Spin To Win

NyassaV

Just so everyone knows:
Spin to win has a 8.1k tool tip next patch. (On a medium stamblade). And becuase of the DW passive it does 9822 damage when under 25% health.
And because it’s cheaper you can spam it even more. It’s cost was the only thing preventing you from just spamming that skill only.

Strider__Roshin

Obviously this means we should nerf stamblades even more. How about a 25% damage nerf even dual wielding? It will suit the rest of the stamblade changes in Elswyr.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

The 50% base damage increase was just not needed. This makes whirlwind like 60-70% stronger then steel tornado is on live and while they increased the range by only one meter, 5 to 6, that 1 meter made the area go from ~78 meters to ~113, a 44% increase in size. That is insane. Reverse slice is still only 5 meters though. You think steel tornado is insane, try whirlwind.

usmcjdking

I'd actually be interested to see the threshold on a dummy upon which *** Executioner begins to outdamage Whirling Blades.

Probably something utterly ridiculous like 8%.

dazee

ITS STILL OP they scream, NERF IT TO THE GROUND! NERF IT TILL NO ONE CARES ABOUT IT!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

usmcjdking wrote: »

I'd actually be interested to see the threshold on a dummy upon which *** Executioner begins to outdamage Whirling Blades.

Probably something utterly ridiculous like 8%.

From my sloppy calculations, whirling blades does more damage till around 20-25%

Ramber

um... its first pts release calm down everyone lol. It means nothing, not even if it was the 3rd version, it means nothing until it hits live.

Tasear

dazee wrote: »

ITS STILL OP they scream, NERF IT TO THE GROUND! NERF IT TILL NO ONE CARES ABOUT IT!

😑 Scary how true the sentiment is to this statement.

SaintSubwayy

soo on a stamDK we get 2 more meeters?...sounds fair to me tbh :'D

Arcanasx

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

soo on a stamDK we get 2 more meeters?...sounds fair to me tbh :'D

That melee range passive doesn't work for AoE's.

SaintSubwayy

Arcanasx wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

soo on a stamDK we get 2 more meeters?...sounds fair to me tbh :'D

That melee range passive doesn't work for AoE's.

dammed, would have been tooo nice...however if i remeber correctly, it works for engulfing...which is aoe aswell

MartiniDaniels

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

soo on a stamDK we get 2 more meeters?...sounds fair to me tbh :'D

That melee range passive doesn't work for AoE's.

dammed, would have been tooo nice...however if i remeber correctly, it works for engulfing...which is aoe aswell

Unfortunately, no, engulfing is only 10 meters, which is "base" value.

Jeezye

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

Wing

Jeezye wrote: »

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

blade cloak yo

I know NB are not used to having to build or slot skills for specific buffs, but everyone has been doing it for ages and I promise you can find what your looking for ^_^

Jeezye

Wing wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

blade cloak yo

I know NB are not used to having to build or slot skills for specific buffs, but everyone has been doing it for ages and I promise you can find what your looking for ^_^

You didnt get it, major evasion is only accessible to medium armor (shuffle), blade cloak (stamina) and nightblades (blur).

Thus, every magicka class besides magblade has no access to the buff if they dont wear a specific set to do so, while all stamina builds have it built in almost naturally

IamDestiny

Jeezye wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

blade cloak yo

I know NB are not used to having to build or slot skills for specific buffs, but everyone has been doing it for ages and I promise you can find what your looking for ^_^

You didnt get it, major evasion is only accessible to medium armor (shuffle), blade cloak (stamina) and nightblades (blur).

Thus, every magicka class besides magblade has no access to the buff if they dont wear a specific set to do so, while all stamina builds have it built in almost naturally

You have shields?

Jeezye

HellFlame wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

blade cloak yo

I know NB are not used to having to build or slot skills for specific buffs, but everyone has been doing it for ages and I promise you can find what your looking for ^_^

You didnt get it, major evasion is only accessible to medium armor (shuffle), blade cloak (stamina) and nightblades (blur).

