I do not think the Nightblade Nerfs ( PVE wise ) are awful.

Azyle1

Solo parses will be worse ( unless using that fancy new trial dummy ) but other than that.. more of the same.

Losing Fracture on Surprise is a little bummer though, although the new debuff seems neat.

Nevasca

PvE wise they arguably got buffed. Magblade in pvp just got gutted even more for no reason. Merciless heal is not the reliable heal they needed, especially because you have to be melee range to proc it, when magblade usually is played as ranged.

code65536

The changes have limited effect in PvE. But for solo and PvP? Particularly magblade PvP? Um...

BlissfulDeluge

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

PvE wise they arguably got buffed. Magblade in pvp just got gutted even more for no reason. Merciless heal is not the reliable heal they needed, especially because you have to be melee range to proc it, when magblade usually is played as ranged.

Buffed how? How exactly were they buffed? Please explain, because I am arguably stumped.

Scaraben

Especially when you look at all the buffs to weapon skills, it really feels like magblade got stomped on this patch. Which is odd, when all the complaints are about stamblades.

Minor Berzerk should stay on Merciless Resolve. With that change, I can learn to tolerate this patch.

KhajiitFelix

Stop crying

LiquidPony

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

PvE wise they arguably got buffed. Magblade in pvp just got gutted even more for no reason. Merciless heal is not the reliable heal they needed, especially because you have to be melee range to proc it, when magblade usually is played as ranged.

Buffed how? How exactly were they buffed? Please explain, because I am arguably stumped.

For stamblades, Relentless Focus duration was increased from 20s to 30s. You can probably get 5 bow procs per cast now.

The 5% Physical Resistance reduction on Surprise Attack is ... interesting. Not sure that's a buff but it might be a minor one.

Assuming you're a NB in a group with Combat Prayer, the Minor Berserk change doesn't matter. That's gonna be (yet another) nerf for nightblade specs in vAS and vCR though ... and vMA, obviously. Now NBs will just run Slimecraw in that stuff like everyone else.

The loss of Minor Endurance won't matter if you have a Warden healer in group or Circle of Protection.

All-in-all, not bad. Maybe a minor buff in some places and a minor nerf in others.

JinMori

i agree, the only thing i would like to see is merciless resolve increased to 30 sec just like relentless.

Azyle1

Actually I just noticed the food nerf. That sucks for Khajiits and Orcs....

Quaesivi

LiquidPony wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

PvE wise they arguably got buffed. Magblade in pvp just got gutted even more for no reason. Merciless heal is not the reliable heal they needed, especially because you have to be melee range to proc it, when magblade usually is played as ranged.

Buffed how? How exactly were they buffed? Please explain, because I am arguably stumped.

For stamblades, Relentless Focus duration was increased from 20s to 30s. You can probably get 5 bow procs per cast now.

The 5% Physical Resistance reduction on Surprise Attack is ... interesting. Not sure that's a buff but it might be a minor one.

Assuming you're a NB in a group with Combat Prayer, the Minor Berserk change doesn't matter. That's gonna be (yet another) nerf for nightblade specs in vAS and vCR though ... and vMA, obviously. Now NBs will just run Slimecraw in that stuff like everyone else.

The loss of Minor Endurance won't matter if you have a Warden healer in group or Circle of Protection.

All-in-all, not bad. Maybe a minor buff in some places and a minor nerf in others.

Great... on paper.
And what about magblades?

luizpaulom17

Cry baby cry
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better.
So cry baby cry.

The nerfs are good for the game, it makes it more balanced! Also, the surprise attack nerf is a buff since in a group U will have major fracture from the tank!

Kidgangster101

You guys are crying because you lost 8% berserk but teleport strike gives you 8% vulnerablility...... I've never seen so many people cry over a small loss when NB got huge buffs this update while classes like sorc and dk didn't get much tbh..... Yep we play the world's smallest violin for all stamblades that think they got nerfed lol.

kathandira

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

You guys are crying because you lost 8% berserk but teleport strike gives you 8% vulnerablility...... I've never seen so many people cry over a small loss when NB got huge buffs this update while classes like sorc and dk didn't get much tbh..... Yep we play the world's smallest violin for all stamblades that think they got nerfed lol.

