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Zos, any chance of more team utility for medium sets ?
MotokoHutt
✭✭✭✭
So recently I have been trying to think of ways to add more group utility to my medium armor tank character and I have to say its bloomin frustrating that there is such few choices.
If we don't count crafted sets for a second there is literally only 4 sets in medium armor (from my knowledge) that have some form of true group utility, being Sunderflame, Powerful Assault, Hercine's and Alkosh. Other then those sets the rest of the medium armor sets are very selfish in nature, compared to heavy and light armor which have tons of sets that heal alies, buff alies, debuff enemies for alies, give shields for the party etc. It is such a shame imo as it restrains the player base to this meta of light armor support chars and heavy armor tanks which some might not mind but I think is a little silly.
I get it ok, most stam players are damage dealers, however you find that 9/10 damage dealers only use a select 4-5 sets anyway leaving the rest of the medium armor sets relegated to the no friend zone cus there effects are ether too niche or just not usefull in group content. PvP I have to admit has a little more diversity in the sets you see stam players use from my expierience however there are so many medium armor sets nobody would touch with a 10 food barge pole because unless your playing the game in some super weird way I don't see how they would be usefull.
Let's look at 2 sets right now that explain my point to some degree. Sithis' Touch set: When you use Blade of Woe, you gain Major Berserk for 20 seconds, increasing your damage done by 25%. Zos..... How are you suppose to use this? If you are going around assassinating people with the blade of woe its a 1 shot so why would you need Major Berserk? and if your in the middle of a boss fight in a trial or dungeon where major berserk might be useful you cant assasinate anyone with the blade of woe *facepalm*. How about instead, make it so if you kill an enemy from stealth or sneak you give Major Berserk to yourself and nearby allies instead? might be interesting way for Nightblades to pick up some group support? Or make the utilization of invisability pots interesting in the middle of combat by quickly nuking a bosses add.
Next set. Essence thief set: When you deal damage with a Light Attack, you have a 15% chance to draw essence from an enemy. Collecting the essence heals you 4300 Health, restores 4300 Stamina and increases your damage by 12% for 10 seconds. Now granted this set has more meret then Sithis' Touch BUT the proc randomly fires the essence out in any which direction and always 5-10m away from the taregt. SO in conclusion it's far too cumbersome for a melee stam damage dealer to use effectivly without moving away from there target and running around like a chiken with its head cut off. Now instead try changeing 2 things, make it able to proc on Melee damage and make it so team mates can pick up the essence thief proc's. suddenly then it might not be so bad for a tank to take as the team mates situated AROUND the tank will be able to easily snag the essence to get resources back and gain a nice damage boost for 10 seconds. Suddenly you have yourself a interesting stam tank pooping out heals and resources for there team as they happily stab the boss's knee's to oblivion.
Anyway I think I have made my point and I wont ramble on any longer. So TLDR: Make more group utility for medium armor sets please. Cheers
Thanks for reading, have a lovely day everyone. x
If we don't count crafted sets for a second there is literally only 4 sets in medium armor (from my knowledge) that have some form of true group utility, being Sunderflame, Powerful Assault, Hercine's and Alkosh. Other then those sets the rest of the medium armor sets are very selfish in nature, compared to heavy and light armor which have tons of sets that heal alies, buff alies, debuff enemies for alies, give shields for the party etc. It is such a shame imo as it restrains the player base to this meta of light armor support chars and heavy armor tanks which some might not mind but I think is a little silly.
I get it ok, most stam players are damage dealers, however you find that 9/10 damage dealers only use a select 4-5 sets anyway leaving the rest of the medium armor sets relegated to the no friend zone cus there effects are ether too niche or just not usefull in group content. PvP I have to admit has a little more diversity in the sets you see stam players use from my expierience however there are so many medium armor sets nobody would touch with a 10 food barge pole because unless your playing the game in some super weird way I don't see how they would be usefull.
