*CONTROVERSIAL* Necropotence is pointless

gamerguy757

Seriously...why is this set used and SO highly recommended? I get 4K extra magicka...but I’m going to sacrifice extra damage, extra crit or extra buffs? Come on...none of my pet builds use this set.
So why use it

RouDeR

Bigger shields(PvP), higher magika pool so you have more time before running out pf resource.

gamerguy757

RouDeR wrote: »

Bigger shields(PvP), higher magika pool so you have more time before running out pf resource.

Shields are based on health now though

WrathOfInnos

It’s not the best, I don’t really see it used much anymore. It used to give 4K Magicka on the 5pc and was good then.

Ogou

Because pet damage abilities only scale with your max magicka.

HaruKamui

gamerguy757 wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

Bigger shields(PvP), higher magika pool so you have more time before running out pf resource.

Shields are based on health now though

Incorrect. The actual size is based on magicka, with a cap of 40 (or 50%) of your max health.

Magicka also increases your damage in case you didn't know.

rumple9

Essential for pet builds. Damage scales off max magicka. The more mag you have the more damage you do. Also as said above about shields.

VMA is a walk in the park with a necropotence pet build

DKMaestro

It basically gives you a higher magicka pool and the equivalent of about 650 spell damage - not many sets can do that - especially not constant.

gamerguy757

VMA is a walk in the park in general lol even without Necro.
My pet sorc uses Infall/Julianos/Illsmbris and hits hard.
Is Necro REALLY that necessary?

DocFrost72

Ogou wrote: »

Because pet damage abilities only scale with your max magicka.

This poster beat me to it. Spell damage is absolutely pointless on a sorc pet focused build. It'll affect LL, blockade, light attacks, and curse. That's it.

Meanwhile the big bulk of damage (matriarch zap, familiar pulse, daedroth if you use it, and atro) get nothing at all from spell damage, though the stuff in the paragraph before this DOES scale with max magicka.

All or nothing or a little bit of boost in some and a big boost in the rest?

zaria

rumple9 wrote: »

Essential for pet builds. Damage scales off max magicka. The more mag you have the more damage you do. Also as said above about shields.

VMA is a walk in the park with a necropotence pet build

You think of the necro / plague doctor setup? its an high health build to give large shields and an huge health bar.
HA build so you want decent of magic as an emergency pool for shields and healing.
Its an one bar very tanky setup for doing vMA the first times.

DKMaestro

zaria wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

Essential for pet builds. Damage scales off max magicka. The more mag you have the more damage you do. Also as said above about shields.

VMA is a walk in the park with a necropotence pet build

You think of the necro / plague doctor setup? its an high health build to give large shields and an huge health bar.
HA build so you want decent of magic as an emergency pool for shields and healing.
Its an one bar very tanky setup for doing vMA the first times.

Pretty sure the same build is also very viable in PVP. Havent tried it yet, but experimenting with Necro/Curse-Eater

Waffennacht

It's a good set. It's not the end all be all of sets mind you.

It's all about what you use and what you wanna maximize.

Of course you don't have to use it.

The reasons why someone would use it are all posted before this

idk

Sorc let damage scales mostly off magicka on live so necro is a great set for a Sorc pet build.

So for a Sorc let build it’s probably the best 5 pc set one could use. There may be other comparable sets but not a significant difference.

So for OP to make such a strong statement without anything to back it up, that controversial. If your going to say something is pointless have the decency to back it up n

gamerguy757

Then on a warden what does it do? Does it just increase magicka lr buff damage to the shalks and the swarm

Conduit0

Because until last patch the only stat pets scaled with was max magicka.

Waffennacht

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Then on a warden what does it do? Does it just increase magicka lr buff damage to the shalks and the swarm

Only the sorc pets (and Shields) scale only to max mag. Warden abilities scale off of max mag and spell dmg

idk

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Then on a warden what does it do? Does it just increase magicka lr buff damage to the shalks and the swarm

While the question here has been answered, this does shed light that maybe the OP should had been more of a question asking why some suggest the set be saying the set was pointless.

Just a thought.

siddique

My PetSorc uses Zaan, Necro and Mother's Sorrow in PvP.
In PvE, he sometimes replaces Necro with Siroria.

Massive_Stain

Max mag is an increase in raw spell damage. Is there anymore to actually say?

DeadlyRecluse

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Is Necro REALLY that necessary?

Of course it's not necessary, but it's a crazy efficient set.

