How about instead on no death runs for skins, no wipe?

Bigevilpeter

Of all the achievements for dungeon skins no death runs seems the cheapest. The amount of randomness in dungeons is huge and you are not even fully in control of your team so may not even be your fault, also if one dies from a fall or anything the whole achievement is ruined.

I am also against the beat vet get skin thing they did with DoM, because everyone is running with the skin now.

So my suggestion make it to make it no wipe runs, that way it would be less random and actually sees if the team knows mechanics well.

Hard mode is fun and challenging and beating it requires a lot of experience

Speed runs is also fun and doable if team is experienced and have good dps.

That way it will be a reward for actually being good and less of being lucky.

MartiniDaniels

Great idea but it will be obviously easy exploited in various ways plus people who are tryhard enough will be *****d off that their achievements were in vain. So there is zero point for ZOS to do this.

idk

Why don't we just make the content easier. Maybe just give the skins away if the player enters the instance.

Ectheliontnacil

idk wrote: »

Why don't we just make the content easier. Maybe just give the skins away if the player enters the instance.

I can see the sarcasm but it's actually not a bad idea. I mean I get that people feel the need to flex with their achievements. I'm no different mind you. Running around in bather's towels in craglorn when I got vAS skin back in the day. ^^

But why hide the best cosmetics behind content that is completely out of reach for the bulk of the playerbase. And incidentally it's exactly the casuals (roleplayers and such) who would enjoy those rewards the most. Imo the titles, the op weapons and gear and monster helms should be enough of an incentive to do no death runs/hm runs.
Perhaps zos could add some super valuable drops to perfect runs (drops like the asylum polymorph).

sudaki_eso

But that would make it even easier and you cant feel special anymore?! I agree about the luck, this is bad by design but how often does a halfway experience group of players fail at a dungeon as a whole group aka wipe? Not often i would say...no death is fine as long there is no luck or rng involved.

Tasear

idk wrote: »

Why don't we just make the content easier. Maybe just give the skins away if the player enters the instance.

Just make it a vet reward so people actually use the skins. I see wrathstone one is very popular.

TheGreatBlackBear

The audacity of scrubs these days.

zaria

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Great idea but it will be obviously easy exploited in various ways plus people who are tryhard enough will be *****d off that their achievements were in vain. So there is zero point for ZOS to do this.

How many people wipe on purpose?
Making it personal rater than none in group dies is an better than no wipes or none dying.
No wipes is a bit easy while no dead at all is hard.

RogueShark

The necro healer ult... just gonna throw that out there. xD

The only dungeon I've felt had really stupid RNG has been SCP hardmode. Especially with the way the poison cone works. It should almost never happen, but I have had the shield synergy land on top of the stoned person so. Many. Times. And usually someone dies (either I have to unstone them synergize the shield; it's stupid that's even possible).
Don't have to HM for the no-death achieve, tho there is the whole 'everything at once' achieve.

idk

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Why don't we just make the content easier. Maybe just give the skins away if the player enters the instance.

I can see the sarcasm but it's actually not a bad idea. I mean I get that people feel the need to flex with their achievements. I'm no different mind you. Running around in bather's towels in craglorn when I got vAS skin back in the day. ^^

But why hide the best cosmetics behind content that is completely out of reach for the bulk of the playerbase. And incidentally it's exactly the casuals (roleplayers and such) who would enjoy those rewards the most. Imo the titles, the op weapons and gear and monster helms should be enough of an incentive to do no death runs/hm runs.
Perhaps zos could add some super valuable drops to perfect runs (drops like the asylum polymorph).

It is a bad idea. It would trash the game to make the harder content ridiculously easy which is essentially what you suggest.

When Craglorn was released I was clearly the AA and HRC soon after. I realized Zos had not thought through end game content for the masses and had ignored the causal player. When TG was added they began to change this for trials with the addition of a normal mode. They took this a step further and made normal and vet modes for all dungeons.

That was great for the game.

Further , Zos has placed titles and reward and different levels of difficulty. Off hand I recall Vvardenfell offered many different rewards from costumes to personalities in regular zone content. Just as having different difficulty of content is good for the game it is also good to have rewards at different difficulty levels. Zos has continued this as well.

One of the big differences between groups that clear dungeons with a no death vs most that clear it is that group with the no death put a lot of effort and time into it. That no death did not just happen.