Let's look at 2 sets right now that explain my point to some degree. Sithis' Touch set: When you use Blade of Woe, you gain Major Berserk for 20 seconds, increasing your damage done by 25%. Zos..... How are you suppose to use this? If you are going around assassinating people with the blade of woe its a 1 shot so why would you need Major Berserk? and if your in the middle of a boss fight in a trial or dungeon where major berserk might be useful you cant assasinate anyone with the blade of woe *facepalm*. How about instead, make it so if you kill an enemy from stealth or sneak you give Major Berserk to yourself and nearby allies instead? might be interesting way for Nightblades to pick up some group support? Or make the utilization of invisability pots interesting in the middle of combat by quickly nuking a bosses add.
Next set. Essence thief set: When you deal damage with a Light Attack, you have a 15% chance to draw essence from an enemy. Collecting the essence heals you 4300 Health, restores 4300 Stamina and increases your damage by 12% for 10 seconds. Now granted this set has more meret then Sithis' Touch BUT the proc randomly fires the essence out in any which direction and always 5-10m away from the taregt. SO in conclusion it's far too cumbersome for a melee stam damage dealer to use effectivly without moving away from there target and running around like a chiken with its head cut off. Now instead try changeing 2 things, make it able to proc on Melee damage and make it so team mates can pick up the essence thief proc's. suddenly then it might not be so bad for a tank to take as the team mates situated AROUND the tank will be able to easily snag the essence to get resources back and gain a nice damage boost for 10 seconds. Suddenly you have yourself a interesting stam tank pooping out heals and resources for there team as they happily stab the boss's knee's to oblivion.
Anyway I think I have made my point and I wont ramble on any longer. So TLDR: Make more group utility for medium armor sets please. Cheers
Thanks for reading, have a lovely day everyone. x
PC EU
4
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Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭More dps is a type of group utility. Also you forgot war machine.Edited by Oakmontowls_ESO on March 17, 2019 5:11PM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do not forget Torug pact. It comes on whatever weight you want it in.
Of the sets worn today for normal tank builds only Ebon seems that it was designed with tanking in mind. For the most part sets like Alkosh were clearly design fro dps. It’s the community that decided it worked wel for a tanking set.
The same think applies to the sets toy mention. They seem to have been designed with dps roles in mine but in the end we determine what we think works well.
In the end I would not expect Zos to start designing sets like these for tanking. If they did the end result would probably be sub par as Zos is not the expert at playing their own game.1 -
MotokoHutt✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »More dps is a type of group utility. Also you forgot war machine.
I do and don't agree, good dps helps clear sure, but its not the type of group support I was talking about. If a tank could survive everything a boss has, extra damage only speeds things up, it doesnt actually "help" the tank, its a selfish ability that simply completes the content faster. Whether your team does or does not view a faster clear time as "help" depends on how much the team cares or doesnt care about time. Also forgot that one, thanks for the point out.Do not forget Torug pact. It comes on whatever weight you want it in.
Of the sets worn today for normal tank builds only Ebon seems that it was designed with tanking in mind. For the most part sets like Alkosh were clearly design fro dps. It’s the community that decided it worked wel for a tanking set.
The same think applies to the sets toy mention. They seem to have been designed with dps roles in mine but in the end we determine what we think works well.
In the end I would not expect Zos to start designing sets like these for tanking. If they did the end result would probably be sub par as Zos is not the expert at playing their own game.
I am not asking though for medium armor sets to be designed for tanking, I am asking for medium sets to have more group utility used by a tank, healer or damage dealer alike.Edited by MotokoHutt on March 17, 2019 5:25PMPC EU0 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would argue that medium armor has the same amount of utility sets that don't require healing.0 -
MotokoHutt✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »I would argue that medium armor has the same amount of utility sets that don't require healing.
you can argue but that doesnt make you right lol. You could argue your farts smell like gumdrops and caramel but you would be wrong XD haha
I don't mean that to be a troll btw, just evidence to back your claim would be nice, debate me.Edited by MotokoHutt on March 17, 2019 5:35PMPC EU0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do not forget Torug pact. It comes on whatever weight you want it in.
Of the sets worn today for normal tank builds only Ebon seems that it was designed with tanking in mind. For the most part sets like Alkosh were clearly design fro dps. It’s the community that decided it worked wel for a tanking set.
