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"We will narrow the Floor and Ceiling of DPS" PTS ceiling now 90k+

  • Lapin_Logic
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    Everyone, literally EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has the potential to hit 50k well, lets maybe say 40-45k solo singletarget 6 million Dummy DPS. without exceptions.
    Those numbers are totally arbitrary.

    Not at all. If you really want to, you can do 40k. everyone can. You wonder why I chose those numbers?

    50k is actually pretty good. You can reach that even with making mistakes in your rotation. While you have top end gear.
    40-45k I chose because some people may have disabilities and so on. But 40k is possible for everyone. With the points I made in my post.
    Unless you simply do not want to improve yourself.

    But we are not talking about the players that wanna be the very best like no one ever was. We are talking about player that don't know what Julianos is or even that crafting stations in the wild offer different sets to the ones that drop.
    The ones who stay on one bar all the time, or run Resto a Clanfear and Twilight or Impenetrable in PVE because they don't know mobs can't crit you, to them this is a build.
    But they still have every right to buy Scale caller Peak because it mentions Dragon's just like Skyrim and they want to play it, they are not going to magically look up Alcast and say "Ok, first I need to get Burning spellweave, then grind AA, HRC, CR because that is what he is using."
    They come from a different world and just want to play a 'game' and don't realise they are a burden, they are just happy to be there and "Try"
  • Lapin_Logic
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Floor is where it was 3 years ago ? 3 years ago 20k+ was considered ok DPS 30k was already really good. Now You can get 20k DPS selfbuffed by putting the brick on 1 button and leaving the room.

    This is simply not possible for the average player, or else the average dps would be significantly higher than it actually is. I am so tired of hearing folk say just hold down a button and get over 20k dps. If you are max CPs, gold gear with Maelstrom weapons, maybe... which the average player simply isnt and is unlikely ever to be.

    How do folk think it makes the average player feel, or the newer less experienced players feel, when they may be working hard at their builds and rotations but unable to reach 20k... being told just hold down a button and its easy, when the fact is for them, it isnt.

    Here is 20k parse without vMA weapon , with all non DLC easy to obtain sets in purple quality except weapon.

    MPNc9WC.png

    Here is the rotation I used to achieve that

    PGcDp0b.png

    Yes I had max CP with that parse but person with 300 CP can use just 1 ability and hold 1 button and achieve 20k+. 20k DPS is a meme these days same as people claiming it's hard to achieve that.

    ***Stam DK results may differ from those displayed, Iron sold separately.
  • SidraWillowsky
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    This is simply not possible for the average player, or else the average dps would be significantly higher than it actually is. I am so tired of hearing folk say just hold down a button and get over 20k dps. If you are max CPs, gold gear with Maelstrom weapons, maybe... which the average player simply isnt and is unlikely ever to be.

    How do folk think it makes the average player feel, or the newer less experienced players feel, when they may be working hard at their builds and rotations but unable to reach 20k... being told just hold down a button and its easy, when the fact is for them, it isnt.

    (I may have some off like this in earlier posts here and if I did I apologize. Pulling 15-20k is ALSO something to be happy with/proud about. It's not easy)

    It's NOT easy and, more frustratingly, it's NOT intuitive in any sense of the word. I was getting 2k DPS at CP 200+ because I had zero idea about how to go about optimizing my rotation, nor was I even aware that rotation was a thing. Don't even get me started on light attack weaving- I support it btw but I would never in a million years have figured that out myself. I think that weaving is here to stay; tips that come up on load screens talk about it. If that's going to be the case then ZOS needs to introduce some sort of extensive tutorial and practice system. Aside from NBs, who have the Grim Focus Counter addon, I feel like there's a dearth of tools to help everyone else know when their LAs land, especially for console users. That makes it really, really hard to tell when you're actually weaving.

    I was able to get to 40k DPS because I had help.... lots and lots of it. A guild where members sat me down and helped me extensively and introduced me to other sources of information (Alcast, etc). Without them I wouldn't have known where to look and how to get better, mostly because I wouldn't have even known what I was doing wrong in the first place.
    Not at all. If you really want to, you can do 40k. everyone can.