BTW, in my previous game I used to raid with RPers. We cleared the harder content. Being an RP player does not mean you are not a good player. It is a choice of playstyle.

Darkenarlol

i can feel that pain...

when your pre-made party f**ks up your no-death run in 40th + time...

just make it PERSONAL no-death... why should i suffer again and again

smashing my keyboard into pieces because of some %^*&head ^&*(ks up

mechanics for 42 th time?

spartaxoxo

I agree with you. The no death run is not a reflection of individual skill.

Mettaricana

Why does there have to be a hard mode for everything devs often mistake challenge for fun. 200 wipes with randoms does not scream take my money i love this torture...

pauli133

How about instead on no death runs for skins, no wipe?

This is a good concept - it emphasizes teamplay, adapting to changing circumstances, and adds an extra rush of satisfaction to dramatic saves. "One person died, time to start from scratch" does not meet my definition of good gameplay.

The downside is that it would, presumably, require recalibrating content to maintain the designed challenge level. These things were difficult to get for a reason; if that reason still holds, then the dungeons would probably need to get more difficult to compensate.

Intextio

It is meant to be hard. With the Necro coming out during Elsweyr, a no wipe is much easier to get then a no death. Instead of asking the devs to make it easier, put in the effort to conquer the challenge.

idk

Mettaricana wrote: »

Why does there have to be a hard mode for everything devs often mistake challenge for fun. 200 wipes with randoms does not scream take my money i love this torture...

The devs created 3 difficulty levels so everyone has can enjoy the game even if they choose to not excel. It is a good thing cater to all playstyles. It is also a good thing to encourage players to improve and offer rewards to encourage activities. There are rewards in the game that do not require clearing HM content.

zaria

idk wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Why don't we just make the content easier. Maybe just give the skins away if the player enters the instance.

I can see the sarcasm but it's actually not a bad idea. I mean I get that people feel the need to flex with their achievements. I'm no different mind you. Running around in bather's towels in craglorn when I got vAS skin back in the day. ^^

But why hide the best cosmetics behind content that is completely out of reach for the bulk of the playerbase. And incidentally it's exactly the casuals (roleplayers and such) who would enjoy those rewards the most. Imo the titles, the op weapons and gear and monster helms should be enough of an incentive to do no death runs/hm runs.
Perhaps zos could add some super valuable drops to perfect runs (drops like the asylum polymorph).

It is a bad idea. It would trash the game to make the harder content ridiculously easy which is essentially what you suggest.

When Craglorn was released I was clearly the AA and HRC soon after. I realized Zos had not thought through end game content for the masses and had ignored the causal player. When TG was added they began to change this for trials with the addition of a normal mode. They took this a step further and made normal and vet modes for all dungeons.

That was great for the game.

Further , Zos has placed titles and reward and different levels of difficulty. Off hand I recall Vvardenfell offered many different rewards from costumes to personalities in regular zone content. Just as having different difficulty of content is good for the game it is also good to have rewards at different difficulty levels. Zos has continued this as well.

One of the big differences between groups that clear dungeons with a no death vs most that clear it is that group with the no death put a lot of effort and time into it. That no death did not just happen.

BTW, in my previous game I used to raid with RPers. We cleared the harder content. Being an RP player does not mean you are not a good player. It is a choice of playstyle.

Yes, you want non death mostly to level undaunted who make fall damage in CoA1 so annoying.

And RP, one in my old WOW guild was an dwarf tank, he got an pug request from another guild who needed tank for an raid, he joined in and found it was an gnome RP guild, once on voice his first comment was "for once I feel tall".
He was more than 50% higher than them, raid was pretty smooth and an bit above our pay grade.

Bigevilpeter

idk wrote: »

Why don't we just make the content easier. Maybe just give the skins away if the player enters the instance.

There is a difference between hard and unfair. We can just make all mobs in dungeons 1 shot you, would that be challenging? no it would be unfair. It still wouldnt be easy as last boss mechanics usually case a wipe or two and you'd have to start over, by that reasoning speed runs are so easy, because anyone who knows the dungeon can just run through it. Its not it takes a lot of time to get comfortable enough with the dungeon to get a no wipe or speed run and hardmode will always be hard

NordSwordnBoard

RogueShark wrote: »

The necro healer ult... just gonna throw that out there. xD

The only dungeon I've felt had really stupid RNG has been SCP hardmode. Especially with the way the poison cone works. It should almost never happen, but I have had the shield synergy land on top of the stoned person so. Many. Times. And usually someone dies (either I have to unstone them synergize the shield; it's stupid that's even possible).
Don't have to HM for the no-death achieve, tho there is the whole 'everything at once' achieve.