The same think applies to the sets toy mention. They seem to have been designed with dps roles in mine but in the end we determine what we think works well.
In the end I would not expect Zos to start designing sets like these for tanking. If they did the end result would probably be sub par as Zos is not the expert at playing their own game.
Alkosh wasn't even a community decision. @Woeler decided to run it on a tank. You'd have to ask him to be sure, but I suspect it was partially as an effort to amuse himself. (As the tank, you do have a lot of latitude on what you can do with sets.) Then the community saw that and said, "WAIT, THAT MUST BE TEH BESTIST!" and the rest was history. Though, I'd love to hear his thoughts on that.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MotokoHutt wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »More dps is a type of group utility. Also you forgot war machine.
I do and don't agree, good dps helps clear sure, but its not the type of group support I was talking about. If a tank could survive everything a boss has, extra damage only speeds things up, it doesnt actually "help" the tank, its a selfish ability that simply completes the content faster. Whether your team does or does not view a faster clear time as "help" depends on how much the team cares or doesnt care about time. Also forgot that one, thanks for the point out.Do not forget Torug pact. It comes on whatever weight you want it in.
Of the sets worn today for normal tank builds only Ebon seems that it was designed with tanking in mind. For the most part sets like Alkosh were clearly design fro dps. It’s the community that decided it worked wel for a tanking set.
The same think applies to the sets toy mention. They seem to have been designed with dps roles in mine but in the end we determine what we think works well.
In the end I would not expect Zos to start designing sets like these for tanking. If they did the end result would probably be sub par as Zos is not the expert at playing their own game.
I am not asking though for medium armor sets to be designed for tanking, I am asking for medium sets to have more group utility used by a tank, healer or damage dealer alike.
Something like Hunt Leader spilling over onto nearby party members? I mean, that could be neat.2 -
MotokoHutt✭✭✭✭
Thats an interesting idea, the set imo is too niche in its current form so this would give it more utility. @starkerealmEdited by MotokoHutt on March 17, 2019 5:45PMPC EU0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don’t forget Morag Tong. That used to be my favorite set on stam warden, although that was back when stam dk’s were common so others got more benefit from it.
I do miss the old Night Mother’s, providing a smaller armor debuff for the entire group.0 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MotokoHutt wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »I would argue that medium armor has the same amount of utility sets that don't require healing.
you can argue but that doesnt make you right lol. You could argue your farts smell like gumdrops and caramel but you would be wrong XD haha
I don't mean that to be a troll btw, just evidence to back your claim would be nice, debate me.
Sets that heal :
Almalexia
Dragur's rest
Lamia
Twilight remedy
Utility
Healing mage/mending
Infallible mage
Inventor's guard
Jourvalds?
Master architect
Meritorious service
Sanctuary
Trinimac?
Olorime
Worm
Of these all but master architect, infallible mage, and lamia are clearly meant for healers or have unrealistic proc conditions for a dps to use.Edited by Oakmontowls_ESO on March 17, 2019 5:52PM0 -
MotokoHutt✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Don’t forget Morag Tong. That used to be my favorite set on stam warden, although that was back when stam dk’s were common so others got more benefit from it.
I do miss the old Night Mother’s, providing a smaller armor debuff for the entire group.
Too niche imo, if you have a 4 man group most likely only 1 person is going to benefit from it and even then the optimise its usefullness you need to be a damage dealer stam DK with a bow on the back or front bar. Don't get me wrong its a good set I think combining it with the master bow can be pretty beefy but once again, its not really a set with aplicable group utility.PC EU0 -
MotokoHutt✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »I would argue that medium armor has the same amount of utility sets that don't require healing.
you can argue but that doesnt make you right lol. You could argue your farts smell like gumdrops and caramel but you would be wrong XD haha
I don't mean that to be a troll btw, just evidence to back your claim would be nice, debate me.
Sets that heal :
Almalexia
Dragur's rest
Lamia
Twilight remedy
Utility
Healing mage/mending
Infallible mage
Inventor's guard
Jourvalds?
Master architect
Meritorious service
Sanctuary
Trinimac?
