Dear PvPers

SweepsAllClowns

haelene wrote: »

Can somebody explain why people don't like zergs or groups in Cyrodill? A war zone? Meant for large scale faction v faction battles? I'm genuinely curious because Cyrodill is marketed as, again, a war zone. Where armies fight. Not for 1v1, and if you're trying to 1v1 isn't that kind of... not what it's for? Isn't that the purpose of battlegrounds? Did I miss the brochure? Or is this a PvP culture thing?

You are correct, Cyrodiil is designed for large scale battles, of course smaller scale or 1v1 situations may and will happen obviously. Most don't like to get "zerged" down, simply because getting killed isn't fun no matter the numbers are, yet many who whine about "zerging" have no problem outnumbering others, many experienced players camp on resources with their "small scale" group and wait for players coming to take the resource, for example it's totally fine for about 5-10 player group+guards to kill some alone low level player coming to resource, it's not "zerging" in such case, it's called "farming", which is all about top skills, also it's just the same if the players at the resource are in the same group or none in any group. If this same "farmed" low level player would kill some of the "farmers" with 9 other players while the "farmer" would be soloing, in this case the situation would be called "zerging", which is obviously highly unskilled compared to "farming". It's all about how one wants to label the actions of their own or others.

Sure heavy "zerging" when a full group runs over alone player happen, but many times the actual situations aren't quite the same what players tell they are. It's all about the ego, have you heard anyone bragging how he "zerged" someone, probably not too often, but you probably have heard how he "farmed" someone. Have you heard anyone bragging how he got "farmed", no, well you probably have heard from someone how he got "zerged".

Some amazing stories I've heard from some "solo or small scale only" players when they've been in a large group (around 20 players) or in the middle of large group fighting enemies, here's few I can remember now: "It's not our fault that others follow our group because we kill, it doesn't make us zergers.", "I only zerg when I help getting emp for my buddy.", I'd been a filthy "zergling" in both cases, no excuses. Gank related story from a salty nightblade who failed with his gank attempt: "I just tried to stop you for duel.", tried just to stop me with multiple bow attacks from stealth, followed by critical rush on my back after I rode past him while he was hiding! Is this some noble duel invite code? All those town questers might be actually just getting duel invites instead of filthy ganks!

One thing why people don't like "zergs" is because they cause more lag, which is understandable reason obviously, but if there's too much lag too often in Cyrodiil, then probably the only solution is to stay away just like many questers stay away from towns because of gankers...I mean duel inviters.

This got little offtopic, but some of the "zerg" related stories came to my mind while i was reading the thread. Many have strong opinions about some of these issues and conversations usually end up to never ending entertainment, just like the town questing during the event.

Commancho

Oh such a big drama, 8 pages already.

Raudgrani

I've been acting as a knight guarding (EP) "pilgrims" around Bruma and Cropsford. Well, after the 4'th or 5'th kill of same people, I've felt bad and admitted them to do their thing. Generally only after they quit attacking me, my friends or alliance comrades. If you ARE a PVE'er trying to do dailies, refrain from attacking people of other alliances, and don't give us an attitude and cry later when you realize your mistake.

I'm not a delve boss, but a PVP player. You are not likely to kill me with your PVE build, so show some respect and do your PVE thing right from start, if that's what you're going to claim when messaging me, after being killed several times. I don't prey on non-PVP builds like some farmer groups do, we keep them busy so you can get your boxes. ;-)

Haojin

will make a gank group for event spots today; dear pve'ers.

SweepsAllClowns

Commancho wrote: »

Oh such a big drama, 8 pages already.

This is my favorite thread, can't wait for the Midyear Mayhem threads!

commodore64

Jamdarius wrote: »

I know you guys enjoy PvP a lot however during the event my dear AD would you mind staying out of dailys zone in Cheydinhal and let players enjoy the event?
I know i know its PvP zone you should get your a$$ wiped, L2P QQ ... whatever. But what kind of *** u have to be to just go for easy kill vs PvE players?!

Really I never had such issues years back during events and now it seems some stupid kiddos joined ESO community and are wrecking event for most of players.
Dear ZOS this week 3 event is just lame and I cannot say I enjoy it.

I've not discovered the part of the game that includes getting your ass wiped. Sounds delightful.Is that in the Imp Sewers?

