Snipe change?

Pallio

Snipe change says reduction in shot time, 1 sec from 1.1. With this change snipe is losing 25% dmg? Shoots 10% faster, with 25% less dmg.. what?

frostz417

Means it’s getting nerfed Bud

likecats

"Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities."

So basically, 0.1 + 0.2s = 0.3s reduction.

Kind of a buff actually.

DisgracefulMind

Actually really glad it's getting a damage nerf.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

I'm more hoping that standardising the channel time also fixes the health desync that has plagued this skill in PvP. Nothing worse than dying because of health desync to a snipe stack unseen.

GrumpyDuckling

From PTS Notes about Snipe: "Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles."

How does this work/look now?

Bladerunner1

Snipe:
Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.
Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.
Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles.
Lethal Arrow (morph): This morph now applies Minor Defile, rather than Major Defile. This was done since the morph already has another bonus, the guaranteed chance to apply the Poisoned status effect.
Focused Aim (morph): This morph no longer increases the range in which your allies can hit the target. Instead, it reduces the cost by 5% and increases the range by 5 meters. Note that Minor Fracture remains.

I tried this on the PTS. If you weave light attacks it's not any faster than on live. It still takes about 1.3-1.4 seconds to weave light attacks between applications of focused aim.


Light attack weaving with Focused Aim


Spam with Focused Aim

At the base value it's actually higher dps to not weave light attacks and just spam focused aim, which happens around every 1.1 seconds at it's fastest, not 1 second.

Cathexis

This is one of the two biggest eyerolls on the whole patch. Snipe is one of the easiest abilities to avoid.

This is just feeding the crybabies who don't want to adjust their builds.

likecats wrote: »

"Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities."

So basically, 0.1 + 0.2s = 0.3s reduction.

Kind of a buff actually.

Proportionally, a 1.3s total cast time reduced to 1s is a total change of 32.5% dps, with a net gain of 12.5% dps before the increase in projectile travel time.

If the projectile travel time is increased by 1.25 seconds than the first shot would be equal dps to current. All subsequent spammed shots would see an increase of 12.5% dps, as the time between hits would be shorter (assuming the target's distance remains the same).

So it will take more shots, but hits will be in more rapid succession. So overall this is actually an increase to casting cost, rather than a decrease to damage, since every 4 seconds~ (3.9 seconds) you are now making an extra cast.

So ignoring the initial extra projectile travel time, you are paying the cost of one extra snipe for a 12.5% dps bonus. HOWEVER, it is a shift from burst oriented damage, to dps -- this affects how it compounds with other bonuses that typically compliment snipe. In practice, you will see an overall decrease in damage for reasons I won't discuss here in build implementation.

In practice this also makes it easier to dodge, since the initial burst will hit more slowly, and the impact of subsequent hits will be absorbed by an initial dodge, where before they may not have been because of a longer cast time.

If there is an error in my logic please let me know.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

From PTS Notes about Snipe: "Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles."

How does this work/look now?

So to answer this question projectile travel time adjusted proportionally to dps on the first hit would be 1.25s. So if it is lower then the initial hit would see a positive dps affect, and if it is higher than it would see a deficit - but all subsequent hits in a spam chain would sit at a 12.5% base skill dps increase with a total spam casting cost increase of 25% over 4 seconds of spam.

Now if you calculate damage as a proportion of casting cost, then in that regard, it is a damage nerf.

Again, to reiterate, because this change has subverted the burst nature of snipe to shift toward dps, the overall dps of snipe will go down.

Mathed.

sage2000

Cathexis wrote: »

crybabies who don't want to adjust their builds.

Oh, the irony.

hesobad

Pallio wrote: »

Snipe change says reduction in shot time, 1 sec from 1.1. With this change snipe is losing 25% dmg? Shoots 10% faster, with 25% less dmg.. what?

Really what we need to be praising about this change is the removal of major defile from Lethal Arrow!! Really need to thank the Nine for that one!

mcagatayg

Snipe is not the problem. Getting hit by 4 different snipes from the same person due to lag is the problem.

RandomKodiak

The dps to a pve bow build is a 3k dps nerf. 10 parses with live build on a stam sorc. So to appease the pvp community by making the skill do 25% less damage they have also killed all but warden bow builds again as no class other than warden has a ranged spamable. For you pvpers that are about to say just use crushing, just don't it sucks for bow builds with it's clunky animation, as well as being even less dps than the reduced lethal. To ZOS congratulations on fixing a pvp problem (which I fully agree was a major problem) by killing off bows once again if you don't fix this.

RandomKodiak

sage2000 Oh, the irony

There is no adjusting for pve. As my above post states it kills any bow builds for pve other than warden. For gankers congrats on abusing broken code to the point the rest of us got nerfed into oblivion.

Bladerunner1

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Snipe:
Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.
Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.
Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles.
Lethal Arrow (morph): This morph now applies Minor Defile, rather than Major Defile. This was done since the morph already has another bonus, the guaranteed chance to apply the Poisoned status effect.
Focused Aim (morph): This morph no longer increases the range in which your allies can hit the target. Instead, it reduces the cost by 5% and increases the range by 5 meters. Note that Minor Fracture remains.

I tried this on the PTS. If you weave light attacks it's not any faster than on live. It still takes about 1.3-1.4 seconds to weave light attacks between applications of focused aim.


Light attack weaving with Focused Aim


Spam with Focused Aim

At the base value it's actually higher dps to not weave light attacks and just spam focused aim, which happens around every 1.1 seconds at it's fastest, not 1 second.

