Make Incap Silence behavior > Eye of the storm (Smaller/melee range)

Royalthought

Instead of applying silence on the defender, apply a silence aura around the nightblade in a smaller radius.

That way incap still has a unique fuction but it can be countered with distance.

likecats

So basically a much stronger negate for 1/2 the cost.

Royalthought

likecats wrote: »

So basically a much stronger negate for 1/2 the cost.

Nope. Never suggested it be the size of negate.

Anyron

And whats difference?
Stambuilds are generaly faster than magbuilds. And have you ever heard about something like Gap closers?

1v1 silence radius moving with you is clearly op. Thats why negate, with almost double cost, cannot be shifted to another location

Also giving stambuilds tool to shut down magbuilds is wrong because there isnt anything magicka could use to shut down stamina.
And since magicka defensive tools are spells, you cannot rely on stamina defensive tools, such as roll dodge and block

Royalthought

Anyron wrote: »

And whats difference?
Stambuilds are generaly faster than magbuilds. And have you ever heard about something like Gap closers?

1v1 silence radius moving with you is clearly op. Thats why negate, with almost double cost, cannot be shifted to another location

Negate can safely be casted from range.

Its 3 seconds. Exit the range, cast a shield. By the time they close the distance the timer is up.

likecats

Royalthought wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

So basically a much stronger negate for 1/2 the cost.

Nope. Never suggested it be the size of negate.

You suggested that it should be a movable negate, which is what makes your suggestion so strong.

This is besides the fact that incap is already a very potent ultimate, that does good damage and provides 20% dmg buff on target, and is significantly cheap compared to negate, also provides sustain with the new patch.

If you're also suggesting to make incap cost similar to negate, then I can sort of agree. But till then, no.

Royalthought

likecats wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

So basically a much stronger negate for 1/2 the cost.

Nope. Never suggested it be the size of negate.

You suggested that it should be a movable negate, which is what makes your suggestion so strong.

This is besides the fact that incap is already a very potent ultimate, that does good damage and provides 20% dmg buff on target, and is significantly cheap compared to negate, also provides sustain with the new patch.

If you're also suggesting to make incap cost similar to negate, then I can sort of agree. But till then, no.

Nope.

Negate is 12 seconds. Incap silence has a 3 second duration.

Negate has a 28 meter range and an 8 meter radius.

This discussion is about it effecting who the nightblade is directly on top of.

To insinuate that im suggesting a movable negate is incorrect.

This is simply taking the current incap on pts and giving defenders a way to counter it. As it stands, once applied we are silenced for 3 seconds.

With this change, roll away and youre free to cast.

StShoot

Royalthought wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

So basically a much stronger negate for 1/2 the cost.

Nope. Never suggested it be the size of negate.

You suggested that it should be a movable negate, which is what makes your suggestion so strong.

This is besides the fact that incap is already a very potent ultimate, that does good damage and provides 20% dmg buff on target, and is significantly cheap compared to negate, also provides sustain with the new patch.

If you're also suggesting to make incap cost similar to negate, then I can sort of agree. But till then, no.

Nope.

Negate is 12 seconds. Incap silence has a 3 second duration.

Negate has a 28 meter range and an 8 meter radius.

This discussion is about it effecting who the nightblade is directly on top of.

To insinuate that im suggesting a movable negate is incorrect.

This is simply taking the current incap on pts and giving defenders a way to counter it. As it stands, once applied we are silenced for 3 seconds.

With this change, roll away and youre free to cast.

your change would make it worse, because you could silence a whole group of magica players.

also the problem remains the same: nb is on you, nb casts incap-> you dodge (may or may not have enaugh time to cast a shield, depends on the nb)-> nb moves close again/gapcloses-> you dodge...-> you endup with no stam the nb fears you GG

Ranger209

I kind of like the idea, but it would be AoE unless it debuffed the target and somehow only then affected the person with the debuff while in the radius of the silence. Alternatively it could be a conal type debuff that projected from the user maybe 5 meters in front of him/her in a cone. Straight up Aoe even at 5 meters radius around the nightblade would be too powerful unless there is a way to make it only affect the target it was cast on. Incap/spin to win...yikes. If given some thought and done right though would be a very unique skill/debuff. Magsorc main here btw...kinda crazy magsorc.

Royalthought

StShoot wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

So basically a much stronger negate for 1/2 the cost.

Nope. Never suggested it be the size of negate.

You suggested that it should be a movable negate, which is what makes your suggestion so strong.

This is besides the fact that incap is already a very potent ultimate, that does good damage and provides 20% dmg buff on target, and is significantly cheap compared to negate, also provides sustain with the new patch.

If you're also suggesting to make incap cost similar to negate, then I can sort of agree. But till then, no.

Nope.

Negate is 12 seconds. Incap silence has a 3 second duration.

Negate has a 28 meter range and an 8 meter radius.

This discussion is about it effecting who the nightblade is directly on top of.

To insinuate that im suggesting a movable negate is incorrect.

This is simply taking the current incap on pts and giving defenders a way to counter it. As it stands, once applied we are silenced for 3 seconds.

With this change, roll away and youre free to cast.

your change would make it worse, because you could silence a whole group of magica players.

also the problem remains the same: nb is on you, nb casts incap-> you dodge (may or may not have enaugh time to cast a shield, depends on the nb)-> nb moves close again/gapcloses-> you dodge...-> you endup with no stam the nb fears you GG

Nope. Youre assuming some large radius.

I could change the OP to put emphasis on smaller radius but thats the difference.

Secondly it would be an improvement because you can actually exit the effect.