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

iam a big fan of pvp and are in everyday, this is simply bullying, i can understand it, if in one of the towns, but chenihall has no impact on campaign at all, said thing is most who are doing it, are not kids, but peeps in their 30's and over

haelene

SweepsAllClowns wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

Can somebody explain why people don't like zergs or groups in Cyrodill? A war zone? Meant for large scale faction v faction battles? I'm genuinely curious because Cyrodill is marketed as, again, a war zone. Where armies fight. Not for 1v1, and if you're trying to 1v1 isn't that kind of... not what it's for? Isn't that the purpose of battlegrounds? Did I miss the brochure? Or is this a PvP culture thing?

You are correct, Cyrodiil is designed for large scale battles, of course smaller scale or 1v1 situations may and will happen obviously. Most don't like to get "zerged" down, simply because getting killed isn't fun no matter the numbers are, yet many who whine about "zerging" have no problem outnumbering others, many experienced players camp on resources with their "small scale" group and wait for players coming to take the resource, for example it's totally fine for about 5-10 player group+guards to kill some alone low level player coming to resource, it's not "zerging" in such case, it's called "farming", which is all about top skills, also it's just the same if the players at the resource are in the same group or none in any group. If this same "farmed" low level player would kill some of the "farmers" with 9 other players while the "farmer" would be soloing, in this case the situation would be called "zerging", which is obviously highly unskilled compared to "farming". It's all about how one wants to label the actions of their own or others.

Sure heavy "zerging" when a full group runs over alone player happen, but many times the actual situations aren't quite the same what players tell they are. It's all about the ego, have you heard anyone bragging how he "zerged" someone, probably not too often, but you probably have heard how he "farmed" someone. Have you heard anyone bragging how he got "farmed", no, well you probably have heard from someone how he got "zerged".

Some amazing stories I've heard from some "solo or small scale only" players when they've been in a large group (around 20 players) or in the middle of large group fighting enemies, here's few I can remember now: "It's not our fault that others follow our group because we kill, it doesn't make us zergers.", "I only zerg when I help getting emp for my buddy.", I'd been a filthy "zergling" in both cases, no excuses. Gank related story from a salty nightblade who failed with his gank attempt: "I just tried to stop you for duel.", tried just to stop me with multiple bow attacks from stealth, followed by critical rush on my back after I rode past him while he was hiding! Is this some noble duel invite code? All those town questers might be actually just getting duel invites instead of filthy ganks!

One thing why people don't like "zergs" is because they cause more lag, which is understandable reason obviously, but if there's too much lag too often in Cyrodiil, then probably the only solution is to stay away just like many questers stay away from towns because of gankers...I mean duel inviters.

This got little offtopic, but some of the "zerg" related stories came to my mind while i was reading the thread. Many have strong opinions about some of these issues and conversations usually end up to never ending entertainment, just like the town questing during the event.

Thank you for the thorough answer! I suppose it's not much different from PvE (ego's abound), just with different language. It's nice to have context though.

I can totally understand the lag thing for sure but I feel like ire for that particular issue should be directed at ZOS and not those that play in groups.

xan4silkb14_ESO

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

iam a big fan of pvp and are in everyday, this is simply bullying, i can understand it, if in one of the towns, but chenihall has no impact on campaign at all, said thing is most who are doing it, are not kids, but peeps in their 30's and over

Yes, Cheydinhal, Chorrol and Weynon Priory have no impact at all on the campaign. Don't know why anyone should really care what pvers do there.

method__01

picked up an empty campaign today, went Cheydinhal did all daily's
a lot ppl from all alliances doing their daily,not a single prob,stayed there over 1 hour

method__01

green_villain wrote: »

method__01 wrote: »

picked up an empty campaign today, went Cheydinhal did all daily's
a lot ppl from all alliances doing their daily,not a single prob,stayed there over 1 hour

what time it was? i want to adjust my ganking schedule to be able to find some sweet spots like you described

lolll,9:30 am

ConstanKar

Smy my head. These pve questers taking what rightfully belongs to PvPers. PvP players are the most oppresed minority.

Shawn_PT

It's the nature of PvP.

Yesterday there were players of all factions on a town, and if we didn't attack one another, there was no issue.