Thus, every magicka class besides magblade has no access to the buff if they dont wear a specific set to do so, while all stamina builds have it built in almost naturally

You have shields?

How is that an argument? Magclasses have shields, stamclasses have healing, both benefit from major evasion equally. The conclusion is the same

GeorgeBlack

Whirling blades is fine.
People can avoid it just as they used to avoid uppercut.
The only OP skill in DW is the master DW bleed doing insane dmg and ignoring the defence stats of this game.

Arcanasx

I think a lot of people seem to be forgetting that "spin2win" isn't the only AoE being buffed. Would it make people feel better if they removed the execute mechanic on whirling blades, and instead gave it a strong shield every time you hit someone with it, that increases in size depending on how many targets you hit? Maybe even change a certain DW weapon set that increases the damage from 1500-9000 damage depending on how many targets you hit with it. Maybe its just me, but I personally believe if "spin2win" did had something like this instead, it would be even stronger, especially in a PvP context.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Whirling blades is fine.
People can avoid it just as they used to avoid uppercut.
The only OP skill in DW is the master DW bleed doing insane dmg and ignoring the defence stats of this game.

Lol excuse you? I must have missed the fact that uppercut was a 113 meter area AOE oh wait, that is whirling blades.

Heimpai

Jeezye wrote: »

HellFlame wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

blade cloak yo

I know NB are not used to having to build or slot skills for specific buffs, but everyone has been doing it for ages and I promise you can find what your looking for ^_^

You didnt get it, major evasion is only accessible to medium armor (shuffle), blade cloak (stamina) and nightblades (blur).

Thus, every magicka class besides magblade has no access to the buff if they dont wear a specific set to do so, while all stamina builds have it built in almost naturally

You have shields?

How is that an argument? Magclasses have shields, stamclasses have healing, both benefit from major evasion equally. The conclusion is the same

Because magblades don’t have class shields like the others? I think that’s what he meant

ecru

it's pretty broken. dueled a bunch with it and took it off my bar because it felt so unfair to use. i doubt it'll go live as is.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

Heimpai wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

HellFlame wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

blade cloak yo

I know NB are not used to having to build or slot skills for specific buffs, but everyone has been doing it for ages and I promise you can find what your looking for ^_^

You didnt get it, major evasion is only accessible to medium armor (shuffle), blade cloak (stamina) and nightblades (blur).

Thus, every magicka class besides magblade has no access to the buff if they dont wear a specific set to do so, while all stamina builds have it built in almost naturally

You have shields?

How is that an argument? Magclasses have shields, stamclasses have healing, both benefit from major evasion equally. The conclusion is the same

Because magblades don’t have class shields like the others? I think that’s what he meant

Want to trade Blazing Shield against Cloak ! 🤔

Olupajmibanan

Heimpai wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

HellFlame wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

blade cloak yo

I know NB are not used to having to build or slot skills for specific buffs, but everyone has been doing it for ages and I promise you can find what your looking for ^_^

You didnt get it, major evasion is only accessible to medium armor (shuffle), blade cloak (stamina) and nightblades (blur).

Thus, every magicka class besides magblade has no access to the buff if they dont wear a specific set to do so, while all stamina builds have it built in almost naturally

You have shields?

How is that an argument? Magclasses have shields, stamclasses have healing, both benefit from major evasion equally. The conclusion is the same

Because magblades don’t have class shields like the others? I think that’s what he meant

Igneous Shield is sooo strong. I guess?

Spizzie

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Whirling blades is fine.
People can avoid it just as they used to avoid uppercut.
The only OP skill in DW is the master DW bleed doing insane dmg and ignoring the defence stats of this game.

You can dodge roll uppecut and it requires the user to actively aim and stay in front of the target. Whirling blades is undodgeable and doesn't require aiming whatsoever. If you're on console, you can literally just lift your thumb off the right stick and hit people just as reliably.

I have no idea how ZoS has balanced this game so that AoE abilities do more single target damage than single target abilities. It's insane.