    I agree, though not with the same rather flippant attitude. I'm historically quite bad at video games, so I do feel that if *I* can do it, most anyone can... but I was given the toolkit. Most people don't have that. I don't think it's at all fair to expect people to just... pull 15k or 20k or 40k out of thin air. That's like throwing someone into a pool and yelling at them to swim... is the potential there? Yes. Do they necessarily have the right tools to learn? Probably not.

    That said, people shouldn't feel like they HAVE to reach that high. I spend a huge amount of my in-game time working on my DPS and I'm definitely a minority in terms of that.

    IDK, I want LA weaving to stay a thing but I also want more resources available to people who want to improve their DPS, and first and foremost want people to stop acting like everyone needs to be trying to pull 40k or whatever. It's just not necessary for the majority of game content.
  • SidraWillowsky
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Here is 20k parse without vMA weapon , with all non DLC easy to obtain sets in purple quality except weapon.

    1. LOL @ the pic
    2. But it's a lot easier to pull 20k DPS if you're ABLE to pull much higher. What's easy to you from your level isn't easy to everyone. You still have the advantage of the hours put into perfecting that rotation.

    Yes everyone can do it, but personally it took me a LOT of work to hit 20k. Once you surpass it and clear 30ish k, of course 20k seems easy. But not up front, and I feel like these posts are really going to discourage people trying their best.

  • Lapin_Logic
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    This is simply not possible for the average player, or else the average dps would be significantly higher than it actually is. I am so tired of hearing folk say just hold down a button and get over 20k dps. If you are max CPs, gold gear with Maelstrom weapons, maybe... which the average player simply isnt and is unlikely ever to be.

    How do folk think it makes the average player feel, or the newer less experienced players feel, when they may be working hard at their builds and rotations but unable to reach 20k... being told just hold down a button and its easy, when the fact is for them, it isnt.

    (I may have some off like this in earlier posts here and if I did I apologize. Pulling 15-20k is ALSO something to be happy with/proud about. It's not easy)

    It's NOT easy and, more frustratingly, it's NOT intuitive in any sense of the word. I was getting 2k DPS at CP 200+ because I had zero idea about how to go about optimizing my rotation, nor was I even aware that rotation was a thing. Don't even get me started on light attack weaving- I support it btw but I would never in a million years have figured that out myself. I think that weaving is here to stay; tips that come up on load screens talk about it. If that's going to be the case then ZOS needs to introduce some sort of extensive tutorial and practice system. Aside from NBs, who have the Grim Focus Counter addon, I feel like there's a dearth of tools to help everyone else know when their LAs land, especially for console users. That makes it really, really hard to tell when you're actually weaving.

    I was able to get to 40k DPS because I had help.... lots and lots of it. A guild where members sat me down and helped me extensively and introduced me to other sources of information (Alcast, etc). Without them I wouldn't have known where to look and how to get better, mostly because I wouldn't have even known what I was doing wrong in the first place.
    Not at all. If you really want to, you can do 40k. everyone can.

    I agree, though not with the same rather flippant attitude. I'm historically quite bad at video games, so I do feel that if *I* can do it, most anyone can... but I was given the toolkit. Most people don't have that. I don't think it's at all fair to expect people to just... pull 15k or 20k or 40k out of thin air. That's like throwing someone into a pool and yelling at them to swim... is the potential there? Yes. Do they necessarily have the right tools to learn? Probably not.

    That said, people shouldn't feel like they HAVE to reach that high. I spend a huge amount of my in-game time working on my DPS and I'm definitely a minority in terms of that.

    IDK, I want LA weaving to stay a thing but I also want more resources available to people who want to improve their DPS, and first and foremost want people to stop acting like everyone needs to be trying to pull 40k or whatever. It's just not necessary for the majority of game content.

    An Audio or obvious graphical effect that plays when you weave perfectly. At the moment graphical wise sometimes you don't even know if it registered the light attack at all
  • JadonSky
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    So i hit about 35-38k on dummy. But when I actually get in a trial idk if i'm hitting the same just because the lag in the game prevents me from getting my rotation off as well as I can against a dummy in a room alone. But I assume it could be higher just bc of the debuffs and buffs you get from other players in the group. So does a test dummy really give you an accurate enough picture?
  • SidraWillowsky
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    JadonSky wrote: »
    So i hit about 35-38k on dummy. But when I actually get in a trial idk if i'm hitting the same just because the lag in the game prevents me from getting my rotation off as well as I can against a dummy in a room alone. But I assume it could be higher just bc of the debuffs and buffs you get from other players in the group. So does a test dummy really give you an accurate enough picture?