However there would occasionally appear a group of 2-3 who swept the town and killed everyone, then waited on sneak for those who were away and ganked them while they were rezzing. Many kicks they must have got from killing helpless players. Until a bigger group came along, whipped them into pulp, and they were never seen again. They were not there because they were PvPers looking for a fight, or wanting to prove tha PvP is the true endgame that actually requires skill, or trying to test their steel against other strong competitors. They were there to grief PvErs and get easy AP, but when the tables were reversed, they ran and were not seen again.


I am not a PvPer. 1v1 I have 0 chances. But yesterday I did have some fun because the town skirmishes were balanced. That is what makes PvP interesting. You win some, you lose some. You get up and smack the person who smacked you. It stops being fun when a zerg sweeps everything and leaves zero chance for a recovery. And then they stand over the bodies of 5 or 6 randoms while their 30 buddies sit on the NPCs doing nothing, probably waiting for that one guy who may try to rez so they can steamroll them. Fun, huh? No. It's not.

Small disorganized skirmishes are fun. Zerg warfare is not. But I digress.

Sneak. Don't just walk to the NPC. Wait to see if there's someone else in the area. Maybe they get ganked. Maybe they show the place is safe enough to approach. Maybe someone will lure the gankers away from the NPCs long enough for an interaction. Don't put a target on your back. Play defensively.

haelene

ConstanKar wrote: »

Smy my head. These pve questers taking what rightfully belongs to PvPers. PvP players are the most oppresed minority.

Bottom Text

Shawn_PT

Gilvoth wrote: »

will you pve'rs stop pve-ing if we go to your pve zone?

This makes no sense. A PvEr who is trying to PvE in a PvP zone can and will have their efforts not only hindered but completely blocked if they keep running into PvPers who decide they are fresh meat.

Let's reverse the roles. Two PvPers come to say Deshaan to PvP. Duel flag drops. Okay. So, can the PvErs hinder your battle? No. Maybe if they stand in the duel or throw AoEs and stuff to mess with the players but it has zero effect. Can they actually prevent PvPers from dueling? No. There is nothing a PvEr can do to stop a PvPer from PvPing in PvE areas.

See how that is?

To make it fair, allow PvErs to attack and destroy the Duel flags for exp and loot (forfeiting the duel) so we can actually hinder and block PvPers from doing their thing in a map that was not designed for them. How would that feel?

Master_Kas

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

xan4silkb14_ESO wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

iam a big fan of pvp and are in everyday, this is simply bullying, i can understand it, if in one of the towns, but chenihall has no impact on campaign at all, said thing is most who are doing it, are not kids, but peeps in their 30's and over

Yes, Cheydinhal, Chorrol and Weynon Priory have no impact at all on the campaign. Don't know why anyone should really care what pvers do there.

It's not bullying or griefing like some crybabies claim. It's a pvp zone.

Griefing is the act of chronically causing consternation to other members of an online community, or more specifically, intentionally disrupting the immersion of another player in their gameplay.

I know very well what griefing is, but then again you stepped into a PvP zone. If he feels like ganking pve:ers questing he has the right to do so without getting called "griefer" or "bullying me wää".

Ganking or playing pvp is not griefing just because you are not interested in pvp. Don't like it, don't go into cyrodiil.

Sirona_Starr

Kalante wrote: »

The last two times this event happened I did not killed anyone but now after the many nb nerfs that are coming soon i will kill as many pve carebears as humanly possible. I will not let them enjoy a single moment of anything.

I'm sure that will punish ZOS for the nerfs they did........... :P

efster wrote: »

I personally leave questers alone unless they attack me first. But if you're going to come into a competitive campaign, flip strategic map locations so you can do PVE dailies in peace and get slaughtered by the local PVPers for it, I have absolutely no sympathy for you. Vivec is not a PVE-er friendly campaign; this is not a secret, and if you DON'T know it going in because you don't usually PVP, one look at zone chat will clearly tell you that you're not welcome (because you're taking up a spot that someone who wants to PVP could take instead).

How about going to another campaign? How about doing the Conquest board quests and help your alliance while getting jubilee boxes (and Gladiator proofs)? How about limiting yourself to the Fighters Guild bounty (just do it on multiple characters)? How about going down to IC, where it's always open season on PVEers anyway, and doing the dailies there? You have options.

Why would you expect other people to change their normal everyday playstyle just because you decided to show up for a little bit?