Heimpai

jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

HellFlame wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Will only make major evasion more mandatory in your kit. Guess what, magclasses suffer from aoe buffs again cuz only magblade has access to that buff lol

blade cloak yo

I know NB are not used to having to build or slot skills for specific buffs, but everyone has been doing it for ages and I promise you can find what your looking for ^_^

You didnt get it, major evasion is only accessible to medium armor (shuffle), blade cloak (stamina) and nightblades (blur).

Thus, every magicka class besides magblade has no access to the buff if they dont wear a specific set to do so, while all stamina builds have it built in almost naturally

You have shields?

How is that an argument? Magclasses have shields, stamclasses have healing, both benefit from major evasion equally. The conclusion is the same

Because magblades don’t have class shields like the others? I think that’s what he meant

Want to trade Blazing Shield against Cloak ! 🤔

Go for it. I just stated what i thought he meant and tbh idgaf anymore..you lot want magblades gone, so be it.

glavius

Damage may have been buffed, but radius changed from 9 to 6 is a quite big nerf too. (need to compare old steel tornado to new Whirling blades since they share abilities)

New steel tornado was buffed vs target above 50% and nerfed vs target below 50% (overall nerf id say)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

glavius wrote: »

Damage may have been buffed, but radius changed from 9 to 6 is a quite big nerf too. (need to compare old steel tornado to new Whirling blades since they share abilities)

New steel tornado was buffed vs target above 50% and nerfed vs target below 50% (overall nerf id say)

It is certainly a buff. You still get that 20% from the passives, so you are doing on average, the same amount of damage but is cheaper.

glavius

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Damage may have been buffed, but radius changed from 9 to 6 is a quite big nerf too. (need to compare old steel tornado to new Whirling blades since they share abilities)

New steel tornado was buffed vs target above 50% and nerfed vs target below 50% (overall nerf id say)

It is certainly a buff. You still get that 20% from the passives, so you are doing on average, the same amount of damage but is cheaper.

True you do get the cheaper cost. But the damage will not be higher unless target is above 50% hp.
Assuming old base tooltip of steel tornade=100:

100% hp target (new 50% higher)
Old value 100dmg
New value 150dmg

75% hp target (new 20% higher)
Old value = 100*1,25=125dmg
New value = 150dmg

50% hp target
Old value = 100*1,5=150dmg
New value = 150dmg

30% hp target (old 13,3% higher)
Old value = 100*1,7=170dmg
New value 150dmg

20% hp target (old 20% higher)
Old value = 100*1,8*1,2= 216dmg
New value = 150*1,2= 180dmg

10% hp target (old 26,7% higher)
Old value = 100*1,9*1,2= 228dmg
New value = 150*1,2= 180dmg

Raammzzaa

Tasear wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

ITS STILL OP they scream, NERF IT TO THE GROUND! NERF IT TILL NO ONE CARES ABOUT IT!

😑 Scary how true the sentiment is to this statement.

So true. Haters gonna hate.

Arcanasx

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

ITS STILL OP they scream, NERF IT TO THE GROUND! NERF IT TILL NO ONE CARES ABOUT IT!

😑 Scary how true the sentiment is to this statement.

So true. Haters gonna hate.

It astonishes me that people are focusing so much on whirling blades. Its like they cannot comprehend how useful these other buffed AoEs are going to be as well, such as brawler and bombard. The only real situation where whirling blades can be truly OP is against high health boss targets where you can squeeze in a lot of extra damage, multiple times, from the execute mechanic. But then again, how long has endless hail been mandatory for doing good stam DPS, and how many people are complaining about that?

How it is with the PTS values, I think a group of players fighting against another group of players spamming brawler or bombard is going to usually be more dangerous than if they where to spam whirling blades. But it must be all the PTSD from seeing steel tornado which functions as an execute, that happens to occur frequently on their death recap that's giving them some serious tunnel vision. They like to focus on scenarios in which whirling blades will be strong, yet ignore other scenarios where other AoEs will perform better.

If whirling blades is too strong, its because most other AoEs are too strong.