Suggestion to balance major vulnerability on Necromancer's ultimate

kevlap017

So as many may be aware the necromancer's DPS ultimate is a tad too strong... Not the damage itself, that's fine, but the major vulnerability giving a 30% dps boost for all the group targeting the target(s) with no downside. Such a strong dps boost already exist in a balanced manner though, backlash raise dps by 20%, but it has a delay and a cap to balance it. I think instead of major vulnerability it should have a similar mechanic. A cap or delay in the damage. Maybe something over a longer period and no cap unlike backlash. Say a 10 second delay and a 40/50% copy. Or a very high copy but low delay, say 60% but in like 2-3 seconds. Something like that with a reasonable damage cap would work well I think and still encourage group play, like this ultimate and backlash do. Because major vulnerability is a great debuff but it's way too good. It's like a major mangle of sorts. It will make necromancers way too good in PVE. Considering their other ultimates already make them very desirable in PVE my suggestion seems reasonable. What do you think?

Edit: btw I don't think it's too strong in PVP. There It's fine, players have ways to deal with it that mobs don't. Remember, that's a 30% boost to everyone's damage, in dungeons or trials that's significant. Also yes backlash IS a 20% dps boost as long as you don't go over the cap. Then It's effectiveness diminish. That's how it's balanced. I simply suggested a similar mechanic because in pve that's like a stronger backlash that deliver the extra damage without delay or limit...

I didn't meant that it needed to be nerfed. Just balanced so it doesn't overperform in pve. Imagine if backlash had no damage copied cap.

DocFrost72

Personally I found 3 seconds of maj vulnerability once every 75 seconds (max, min may be closer to 40) or roughly a 4% (alternatively 7.5% at high end) wasn't make or break on any given individual parse.

That's roughly a 2.25% group parse increase at maximum uptime, less once you factor in IA minor vulnerability. You know, more I look at it, the more it seems okay. Strong, but not nearly as strong as it appears on paper.

Typical_T_ReX

The problem with necromancer lies in all pets critting for 100%. I've yet to see the ult specifically be too strong. I've even heard it's not applying vuln correctly on the 2nd and 3rd swings.

Do you have a specific example that the ult is too strong or just looking at a parse and trying to guess?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Such a strong dps boost already exist in a balanced manner though, backlash raise dps by 20%

backlash? the templar skill? raise dps by 20%? no, you are wrong.

Excelsus

Maybe it could be tuned a little but bare in mind magcro doesn't really top the damage charts and once the bug with stamcro is fixed they won't either. And necro as a class doesn't offer any unique party buffs like every other class does - minor brutality, prophecy, toughness etc. So if they didn't have that major vulnerability on an ult there would be no reason to include them in top tier raiding.

T3hasiangod

From a mathematical standpoint, no, it is not overpowered right now. Based on math, it is about comparable to a Warhorn for overall DPS boost. That's fairly balanced, especially if you consider that both DPS specs aren't likely to be the top DPS once Elsweyr releases, based on current DPS testing.

Wuuffyy

Nerf it all. They currently provide zero group utility passives but sure get rid of this

wheem_ESO

I think the main issue with the Major Vulnerability is that it can be coordinated with Ult dumps in PvP. If you're a Vampire get ready to be hit by the followup Dawnbreakers for like 10k+ in no-CP.

Wuuffyy

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I think the main issue with the Major Vulnerability is that it can be coordinated with Ult dumps in PvP. If you're a Vampire get ready to be hit by the followup Dawnbreakers for like 10k+ in no-CP.

I think the major issue is the l2p part of it.

Wuuffyy

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I think the main issue with the Major Vulnerability is that it can be coordinated with Ult dumps in PvP. If you're a Vampire get ready to be hit by the followup Dawnbreakers for like 10k+ in no-CP.

I think the major issue is the l2p part of it.

Btw vamp + no-cp + walking into the stupid is um that

wheem_ESO

Are you under the impression that the only way to get hit by the Atronach is to "walk into it?"

Wuuffyy

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Are you under the impression that the only way to get hit by the Atronach is to "walk into it?"