    I think it gives a general idea of what sort of damage output to expect from a player when you consider their role and a given boss situation. One could be reasonably confident that a stamblade who can pull 50k on a dummy is going to do well during the final Z'Maja stage in Cloudrest, or during the final bosses in Sanctum Ophidia or Aetherian Archive, but the CR minibosses or any sort of highly mobile fight where heavy melee damage is not always possible... not so much. Especially if the stamblade is wearing Relequen during their parse, which they probably are.

    I do think that higher numbers are likely indicative of a player having put a lot of work into their damage output, which accounts for a lot IMO. This isn't to say that the same's not true for lower numbers, but I'd estimate that probably 95% of the ESO player base would need to do some pretty extensive practicing to get above 30k and beyond.
  • kathandira
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    The numbers you hit on a stationary target can be the same in a Trial with a stationary target. But on mobile fights, everything changes. Your "Damage Per Second" will decrease as your rotation will not be complete, and there will be pauses in dealing damage during maneuvering.

    That is an additional part about playing this game that training dummies don't teach you. Mechanics and how to maximize your damage while you are switching targets and avoiding damage.
    Edited by kathandira on May 16, 2019 7:47PM
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • Juhasow
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Here is 20k parse without vMA weapon , with all non DLC easy to obtain sets in purple quality except weapon.

    1. LOL @ the pic
    2. But it's a lot easier to pull 20k DPS if you're ABLE to pull much higher. What's easy to you from your level isn't easy to everyone. You still have the advantage of the hours put into perfecting that rotation.

    Yes everyone can do it, but personally it took me a LOT of work to hit 20k. Once you surpass it and clear 30ish k, of course 20k seems easy. But not up front, and I feel like these posts are really going to discourage people trying their best.

    Yeah it took me hours to perfectly hold 1 button...
  • Starlock
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    Not at all. If you really want to, you can do 40k. everyone can. You wonder why I chose those numbers?
    You don't actually explain your statistics, you just repeat them with more details. They are still arbitrary and just a claim without proof. How much training do you expect from a player to achieve those numbers? Calling 50k DPS the FLOOR is insane. If you do that, you don't need to talk about the FLOOR at all.

    It's also insane to discount the very real impact of one's internet connection and that players have different gameplay priorities. The conversation shouldn't even be about "fault." It's precisely that language - a failure to take the time to understand that other players have different values that they are not willing to compromise - that creates so much animosity. The game then exacerbates this by allowing far too big of a gap between top-end damage dealers and bottom-end damage dealers.

    That said, it's worth putting all that into perspective. Within the last year, I went and played another MMO. After that experience, I can't honestly say that the gaps between top-end and bottom-end damage dealers in ESO is all that terrible. In this other game, it was a degree of absurd that it robbed dungeons of all enjoyment entirely. Imagine if in ESO the top-end damage dealers could kill a dungeon boss in less than five seconds using maybe two or three attacks. It was among the worst gaming experiences I've ever had and gave me some needed perspective. As bad as ESO is on this issue, it could be a great deal worse.
  • p00tx
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    It has almost nothing to do with the gear. I flipped my Stamblade from PvP to PvE two days ago. I equipped the divines Relequen body pieces and Advancing Yokeda weapons and jewelry that I had been collecting. Since I don't have the MA bow yet, I threw on the Master's Bow and topped it off with Velidreth. I adjusted my champ points accordingly, set up my bars properly, and made a stack of Weapon power pots. I went into my parsing room and began hammering out a rotation on a 3m dummy.

    Turns out I suck at stam. All of the best gear in the game didn't put me over 23k on my first go around. I was shocked because I had assumed my gear and CP would carry me much more than that. After all, I have a Magplar hitting 50.5k, and I'm not even a great player, so it had to be my gear carrying me.

    I tried again, and hit 25k. Again, and again, and again, until I started creeping up through the 30s. Turns out I just needed to practice and get used to how to place dots on a stam (not as easily barswap cancelled). I'm still working on it, and my numbers still aren't great yet, but I know it's all because I'm not used to it and I need to put in some work to get this thing ready to run some real content.

