Console PVE needs Combat Metrics BADLY

SkoobySnaxx

Anyone else on console sick of progressing hardmode vet trials for months with doodoo dps? I spend so much gold on good pots and practice my rotation when im 100% sure theres some people in the group using trash pots cuz theyre cheap and not having a good time on target. Console really needs combat metrics to expose those whos just wasting other peoples time trying to get carried through a content. ZOS i hope you guys make this happen for console players. Lets say were doing vmaw and after a wipe or a complete fight we can just type "/dps rhakat" or "/dps Hulk" and itll pop up our dmg. itll be a pretty sweet change for pve if we can have that!

Kel

Yes, this is why Zos disabled metrics in the first place a few years back...you're not using it to improve yourself, you're looking for reasons to kick people.

If you're trying to give an example of why this shouldn't be implemented, you've done a wonderful job with this post...

Siohwenoeht

This is the worst way to use this kind of thing and exactly what causes toxicity. If you're truly running "progression" groups in trials then you should know exactly who you are running with and what they are running before you step foot in the content.

No one should pug progression runs. If you don't trust the people you're running with why are you running with them?

Alucardo

Why don't you just make the command called /shame, as that's all you'll be doing for people with below average DPS

SkoobySnaxx

but thats the thing though. No one is progressing for months because they are not trying to improve! theres no improvement unless theres combat metrics. same thing 5k dps everyday get a group of 12 ppl and have 4 ppl in the group pull 10k dps for months and the issue will be "because this isnt dying fast enough" itll be easier to progress if we knew what peoples time on target is and say "hey work on this" i dont see why that is toxic. how bout i be in a progression group and use trash pots and just light attack the boss and pop shields for 5 months in. Just completely waste peoples time that are trying their hardest yeah?

Kel

Combat metrics aren't going to miraculously help someone improve overnight.
If you're "wasting months" running with the same people, that's on your poor choice on who you're letting into your runs..combat metrics aren't going to help you.

You're looking to point a finger...full stop.
Again, that's exactly why Zos disabled this to begin with. You are actually hurting your case the more you say.

Siohwenoeht

Don't you require a dummy test before you let someone in the group? Pretty easy to time how long someone takes to take down a 3mil or 6mil if you test for sustain.

Combat metrics should be used for tweaking purposes, not to call out the low dps in your group.

robvs

So why did they allow it on pc?

Miswar

SkoobySnaxx wrote: »

Anyone else on console sick of progressing hardmode vet trials for months with doodoo dps? I spend so much gold on good pots and practice my rotation when im 100% sure theres some people in the group using trash pots cuz theyre cheap and not having a good time on target. Console really needs combat metrics to expose those whos just wasting other peoples time trying to get carried through a content. ZOS i hope you guys make this happen for console players. Lets say were doing vmaw and after a wipe or a complete fight we can just type "/dps rhakat" or "/dps Hulk" and itll pop up our dmg. itll be a pretty sweet change for pve if we can have that!

It could be that the metrics will show that you are the weakest link and lowest dps. That would be something wouldn't it

FierceSam

There are many positives about being able to measure one’s own performance. I appreciate the need for a better combat metrics on all platforms for individual use only.

There are many, many disadvantages about being able to measure the performance (or any other data) of others. I think it’s a really bad idea.

You only have to look at the “ESO logs, good or bad?” thread to see the issues https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/468224/eso-logs-invasive-or-useful#latest

OP sounds like a perfect example of why public sharing of an individual player’s performance data would be a hugely divisive and bad idea.

I don’t want other people sneak peaking into my data and using it to abuse me

XiDiabolismiX

Kel wrote: »

Yes, this is why Zos disabled metrics in the first place a few years back...you're not using it to improve yourself, you're looking for reasons to kick people.

If you're trying to give an example of why this shouldn't be implemented, you've done a wonderful job with this post...

First off, if someone isn’t performing up to par when there’s 11 other people trying to utilize their time to achieve something, then they have every right to be called out to either improve or kick rocks.

It’s not just their happy little place that they’re screwing up, it’s 11 other people’s time when they could be doing something better with it...

Most people don’t think about that because they’re too embarrassed about themselves when they do something wrong. Either improve or leave..

ccfeeling

They care? Lol

Kel

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Yes, this is why Zos disabled metrics in the first place a few years back...you're not using it to improve yourself, you're looking for reasons to kick people.