Olorime
Worm
Of these all but master architect, infallible mage, and lamia are clearly meant for healers or have unrealistic proc conditions for a dps to use.
lol most of all those sets are not medium armor dude, read the OP please.PC EU1 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Do not forget Torug pact. It comes on whatever weight you want it in.
Of the sets worn today for normal tank builds only Ebon seems that it was designed with tanking in mind. For the most part sets like Alkosh were clearly design fro dps. It’s the community that decided it worked wel for a tanking set.
The same think applies to the sets toy mention. They seem to have been designed with dps roles in mine but in the end we determine what we think works well.
In the end I would not expect Zos to start designing sets like these for tanking. If they did the end result would probably be sub par as Zos is not the expert at playing their own game.
Alkosh wasn't even a community decision. @Woeler decided to run it on a tank. You'd have to ask him to be sure, but I suspect it was partially as an effort to amuse himself. (As the tank, you do have a lot of latitude on what you can do with sets.) Then the community saw that and said, "WAIT, THAT MUST BE TEH BESTIST!" and the rest was history. Though, I'd love to hear his thoughts on that.
Dude, this is the second time I have to tell you this. This is not true. This set is the biggest group damage buff set in the game. That is why I chose to use. Not because I was trying to be funny.Edited by Woeler on March 17, 2019 6:43PM7 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭🙈 tank wanted more utility in medium amour sets instead of heavy..... what next more utilitiy with staves?
Okay being helpful sunderflame is option in medium. Maphala hand not medium but option for utilitiy. There's also that self synergize set though heavy but it could help you use alkoash set.Edited by Tasear on March 17, 2019 8:16PM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Do not forget Torug pact. It comes on whatever weight you want it in.
Of the sets worn today for normal tank builds only Ebon seems that it was designed with tanking in mind. For the most part sets like Alkosh were clearly design fro dps. It’s the community that decided it worked wel for a tanking set.
The same think applies to the sets toy mention. They seem to have been designed with dps roles in mine but in the end we determine what we think works well.
In the end I would not expect Zos to start designing sets like these for tanking. If they did the end result would probably be sub par as Zos is not the expert at playing their own game.
Alkosh wasn't even a community decision. @Woeler decided to run it on a tank. You'd have to ask him to be sure, but I suspect it was partially as an effort to amuse himself. (As the tank, you do have a lot of latitude on what you can do with sets.) Then the community saw that and said, "WAIT, THAT MUST BE TEH BESTIST!" and the rest was history. Though, I'd love to hear his thoughts on that.
Dude, this is the second time I have to tell you this. This is not true. This set is the biggest group damage buff set in the game. That is why I chose to use. Not because I was trying to be funny.
I'm sorry. I missed that the first time, somehow. Also, I didn't think you were trying to be funny. If I gave you the impression that I thought it was some kind of joke, that was not my intention.
EDIT: In fairness, I've gotten really tired of the idiots who blindly blather off that, "Alkosh is best for all tanks," without any thought to the content they're doing, group composition, or even their ability to use the set. I know that's not your fault, and I don't blame you, but is tiring. Especially when I'm having to talk a guild member down off from believing they can't tank because they don't have full gold Alkosh.
It is a cool set, but the lengths I've seen. Ugh.
Anyway, again, I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I thought you were trying to mess with people. I've got a really sour taste in my mouth from how some people hold the set up. Especially when they're not getting value from it.Edited by starkerealm on March 17, 2019 10:19PM0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Do not forget Torug pact. It comes on whatever weight you want it in.
Of the sets worn today for normal tank builds only Ebon seems that it was designed with tanking in mind. For the most part sets like Alkosh were clearly design fro dps. It’s the community that decided it worked wel for a tanking set.
The same think applies to the sets toy mention. They seem to have been designed with dps roles in mine but in the end we determine what we think works well.
In the end I would not expect Zos to start designing sets like these for tanking. If they did the end result would probably be sub par as Zos is not the expert at playing their own game.
