What is each race really good at now?

bellatrixed

First: If a thread like this already exists please point me in the right direction! I searched but could only find people upset with the changes. I couldn't find any guides to making the best of the current racial passives.

In particular I would like to know if redguards are viable as templar tanks (I'm guessing not?)
I'm not really into min/maxing enough to understand the numbers.
I would like a redguard though--what are the best possible class/specs for them now, as well as the other races?

MartiniDaniels

They are all good in PVP one way or another, that was purpose of this race changes.

zaria

Redguards would be excellent tanks with their proc based stamina regen.
However I would used an DK for tanking.

Overall differences between races is down and its more bis level options.

Vermethys

I tried an Argonian Templar tank way back when -- Before Wolfhunter, when they had the worst stamina sustain. Templar is not really the "best" for tanking because they have bad self-healing (imo) and no root/immobilisation ability. But, I think Redguards can make decent Templar tanks because Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash, Shield Wall, and Ice Blockade would be 8% cheaper and your stamina sustain would be nice if you light-attack weave (making the best out of Adrenaline Rush). Since you'll probably be using Silver Leash, the extra stam sustain would be helpful.

On a note separate from tanking, I think Redguards would make great StamDK and StamSorc PvE DDs. They'd be good for PvP on any class other than NB.

Olupajmibanan

vermillion2077 wrote: »

I tried an Argonian Templar tank way back when -- Before Wolfhunter, when they had the worst stamina sustain. Templar is not really the "best" for tanking because they have bad self-healing (imo) and no root/immobilisation ability. But, I think Redguards can make decent Templar tanks because Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash, Shield Wall, and Ice Blockade would be 8% cheaper and your stamina sustain would be nice if you light-attack weave (making the best out of Adrenaline Rush). Since you'll probably be using Silver Leash, the extra stam sustain would be helpful.

On a note separate from tanking, I think Redguards would make great StamDK and StamSorc PvE DDs. They'd be good for PvP on any class other than NB.

Adrenaline Rush has been changed. It now procs of any direct damage. This includes Pierce Armor, Heroic Slash, Volatile Armor returned Damage, Riposte CP passive and more. You may goo full permablock without any LAs and still proc it on cooldown.

macsmooth

I wouldn’t mind knowing where the Argonian sits now what’s the best role and class for them is now

I have a Argonian DK tank but was debating in turning my Templar Healer into Argonian but she a high elf which is getting a buff to her damage with these changes so I don’t see that as a good change

I like having one of every race and class type, I just wanted to try them all

So I don’t actually know what the Argonian is better at now is it still tanking but as a templar warden sorc or nb or is it healing as something like a templar/nb healer/tank with the boost to healing done

Ps I’m console player so I don’t get to test just commit to a change if needed

barney2525

were-penguins still are the best at eating fish

JobooAGS

vermillion2077 wrote: »

I tried an Argonian Templar tank way back when -- Before Wolfhunter, when they had the worst stamina sustain. Templar is not really the "best" for tanking because they have bad self-healing (imo) and no root/immobilisation ability. But, I think Redguards can make decent Templar tanks because Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash, Shield Wall, and Ice Blockade would be 8% cheaper and your stamina sustain would be nice if you light-attack weave (making the best out of Adrenaline Rush). Since you'll probably be using Silver Leash, the extra stam sustain would be helpful.

On a note separate from tanking, I think Redguards would make great StamDK and StamSorc PvE DDs. They'd be good for PvP on any class other than NB.

Even on nb in pvp, if you use spin2win, rending, and poison injection and draining shot/rally, (yes draining is fixed you can use it without feeling dirty) I can get spin2win to cost 2.3k stam with 5 medium on a redguard (base cost is 3780) and rending about 1.2k

Uryel

Bosmers are amazing at being guards, now.

With their super eyesight, they will notice any criminal scum trying to break the law under their watch, and with their great ability to roll on the floor to gain speed, they will stop them right there !

Thevampirenight

Uryel wrote: »

Bosmers are amazing at being guards, now.

With their super eyesight, they will notice any criminal scum trying to break the law under their watch, and with their great ability to roll on the floor to gain speed, they will stop them right there !

All the while taking the stolen goods from the criminal after arresting them and then turning them over to the fence as profit afterwords and then saying They fall for it every time!

Sorry just had to say it.

HatchetHaro

macsmooth wrote: »

I wouldn’t mind knowing where the Argonian sits now what’s the best role and class for them is now

I have a Argonian DK tank but was debating in turning my Templar Healer into Argonian but she a high elf which is getting a buff to her damage with these changes so I don’t see that as a good change

I like having one of every race and class type, I just wanted to try them all

So I don’t actually know what the Argonian is better at now is it still tanking but as a templar warden sorc or nb or is it healing as something like a templar/nb healer/tank with the boost to healing done

Ps I’m console player so I don’t get to test just commit to a change if needed

The only thing Argonians are good at is PvP due to decent tri-stat resource sustain and immunity to the Diseased status effect.