If you're trying to give an example of why this shouldn't be implemented, you've done a wonderful job with this post...

First off, if someone isn’t performing up to par when there’s 11 other people trying to utilize their time to achieve something, then they have every right to be called out to either improve or kick rocks.

It’s not just their happy little place that they’re screwing up, it’s 11 other people’s time when they could be doing something better with it...

Most people don’t think about that because they’re too embarrassed about themselves when they do something wrong. Either improve or leave..

This attitude is exactly why it'll never work the way you want it to.
Even now, you're not going to get instant feed back..its going to take hours (days?) to get results.
So, either way, your not going to get to call out anyone. It doesn't (and won't) work like that largely because players with attitudes like yours.

So, there you go..sorry to rain on your little toxic parade. You're still not getting what you want...😂

P.S. if you're running HM content without a parse first, and you're complaining about people not carrying their weight, then it's on you for letting those players run with you in the first place. If you're trying to run HM pugs, you get what you get...

TequilaFire

Only if it is private to me so I can self improve.

SoLooney

This is completely fair for serious progression trials groups. Every has a right to know what each dps is pulling every boss fight. This should also be applied to healers and tanks to see how good up times on certain debuffs like alkosh and combat prayer.

I know this would be used to shame and grief pugs in dungeons and pug trials but the tool is widely used on pc. Why shouldnt it be a feature on consoles?

Maybe have the option to not show your dps when running pugs but if you're raiding seriously in your trials guild, allow everyone to see what your dps is

It's easy to see if tanks or healers are doing their jobs but dps can easily mask their dps ons raid environment assuming they follow mechanics.

At OP, I suggest talking to your guild leader who you think is underperforming and have him clip an entire boss fight to see what they exactly do. I caught a dps literally heavy and light attack spamming in his clips and he improved after some advice

LeagueTroll

Protect the potatoes and prevent contributing folks make real progression. Seems very fair.

jircris11

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Protect the potatoes and prevent contributing folks make real progression. Seems very fair.

Honestly not everyone loves running FOTM builds and we're all know what happened if you don't run those, you lack dps. Honestly a way to measure would be nice but gamers can't be trusted to not betoxic trash to others who are "weak" simply because they run a build they prefer vs the high dps build everyone else runs.

Hallothiel

Nope. Would stop running trials if this came to consoles. Far too much chance of it being used in the unpleasant manner mentioned in the op.

The only possible way this could be acceptable is if it was only for self, and not anyone else.

And is the combat metric on the pc an add-on or part of the game?

LeagueTroll

jircris11 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Protect the potatoes and prevent contributing folks make real progression. Seems very fair.

Honestly not everyone loves running FOTM builds and we're all know what happened if you don't run those, you lack dps. Honestly a way to measure would be nice but gamers can't be trusted to not betoxic trash to others who are "weak" simply because they run a build they prefer vs the high dps build everyone else runs.

I don’t care about what build they run, I rarely even play dd. At the end the day, group dps need ti be nuf otherwise the tank suffer as well.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

I used skada and recount when I played WoW. Frequently they were used for nothing more than kicking people from pugs, bragging about how much DPS someone did or to shame a player. There were times where a single bad run of an otherwise decent player resulted in a vote kick that it should not have happened. I'm all for some mechanism for a player to see their own metrics. However I have yet to see a tool that is restricted player only and until such time feel they are better left out of games as they have too many negatives and not enough positives.

jircris11

LeagueTroll wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Protect the potatoes and prevent contributing folks make real progression. Seems very fair.

Honestly not everyone loves running FOTM builds and we're all know what happened if you don't run those, you lack dps. Honestly a way to measure would be nice but gamers can't be trusted to not betoxic trash to others who are "weak" simply because they run a build they prefer vs the high dps build everyone else runs.

I don’t care about what build they run, I rarely even play dd. At the end the day, group dps need ti be nuf otherwise the tank suffer as well.

There are also those who do experimental builds, so sadly a number show wont help in your case and instead only cause more issues. I run a ww build, it's a build that takes time to get rolling but once in my ww form I can out dps fotm players with ease. Sadly it would not show with a measure in the manner you want.

Daedric_NB_187

No. We don't want it on console. Let the #pcmasterrace keep it on their side of the pond. Along with all the bs that goes along with it.