    TLDR; DPS has far less to do with gear and/or CP, and far more to do with how much work you're willing to put in to improve. If you feel you should be able to just face-roll in front of a boss in order to kill it, then be happy with your 20k dps and call it a day. You're fine the way you are. If you want to hit the big numbers needed to push harder content, then warm up those thumbs and get ready to put in some time. That's the biggest contributor to high dps.
    PC/Xbox NA Mindmender|Swashbuckler Supreme|Planes Breaker|Dawnbringer|Godslayer|Immortal Redeemer|Gryphon Heart|Tick-tock Tormentor|Dro-m'Athra Destroyer|Stormproof|Grand Overlord|Grand Mastercrafter|Master Grappler|Tamriel Hero
  • SoLooney
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    SoLooney wrote: »
    You can have the best gear, all golded out, max cp, and still pull miserable dps.

    Dps is a lot of skill behind. Floor will always still as low as it is if players dont put in the effort to practice rotation and weaving.

    I see cp 300players with purple armor, gold weapons who still pull 25k with a solid rotation

    So if you dont practice, dont complain about low dps

    Im not complaining about My Dps, it is random group of the days DPS, and god willing no amount of my practice can make someone else good.

    That's like bad and lazy people complaining that people are too good at sports when there are a lot of people who are bad at it. You don't become a top player in anything if you dont practice at it

    You think people get godly at something sitting on their butts and complaining about people being too good? Absolutely not

    There is Google and YouTube, it is 2019, the internet has been out for a while now, not doing any research or asking around is just plain ignorance

    So no, the ceiling could be as high it can. It's up to the players whether they want to get off the floor. And if with effort and practice, it doesnt work out, then oh well, you cant be good at everything

    TLDR, dont expect to be good at something without putting work towards it
  • FakeFox
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    So the floor is players literally doing nothing but light attacks? How and especially why would you raise that up? I totally understand that not everyone is able to play rotations on a elite level, but using a somewhat reasonable build and at least a few actual skills shouldn't be too much to ask for. If people can't even be bothered to put in a minimum effort, the game should not be made even easier for them. Raising the floor means rewarding people for doing nothing.
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • Cerra
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    ...thinks 5 heavy on a Magicka sorc is good for their survivability...

    7 is better, that's what I use on my Magicka Sorc... of course she's a tank.

  • vesselwiththepestle
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    Well, a bad rotation can be worse than just light attacking or heavy attacking or using a good rotation without light attack weaving.

    I think the game just needs better tutorials. Or something like an advanced tutorial, which gets available at level 15, which repeats some stuff (long forgotten until then) etc.

    A problem is, that parts of this game are very easy and as a new player you just won't need high dps, even when you start running normal dungeons, most the stuff like blocking, dodging, doing high dps is barely needed if at all. Then you start veteran dungeons and all is different, by then the players have long forgotten that there is a thing like block, bash or dodge. Also things like how does a dot work, what's a channel, how does damage scaling work...
    Edited by vesselwiththepestle on May 17, 2019 6:55AM
    1000+ CP
    PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant

    Give me my wings back!
  • FangOfTheTwoMoons
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    Everyone, literally EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has the potential to hit 50k well, lets maybe say 40-45k solo singletarget 6 million Dummy DPS. without exceptions.
    Those numbers are totally arbitrary.

    Not at all. If you really want to, you can do 40k. everyone can. You wonder why I chose those numbers?

    50k is actually pretty good. You can reach that even with making mistakes in your rotation. While you have top end gear.
    40-45k I chose because some people may have disabilities and so on. But 40k is possible for everyone. With the points I made in my post.
    Unless you simply do not want to improve yourself.

    Lmfao 40k because someone has a disability? You're delusional. You make it sound so easy but it's not. I'm not advocating to make things super simple but you can't just talk like it's that easy to obtain high dps. I agree that you have to put in time to get there but you discredit the skill celling by saying "unless you have a disability you should be pulling 45k+." For the record I do 49k on a 6m so I know how hard it is to practice. I'm still not satisfied with it and that's what makes me want to improve. People all move at their own pace.