It’s a ground aoe like caltrops. Figure it out

SomeDogsAreCops

People really do hate fun.

Wuuffyy

SomeDogsAreCops wrote: »

People really do hate fun.

Right

Wuuffyy

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

SomeDogsAreCops wrote: »

People really do hate fun.

Right

Bout done with these people and this game. Tired of getting my **** nerfed b/c of beginners, forum warriors, and the elitists class rep crap (the people that spread the cancer that gets nerfed)

kevlap017

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

SomeDogsAreCops wrote: »

People really do hate fun.

Right

Bout done with these people and this game. Tired of getting my **** nerfed b/c of beginners, forum warriors, and the elitists class rep crap (the people that spread the cancer that gets nerfed)

Hey don't be mad at me. I don't mind it too much myself. I saw some people in other threads complaining that major vulnerability is too strong compared to other major debuffs and that even for a ultimate it had serious cheese potential in pve so that's why I was suggesting alternatives. In pvp it's not as much overpowered since players have ways to deal with debuffs and can dodge.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Such a strong dps boost already exist in a balanced manner though, backlash raise dps by 20%

backlash? the templar skill? raise dps by 20%? no, you are wrong.

Well it does. If you copy 20% damage, and don't hit the cap, that is a 20% damage boost overall after backlash burst. The effectiveness only diminish if you go over the cap.


As for everyone thinking this is about pvp: it isn't. For once this is a "this is a bit too good for pve, fine for pvp" scenario. I know, rare on the forums. Maybe I was a bit too vague about that part. Sorry. Should have specified more explicitly.

cpuScientist

kevlap017 wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

SomeDogsAreCops wrote: »

People really do hate fun.

Right

Bout done with these people and this game. Tired of getting my **** nerfed b/c of beginners, forum warriors, and the elitists class rep crap (the people that spread the cancer that gets nerfed)

Hey don't be mad at me. I don't mind it too much myself. I saw some people in other threads complaining that major vulnerability is too strong compared to other major debuffs and that even for a ultimate it had serious cheese potential in pve so that's why I was suggesting alternatives. In pvp it's not as much overpowered since players have ways to deal with debuffs and can dodge.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Such a strong dps boost already exist in a balanced manner though, backlash raise dps by 20%

backlash? the templar skill? raise dps by 20%? no, you are wrong.

Well it does. If you copy 20% damage, and don't hit the cap, that is a 20% damage boost overall after backlash burst. The effectiveness only diminish if you go over the cap.


As for everyone thinking this is about pvp: it isn't. For once this is a "this is a bit too good for pve, fine for pvp" scenario. I know, rare on the forums. Maybe I was a bit too vague about that part. Sorry. Should have specified more explicitly.

That's not what dps is. Backlash does not raise dps by 20%. It copies damage done for a time to a cap then releases it as a burst. When it is released group DPS does not increase by 20%

Also I know how you are trying to say, however since the ability has to be cast it will never EVER BE a solid 20% can get pretty damn near but never ever be 20% even if it had no cap

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

kevlap017 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Such a strong dps boost already exist in a balanced manner though, backlash raise dps by 20%

backlash? the templar skill? raise dps by 20%? no, you are wrong.

Well it does. If you copy 20% damage, and don't hit the cap, that is a 20% damage boost overall after backlash burst. The effectiveness only diminish if you go over the cap.

What? lol you are so off base. it is essentially another dot, it is not, LOL again, 20% damage boost. for the record, here is the tooltip-

Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 2116 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 seconds and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them. Maximum copied damage: 12000.

as you can see, it is not NOT 20% more damage, with the stats that the site i got that tooltip from had in that description, it is basically another 2k dps. on my stamplar, the tooltip for power of the lights copied damage is like 20k, meaning it is like another dot that does 3.3k dps. so for this to be a 20% damage boost, your dps would have to be ~16.6k dps. LOL man you are so misinformed on this that it makes the rest of your comments pretty much easily ignored.

bpmachete

No. Finally there is a counter to Major protection. The Wardens Perma now will be countered in a way so they can't be as tanky in their stacked ulti. They will be at regular protection for a bit if countered this way.