Healing and Tanking they are decent at, but in those roles they are ultimately vastly outshined by Nords, Imperials, and Bretons from their vastly superior group utility, and even the other races can match Argonians in terms of effectiveness given enough skill.

They're no good at DPS.

zaria

Uryel wrote: »

Bosmers are amazing at being guards, now.

With their super eyesight, they will notice any criminal scum trying to break the law under their watch, and with their great ability to roll on the floor to gain speed, they will stop them right there !

The weirdest part is that Bosmer is set up to be natural counter to Khajiit who is obvious gankers with their +crit damage and increased sneak. However they are in the same alliance

Thevampirenight

zaria wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Bosmers are amazing at being guards, now.

With their super eyesight, they will notice any criminal scum trying to break the law under their watch, and with their great ability to roll on the floor to gain speed, they will stop them right there !

The weirdest part is that Bosmer is set up to be natural counter to Khajiit who is obvious gankers with their +crit damage and increased sneak. However they are in the same alliance

Those roles should be flipped. Khajiit the Counters to the Ganker Race, Bosmer. The ones who will catch sneak thieving Bosmers in the act. Bosmer have lots of places to hide in the forest, Khajiit are more exposed in the desert. Now tell me does this make sense to you that Khajiit can be better sneak thieves then Bosmer who sneak thief all the time?

Vajrak

bellatrixed wrote: »

First: If a thread like this already exists please point me in the right direction! I searched but could only find people upset with the changes. I couldn't find any guides to making the best of the current racial passives.

In particular I would like to know if redguards are viable as templar tanks (I'm guessing not?)
I'm not really into min/maxing enough to understand the numbers.
I would like a redguard though--what are the best possible class/specs for them now, as well as the other races?

That's a very considerably in-depth question, and the honest answer for it is that, if you aren't min-maxing to get every last 0.0X% possible increase (at the cost of other capabilities, because everyone forgets the "min" part of "min/max")---anything you want to do with it.

I currently have a Redguard Templar/Tankplar that is my main crafter and mostly spec'd lately for goofing off in PvP, being as disruptive as possible. Courtesy of Redguard passives and Constitution from Heavy Armor, I run a full mag recovery/cost reduction build and tri-stat food, and running out of stam hasn't been an issue, in PvP nor PvE. So yes, a Redguard Templar Tank is entirely viable, as is a Breton or a Nord. That's kind of the beautiful thing about the game---pick the race you want, use the racial passives to your advantage, and by mix of gear, enchants, and (currently) CP Distribution, you can plug the gap or emphasize to strengths.

ookami007

Redguards are now the ultimate Stam sustain race.

Kulvar

For PvE
Stamina Damage : Orc, Dunmer
Stamina Hybrid : Khajiit
Stamina Sustain : Redguard, Bosmer
Magicka Damage : Altmer, Dunmer
Magicka Hybrid : Khajiit
Magicka Sustain : Breton, Argonian
Healing Amount : Altmer, Dunmer
Healing Hybrid : Argonian, Khajiit
Healing Sustain : Breton
Tanking : Imperial, Redguard, Nord, Argonian, Khajiit

Gythral

They are all still great at getting killed ...

MartiniDaniels

ookami007 wrote: »

Redguards are now the ultimate Stam sustain race.

They WERE ultimate sustain race. Now they are slightly better at sustain then bosmer at dummy and slightly weaker then bosmer in case of real time mechanics where you can't keep 100% proc of adrenaline rush. And both races are much weaker then orc as stamdps, so era of BiS redguards has ended, we are now good mostly for PVP. I personally plan to switch my redguard warden to tanking..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

JobooAGS

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

Redguards are now the ultimate Stam sustain race.

They WERE ultimate sustain race. Now they are slightly better at sustain then bosmer at dummy and slightly weaker then bosmer in case of real time mechanics where you can't keep 100% proc of adrenaline rush. And both races are much weaker then orc as stamdps, so era of BiS redguards has ended, we are now good mostly for PVP. I personally plan to switch my redguard warden to tanking..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

Even so, in the vast majority of real time mechanics you are either attacking something, therefore procing AR, blocking, (warrior starfall and when not in execute, shield throws, the latter is optional you can just dodge out of them period, stone atro, rakkat wings, mantikora ground punch, and stonebreaker troll boss ground punch) or sprinting (storm atro for pads, mantikora for popcorn after dodging, zhehaja (cant spell) for cleansing pads and pillars (therefore a bosmer gets nothing and a redguard still gets weapon cost reduction and AR)

ezio45

orc: stam
darkelf: mag
breton: mag sustain
redguard: also stam
woodelf: being trash
highelf: being a more trash vers of darkelf
argoninian: same as before just more trash
imperial: tanking
nord: tanking
khajit: crit but middle of the road on sustained dps

MartiniDaniels

JobooAGS wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

Redguards are now the ultimate Stam sustain race.