Totally. Lotus Fan could be the fix here.

Nevasca

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

PvE wise they arguably got buffed. Magblade in pvp just got gutted even more for no reason. Merciless heal is not the reliable heal they needed, especially because you have to be melee range to proc it, when magblade usually is played as ranged.

Buffed how? How exactly were they buffed? Please explain, because I am arguably stumped.

If I understood correctly cripple will do the same dps but will be easier to keep it up 100% uptime since it's 10s now. Minor berserker loss probably negible in good groups.

That's why I said "arguably". They will probably remain in the same place in the meta. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

exeeter702

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

You guys are crying because you lost 8% berserk but teleport strike gives you 8% vulnerablility...... I've never seen so many people cry over a small loss when NB got huge buffs this update while classes like sorc and dk didn't get much tbh..... Yep we play the world's smallest violin for all stamblades that think they got nerfed lol.

This thread is about pve in which both combat prayer and concussed / infallible are almost always present.

NyassaV

PvP is fine and in PvP stambalde is fine. Magbalde just got spat on tho

highnds

The changes just make nightblade a tad more group friendly and forces the player to actually have to be more strategic with movement and position. Not mad, as I main Stamblade. However on the current PTS, I'm not noticing an increase in damage for Surprise Attack after the physical resistance debuff is applied.

Tasear

They got a lot more utility. Minor mangle, 1k penetration for allies, minor vulnerability. It looks fun.

The losts are made up in grouplay

Kolzki

A third consecutive patch with sustain nerfs for stamblades is a pain. I’m already running full medium, sustain food, vampire and an absorb stamina glyph following previous changes.

Sure there are other sources of minor endurance but I don’t often see them used and I don’t see that changing on account of stamblades losing the buff.

John_Falstaff

Speaking of penetration debuffs, I'm slightly confused by the wording - is the penetration calculated off the remaining resistances after all other debuffs are applied, or before that? In other words, does that 5% debuff act like TBaB bonus for maces?

Undefwun

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

You guys are crying because you lost 8% berserk but teleport strike gives you 8% vulnerablility...... I've never seen so many people cry over a small loss when NB got huge buffs this update while classes like sorc and dk didn't get much tbh..... Yep we play the world's smallest violin for all stamblades that think they got nerfed lol.

Did you read the same patch notes?
DKs got some nice buffs. I play a lil bit StamDK, but my friend mains a magDK and also plays a stamDK and he was pretty stoked with the notes...

Kolzki

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Speaking of penetration debuffs, I'm slightly confused by the wording - is the penetration calculated off the remaining resistances after all other debuffs are applied, or before that? In other words, does that 5% debuff act like TBaB bonus for maces?

I was about to ask the same question. If it’s computed before other debuffs then nice. If computed afterwards then it would be a very small armour debuff in pve.

John_Falstaff

Undefwun wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

You guys are crying because you lost 8% berserk but teleport strike gives you 8% vulnerablility...... I've never seen so many people cry over a small loss when NB got huge buffs this update while classes like sorc and dk didn't get much tbh..... Yep we play the world's smallest violin for all stamblades that think they got nerfed lol.

Did you read the same patch notes?
DKs got some nice buffs. I play a lil bit StamDK, but my friend mains a magDK and also plays a stamDK and he was pretty stoked with the notes...

Did you read them? StamDK got next to no buffs, excluding a small boost to still weak and clumsy Noxious Breath. At the same time, StamDK lost the cheapest spammable in the game and now forced to use out of class expensive, clumsy spammables again (and no, Flurry is still riddled with a ton of issues regardless of the damage buff). So, the spec got poorer with this patch, sustain worse, even tanking on DK got nerfed (no more reflecting defiles in vBRP, for instance).

Izaki

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

PvE wise they arguably got buffed. Magblade in pvp just got gutted even more for no reason. Merciless heal is not the reliable heal they needed, especially because you have to be melee range to proc it, when magblade usually is played as ranged.

Buffed how? How exactly were they buffed? Please explain, because I am arguably stumped.

