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Steel Tornado should at least be dodge-able
frostitomik
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I am fine with it being an aoe
I am fine with it being a long range
I am fine with it being an execute
I am fine with it being possible to cast it while running
I am fine with it being able to put you out of stealth
...but oh my god, please make it at least dodge-able.
How is it fair that dodge roll costs more to cast that steel tornado and it doesn't counter it?
When you compare this skill to executioner, the only disadvantage is a slightly higher cost and slightly lower dmg. And not I am not going to use it myself as everyone else does in battlegrounds.
Edited by frostitomik on March 1, 2019 10:29AM I am fine with it being a long range
I am fine with it being an execute
I am fine with it being possible to cast it while running
I am fine with it being able to put you out of stealth
...but oh my god, please make it at least dodge-able.
How is it fair that dodge roll costs more to cast that steel tornado and it doesn't counter it?
When you compare this skill to executioner, the only disadvantage is a slightly higher cost and slightly lower dmg. And not I am not going to use it myself as everyone else does in battlegrounds.
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labambao✭✭✭✭Just make all aoe do 75% less damage and teamplay become more coordinated and requires more skill, not just spamming 3 keys to win3 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How many nerf this nerf that threads from people who's been beaten in PvP can you read per day without getting annoyed?
The answer is clearly nerf cloak.EU PC6 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just take away the scaling execute from the base morph and make steel tornado the larger AOE and whirling blades the scaling execute. Simple.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on March 1, 2019 10:31AM4 -
frostitomik✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Just take away the scaling execute from the base morph and make steel tornado the larger AOE and whirling blades the scaling execute. Simple.
The problem is, it will make them even more useless for pve. Making them dodge-able would not affect pve.0 -
MaleAmazon✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is simply a very effective PvP skill because of its nature. It is an execute, it triggers neat sets like Sheer venom, it has a damage increase starting at 100% hp meaning it is reasonably spammable, and it doubles as a detection skill. When bar space is at a premium, it is great.
Though I must say, 90% of the reason I put it in a PvP bar is stealth detection.
PvE: Efficient mob mincing when levelling. PvP: Detection.
To be honest, I´d rather they fixed (and this is as someone who has played a lot of Nightblades, and mains one ATM) cloaking. It is just exasperating to detect a nightblade with a real detection skill like magelight, only to have them recloak 3 seconds after... one reason I don´t PvP at the moment.
You don´t lose to steel tornado because it is OP, you lose to steel tornado because you lost the fight against a stronger character, and steel tornado is there to make sure you don´t escape your well deserved death recap.
Just make it so that people can´t recloak for longer, or put a cooldown on cloak. I´m not usually for nerfing, but that skill is just yowsa. It is one thing that NBs can initiate combat well from stealth and get out of combat using stealth. It is another that they can keep repeated offensive pressure up with it.
And steel tornado used to be like 12 m range IIRC (EDIT: 12.5 m according to Reddit) XD.Edited by MaleAmazon on March 1, 2019 10:46AM2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭frostitomik wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Just take away the scaling execute from the base morph and make steel tornado the larger AOE and whirling blades the scaling execute. Simple.
The problem is, it will make them even more useless for pve. Making them dodge-able would not affect pve.
What do you mean useless? Steel tornado is the largest AOE spammable in the game. And if you do what I recommend, you end up with a 5 meter AOE spammable execute, kind of like a reverse slice, which is still very useful in pve. You ought have to decide what you want. More damage or more AOE. Having both on one skill doesn't make any sense to me.1 -
Pelican✭✭✭✭✭*This post was made by the medium roller-blade gang*Edited by Pelican on March 1, 2019 10:53AMPC NA - EP Solo PvP Player
https://www.youtube.com/c/pelicaneso6 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There's always a reason why a specific meta emerges. People run bleeds and oblivion damage not only because it's efficient, but because of heavy armor builds. People wear heavy over medium because of the insane damage output of specific builds (and ironically enough: undodgeable stuff). People use undodgeable AoE executes not only because it's easier, but because players tend do dodge into cloak as soon as they feel pressured.
