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My problem with Reanimate (The 3 man rez ulti of Necro)

Pr0Skygon
Pr0Skygon
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My problem is simple: It possess 1 of the most game changing mechanic in the game but only costs 200 ulti. This skill will most likely be slotted by tank and healer, especially PvE, that's totally legit. What not legit however, is that fact that it costs 50 less than horn, which is the most potent damage support skill in PvE right now. It also costs the same as Barrier.

But let's think about it for a moment. Barrier will provide about 22k shield, which is even more than standard dps health (17-18k). One problem however: Even with Barrier, you'll still get 1 shot by mechanic in dungeons (especially DLC dungeons) unless you're a tank (in certain situations). Meaning even with 200 ulti spent on Barrier, you're not 100% certain to bypass any boss mechanic. But with 200 ulti on Reanimate, you basically have an undo button on steroid. You not only avoid a wipe that your team deserve to receive for messing up, but as a tank or healer you can potentially gain back 15k resources. That is a crazy bargain for 200 ulti.

I do understand that this skill can also be used in PvP, but let's be real, if you wanna revive your fallen teammates, just use Forward Camp.

I suggestion to rebalance this skill is the following: Lower the cost to 150, and add a mechanic so that for every 50 extra ulti point, you can revive 1 more ally. This means the skill will cost less to revive 1 ally (which is a waste tbh) but cost 250 ulti to revive 3 allies, which to me is a much better deal for fixing your dumb friends's mistake.

But hey, that's just my idea XD Need some skooma after all of this typing.
  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    I'm just waiting for the first immortal 4man Stamcro tanky boi tower group to cause everyone to ragequit.

    Run around tower until you get 4x dawnbreakers up, boom. Someone die? The other 3 run around tower until you can pop rez ult.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    OP's idea is too complicated, ZOS will just shake their heads.

    Just ask them to raise the ultimate cost to 300. That will keep it from being spammed, at least.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • phantasmalD
    phantasmalD
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    I'm just waiting for the first immortal 4man Stamcro tanky boi tower group to cause everyone to ragequit.

    Run around tower until you get 4x dawnbreakers up, boom. Someone die? The other 3 run around tower until you can pop rez ult.

    Tower groups are already immortal tanky funrides.

    A templar wearing Kagrenac's can rez you in like ~2 seconds.
    Does this really bring something new to the table?
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    It costs 200 ultimate. Yes, that is true. But, if no-one dies, you will never use your ultimate. So, for an entire fight, if no-one dies, you have spent zero ultimate, just in case someone dies. Popping warhorn would be better for the group than sitting on ultimate for a fight, just in case. Seriously, this is an awful PVE ultimate and a waste of a bar slot. It's like running Immortal Warrior just in case you die. If you don't die, the set is a waste.
  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    I'm just waiting for the first immortal 4man Stamcro tanky boi tower group to cause everyone to ragequit.

    Run around tower until you get 4x dawnbreakers up, boom. Someone die? The other 3 run around tower until you can pop rez ult.

    Tower groups are already immortal tanky funrides.

    A templar wearing Kagrenac's can rez you in like ~2 seconds.
    Does this really bring something new to the table?

    Yes, it really does.

    Instant rez>>>>>>>2 second rez. It's literally infinitely faster! And it allows for an instant rez without the hampered mobility of a magplar. This allows for the pure stambro groups (which I have no problem with, and enjoy playing as on occasion) to reach a new level of hilarity.

    One thing I wonder--are the tweaks they are looking at making on the PTS to rezzes (making you have the ghost mode for 3 seconds, etc.) considered a necessary change because of this ult?
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
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    I'm just waiting for the first immortal 4man Stamcro tanky boi tower group to cause everyone to ragequit.

    Run around tower until you get 4x dawnbreakers up, boom. Someone die? The other 3 run around tower until you can pop rez ult.

    Tower groups are already immortal tanky funrides.

    A templar wearing Kagrenac's can rez you in like ~2 seconds.
    Does this really bring something new to the table?

    Yes, it really does.

    Instant rez>>>>>>>2 second rez. It's literally infinitely faster! And it allows for an instant rez without the hampered mobility of a magplar. This allows for the pure stambro groups (which I have no problem with, and enjoy playing as on occasion) to reach a new level of hilarity.

    One thing I wonder--are the tweaks they are looking at making on the PTS to rezzes (making you have the ghost mode for 3 seconds, etc.) considered a necessary change because of this ult?

    I like the mini game of interrupting rezzes with crushing shock. I love when like 3 people can't rezz their crown lol. Can't interrupt an instant rezz though.
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • Grasshopper
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    Op's Idea is interesting actually, lets do some light theorycrafting on this,

    Lets say for best case scenario you are your team decide that your want to make a necromancer for your team to abuse mechanics through resurrection.

    You have the following sets/things available to you, (All numbers are rough not posting a huge spreadsheet)

    1. (.66 per second) Champion of the hist (Stamina) / Shalk Exoskeleton (Magicka)
    2. (1 per second assuming taking damage) Hide of the Werewolf (Stamina)
    3. (15% drop in cost) Akavari DragonGuard
    4. (3% drop in cost) Expunge
    5. (10% drop in cost)Blessing of the Potentates
    6. (Assuming you take 1 hit a second ~.84 per second) Blood Spawn
    7. Heavy / Light attacks / healing / blocking give about 3 ultimate a second

    Now that we know what we have available, for the sake of not having long drawn out calculating assuming that decisive at gold (34% chance at 1 ult), lets just assume that at every third tick we gain an extra ultimate from it. We can also use time for an approximation.

