Savos_Saren wrote: »...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.
Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.
I'd love to see (and kill) all those mDKs next patch. Currently I'm having fun with my sDK, despite he still lacks a leg and a hand.
im having fun with mine in Live server.
how are your bars as sDK in PTS/Elswyr?
Savos_Saren wrote: »The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.
Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:
Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321
So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.
But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.
I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.
Wait really? I thought Axiom/Sun's 5pc bonuses do get reflected in the tooltips, just not in your character sheet.JumpmanLane wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.
Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:
Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321
So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.
But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.
I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.
Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.
So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.
JumpmanLane wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.
Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:
Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321
So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.
But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.
I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.
Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.
So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.
JumpmanLane wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.
Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:
Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321
So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.
But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.
I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.
Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.
So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.
Wait really? I thought Axiom/Sun's 5pc bonuses do get reflected in the tooltips, just not in your character sheet.JumpmanLane wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.
Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:
Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321
So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.
But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.
I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.
Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.
So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.
Savos_Saren wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.
Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:
Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321
So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.
But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.
I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.
Neither Sun nor Axiom show up on your tooltips though. They are expressed in damage done however. FYI lol.
So, you’d have to add like 800 spell damage to just your unbuffed 9700, add 20% for Major Sorcery, then add whatever for the stacks to get the actual damage. If tool tips say 19k I’d be surprised if the actual damage done wasn’t MORE than 21k if you add 800 spell damage.
I know that. The tooltips do reflect the 800 extra damage and i confirmed the damage on a target dummy in the PTS. It isn’t more. No need to be surprised, though.
Savos_Saren wrote: »Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.
Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.
Savos_Saren wrote: »The 21k screen shot that you have is most likely from three hits of an Ardent Flame ability bringing the whip up to 21k.
Let's say that you use Innate (400 spell dmg to whip) plus Silks (400 spell dmg to fire abilities) for a flat base value (no procs like BSW) for your whip. 2 spell damage and 1 recovery enchant for jewelry. Mage Mundus. Light armor on a Dunmer. Here are the whip values:
Unbuffed: 9758
Buffed with Molten Armaments: 10679
Buffed with Molten Armaments and three hits of Ardent Flame abilities: 19321
So Dunmer + Silks + Innate + 2 spell damage enchants + buffed still doesn't equal to that 21k screenshot. Again, I used Silks and Innate for the flat base value.
But, of course, someone could go even higher with a BSW proc, all damage enchants, the Apprentice mundus, etc... but your recovery/survivability would suffer.
I can also get on the PTS with a Dunmer Sorc/NB and use Innate + War Maiden + full damage enchants with the Apprentice, etc and show you a ridiculously high Crystal Frags/Spectral Bow proc. But that doesn't mean that anyone will actually wear any of those sets.
SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »I get there is no heal associated with this version of the whip, but does this 21k whip get buffed to 33% making it hit like 31k? and If so... that'd be like 38kish on vamps... half it for cyro and it's still 19k before resistances and without critting... Between brp resto, cauterize, embers, coag, and fragmented... it would seem healing will not be an issue.
Savos_Saren wrote: »...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.
Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.
Savos_Saren wrote: »@Dracane it isn’t a 19k spammable, though. You have to set it up with three attacks before you can use it. Once you use it- then you have to set it up again with three attacks.
Crystal Frags proc isn’t a spammable. But you can get it to proc within one attack. (RNG)
Spectral Bow isn’t a spammable- but you can get it to proc after 5 light attacks (cheaper than three class skills attacks).
And you think that Crystal Frags and Spectral Bow only read 9.5k when they proc? Whip is definitely not “twice as much.”
And, again, these other classes have a ranged execute that they can use in conjunction with their hard hitting skills. But you don’t bother acknowledging that?
Savos_Saren wrote: »Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.
Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.
Rookie numbers. I got 25k whip in pts. Some guy got 32k, but there was some glasscannon build.
Savos_Saren wrote: »Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.
Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.
An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.
Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.
Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.
Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.
Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.
An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.
Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.
Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.
Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.
psychotic13 wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.
Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.
None of the abilities you listed are spammable like lash, youre comparing apples and oranges.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.
Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.
An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.
Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.
Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.
Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.
False. First they introduced a minimul travel time for "in your face" casts. Then they reduced that minimum travel time. So no speed up at long ranges.
Use your *** gap closer and/or RAT. Or try to not stand out in the open with 28m of no cover.
psychotic13 wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.
Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.
None of the abilities you listed are spammable like lash, youre comparing apples and oranges.