T3hasiangod

Necropotence is outclassed by a few sets. The common argument for it is that petsorcs use it to boost pet damage, but there is a counterargument against that, mainly focused on the way that DPS is calculated.

While pets now deal a very high amount of damage compared to where they used to be, they still do not make up a majority of your damage. At most, pet damage will make up between 20 to 25 percent of your DPS. This leaves the other 75 to 80 percent of your damage to be affected by sets. So while pet damage is not impacted by spell damage, your other abilities are, and so Necropotence starts to lose steam when compared to sets like Spell Strategist, Burning Spellweave, and Julianos, particularly in the current DPS meta where crit and spell damage are more important than Max Magicka.

tl;dr: The idea that Necropotence is a "top-tier" set is a bit misguided due to people's misunderstanding of DPS mathematics. It is still a very solid set, but in end-game PvE, it is not very commonly used anymore.

MaxJrFTW

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Seriously...why is this set used and SO highly recommended? I get 4K extra magicka...but I’m going to sacrifice extra damage, extra crit or extra buffs? Come on...none of my pet builds use this set.
So why use it

The effectiveness of your magicka abilities also scales up with max magicka.

Cyhawk

Lots of misinformation.

For magicka abilities, their damage/effectiveness is based on Max Magicka and Spell Damage. The higher both values, the more damage those skills do. ^1

Hardened Ward follows both of these rules. The more spell power AND max magicka you have the larger shield. ^2

However due to the recent change, if you were able to cast a say, 20k shield before, you are now over the cap and it becomes 10k. Increasing your health will increase the strength strength due to this artificial limitation.

^1 Some skills are weighted towards one stat or the other. Before this last patch, sorc pets didn't use Spell damage at all in their calculations, only max magicka made a difference. So the more max magicka = better pet damage. This is still pretty much true.

^2 Hardened ward is also weighted towards max magicka more than spell damage.

For generic damage abilities, the rule is 10 magicka = 1 Spell power. (variations of course exist, only testing will confirm that a specific skill works that way), Necropotence gives the equivalent of 600 spell damage (or more depending on stat scaling). Does any other set give this much? No.

MaxJrFTW

Cyhawk wrote: »

Does any other set give this much? No.

Just being pedantic, but Burning Spellweave gives over 750. It's limited to DKs and maybe templars though.

AnnoyingWizard

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Cyhawk wrote: »

Does any other set give this much? No.

Just being pedantic, but Burning Spellweave gives over 750. It's limited to DKs and maybe templars though.

It is not limited to DKs and Templars, any class that equips a flame staff and utilizes destro staff skills (like Wall or Clench) can gain the benefit.

It also is not constantly in effect, unlike Necropotence. Haven’t done the math, but I’d imagine they’d give similar results, if not Necro pulling out ahead a bit.

Ratzkifal

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Cyhawk wrote: »

Does any other set give this much? No.

Just being pedantic, but Burning Spellweave gives over 750. It's limited to DKs and maybe templars though.

@MaxJrFTW Works decent on nonpet sorcs using destrostaff and wall of elements over liquid lightning.
Templars deal mostly magic damage and not fire, so not on them unless they also go destrostaff and use those skills.

Runefang

Mothers Sorrow will outdo Necropotence. There two reasons for that: the Shadow Mundus got buffed and in trials you get Major Force which just makes Mother’s Sorrow even more effective.

Nobody should run Necropotence now. Even in vMA I’d rather have MS and BSW since BSW is a front bar proc and helps more with burst damage.

Ratzkifal

I'm pretty sure Alfiq will replace Necropotence in PvP, because once your pets died, you lose your magicka.

Massive_Stain

Runefang wrote: »

Mothers Sorrow will outdo Necropotence. There two reasons for that: the Shadow Mundus got buffed and in trials you get Major Force which just makes Mother’s Sorrow even more effective.

Nobody should run Necropotence now. Even in vMA I’d rather have MS and BSW since BSW is a front bar proc and helps more with burst damage.

Actually bsw should be used on body, the uptime on front bar isn't as good

MaxJrFTW

Ratzkifal wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Cyhawk wrote: »

Does any other set give this much? No.

Just being pedantic, but Burning Spellweave gives over 750. It's limited to DKs and maybe templars though.

@MaxJrFTW Works decent on nonpet sorcs using destrostaff and wall of elements over liquid lightning.
Templars deal mostly magic damage and not fire, so not on them unless they also go destrostaff and use those skills.

AOE morph of sun fire + fire staff.