I think it won't happen because Zeni decided to streamline their mechanics a while ago. All Single Target skills, except channels, became dodgeable (thanks god, those pesky birds where worse than in Morrowind), all AoE became undodgeable.
So it's rather a unlikely change. What else could be done? Removing execute would force stam classes without class execute even more so into 2H than Forward Momentum, a gap closer, better enchants and the 2-piece count already do. If you're also on a class without spam, you're bound to Dizzy Swing or Crushing Weapons - what a joy.
Decreasing the radius would gimp it for PvE. So does making it an undodgeable cone.
By all this people shouldn't forget that Reverse Slice already hits harder while being cheaper. So there already is a trade off.
Not to mention the advice the bigger part of the forum spat out when people complained about e.g. Soul Assault and undodgeable Bird Spam from 28m+ away: just block it!
From my PoV, it can be annoying to have a Steel Tornado spammer as opponent. But it's just as annoying as so much else. I'd rather say we wait what Zeni makes from their announcement to look into cloak before we gimp another skill into uselessness, before the nerf train rides on to the next thing on the list. Probably Dawnbreaker or Shalks again. Maybe the incentive to run ST will become smaller by those changes.0 -
frostitomik✭✭✭Yes I agree that cloak is a problem but cloak is at least counter-able by multiple other skills + potions.
If you are a medium armor user, the only way to counter steel tornado is to block, but how can you block it if you don't even see/hear it? Usually, when under 50% health I drop dead in 2 seconds and I have to look at my dead recap what actually killed me. No visual, no sound, no red aoe indication, nothing. Even snipe has a sound and you can dodge it.0 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Just take away the scaling execute from the base morph and make steel tornado the larger AOE and whirling blades the scaling execute. Simple.
This, easy fix very fair, all this and steel tornado still get big buff from the DW passive including an execute.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only1 -
MaleAmazon✭✭✭✭✭
✭cloak is at least counter-able by multiple other skills + potions.
Cloak is not really 'counterable'. Detection pots are expensive and have a long cooldown, plus you forgo other pots. Detection skills are frequently more expensive than cloak itself. Most useful way is usually to throw down an AoE (like steel tornado), but even that isn´t going to help you if the NB rolls away and cloaks at a distance.
Steel tornado doesn´t do that much damage, even at maximum bonus it doesn´t do more damage than cutting dive. You won´t lose to it unless you would have lost to basically everything else.Edited by MaleAmazon on March 1, 2019 11:24AM2 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭frostitomik wrote: »
How exactly does stamblade spam cloak? Never played one, just curious.EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭frostitomik wrote: »
Even cloak spammers are annoyed by other cloak spammers!!11!2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭frostitomik wrote: »
How exactly does stamblade spam cloak? Never played one, just curious.
Run shacklebreaker and tristat glyphs and you're gucci for 4-5 consecutive cloaks without a potion.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How many nerf this nerf that threads from people who's been beaten in PvP can you read per day without getting annoyed?
The answer is clearly nerf cloak.
This actually is exempt from that imo. This was buffed to be undodgeable when ZOS shortsightedly decided to equalize all skills that are “similar.” I’ve said this before but they simply decided all AOE should be undodgeable. But as we know, a stationary ground based AOE like caltrops is not the same as a spammable, moving execute. So it wouldn’t be nerfing as it would be reverting a skill that should never have been buffed in the first place.0 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭frostitomik wrote: »
Stamblade cloak spammers with steel tornado. The few I’ve come across die in seconds0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I find this highly amusing. I don't think OP has outright confirmed they *are* a medium armor stamblade, but any medium armor stamblade complaining about AOEs is just a player who doesn't wish to slot any of the three (two if not dual wield) 25% reduction major evasion skills they have.
And if you're dying with a 25% damage mit to steel tornado, well....2