    No extra bonuses
    (250 * .97) / 3 = 83.33 seconds
    (200 * .97) / 3 = 66.66 seconds
    (150 * .97) / 3 = 50 seconds

    Base without gear (Decisive+3) = ~4 ult per second
    (250 * .97) / 4 = 60.625
    (200 * .97) / 4 = 48.5
    (150 * .97) / 4 = 36.375

    Lets say we made a tank build or off-dps pvp build?

    Champion + Hide + blood spawn as the first build, (~Decisive + (.66+1+~.84+3)) = ~6.8 per second
    (250 * .97) / 6.8 = 35 seconds (closer to 42 in pvp)
    (200 * .97) / 6.8 = 28 seconds (closer to 35 in pvp)
    (150 * .97) / 6.8 = 21.39 seconds (closer to 30 in pvp)
    Even if you are unlucky, it is still a three person res about every 45 seconds,, most tanks can survive solo longer than that assuming to start with a little bit of ult.

    The time of resurrections on the average users are about 66 seconds for a party. Along with the new 3 second ghost period this seems ok. With Decisive we get about 48.5 seconds, but you drop a bunch of meaningful enchants. 28 seconds if you drop ALL your damage and defensive bonuses. In terms of abuse of the ultimate a 50 ultimate hike would add on 7-23 seconds of wait time,, which is not much.

    I think a better way of going about it would to be looking into making other ultimate more competitive with it. How,, I am not sure, it would take computation of the other ultimate's interactions to find that out.

    Hi btw, I am Grasshopper and I am a theorycrafter for some large guilds and I generally don't post much busying helping guilds. :s
    Bug and Theorycrafter since beta.
  • Ahlteffour
    Ahlteffour
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    The wording of the skill:

    Bring your allies back from the brink of death, resurrecting up to 3 allies at the target location. 28m range, 12m radius


    Change to:

    Bring players back from the brink of death, resurrecting up to 3 players at the target location. 28m range 18m radius.


    Making this skill indiscriminate in PVP will all but nullify its ability to be abused in PVP while leaving it unchanged for PVE (for the most part). Making it so it resurrects 3 random players instead of just allies would make it tougher in big battles because you could just as easily res your enemies as your allies. And increasing the radius will allow it to encompass more area, increasing the chance that you may accidentally raise an enemy in PVP.

    Now if your allies are just getting annihilated an they are the only dead ones, what does it really matter? They will get the res, and promptly die again from the superior team. In PVE, 3 random players in trials will only be your team members so that doesnt matter. This change would add a degree of tactical thought and placement of the skill so that it doesnt work against you in PVP, and give you additional radius in PVE to get more people up if they have died too far apart.



    Just a thought
    Edited by Ahlteffour on April 23, 2019 5:29PM
    "Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Your complaint regarding PVE is unfair, i can understand situation in PVP but PVE not need more nerf
  • jbjondeaueb17_ESO
    jbjondeaueb17_ESO
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    It will be fun in dungeons and trials : "when you die, please die at the same place that your colleague(s), I don't want to waste my ultimate for only 1 body" :D
    Pain-Healer - Argonian Templar Healer (EP) - Immortal Redeemer - Gryphon's Heart
    Guild : Ghosts and Goblins Target Dummies
    Players know me as Jeban
  • Pr0Skygon
    Pr0Skygon
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    Op's Idea is interesting actually, lets do some light theorycrafting on this,

    Lets say for best case scenario you are your team decide that your want to make a necromancer for your team to abuse mechanics through resurrection.

    You have the following sets/things available to you, (All numbers are rough not posting a huge spreadsheet)

    1. (.66 per second) Champion of the hist (Stamina) / Shalk Exoskeleton (Magicka)
    2. (1 per second assuming taking damage) Hide of the Werewolf (Stamina)
    3. (15% drop in cost) Akavari DragonGuard
    4. (3% drop in cost) Expunge
    5. (10% drop in cost)Blessing of the Potentates
    6. (Assuming you take 1 hit a second ~.84 per second) Blood Spawn
    7. Heavy / Light attacks / healing / blocking give about 3 ultimate a second

    Now that we know what we have available, for the sake of not having long drawn out calculating assuming that decisive at gold (34% chance at 1 ult), lets just assume that at every third tick we gain an extra ultimate from it. We can also use time for an approximation.

    No extra bonuses
    (250 * .97) / 3 = 83.33 seconds
    (200 * .97) / 3 = 66.66 seconds
    (150 * .97) / 3 = 50 seconds

    Base without gear (Decisive+3) = ~4 ult per second
    (250 * .97) / 4 = 60.625
    (200 * .97) / 4 = 48.5
    (150 * .97) / 4 = 36.375

    Lets say we made a tank build or off-dps pvp build?

    Champion + Hide + blood spawn as the first build, (~Decisive + (.66+1+~.84+3)) = ~6.8 per second
    (250 * .97) / 6.8 = 35 seconds (closer to 42 in pvp)
    (200 * .97) / 6.8 = 28 seconds (closer to 35 in pvp)
    (150 * .97) / 6.8 = 21.39 seconds (closer to 30 in pvp)
    Even if you are unlucky, it is still a three person res about every 45 seconds,, most tanks can survive solo longer than that assuming to start with a little bit of ult.

    The time of resurrections on the average users are about 66 seconds for a party. Along with the new 3 second ghost period this seems ok. With Decisive we get about 48.5 seconds, but you drop a bunch of meaningful enchants. 28 seconds if you drop ALL your damage and defensive bonuses. In terms of abuse of the ultimate a 50 ultimate hike would add on 7-23 seconds of wait time,, which is not much.

    I think a better way of going about it would to be looking into making other ultimate more competitive with it. How,, I am not sure, it would take computation of the other ultimate's interactions to find that out.

    Hi btw, I am Grasshopper and I am a theorycrafter for some large guilds and I generally don't post much busying helping guilds. :s

    Thanks for the very insightful calculation Grasshoper XD
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