Two Necro support, playing specifically to prevent a wipe, would make it too easy.

FR0STDEE

Move along guys, just another elitist circle jerk.

peacenote

Interesting that a few comments think that "no death" is meant to show off individual skill. I would assume that its intent is to encourage things like group coordination and players taking the time to help others with mechanics. It would not have been difficult to make the achievement "no personal death."

I am OK with some skins being behind "no death" and some being easier to obtain. Switch it up.

I like the idea of having some "no wipe" achievements because I think it might add a little extra fun to some of those fights where everyone is down except that one person who goes on to get the last 5% of the boss on their own. And the group cheers!

I don't think the old achievements should be changed, but rather that ZOS should keep slipping in some more easily accessible skins as dungeons keep being released. Maybe introduce "no wipe" as another option.

DLM

zaria wrote: »

Making it personal rater than none in group dies is an better than no wipes or none dying.

This is exactly how this achievement should be. Why should I be punished if someone stands in stupid? If I make it alive through the whole dungeon that should be enough to unlock the achievement.

Bigevilpeter

DLM wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Making it personal rater than none in group dies is an better than no wipes or none dying.

This is exactly how this achievement should be. Why should I be punished if someone stands in stupid? If I make it alive through the whole dungeon that should be enough to unlock the achievement.

problem with that is some people might use selfish defensive sets and not care about their team. Also tanks would have a huge advantage in this achievement because tanks mostly die on a wipe.

I believe the no wipe is good for a challenge but not too unfair. Not saying older ones should be changed but the new ones should be like this, its a sweet spot between no death and just beating vet

SaintSubwayy

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Why don't we just make the content easier. Maybe just give the skins away if the player enters the instance.

I can see the sarcasm but it's actually not a bad idea. I mean I get that people feel the need to flex with their achievements. I'm no different mind you. Running around in bather's towels in craglorn when I got vAS skin back in the day. ^^

But why hide the best cosmetics behind content that is completely out of reach for the bulk of the playerbase. And incidentally it's exactly the casuals (roleplayers and such) who would enjoy those rewards the most. Imo the titles, the op weapons and gear and monster helms should be enough of an incentive to do no death runs/hm runs.
Perhaps zos could add some super valuable drops to perfect runs (drops like the asylum polymorph).

resulting in even more whining than we have from OP in this post?

noo thx, the rewards that you get now are already good enough, if ppl want it then they shoul dget a group and learn some mechanics etc and get it themselfs.
The endless asking for nerfs and watering down of content is unbearable atm, stop this entitelment bullcrap.
but I guess those ppl will only stopp when the endgamecommunity has left completly, and nobody is left to rovide them with builds etc. then they realise that their behaviour wasnt as good as they thought

ArchMikem

With the number of one shots that can happen id support this too. An otherwise well done run can steal that achievement from you cause someone got oneshot for an 80k backhand.

HappyLittleTree

Get to know the mechanics, l2p...win...brag.

The new Meridia skin was way too easy to achieve in my opinion....takes away the fun of optaining a skin.

Why would I want to do the dungeon again?
I have the thing i want from it and a pet as a end game reward is just lazy.
Would rather have a mount or maybe even a unique costume.

Dumping down the game even more will just take away the fun of the game.

ccfeeling

From my point of view , please don't change the current system .
Skin should be obtained by competed all 3 achievements .

You want it , work hard , isn't it ?

notyuu

As much as you hate it, making the skin drop for beating it on vet mode put it within reach of mid-tier and up players[which is a good thing], rather than the previous requirements that limited who could get the skin to the ultra elite only, and even then if you missed the bandwagon at the dlc launch you more than likely will never get it as a the few people you can find which are capable of even doing such bs tier hardmodes [looking at you blackmarrow skin with your 700+ hm attempts] they won't do it even for the offer of several million gold [believe me, i've offered them 5mil per person and got turned down] due to, and i quote "I'm not going to put myself through that hell again"

tl;dr changing dlc dungson so skin drops for beating vet = more people get to enjoy the content they paid for and less bs rage

Vildebill

Give the skin away but just logging in. I hate to work to get something. That's why I want money but I don't want to work. Why can't I get that?