In fact, the camping out to prevent people turning in quests was not related to one of the strategic towns when I was there. I didn't realize Chorrol was such a strategic PVP spot :P If a quester decides they want to go to a strategic town like Valastarus and flip it, then, they are not questing, they are pvping, and yes, at that point it's not about the quest. I was not in Vivec, because I know that is a serious PVP zone, and the spots should go to PVPers

valeriiya

Grandma wrote: »

valeriiya wrote: »

LOL at the PVE people crying about PvP. PVE people get more events every year than PvP so simmer down and dry your tears and run with a group.

LOL at the pvp players who have to feel good about themselves by zerging a bunch of pve players just trying to get daily boxes. congratulations, you proved... what exactly?

@Grandma when did i say i zerged, don't be a liar and make things up. as i was sniping the PVE kids last night i turned around ran straight into their group of friends and died instantly, karma.

Reverb

Camping Cheydinhal is full cheese. Most self respecting pvp’ers won’t do that because it’s not an alliance war objective. Players camping that are probably pve groups gleefully pretending to be pvp heros.

But Bruma, Cropsford and Vlas are pvp objectives and transit lines. We aren’t going to ignore enemies there. You’re a war tourist, there’s inherent risk of brutal death.

StormeReigns

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

xan4silkb14_ESO wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

iam a big fan of pvp and are in everyday, this is simply bullying, i can understand it, if in one of the towns, but chenihall has no impact on campaign at all, said thing is most who are doing it, are not kids, but peeps in their 30's and over

Yes, Cheydinhal, Chorrol and Weynon Priory have no impact at all on the campaign. Don't know why anyone should really care what pvers do there.

It's not bullying or griefing like some crybabies claim. It's a pvp zone.

Griefing is the act of chronically causing consternation to other members of an online community, or more specifically, intentionally disrupting the immersion of another player in their gameplay.

While you are correct, i am just wondering, for my own knowledge; is this person or persons denying you the ability to spawn or resurrect, spawn or leave from a spawn location before being attacked again?
Has said individual(s) caused a disruption so grievous that you cannot log out or switch to another character to safely play the game?
Are they significantly higher level then you preventing you from accurately and with in your own limits opportunities to defend?
Is this happened while en route to said event locations or happening with in said area(s) as a whole?

Jamdarius

AndyMac wrote: »

If you're doing PvE in Cyro at any time, you have expect to be attacked at any moment - a lot will leave you alone, but many give no quarter - no matter what. And some have been actively looking for you.

That's just how Cyro is.

I was doing dailies at Bruma this morning while DC were trying to take it back lol. At Cropsford, I got a nice whispered ty from an EP player when I killed a ganker when doing some dailies - clearly this guy had been griefing him.

And, to me, the additional threat is all part of the fun. I'm finding this a lot more fun than the WB quests.

Don't mind me reminding you folks that last year event was different, sure I was ganked but maybe by 1-2 players not by 10-20... And also nobody was ganking at the quest NPC's they waited outsdide of town, and 3 alliances could get their dailys easily done, it was like there was ceasefire agreement near the NPC's.

So once again: wth happened in the past year to make players become such jerks?

pod88kk

To be fair my experience has been fairly decent so far.

I've been killed & tbagged a few times only to go back & wipe the group(and a second time when they came for me again).

On one occasion I was my butt was a bit tightly clenched because when I got to vlastarus there was a full group of yellows in the middle of the town. I was taking out the guards stopping me from entering the building and a level 483 tried to kill me whilst hiding behind his pets. Luckily the rest didn't jump in or I'd have been screwed.

On Xbox EU there's kind of an unwritten rule that vivec is anything goes while the other campaigns but come in on a pvp characters in case of grievers.

Moonsorrow

I suggest pve questers group up for the quest hubs, strenght in numbers. Most gankers cannot deal with that. Have a tank protect people at the quest giver npcs, have couple dps doing ground placed aoes around the group constantly (reveals nightblades), have a healer to heal the group. You will actually kill the gankers this way.

Imagine it being like a Trial, you might actually have some fun.

And if some enemy big group comes to do "seal clubbing", ask help at Zone chat, many pvp players are willing to come help the questers. I did a lot of helping myself during last night, killed a lot of gankers that was making questers life hard. Not all pvp players are griefers, some of us also do the quests ourselves too or just help people to get theirs done.

