ESO will never be remembered for its balance but rather its fun gameplay

NinchiTV

I think we should go the opposite route with class changes and start buffing the original 4 classes, remember when DK could leap in the keeps 2nd floor if positioned just right? I never even played DK and i always thought that was a valid reason to get in the keep alternatively. Do you remember when templars had a cc with their jabs or sorcs had their stun with their frag? (cant think of anything for NB, those buggers always were in a good spot) anyway i think instead of nerfing classes we need to make them up to par with wardens and (from the looks of it) necro. And most importantly listen to what we want in our game, yes the consumers who spend hundreds of dollars and hours in the game. You may have your own vision of the game and its future which as devs you have every right too but please dont make the same mistakes the old combat team made - making changes for changes sake and ignoring what we want in the game. Right now you guys are doing a good job and from what content creators are saying you guys are making good changes like the snipe nerf & changes to spin to win. In the end, i think we would much rather see more fun and unique class buffs then nerfs.

Tan9oSuccka

You lost me at “Leaping over walls to cheap others is a valid tactic”.

This is coming from a Stam DK main.

VaranisArano

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You lost me at “Leaping over walls to cheap others is a valid tactic”.

This is coming from a Stam DK main.

That's where they lost me too.

Fun, sure, but its an exploit.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/278031/cyrodiil-cheating-exploiting-you/p1

Jeremy

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

I think we should go the opposite route with class changes and start buffing the original 4 classes, remember when DK could leap in the keeps 2nd floor if positioned just right? I never even played DK and i always thought that was a valid reason to get in the keep alternatively. Do you remember when templars had a cc with their jabs or sorcs had their stun with their frag? (cant think of anything for NB, those buggers always were in a good spot) anyway i think instead of nerfing classes we need to make them up to par with wardens and (from the looks of it) necro. And most importantly listen to what we want in our game, yes the consumers who spend hundreds of dollars and hours in the game. You may have your own vision of the game and its future which as devs you have every right too but please dont make the same mistakes the old combat team made - making changes for changes sake and ignoring what we want in the game. Right now you guys are doing a good job and from what content creators are saying you guys are making good changes like the snipe nerf & changes to spin to win. In the end, i think we would much rather see more fun and unique class buffs then nerfs.

I also remember when unstoppable effectively protected you from knock back and disabling effects. I miss that one.

Ertosi

Personally, I've never worried about balance between the classes and have always focused on having fun with the gameplay. I've got mag and stam versions of each class and they're all a blast to play and all unique! I honestly view ESO more like an asymmetric game and wouldn't mind even more differentiation between the classes. Whenever current meta complains that only X class is viable or is ahead, I don't consider it a flaw of the game, I consider the true problem as a lack of imagination of the players.

Tonnopesce

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You lost me at “Leaping over walls to cheap others is a valid tactic”.

This is coming from a Stam DK main.

Well it was fun...
The best "strategy" was to leap in two and to have a pocket healer spamming bol from outside it was hella fun

Kova

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You lost me at “Leaping over walls to cheap others is a valid tactic”.

This is coming from a Stam DK main.

See, that's what the OP is getting at though, and I wholly agree. It takes a really special person to defend that the game is balanced PvP wise, and said person usually can't show the numbers to prove it.

But eso was never suppose to be a balanced, competitive game. Its PvP was marketed as huge AvA fights, hundreds on the screen at once, and being able to creatively fight.

Now it's just tryhards that circle meshes like weasels running the same three builds with slight variations that make them feel "unique."

And if leaping onto walls gets your jimmies rustled, but players literally flying through the air during a gap close doesn't, then I just don't see where the line is.

Seriously, this game use to be so much fun and allowed unbelievable amounts of creativity. Sorcs could curve streak, dk chains and leaps were amazing positioning skills, nightblades could ambush at steep angles.

Now your boots are stuck to the ground, speed has been nerfed to a brisk jog, and you have tanky peeps with big e-peens getting their ego rubbed everytime they massacre someone with a single dawnbreaker.

Great gameplay.

VaranisArano

Kova wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You lost me at “Leaping over walls to cheap others is a valid tactic”.

This is coming from a Stam DK main.

See, that's what the OP is getting at though, and I wholly agree. It takes a really special person to defend that the game is balanced PvP wise, and said person usually can't show the numbers to prove it.

But eso was never suppose to be a balanced, competitive game. Its PvP was marketed as huge AvA fights, hundreds on the screen at once, and being able to creatively fight.

Now it's just tryhards that circle meshes like weasels running the same three builds with slight variations that make them feel "unique."

And if leaping onto walls gets your jimmies rustled, but players literally flying through the air during a gap close doesn't, then I just don't see where the line is.