30 second Relentless and 5% resistance debuff (in raids that means about 17 less CP to put into Piercing). And Caltrops initial hit got buffed by 350% too.

John_Falstaff

Izaki wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

PvE wise they arguably got buffed. Magblade in pvp just got gutted even more for no reason. Merciless heal is not the reliable heal they needed, especially because you have to be melee range to proc it, when magblade usually is played as ranged.

Buffed how? How exactly were they buffed? Please explain, because I am arguably stumped.

30 second Relentless and 5% resistance debuff (in raids that means about 17 less CP to put into Piercing). And Caltrops initial hit got buffed by 350% too.

Read above. It's not necessarily true that 5% debuff applies before other debuffs. If it applies like bonus of maces, after Alkosh/Crusher/Fracture have been already subtracted, then the debuff will be next to nonexistent.

kathandira

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

PvE wise they arguably got buffed. Magblade in pvp just got gutted even more for no reason. Merciless heal is not the reliable heal they needed, especially because you have to be melee range to proc it, when magblade usually is played as ranged.

Buffed how? How exactly were they buffed? Please explain, because I am arguably stumped.

30 second Relentless and 5% resistance debuff (in raids that means about 17 less CP to put into Piercing). And Caltrops initial hit got buffed by 350% too.

Read above. It's not necessarily true that 5% debuff applies before other debuffs. If it applies like bonus of maces, after Alkosh/Crusher/Fracture have been already subtracted, then the debuff will be next to nonexistent.

I see it this way in that case.

The Minor Berserk was already being applied in Trials from healers, so it was redundant and unused. If the Minor Vulnerability is applied before those buffs and ends up redundant and unused, then there is no change for NBs.

However, in solo play, or 4 man groups without anyone else applying Minor Berserk, it was useful. Just as in solo play or 4 man groups, if Alkosh/Crusher/Fracture are not being applied then Minor Vulnerability is useful.

It's all situational.

John_Falstaff

@kathandira , um, sorry, I failed to understand most of what you wrote. First, you probably meant Minor Berserk, not Minor Force - it's the Minor Berserk that healers give with Combat Prayer. Second, Minor Vulnerability has nothing to do with target resistances (and resistance debuffs like Fracture, Crusher and NB's new 5% debuff), it's orthogonal to the topic in question.

And finally, in 4-man content, you will almost always have infused Crusher and Major Fracture from tank, that alone makes 5% of the remaining part of 18.2k boss resistance amount to whopping 540 penetration - not a whole lot.

Kolzki

Reapers mark seems to be in a weird place now for anything solo without a tank. It’s the class source of major fracture so should be placed on the main target. But it gives major berserk on kill so should be placed on an add. And it can’t be placed on both.

Or do we just slot it for dummy parses or the 2% crit bonus?

kathandira

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@kathandira , um, sorry, I failed to understand most of what you wrote. First, you probably meant Minor Berserk, not Minor Force - it's the Minor Berserk that healers give with Combat Prayer. Second, Minor Vulnerability has nothing to do with target resistances (and resistance debuffs like Fracture, Crusher and NB's new 5% debuff), it's orthogonal to the topic in question.

And finally, in 4-man content, you will almost always have infused Crusher and Major Fracture from tank, that alone makes 5% of the remaining part of 18.2k boss resistance amount to whopping 540 penetration - not a whole lot.

Whoops, you are right, I meant Berserk.

To your point about 4 mans, the healer and tank give off the majority of buffs, that is true. Which is part of why i'm not worried about the loss of Minor Berserk. My healer can provide that.

I got confused by the buff names.

Kuramas9tails

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

You guys are crying because you lost 8% berserk but teleport strike gives you 8% vulnerablility...... I've never seen so many people cry over a small loss when NB got huge buffs this update while classes like sorc and dk didn't get much tbh..... Yep we play the world's smallest violin for all stamblades that think they got nerfed lol.

It affected Mageblades as well.........

actosh

The Dark Cloak nerf is awful and just because of pvp. Duration doubled, healing halved, now more useless then arctic wind.
The bursty/dot attitude the skill got was rly okay and fittet in perfectly. Getting sick of nerfs being called out just for pvp, cause noone could say nb tank was too strong ^^