ProzTh3Almighty

3m radius wouldnt be too bad. 3m for 3 sec

Royalthought

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

3m radius wouldnt be too bad. 3m for 3 sec

Thats the idea. Adjust it as necessary but limiting it to melee range would be fine.

idk

Royalthought wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

So basically a much stronger negate for 1/2 the cost.

Nope. Never suggested it be the size of negate.

But you are suggesting a stronger negate than what it is right now with an ult that is low cost, increases the casters damage by 20% and does decent damage itself.

Tommy_The_Gun

- Remove Silence and replace with something else. Alternatively, remove silence and make ulti cheaper 120 ulti -> 110 or 100 or something like that. (imho best solution).

- Add small AOE area with target cap of 1 (only your target will be silenced). Leaving the AOE will remove silence. AOE will be stationary.
- Add VERY small AOE area with target cap of 1 (only your target will be silenced). Leaving the AOE will remove silence. AOE will be mobile, similar to Eye of the storm (moving with you, but it will be very small AOE).

Royalthought

idk wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

So basically a much stronger negate for 1/2 the cost.

Nope. Never suggested it be the size of negate.

But you are suggesting a stronger negate than what it is right now with an ult that is low cost, increases the casters damage by 20% and does decent damage itself.

So, do tell. Which aspects of negate am i suggesting we give incap?

8 meter radius? 12 seconds? Casting from range?

None. And without those, this isnt negate.

This grass is greener accusation is incorrect. It would be a 3 second > melee range aura.

This, again, would change incap to allow the target to escape the effect.

ProzTh3Almighty

My DBoS on my stam sorc/Warden/Dk/cost 99-120ult, AOE, Stuns, 21-24k burst 21-27k dot, gives me 3% weapons dmg and 20% more dmg to vamp and werewolf. My Leap on my Dk does 26k dmg AOE burst, permafrost on my warden does 42k plus over 8 seconds snares 70% and stuns and grant major protection. Just a few examples. Permafrost is the only one that isnt the same cost, 200 ult down to 180ish with the right build, ever lower if you wanna give up some sustain. The truth is SNb is strong because of cloak and people who struggle to counter it or high end players who use shade and cloak well. Plus playstyles that spam snipe and cloak are a nuisance. All in all seems to me to be well tuned in terms of cost vs benefit. Single target vs AOE, “cheap” vs “cheapish”, boost single target dmg vs boost all dmg and heals. The new silence is doodoo yes an i hope they return it to live status but i dont think its current version is overtuned i think its just overtuned in duels which isnt great to base adjustments off

ProzTh3Almighty

An ”overtuned” in duels against “inexperienced” players or single class players. A good Dk/Sorc/Templar will still eat you up equally hard in duels. Especially if you throw cloak out the window.

Royalthought

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

My DBoS on my stam sorc/Warden/Dk/cost 99-120ult, AOE, Stuns, 21-24k burst 21-27k dot, gives me 3% weapons dmg and 20% more dmg to vamp and werewolf. My Leap on my Dk does 26k dmg AOE burst, permafrost on my warden does 42k plus over 8 seconds snares 70% and stuns and grant major protection. Just a few examples. Permafrost is the only one that isnt the same cost, 200 ult down to 180ish with the right build, ever lower if you wanna give up some sustain. The truth is SNb is strong because of cloak and people who struggle to counter it or high end players who use shade and cloak well. Plus playstyles that spam snipe and cloak are a nuisance. All in all seems to me to be well tuned in terms of cost vs benefit. Single target vs AOE, “cheap” vs “cheapish”, boost single target dmg vs boost all dmg and heals. The new silence is doodoo yes an i hope they return it to live status but i dont think its current version is overtuned i think its just overtuned in duels which isnt great to base adjustments off

Its an interesting point you make.

I often hear duels arent great to balance around yet many single target skills were nerfed this patch while AoE stayed strong if not gotten stronger.

Single target skills are generally less effective in group play and moreso cater to 1v1.

So go figure

Royalthought

Ranger209 wrote: »

I kind of like the idea, but it would be AoE unless it debuffed the target and somehow only then affected the person with the debuff while in the radius of the silence. Alternatively it could be a conal type debuff that projected from the user maybe 5 meters in front of him/her in a cone. Straight up Aoe even at 5 meters radius around the nightblade would be too powerful unless there is a way to make it only affect the target it was cast on. Incap/spin to win...yikes. If given some thought and done right though would be a very unique skill/debuff. Magsorc main here btw...kinda crazy magsorc.

Late seeing this.

As long as the radius is melee range, its fine.

The reason spin2win is so strong is because its a 9 meter radius.

Thats definitely not what im suggesting for this.

Mayrael

Just remove the silence from incap.

brandonv516

I like this better than it being a debuff on a single player. At least you can move out of the radius, providing counterplay.

Guess we'll see with the notes.

Izaki

Anyron wrote: »

And whats difference?
Stambuilds are generaly faster than magbuilds. And have you ever heard about something like Gap closers?

1v1 silence radius moving with you is clearly op. Thats why negate, with almost double cost, cannot be shifted to another location

Also giving stambuilds tool to shut down magbuilds is wrong because there isnt anything magicka could use to shut down stamina.
And since magicka defensive tools are spells, you cannot rely on stamina defensive tools, such as roll dodge and block

Soul Assault against non Stamblade medium armor builds is a death sentence to be honest. Then again, Incap like it is right now on PTS is ridiculous.

Royalthought

brandonv516 wrote: »

I like this better than it being a debuff on a single player. At least you can move out of the radius, providing counterplay.

Guess we'll see with the notes.

So much for the patch notes.

Small aura wouldve definitely worked. They threw a break free on it.

Perhaps they dont know CC is what nbs used to land incap. Now that combo counters incap. lol