Alkosh wasn't even a community decision. @Woeler decided to run it on a tank. You'd have to ask him to be sure, but I suspect it was partially as an effort to amuse himself. (As the tank, you do have a lot of latitude on what you can do with sets.) Then the community saw that and said, "WAIT, THAT MUST BE TEH BESTIST!" and the rest was history. Though, I'd love to hear his thoughts on that.
Dude, this is the second time I have to tell you this. This is not true. This set is the biggest group damage buff set in the game. That is why I chose to use. Not because I was trying to be funny.
I'm sorry. I missed that the first time, somehow. Also, I didn't think you were trying to be funny. If I gave you the impression that I thought it was some kind of joke, that was not my intention.
EDIT: In fairness, I've gotten really tired of the idiots who blindly blather off that, "Alkosh is best for all tanks," without any thought to the content they're doing, group composition, or even their ability to use the set. I know that's not your fault, and I don't blame you, but is tiring. Especially when I'm having to talk a guild member down off from believing they can't tank because they don't have full gold Alkosh.
It is a cool set, but the lengths I've seen. Ugh.
Anyway, again, I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I thought you were trying to mess with people. I've got a really sour taste in my mouth from how some people hold the set up. Especially when they're not getting value from it.
This reminded me of something that irks me. No one EVER hits my synergies. Like ever. I don't run bone shield for myself, I run it cause I hate rezzing under massive pressure.1 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭Theres alkosh, morag tong, and powerful assault, all medium armor sets, and yea, sometimes we have off tanks slot both medium armor sets
Medium armor is pretty much made for stamina dps, I dont know you would want to tank in medium armor. But I guess go for it0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The new medium set from DoM. Group utility. Gives minor vulnerablity to a GROUP of enemies.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MotokoHutt wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Don’t forget Morag Tong. That used to be my favorite set on stam warden, although that was back when stam dk’s were common so others got more benefit from it.
I do miss the old Night Mother’s, providing a smaller armor debuff for the entire group.
Too niche imo, if you have a 4 man group most likely only 1 person is going to benefit from it and even then the optimise its usefullness you need to be a damage dealer stam DK with a bow on the back or front bar. Don't get me wrong its a good set I think combining it with the master bow can be pretty beefy but once again, its not really a set with aplicable group utility.
Morag Tong is still a great set to run. Especially if you have stamdens in group, since Subterranean Assault does poison damage. And even more so if you have bow/bow stamdens in group, since Lethal Arrow does poison damage.
But even without stamdens, it's still worth running (albeit less so than Alkosh or Powerful Assault), since it buffs poison enchants and alchemical poisons.0 -
russelmmendoza✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, team utility is healer or tank, errr, I mean team utility are for healer and tank. I am calling healer and tanks utensils, no sir.
Just give medium armor more +100% critical chance and +1000% critical damage.
Thats all medium armor needs, not utensils, we already have healer and tank.
I mean we already have healer and tank for utility.
Edited by russelmmendoza on March 18, 2019 3:35AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This reminded me of something that irks me. No one EVER hits my synergies. Like ever. I don't run bone shield for myself, I run it cause I hate rezzing under massive pressure.
Yeah, my significant other is with you on that. I don't see it as much, as I tend to run DPS or tanks, and (anymore) I tend to run in groups that will actually fight with each other over my synergies when they're out there, but unless you know the people you're running with, most players really do not take (or give) synergies reliably.0 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MotokoHutt wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »I would argue that medium armor has the same amount of utility sets that don't require healing.
you can argue but that doesnt make you right lol. You could argue your farts smell like gumdrops and caramel but you would be wrong XD haha
I don't mean that to be a troll btw, just evidence to back your claim would be nice, debate me.
Sets that heal :
Almalexia
Dragur's rest
Lamia
Twilight remedy
Utility
Healing mage/mending
Infallible mage
Inventor's guard
Jourvalds?
Master architect
Meritorious service
Sanctuary
Trinimac?
Olorime
Worm
Of these all but master architect, infallible mage, and lamia are clearly meant for healers or have unrealistic proc conditions for a dps to use.
lol most of all those sets are not medium armor dude, read the OP please.
I was listing utility light armor sets.
Light armor has more healing sets whereas medium armor has more group damage increasing sets0