Try to have fun, even at some off hours there might not be help. Give pvp a chance. Unite as a group and fight back. Take what is yours, be it the quest hub or keeps and outposts! *raised swords*

SidraWillowsky

The "but everything else in these events involves PvE so let us have our fun" argument makes me insane. Sure, all other events are PvE and I KNOW some of you PvPers hate PvE, so I get it... but...

In the PvE events that you're forced to do, no one can technically prevent you from completing the events. That doesn't hold for PvP... the aholes camping in and around the towns, killing people as they came, were preventing people from completing their quests. You could tell people to find a different time/different campaign, but this was happening across all campaigns and some people have limited playtime. You could tell people to "git gud", but come ON... this isn't a 5th grade field day, people don't get participation trophies. The fact is that the hardcore PvPers ARE going to be better than almost anyone (though I hope they're off having lives vs purposefully ruining events for people) no matter how much they work at it (ie, myself).

So no, this isn't the same as your being forced to do PvE events, unless groups of 3 PvEers were to group up during the Undaunted event, for example, queue up for a fourth pug, and repeatedly kick that player from the group if they were a PvPer.

Jamdarius

efster wrote: »

I personally leave questers alone unless they attack me first. But if you're going to come into a competitive campaign, flip strategic map locations so you can do PVE dailies in peace and get slaughtered by the local PVPers for it, I have absolutely no sympathy for you. Vivec is not a PVE-er friendly campaign; this is not a secret, and if you DON'T know it going in because you don't usually PVP, one look at zone chat will clearly tell you that you're not welcome (because you're taking up a spot that someone who wants to PVP could take instead).

How about going to another campaign? How about doing the Conquest board quests and help your alliance while getting jubilee boxes (and Gladiator proofs)? How about limiting yourself to the Fighters Guild bounty (just do it on multiple characters)? How about going down to IC, where it's always open season on PVEers anyway, and doing the dailies there? You have options.

Why would you expect other people to change their normal everyday playstyle just because you decided to show up for a little bit?

so you say you have no sympathy for me in Vivec campaign, sure np never was there in the first place, good to see people read posts and than type... oh wait they don't.
Was in Shor and Sotha Sil if anyone cares at this point...just like I typed on first or 2nd page.

JackAshes

Umm please don’t take this as cruel but simply logical. Don’t participate in a PVP event unless you plan to PVP? maybe? The next generation of these post will come when PVEers come to Cyrodiil to get the achievement for the artifact just you wait....

Other ideas: do IC daily’s, Do BG daily’s, Don’t participate in exclusively PvP events and let people that enjoy that game style have their fun? I am not out there ganking People but I have zero issues for those that are. You know because it is a PVP event in a PvP zone.....

Kuramas9tails

valeriiya wrote: »

LOL at the PVE people crying about PvP. PVE people get more events every year than PvP so simmer down and dry your tears and run with a group.

Its not really a PVP event if the goal is to do PVE quests.

Jamdarius

Commancho wrote: »

Dear @Jamdarius
It brings me joy to take your innocent lifes and your hatred whispers are like a balsam for my soul... For the rest months of this year you can think about it. Especialy before you vote kick someone from the dungeon because he didn't had meta build or because he was learning a mechanics for a first time.

Sincerely,
Your Faith

Never, not even once have I kicked somebody cause he/she didn't have meta build as I do not run meta builds myself.
The only time in 5 years of ESO I kicked somebody from trials/dungs were obviously afk-ing people without prior notice of going afk or obvious trolls running naked for the whole dungeon and dying in each step on purpose, or jumping near the AA trials pushing stones instead of standing on them to let us teleport. I can count on 1 hand how many times this happened tho.

Whispers? Hatred? No... I just pity players like that and all those who have to live with and near them because it shows how awful person they must be if they act like this in a game and willingly and on purpose ruin the fun of others.

Sirona_Starr

Mayrael wrote: »

Do whatever you want at Cheydinhal, I don't care, but when you are going to take one of towns like Cropsford or Vlastarus get ready for being hunt down - these are important from tactical reasons and I won't gimp the map just because you want to do some quests.

I absolutely agree with that - flipping a strategic town, you are not questing, you are pvping. However, the issue of stopping people from turning in quests is/was happening at Cheydinhal and Chorral. I also saw some cooperation at Chorral later on though, which was nice. Those are purely pve/quest type towns.

VaranisArano

So much to talk over something that's very simple:

Everyone in Cyrodiil knowingly and willingly queued up for a PVP zone.