    On a different note ESO should have a group finder like FF14 does. It lets you choose what kind of people you want to group with. I'm sure some people would feel more comfortable playing with others who are learning content but they get grouped up with people who don't want to bother helping anyone. I know if I had to choice between queuing for Experienced players or Progressing players I would still queue for progressing players because I like helping people learn the game.
  • Elwendryll
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    I'm not advocating to make things super simple but you can't just talk like it's that easy to obtain high dps. I agree that you have to put in time to get there but you discredit the skill celling by saying "unless you have a disability you should be pulling 45k+." For the record I do 49k on a 6m so I know how hard it is to practice. I'm still not satisfied with it and that's what makes me want to improve. People all move at their own pace.

    I always try to remember how hard it is to improve and how long it took me. I'm barely above 40k with external fracture on 3M (I'm not helping myself by playing stamsorc, with 2H and without Relequen). It took me years to get there. Now even on a very bad pure solo parse I'm still above 30k.

    Anyway, I realized how hard it was when I tried to teach my little brother how to dps. He's usually very good at video games, like insanely good, very pvp oriented and meta defining, but not for ESO. To my surprise he barely did 14k on his CP ~380 Stam DK. I guess we'll wait for Necro and invest the time needed to build the muscle memory, I want him to reach 30k+ so we can do hard content.

    P.S: Nice Username
    Edited by Elwendryll on May 17, 2019 9:57AM
    PC - EU - France - AD
    Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
    Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
    Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.

    All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH
  • ChunkyCat
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    I can’t even spell 90k dps.
  • NBrookus
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    The typical new player is not only clueless, they don't know what they don't know. You can't google when you don't even know what question to ask. Noob friendly guilds are the MVPs out there for sure.

    Animation cancelling, especially light attack weaving, is a bad mechanic because it's a hidden mechanic. It's not intuitive, it's horrible ergonomics and it disproportionately affects people with bad ping or reflexes. This isn't an FPS, it's a game that specifically attracts players who would avoid FPS games because of their internet/physical/whatever limitations, or because they want to RP and that may not include being a badass fighter. Or people may have limited playtime, and they may not choose to spend that time finding a dummy and practicing a rotation.

    When you are random grouping with dungeon finder, there's a good chance you are going to get grouped with a person who hasn't a clue about all those fancy rotation things, might know but can't do them, and/or just may not care. You can choose to teach the ones that want to learn, you can choose to not use the group finder, or you can make yourself such a badass fighter you can solo vet dungeons and then you will no longer care about the dps of that bow/resto templar in heavy armor.
  • Chims
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    Why don't they just nerf the damage that light attacks do. That would lower the ceiling. I feel like properly weaving light attacks should add maybe 5k DPS at most. No one plays this game to light attack constantly they play it to use skills. There is too much focus on weaving. If you can't properly weave you aren't going to get high enough dps to do any vet trials. Unless someone wants to post a parse only using heavy attacks and skills to prove otherwise.

    They should also remove the vMA staff from buffing light attacks which makes it BiS and forces its use along with wall of elements in any higher parse.
    Edited by Chims on May 17, 2019 5:35PM
  • DyingIsEasy
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    NBrookus wrote: »
    Animation cancelling, especially light attack weaving, is a bad mechanic because it's a hidden mechanic. It's not intuitive, it's horrible ergonomics and it disproportionately affects people with bad ping or reflexes.

    You are making up so much ***.
    How does weaving require any reflexes?
    You absolutely don't have to react at all. It's just two simple button presses.
  • Chims
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    I also think there isn't much skill to actually weaving. Besides the TOS there is little to stop people from just macroing all these light attack weaves. Sure you can learn to do it on your own by why bother? You can setup a macro to do your entire rotation with perfect timing outside the game that would never be detectable. Or why not just add a macro to each key press that just shoots a light attack first?

    People who don't know how powerful weaving is don't understand how much dps it can actually add. Look at a 40-45k dps parse. weaving light attacks is likely over 25% of that damage so it adds 10k or more. Thats significant its the difference between a normal trial and vet DLC trials in terms of the dps it adds.
    Edited by Chims on May 17, 2019 6:21PM
  • ZeroXFF
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    NBrookus wrote: »
    Animation cancelling, especially light attack weaving, is a bad mechanic because it's a hidden mechanic. It's not intuitive, it's horrible ergonomics and it disproportionately affects people with bad ping or reflexes.

