromancer "pet" exploded or expired, which was indeed fixed on Monday.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Out of everything wrong with this PTS cycle and patch, this is what we're worried about?

I don't see it as the only issue, of course, but it would be nice to at least not have to deal with this annoyance on top of Magicka Necromancer's terrible offense in PvP. That offense will take time and effort to fix - if it even happens at all - while this should be fairly simple. I expect them to let it go live as-is though, and eventually change it when tons of people start complaining because of how tedious and half-arsed of a mechanic it is.