Seriously, this game use to be so much fun and allowed unbelievable amounts of creativity. Sorcs could curve streak, dk chains and leaps were amazing positioning skills, nightblades could ambush at steep angles.

Now your boots are stuck to the ground, speed has been nerfed to a brisk jog, and you have tanky peeps with big e-peens getting their ego rubbed everytime they massacre someone with a single dawnbreaker.

Great gameplay.

Mmm, lets compare exploit to exploit, okay?

Because DKs leaping in and bypassing the need to siege down keep walls bugs me in exactly the same way that NBs ambushing into keeps via players entering doors bugs me.

Its bypassing a game mechanic thats intended...and yeah, I actually enjoy the siege play in Cyrodiil.

Its not about the realism or lack thereof. In that specific case, its about bypassing one of the core mechanics of how to fight in Cyrodiil.

Tan9oSuccka

Kova wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You lost me at “Leaping over walls to cheap others is a valid tactic”.

This is coming from a Stam DK main.

See, that's what the OP is getting at though, and I wholly agree. It takes a really special person to defend that the game is balanced PvP wise, and said person usually can't show the numbers to prove it.

But eso was never suppose to be a balanced, competitive game. Its PvP was marketed as huge AvA fights, hundreds on the screen at once, and being able to creatively fight.

Now it's just tryhards that circle meshes like weasels running the same three builds with slight variations that make them feel "unique."

And if leaping onto walls gets your jimmies rustled, but players literally flying through the air during a gap close doesn't, then I just don't see where the line is.

Seriously, this game use to be so much fun and allowed unbelievable amounts of creativity. Sorcs could curve streak, dk chains and leaps were amazing positioning skills, nightblades could ambush at steep angles.

Now your boots are stuck to the ground, speed has been nerfed to a brisk jog, and you have tanky peeps with big e-peens getting their ego rubbed everytime they massacre someone with a single dawnbreaker.

Great gameplay.

While it may be fun for those who did it, it wasn’t intended to bypass the siege mechanics.

I never once did it, because I thought it was pretty cheap. Same is true with the ambush and leash glitches.

Raammzzaa

All the talks about leap, etc. aside...

Indeed, I would love to see some buffs, particularly to the original classes, rather than another cycle of nerfs.

Gilvoth

if you get beat in a fight or outskilled it means you can come to the forums and spam threads saying that one specific skill or snipe or nightblade is the reason that the game is completely imbalanced and insult the devs and anyone that plays nightblade and anyone that uses the bow.
that is a horrible reality.
it needs to change.

Sotha_Sil

ESO will only be remembered as a game of the Elder Scrolls franchise. Not for its gameplay, not for its balance.

shaielzafine

Balance for existing classes = Nerf roulette. Then we will keep getting new things like necromancer that have all the buffs and debuffs.

TequilaFire

I also could give a flying donkey whether the game is perfectly balanced or not, it is all about having fun and getting away from the competition of real life once in a while. I find the ones that complain that x is overpowered the most are the ones that just want to dominate on their own builds to bolster their own egos. If you have to win you have lost the battle.

david_m_18b16_ESO

personaly I will remember ESO for its debates about animation cancelation.

Jeremy

TequilaFire wrote: »

I also could give a flying donkey whether the game is perfectly balanced or not, it is all about having fun and getting away from the competition of real life once in a while. I find the ones that complain that x is overpowered the most are the ones that just want to dominate on their own builds to bolster their own egos. If you have to win you have lost the battle.

Agreed.

Fun > balance. No contest.

Tan9oSuccka

Jeremy wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I also could give a flying donkey whether the game is perfectly balanced or not, it is all about having fun and getting away from the competition of real life once in a while. I find the ones that complain that x is overpowered the most are the ones that just want to dominate on their own builds to bolster their own egos. If you have to win you have lost the battle.

Agreed.

Fun > balance. No contest.

You do realize your “fun” is at the expense of someone else?

Granted, absolutely zero people give any thought about others. Balance is a thing and should continue on.

TequilaFire

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I also could give a flying donkey whether the game is perfectly balanced or not, it is all about having fun and getting away from the competition of real life once in a while. I find the ones that complain that x is overpowered the most are the ones that just want to dominate on their own builds to bolster their own egos. If you have to win you have lost the battle.

Agreed.

Fun > balance. No contest.

You do realize your “fun” is at the expense of someone else?

Granted, absolutely zero people give any thought about others. Balance is a thing and should continue on.

Only ruins fun for those who want to ruin fun in the first place.
It is a matter of perspective if balanced so you don't die that same balance causes someone else to die.
If no one dies what is the point?

Pile on nerf threads are nothing about balance in the first place.

Wildberryjack

I do not believe it is possible to truly balance every class in any game, I honestly do not. Each class has unique abilities that will be considered OP against some classes and there isn't a way to "fix" that other than to have one class, one build. I'd rather have a game that is fun to play in whatever way I wish to play it than stress over whether a DK has some advantage over my Sorc or whether my NB has some advantage over someone's Warden. It is what it is, learn to work with what you have and use it to your advantage.

