I love OP siege ballista!!!

Dragonnord

Seeing those jumping guys going like: "Come get me you noobs! I'm unkillab..." Dead.

Rygonix

Fun fact - if you dodge roll at the right time you can actually dodge the ticks from ballistae and trebs.

russelmmendoza

Hell yeah!!!
Die you freaking zergs!
Die!

Vapirko

Rygonix wrote: »

Fun fact - if you dodge roll at the right time you can actually dodge the ticks from ballistae and trebs.

If I dodge roll at the right time can I dodge more of these threads? Walked right into this one.

Rygonix

Vapirko wrote: »

Rygonix wrote: »

Fun fact - if you dodge roll at the right time you can actually dodge the ticks from ballistae and trebs.

If I dodge roll at the right time can I dodge more of these threads? Walked right into this one.

Actually you can dodge the ticks even after the dot is applied. Give it a try sometime.

MikaHR

We used most advanced tectics past few days: SIEGE EVERYTHING even OPEN FIELD!

And if you are alone....just drop ballista and 1vsballista. You dont have to worry about, build, gear, skills...everything just melts! @elitecyrodiiltactics

Alucardo

Was on my stamplar yesterday, like "I can purge your siege damage now. Come get me suckas!"
Immediately takes a 30k cold fire siege and dies.

IzzyStardust

I feel like no one should be able to withstand siege without siege shield (lol there’s a skill for that!), insta purge/heals - make all those mutaspammers actually do a lil more ;-)

IzzyStardust

Also: if you stand in red and get rekt; well honestly l2p. I never, ever die to siege because standing in stupid is called that for a reason.

It should however be only allowed in proximity to keeps and rss. Although; I thought it was since the open field siege battles of old...?

Alucardo

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Also: if you stand in red and get rekt; well honestly l2p. I never, ever die to siege because standing in stupid is called that for a reason.

While there is some truth to this, trying to dodge snipe spam and 12 sieges being fired at you with 12 fps is no small feat.

Mr_Walker

If you play noCP it's like this all the time. Siege engines (and everything else) hits like a runaway truck.

Take them CP training wheels off and join us.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO SEIGE OR GO CRY !

UntrustedExistenz

At least now slotting Siege Shield skill have some meaning. Love this

MikaHR

Yeah, you need siege shield for 1vs1 now. just AWESOME!

#elitecyrodiiltactics

Checkmath

If those people praising the broken siege damage would only once play in an outnumbered situation, where they get constantly stunned, snared or rooted, where they need to pay attention to some melee enemies, who otherwise kill you and then get hit by someones ballista from 20 meters away...that would be great.

Try to evade that ballista bolt first and then talk again about the sieges.

MikaHR

Dont try to fight it, the sooner you put down your ballista, the sooner you get to one shot everything!

#elitecyrodiiltactics

Checkmath

Also, is it healthy for the game, when I can delete a whole 10 men group ramming a maingate, by pouring oil on them twice earning instant 20k AP or even more plus a 30k deftick 2 minutes afterwards?

IzzyStardust

Alucardo wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Also: if you stand in red and get rekt; well honestly l2p. I never, ever die to siege because standing in stupid is called that for a reason.

While there is some truth to this, trying to dodge snipe spam and 12 sieges being fired at you with 12 fps is no small feat.

Yeah I can agree with that. I mean it's fair enough.

It had just always bothered me that people can stand in damage meant to knock down stone walls and NOT die. You know?

John_Falstaff

Checkmath wrote: »

Also, is it healthy for the game, when I can delete a whole 10 men group ramming a maingate, by pouring oil on them twice earning instant 20k AP or even more plus a 30k deftick 2 minutes afterwards?

Well it's surely realistic at the very least. Intuitively, boiling oil poured on people's heads would very much do that delete thing. Siege is generally known to be a difficult and trying affair.

Checkmath

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Also, is it healthy for the game, when I can delete a whole 10 men group ramming a maingate, by pouring oil on them twice earning instant 20k AP or even more plus a 30k deftick 2 minutes afterwards?

Well it's surely realistic at the very least. Intuitively, boiling oil poured on people's heads would very much do that delete thing. Siege is generally known to be a difficult and trying affair.

But you also know, that it takes a long time to heat up the oil, that it probably needs several people to bring up some bowl of oil on the walls an that the bowl is empty used once? It is a fantasy game in the end, so saying, that something is realistsic does not really apply here, especially since everyone can wield magic and stuff.