StormeReigns

Plus meters / metrics / logs can be easily cheesed, to make one look good and others bad to justify terrible behaviors and unwarranted single minded call outs and kicks for <idiotic reasons>.

Unless you're really pushing to do progressive end game / top tiered content / world firsts. You dont really need logs, meters, metrics. Just offer friendly advice and group with them and help them get better.

siddique

If you know people who aren't pulling their weight, help them. You didn't fall into ESO fully experienced.

Starlock

Nope. I’m extremely glad privacy invading spyware is going to be PC only.

Strider__Roshin

What's worse is the people with pitiful DPS that are wasting the time of 11 other people. Not wanting to add this is essentially saying let's waste everyone's time for the sake of one person's feelings who may not even realize they're underperforming and therefore the problem will ultimately never get resolved.

Kel

Daus wrote: »

What's worse is the people with pitiful DPS that are wasting the time of 11 other people. Not wanting to add this is essentially saying let's waste everyone's time for the sake of one person's feelings who may not even realize they're underperforming and therefore the problem will ultimately never get resolved.

The problem with meters/metrics is that someone will always be at the bottom. Even if it's a 2% difference from top to bottom, I've seen that bottom player get shamed. Happens frequently in WoW. ESO has always done a good job of being fairly inclusive...if you guys want to blow that up, that's your business I guess..
We're talking an extra minute or 5 here in dps and the speed of killing bosses...the line of "wasted time" is a great exaggeration. A bad player dies frequently and can cause wasted time. Dying has little to nothing to do with dps numbers, however. I know plenty of high dps parsers who spend more time on the floor than doing dps.

StormeReigns

Daus wrote: »

What's worse is the people with pitiful DPS that are wasting the time of 11 other people. Not wanting to add this is essentially saying let's waste everyone's time for the sake of one person's feelings who may not even realize they're underperforming and therefore the problem will ultimately never get resolved.

Hypothetical:
My meter says I am pulling 6k more dps then you are.
Your meter says you are top dps by 12k, wanting to kick lowest dps.

3rd dps claims they are as well as i am middle of pack for dps, plus stating you are 3rd from bottom in dps

The rest all claim that everyone is about 1% off from eachother dps wise all are even.

Lowest dps listed is a support / heal build who has highest hps listed

So, who cheesed their meter who gets kicked?

Camb0Sl1ce

I would like it on console also, or something like it. Even something as simple as seeing if oneself is over penetrating.

Kidgangster101

There definitely should be a scoreboard that you can view during the dungeon for sure. Too many times DPS is bad and instead of admitting that their dps is low they blame the tank or the healer and that should be unacceptable.

At the given time there is no way to prove dps is low so most groups will say DPS is fine when in reality tanks or healers pull more DPS than the actual DPS.

With a scoreboard people can view total damage to make sure people are doing decent damage, deaths so that people know who might not be trying to avoid mechanics, healing out so people can know that their healers are doing their job, pick ups so that if someone has low damage or healing at least people know they are picking up dead people.

Now this is not an elitist thing, but rather if this info was available more people would do their job. People say it is toxic, but in DCUO they had this system and it actually did the opposite. The fact that all this was viewable made everyone up their game and become better players. If people can not see they are bad and they think they are good, the numbers are needed so they can try to improve. And again I'm not saying they need to be top level but there is no reason a DPS can't do 20k+ especially with how powerful light attacks are tbh.

FierceSam

SkerKro wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

What's worse is the people with pitiful DPS that are wasting the time of 11 other people. Not wanting to add this is essentially saying let's waste everyone's time for the sake of one person's feelings who may not even realize they're underperforming and therefore the problem will ultimately never get resolved.

Hypothetical:
My meter says I am pulling 6k more dps then you are.
Your meter says you are top dps by 12k, wanting to kick lowest dps.

3rd dps claims they are as well as i am middle of pack for dps, plus stating you are 3rd from bottom in dps

The rest all claim that everyone is about 1% off from eachother dps wise all are even.

Lowest dps listed is a support / heal build who has highest hps listed

So, who cheesed their meter who gets kicked?

Only thing I know is that I would hate to be running with that group - the attitude stinks. It’s legitimising elitist in-game bullying and is a rancid way of either getting a good group together or trying to improve as a team.