    You are making up so much ***.
    How does weaving require any reflexes?
    You absolutely don't have to react at all. It's just two simple button presses.

    So you're admitting that it takes no skill? Because then you're disproving one of the 2 pro-weaving arguments and confirming one anti-weaving argument. It takes no skill but it adds unnecessary complication without adding any depth.
  • DyingIsEasy
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    ZeroXFF wrote: »
    NBrookus wrote: »
    Animation cancelling, especially light attack weaving, is a bad mechanic because it's a hidden mechanic. It's not intuitive, it's horrible ergonomics and it disproportionately affects people with bad ping or reflexes.

    You are making up so much ***.
    How does weaving require any reflexes?
    You absolutely don't have to react at all. It's just two simple button presses.

    So you're admitting that it takes no skill? Because then you're disproving one of the 2 pro-weaving arguments and confirming one anti-weaving argument. It takes no skill but it adds unnecessary complication without adding any depth.

    Your assumption that the requirement for reflexes is a necessary condition for an action to be skillful is incorrect.
  • Royaji
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    Chims wrote: »
    Why don't they just nerf the damage that light attacks do. That would lower the ceiling. I feel like properly weaving light attacks should add maybe 5k DPS at most. No one plays this game to light attack constantly they play it to use skills. There is too much focus on weaving. If you can't properly weave you aren't going to get high enough dps to do any vet trials. Unless someone wants to post a parse only using heavy attacks and skills to prove otherwise.

    They should also remove the vMA staff from buffing light attacks which makes it BiS and forces its use along with wall of elements in any higher parse.

    Except Light Attacks got buffed so much because of all those bow-light-attack-spam-from-the-nearest-bush players. ZOS wanted the game to be accessible to them. No one at the high end ever wanted LA to deal that much damage. It just happens to be that weaving is utilising those Light Attacks.

    And claiming there is no focus on weaving is not entirely correct. Multiple sets require weaving (Relequen) and many skills are based around LA weaving (Merciless) and become entirely useless without it.

    Also do not expect WoE to go anywhere even if vMA staff was deleted from the game. ground based AoEs are balanced to have the most damage since they are technically the hardest skills to land. They are never going out of meta unless a massive rework to the whole combat system happens.

  • idk
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    mague wrote: »
    To late, it got out of hand. It was foreseen but happened. Zeni didnt want it, but gave the players what they demanded.

    LOL, this was not demanded. It is nerfs players call out for most of all. Zos just does not know how to balance their game, which is one of the most, if not most, complicated of the current major MMORPGs.
  • vesselwiththepestle
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    Chims wrote: »
    If you can't properly weave you aren't going to get high enough dps to do any vet trials. Unless someone wants to post a parse only using heavy attacks and skills to prove otherwise.

    30k dps self-buffed should be enough, as in my progress group we've done craglorn HM's with several players at 25-35k dps in a raid parse. So here's the pic.

    dQcEbaY.png

    I lost Relequen Stacks, though, and I forgot to put Dawnbreaker on the front bar. I did not use Molten Armaments, so you should get similar results on the other classes. Of yourse you lose lots of dps, but you still get viable numbers to complete vet trials. You could optimize it and build around heavy attacks, I could have put on Spawn of Mephala which should be ~1k more dps than Valkyn Skoria (but also 1.2k less health), also it might be even worth to lose one dot, so the uptimes of all used dots get higher (notice how Blood Craze is only 65%).

    On a side note, if someone has trouble with bar swapping, the same character is at 35k dps when using the dw front-bar only, although with light attack weaving in that case.

    On a Pet Sorc heavy attack rotations and one-bar-builds are a lot stronger, though.
    Edited by vesselwiththepestle on May 19, 2019 6:12AM
    1000+ CP
    PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant

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  • thedude33
    thedude33
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Katahdin wrote: »
    The problem is anything that brings up the floor also raises the ceiling and anything that lowers the ceiling also lowers the floor.

    There is no way to raise the floor and lower the ceiling

    We had a bad contractor. We asked him to lower the ceiling and raise the floor of our house. Didn't work out too well. We had to duck walk to get around. Was really hard on the back
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
    1 Wins - 392 Losses (guy was AFK)

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