PvP in such a fantasy game does not need to be super realistic, it needs to be fair. And oblivion damage sieges are definitely not, if it takes one guy to kill ten or more enemies by simply left clicking.

Chilly-McFreeze

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Also, is it healthy for the game, when I can delete a whole 10 men group ramming a maingate, by pouring oil on them twice earning instant 20k AP or even more plus a 30k deftick 2 minutes afterwards?

Well it's surely realistic at the very least. Intuitively, boiling oil poured on people's heads would very much do that delete thing. Siege is generally known to be a difficult and trying affair.

If you want a realistic game, you're wrong here. People shrugging of Meteors and laughing through stabs in the gut, performed by talking catman, inspired by a sugar cat on the moon - doesn't add up.

Also, what is balance?

John_Falstaff

@Checkmath , @Chilly-McFreeze , then, if all bets are off, we can't say that damage shouldn't be so high, either. Magical instant-heat super-high-damage oil. Sure, balance is a thing, or supposed to be a thing, but I don't know yet how it will affect big picture in Cyrodiil. Maybe people will find ways to mount up more reliable sieges, use siege shields, and keeps will stop bouncing between factions ten times a day. Or maybe it will break things and ZOS will have to tone down the damage (or buff siege shields, or something else). Point is, the fact of boiling oil able to kill ten people under the gate in one fell swoop doesn't seem bad to me on its own, it will all boil down (pun intended) to how it'll affect balance on larger scale. "Oil killed ten of us in an instant" is not unfair. "Oil damage stops any siege from succeeding at all" may be unfair, yes, I'm curious if that will be the case.

Chilly-McFreeze

Adding my points bolded into the quote:

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Checkmath , @Chilly-McFreeze , then, if all bets are off, we can't say that damage shouldn't be so high, either. Magical instant-heat super-high-damage oil. Sure, balance is a thing, or supposed to be a thing, but I don't know yet how it will affect big picture in Cyrodiil.

It isn't "supposed to be A thing", in PvP it's supposed to be THE thing. And you already see how it affects the bigger picture. People siege up as soon as someone turns around the corner. People prefer to use siege (from a safe space) over real combat.

Maybe people will find ways to mount up more reliable sieges, use siege shields, and keeps will stop bouncing between factions ten times a day.

If you're supposed to slot a single skill on almost every build to "counter" (read: don't get 1 shotted) a specific thing, that thing might be a bit overperforming, don't you think?`
Also, why would overperforming siege stuff stop faction hopping? At best it encourages it via nightcapping since it becomes far easier to defend a night capped map in the early morning than to take them during prime time.

Or maybe it will break things and ZOS will have to tone down the damage (or buff siege shields, or something else).

Again, forcing everyone to use a single specific skill to not get isntarekt isn't good game design.

Point is, the fact of boiling oil able to kill ten people under the gate in one fell swoop doesn't seem bad to me on its own, it will all boil down (pun intended) to how it'll affect balance on larger scale. "Oil killed ten of us in an instant" is not unfair. "Oil damage stops any siege from succeeding at all" may be unfair, yes, I'm curious if that will be the case.

In fact, it is. It requires no skill, makes rams obosolete and gives far to much AP for pressing a single button. I figure you might come from Vivec or Shor and embrace this as a welcomed change from the "usual facetanking 10 oils at ram" - at least that's what I get from the forums. However, not everyone choses to run with artificially inflated stats, no CP is a thing and there, nobody stands in oil anyway. However, this increase is just too much and it promotes mindless sieging over actually engaging combat.

However, IF they brought in far larger changes and it would require actual sacrifice to be effective at sieging (like in "changing your build for it") then People might have a different stance on it. But as it is now, it's a simple, overpowered play thing that will reach is half-life period as soon as those who welcome it find themselves on the other side of the ballista.

JumpmanLane

MikaHR wrote: »

Dont try to fight it, the sooner you put down your ballista, the sooner you get to one shot everything!

#elitecyrodiiltactics

I’m running Julianos Sun 1 Kena 1 Balorgh, I don’t NEED siege to 1 shot most fools. I just need ele Drain and structured Entropy on em lol.

ATomiX96

Sitting on the walls for 2 hours trying to siege someone unsuccesfully must be some hella hype gameplay.
Glad zos is catering to this kind of people (again).
Why bother PvPing face to face when you can exploit siege and sit on walls spamming siege and snipe.
Why bother trying to actually get good at the game when you could just sit on the walls killing people effortlessly.
But I kinda understand where this scrub mentality comes from, must be really frustrating getting 1vXed on a daily basis by good players which put time into the game.