Curious to see how it plays out, I'm glad MagDKs are getting a buff or two this patch
I must say though, it's not that hard to set up the burst. Activate FoO before you get to the target then:
Chains->Engulfing->Take Flight->Whip.
If you time it right, FoO should land just before the Whip and empowered by both Engulfing Flames and full Seething Fury. Same as Take Flight and the Whip itself. Also, throw 2 Empowered light attacks in the mix, an enchant proc and maybe (if you're lucky) a Skoria/Zaan proc and we're taking about a lot of damage in very short time.
Looking forward to trying it out.
And you know what else counters frags and merciless. Your wings genius. Seriously if you are getting burned down by a NB or a sorc with that much mitigation and without doing anything to them its most likely because you suck and not because frags and merciless are broken.Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.
Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.
An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.
Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.
Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.
Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.
Savos_Saren wrote: »...and here we go. A bunch of people rushing in to make comments about a single screenshot of a proc. I guess I need to go and make screenshots of every high Crystal Frag/Spectral Bow/Shalk/Blast Bones/Dark Flare proc and scream that it's unfair.
Edit: I forgot to add Dark Flare in that. Actually, I would like to test each build's niche proc and see who has the highest. I bet I could use flat rate sets (Innate + Slimecraw + Sun/War Maiden/Swamp Raider/Automaton) to see which abilities might be OP. Then we could debate who should be nerfed... especially if you can use some of those skills from range and combine them with an execute.
I'd love to see (and kill) all those mDKs next patch. Currently I'm having fun with my sDK, despite he still lacks a leg and a hand.
im having fun with mine in Live server.
how are your bars as sDK in PTS/Elswyr?
Till know, I'm going with Pierce armor, foss, vigor, empowering chains, wings UDBoS on live. Next patch I'll switch wings for RaT
Don't want to jump into the noxious waggon (pun intended), but if I do it, I'll just trade PA for it and maybe RaT for whip. In any case I don't like much that playing style
backbar: Injection, mist, GDB, Igneous, Volatile U Corrosive armor.
And you know what else counters frags and merciless. Your wings genius. Seriously if you are getting burned down by a NB or a sorc with that much mitigation and without doing anything to them its most likely because you suck and not because frags and merciless are broken.Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.
Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.
An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.
Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.
Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.
Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.
And yeah buddy, frags and merciless are so dangerous from 30 meters away to the point where NBs go in melee range to cast it and sorcs try to combo it with 4 different abilities and a CC to make it land.
But its ok i get it now. This isnt about frags vs merciless vs whip. This is more about "ill never be happy with the buffs i get until my class one shots everyone and doesnt die to anyone".
Savos_Saren wrote: »And you know what else counters frags and merciless. Your wings genius. Seriously if you are getting burned down by a NB or a sorc with that much mitigation and without doing anything to them its most likely because you suck and not because frags and merciless are broken.Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Again- you’re probably proving my point. You could stack all damage enchants, damage mundus, nirned weapons, beserk enchants on any class to have a ridiculously high lash/frag/spectral bow/shalk/blast bone/dark flare... but it’s not feasible.
Also, the fact that you can get a lash up to 19-21k is still constrained to melee range without any form of execute. If you took another class and stacked toward the highest frag/spectral bow/flare you can still hit a target from 28+ meters AND combine it with a ranged execute.
An ability being ranged comes with its own drawbacks like being a hell of a lot easier to counter.
Yes an ability being melee may be a little "harder" to use but when u are in a position to use it there is a much higher chance that ur opponent will eat it in the face than a slow projectile from 30 meters away which will give ur opponent more than enough time to get up, make a coffee, go in the toilet, come back and still have time to dodge, block, reflect absorb it etc.
Comparing abilities based on their range alone in PVP is kinda biased and doesn't really say much about which one is better.
Didn’t ZOS just speed up the projectile? And you know what else you can do at 30+ meters? Burn down a DK who can’t gap close to you. We have one ranged class ability that is lackluster compared to the damage of frags/bow.
And yeah buddy, frags and merciless are so dangerous from 30 meters away to the point where NBs go in melee range to cast it and sorcs try to combo it with 4 different abilities and a CC to make it land.
But its ok i get it now. This isnt about frags vs merciless vs whip. This is more about "ill never be happy with the buffs i get until my class one shots everyone and doesnt die to anyone".
Didn’t ever say I was unhappy about the change. I’m glad ZOS compensated mDKs for the nerfs in snares and I’m glad they’re finally bringing other classes up to the capabilities of Sorcs and NBs.