Just quoting myself since now I've got the comparison to live:


Light attack weaving with Focused Aim, 1.3-1.4 seconds on live, compared to 1.3-1.4 seconds on the PTS.


Spam with Focused Aim, 1.2-1.3 seconds on live, compared to 1.1 seconds on PTS

At the base value, it's much better DPS to weave light attacks on live. The PTS is probably bugged.

Katahdin

1/10th of a second faster cast time.....big Farking deal. Like thats going to do anything to compensate for a 25% reduction in damage.

Just made snipe totally useless because the babies cried

The desync is the problem not the damage........

Rygonix

Katahdin wrote: »

1/10th of a second faster cast time.....big Farking deal. Like thats going to do anything to compensate for a 25% reduction in damage.

Just made snipe totally useless because the babies cried

Magplars feel your pain, friend.

Narvuntien

Well I have 300 ms ping so that 200 ms bonus is pretty irrelevant

Vapirko

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

From PTS Notes about Snipe: "Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles."

How does this work/look now?

I've heard its just as bad if not worse than it is on live.

MartiniDaniels

Those screenshots are somewhat unclear sorry. You need fully spec'd PVE and PVP builds and full 6M test to say if it was really nerfed that hard.

MartiniDaniels

Vapirko wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

From PTS Notes about Snipe: "Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles."

How does this work/look now?

I've heard its just as bad if not worse than it is on live.

But this is good change for both sides, no? Person which attacks can reliably and faster put first hit, while person who is attacked will receive it faster and turns on defensive and so there is less room to receive several consecutive snipes due to lag?

LoreToo

+5m range in pvp. Lol.
+ Eagle eye
+ Range near keeps
Any problems in pvp?)))))0)0)0))

templesus

Such a great change, keep it up ZOS!

Prior_priest

Hello,
I have to say my opinion on this matter because I played stamsorc PvP build utilizing snipe recently and I disagree with some of the Snipe skill changes...

At the begining, let me post the Pts 5.0.0 patch note for a Snipe skill:

Snipe:
* Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.
* Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.
* Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles.

Lethal Arrow (morph): This morph now applies Minor Defile, rather than Major Defile. This was done since the morph already has another bonus, the guaranteed chance to apply the Poisoned status effect.

Focused Aim (morph): This morph no longer increases the range in which your allies can hit the target. Instead, it reduces the cost by 5% and increases the range by 5 meters. Note that Minor Fracture remains.


So I highlighted the most important changes to that skill (at least for PvP) and placed my opinion:
Firstly, As we can see, the travel time is reduced, which really goes well with the damage reduction. I would say that this ability shouldnt stun targets when used from a sneak position and the damage of this ability should be reduced but the overall damage of this ability shouldnt be lower or the same as Crushing weapon and Cutting dive abilities. So yeah lets reduce the damage but not by 25%...

Secondly, The lethal arrow morph change is ridiculous and specifically I mean the Major defile removal. Look on the current ,,high level,, PvP. We see a lot of guys playing Heavy armor = more survivability, more heals. A lot of these builds are also utilizing Minor vitality (8% more healing received) + another sources of heals or facts which makes them strong and resistant to the attacks (Momentum, Lingering pots, blood craze, constitution passive, sets providing survivability...). So yeah, 15% of healing reduction isnt enough to fight those guys with a bow build. * Note that Sword and board skill line has Major defile on reverberating bash ability. And who primarily uses Shield and sword? Heavy armor builds...

Summary:
The change of snipe is important, but lets reduce the damage by 10 - 15%, delete the stun from stealth which this ability provides and lets keep Major defile on the Lethal arrow morph. Im satisfied with the other snipe changes tho.

Please comment answer and fight for better fighting in our PvP!
(Thank you for opening this thread Pallio I would do it myself If you wouldnt be faster!)

frostz417

Snipe nerf is fantástic. Deserved the nerf completely

Marcus_Thracius

always funny to see ppl want to nerf stuff they cant addapt to in pvp

Zulera301

with them removing the reflect ability from my DK's wings, I for one welcome the snipe nerf.

Dr_Ganknstein

They should change the ability name to "arrow" after the nerf. It's even worse for NB bow users. These are a lot of nerfs all at once:
1. Grim focus minor berserk nerf
2. Lethal arrow loses major defile nerf
3. -25% damage nerf

I mean, did they think we weren't going to buy elyswere and roll a necro?

Dr_Ganknstein

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

always funny to see ppl want to nerf stuff they cant addapt to in pvp

Exactly. People didn't want to slot purge to cleanse major defile so it got removed from a bunch of stuff. Major defile was probably one of the only reasons my warden was able to die in pvp if I didn't cleanse it soon enough lol, and he is in 5 light 2 heavy lolol.

Vizikul

If they don't revert the major defile nerf they should at least increase the minor defile duration. It's simply not balanced when a minor and a major version of the same buff also share the same duration! Major defile is twice as strong as minor defile. At least up the duration to 6 seconds for minor defile.

chris211

I want snipe nerfed even more but ill take what take what i can get

Beardimus

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

I'm more hoping that standardising the channel time also fixes the health desync that has plagued this skill in PvP. Nothing worse than dying because of health desync to a snipe stack unseen.

They said that's a bug and they def looking at it. It Came out the Class Reps notes. I'd argue as acknowledged makes it an exploit but just my personal view lol