Gretzel

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

I think we should go the opposite route with class changes and start buffing the original 4 classes, remember when DK could leap in the keeps 2nd floor if positioned just right? I never even played DK and i always thought that was a valid reason to get in the keep alternatively. Do you remember when templars had a cc with their jabs or sorcs had their stun with their frag? (cant think of anything for NB, those buggers always were in a good spot) anyway i think instead of nerfing classes we need to make them up to par with wardens and (from the looks of it) necro. And most importantly listen to what we want in our game, yes the consumers who spend hundreds of dollars and hours in the game. You may have your own vision of the game and its future which as devs you have every right too but please dont make the same mistakes the old combat team made - making changes for changes sake and ignoring what we want in the game. Right now you guys are doing a good job and from what content creators are saying you guys are making good changes like the snipe nerf & changes to spin to win. In the end, i think we would much rather see more fun and unique class buffs then nerfs.

Balanced pvp IS fun gameplay. Unbalanced *** is not.

Jeremy

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I also could give a flying donkey whether the game is perfectly balanced or not, it is all about having fun and getting away from the competition of real life once in a while. I find the ones that complain that x is overpowered the most are the ones that just want to dominate on their own builds to bolster their own egos. If you have to win you have lost the battle.

Agreed.

Fun > balance. No contest.

You do realize your “fun” is at the expense of someone else?

Granted, absolutely zero people give any thought about others. Balance is a thing and should continue on.

No, I do not realize that.

Why is my "fun" at the expense of someone else? And when did I say or even suggest I gave no thought about others? I want everyone to have fun. Not just me.

Jeremy

Gretzel wrote: »

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

I think we should go the opposite route with class changes and start buffing the original 4 classes, remember when DK could leap in the keeps 2nd floor if positioned just right? I never even played DK and i always thought that was a valid reason to get in the keep alternatively. Do you remember when templars had a cc with their jabs or sorcs had their stun with their frag? (cant think of anything for NB, those buggers always were in a good spot) anyway i think instead of nerfing classes we need to make them up to par with wardens and (from the looks of it) necro. And most importantly listen to what we want in our game, yes the consumers who spend hundreds of dollars and hours in the game. You may have your own vision of the game and its future which as devs you have every right too but please dont make the same mistakes the old combat team made - making changes for changes sake and ignoring what we want in the game. Right now you guys are doing a good job and from what content creators are saying you guys are making good changes like the snipe nerf & changes to spin to win. In the end, i think we would much rather see more fun and unique class buffs then nerfs.

Balanced pvp IS fun gameplay. Unbalanced *** is not.

No it isn't.

The only way you can truly have "balanced" game play is to give everyone the same class and same moves. And that sounds about as boring as it gets. It's a complete myth that "balance" makes a game fun. In fact - it does the opposite and homogenizes the game play and makes distinctions between players and classes dull and inconsequential.

Tan9oSuccka

Jeremy wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I also could give a flying donkey whether the game is perfectly balanced or not, it is all about having fun and getting away from the competition of real life once in a while. I find the ones that complain that x is overpowered the most are the ones that just want to dominate on their own builds to bolster their own egos. If you have to win you have lost the battle.

Agreed.

Fun > balance. No contest.

You do realize your “fun” is at the expense of someone else?

Granted, absolutely zero people give any thought about others. Balance is a thing and should continue on.

No, I do not realize that.

Why is my "fun" at the expense of someone else? And when did I say or even suggest I gave no thought about others? I want everyone to have fun. Not just me.

Here’s an example.

Back when Viper/Veli among other broken sets were everywhere.

You could literally kill people in one ambush.

One attack.

While I’m sure that’s fun for the person using that setup, it’s at the expense of someone else.

KhajiitFelix

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I also could give a flying donkey whether the game is perfectly balanced or not, it is all about having fun and getting away from the competition of real life once in a while. I find the ones that complain that x is overpowered the most are the ones that just want to dominate on their own builds to bolster their own egos. If you have to win you have lost the battle.

Agreed.

Fun > balance. No contest.

You do realize your “fun” is at the expense of someone else?

Granted, absolutely zero people give any thought about others. Balance is a thing and should continue on.

No, I do not realize that.

Why is my "fun" at the expense of someone else? And when did I say or even suggest I gave no thought about others? I want everyone to have fun. Not just me.

Here’s an example.

Back when Viper/Veli among other broken sets were everywhere.

You could literally kill people in one ambush.

One attack.

While I’m sure that’s fun for the person using that setup, it’s at the expense of someone else.

People are selfish and always were.

And....

You can't change that lol.