InvitationNotFound

"i can finally kill someone hurr durr" at least that's what I'm reading when someone tries to justify high siege damage...

Haven't seen a single good argument for it yet. It doesn't require any skill. Just aim, click, done. Best in combination with your own faction stack to be even in a safer spot. But hey, just don't stay in red circles stupid (that's what i do when staying on my wall and sieging others, see, it's easy!!!1!1!!).

And spare us the "realistic" argument. It isn't a real argument, just a cheap try.
Nothing in this game is realistic. Haven't seen anyone casting magic and stuff on others. Haven't seen a 2h Sword not causing any harm when hitting people. Want to make it realistic? Then probably everything should instantly kill you, right? Sounds fun and awesome, doesn't it? Not thought this half way through, right?

John_Falstaff

@Chilly-McFreeze , it's likely that you're right; who am I to judge. I'm just speaking how it intuitively feels.

About specific points - yes, I suppose faction-hopping is also an issue, but I'm not sure whether it should be hard-bound to how easy (or hard) it is to flip the tide of the war in Cyrodiil. Maybe, for that problem, solution should be sought elsewhere (like anyone else, I don't like restrictions, but maybe it would make sense to introduce some large cooldowns on hopping between factions.) It feels weird, to be giving people easy fights just so they'd stop hopping between characters to join the winning faction; not the sort of balance I had in mind.

As for slotting the skill - well it is called a siege shield for a reason. It somehow appeals to me that sieges have their own toolkit. It again appeals to my sense of realism (yes, it's a fantasy game, but every fantasy is rooted in realistic picture of the world) where defenders have their tools, and the besieging army also equips shields and whatnot. Maybe it requires some tweaks, but I again feel that "I shouldn't need a siege shield to survive a projectile from trebuchet" is a stretch. But again, it's debatable - up to everyone to decide whether they want more realistically inclined sieges, or whether the actual siege part should be more of a token thing.

Again, hard for me to say. There are probably more than one issue with that change. I can sure see issue with faction-hopping, and maybe the fluctuations in rush hours will play a big role (as in, the mastery of siege-driven war will mostly consist on suddenly hopping in with a whole guild's zerg crowd at unusual hours when all opposing defenders are at work or sleeping), also not a good thing.

Chilly-McFreeze

John_Falstaff wrote: »

As for slotting the skill - well it is called a siege shield for a reason. It somehow appeals to me that sieges have their own toolkit. It again appeals to my sense of realism (yes, it's a fantasy game, but every fantasy is rooted in realistic picture of the world) where defenders have their tools, and the besieging army also equips shields and whatnot. Maybe it requires some tweaks, but I again feel that "I shouldn't need a siege shield to survive a projectile from trebuchet" is a stretch. But again, it's debatable - up to everyone to decide whether they want more realistically inclined sieges, or whether the actual siege part should be more of a token thing.

Maybe I didn't articulate that part well enough. I'm all for having "incentives" to slot siege shield when you go front door/line sieging. No issue with that. But at the current implementation of siege damage it sounds more like "slot a siege shild in general, no matter what you plan to do" and that puts an unnecessary burden on soloer/ small scalers again.

John_Falstaff

@Chilly-McFreeze , do siege weapons run rampant in open field too now in Cyrodiil, not just on keep walls? I haven't been there a lot last week; if deploying a siege weapon and start shooting people on plain ground have become a thing, then it's definitely something that needs to be looked at.

For sieges specifically, I'd feel fine if I had to slot the shield right before siege itself (now, that would also take fixing in-combat bug, but that's already another matter...).

HankTwo

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze , do siege weapons run rampant in open field too now in Cyrodiil, not just on keep walls? I haven't been there a lot last week; if deploying a siege weapon and start shooting people on plain ground have become a thing, then it's definitely something that needs to be looked at.

For sieges specifically, I'd feel fine if I had to slot the shield right before siege itself (now, that would also take fixing in-combat bug, but that's already another matter...).

Yes, yesterday I had some small to medium scale fights (4-6 people per group) both inside outposts and on open fields, and every single time people from both sides (later me included) were placing sieges just because they are so freaking op atm.

Furthermore, you can forget sieging a keep with a small group. We placed a ram and 5 ballistae around the mg, used siege shield, and had at least one person using purge. Still, when they started to oil and used a coldfire ballista (just 2 or 3 people defending) we had to abandon the ram because the damage was unbearable.

Nermy

The OP siege means some PvPers can actually kill someone now...