They WERE ultimate sustain race. Now they are slightly better at sustain then bosmer at dummy and slightly weaker then bosmer in case of real time mechanics where you can't keep 100% proc of adrenaline rush. And both races are much weaker then orc as stamdps, so era of BiS redguards has ended, we are now good mostly for PVP. I personally plan to switch my redguard warden to tanking..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

Even so, in the vast majority of real time mechanics you are either attacking something, therefore procing AR, blocking, (warrior starfall and when not in execute, shield throws, the latter is optional you can just dodge out of them period, stone atro, rakkat wings, mantikora ground punch, and stonebreaker troll boss ground punch) or sprinting (storm atro for pads, mantikora for popcorn after dodging, zhehaja (cant spell) for cleansing pads and pillars (therefore a bosmer gets nothing and a redguard still gets weapon cost reduction and AR)

Just look at number of procs in combat metrics and divide on length of the fight... it will never be 99% if this is not some easy-peasy boss in normal where you just stand and parse.. and bosmer regen bonus works always with exception of blocking and sprinting and affected by ton of multipliers - i.e. major endurance, cp, vampire/ww, medium armor, so it comes out to ~400-450 regen.

macsmooth

HatchetHaro wrote: »

macsmooth wrote: »

I wouldn’t mind knowing where the Argonian sits now what’s the best role and class for them is now

I have a Argonian DK tank but was debating in turning my Templar Healer into Argonian but she a high elf which is getting a buff to her damage with these changes so I don’t see that as a good change

I like having one of every race and class type, I just wanted to try them all

So I don’t actually know what the Argonian is better at now is it still tanking but as a templar warden sorc or nb or is it healing as something like a templar/nb healer/tank with the boost to healing done

Ps I’m console player so I don’t get to test just commit to a change if needed

The only thing Argonians are good at is PvP due to decent tri-stat resource sustain and immunity to the Diseased status effect.

Healing and Tanking they are decent at, but in those roles they are ultimately vastly outshined by Nords, Imperials, and Bretons from their vastly superior group utility, and even the other races can match Argonians in terms of effectiveness given enough skill.

They're no good at DPS.

Thank you for the reply its on the same thought lines I was having with them, I was contemplating swapping my Argonian dk to my nb tank for dungeon tank off heals and my Nord nb tank to the dk tank for more serious content but have to do the balance on name changes as got two toons I really wanted to change their names lol

I don’t mind PvP as I run all my toons through PvP for transmutation stones (yeah it’s a small amount of time in PvP but hey I didn’t set the goal post) so it’s good that they are at least good for PvP

Thanks for the info I have two weeks to decide what I’m going to do

FrancisCrawford

I have a Redguard DK, lightly used, almost like new, but with a broad variety of weapon skill lines unlocked. What, in theory, would she be good at in PvE?

• Opinions seem divided on the tanking side.
• For damage, I imagine it would be stamina builds that emphasize weapons -- bow/bow, perhaps?
• Probably classic bow/DW builds as well.

Also, what would be optimal for a werewolf? I'm thinking Orc, but what class(es)? Sorcerer, for the two passives that generally boost (physical) damage, plus ultimate reduction?

klowdy1

ezio45 wrote: »

orc: stam
darkelf: mag
breton: mag sustain
redguard: also stam
woodelf: being trash
highelf: being a more trash vers of darkelf
argoninian: same as before just more trash
imperial: tanking
nord: tanking
khajit: crit but middle of the road on sustained dps

I thought altmer looked good for mag. I'm probably missing something, though. Can you expand?

JobooAGS

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

Redguards are now the ultimate Stam sustain race.

They WERE ultimate sustain race. Now they are slightly better at sustain then bosmer at dummy and slightly weaker then bosmer in case of real time mechanics where you can't keep 100% proc of adrenaline rush. And both races are much weaker then orc as stamdps, so era of BiS redguards has ended, we are now good mostly for PVP. I personally plan to switch my redguard warden to tanking..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

Even so, in the vast majority of real time mechanics you are either attacking something, therefore procing AR, blocking, (warrior starfall and when not in execute, shield throws, the latter is optional you can just dodge out of them period, stone atro, rakkat wings, mantikora ground punch, and stonebreaker troll boss ground punch) or sprinting (storm atro for pads, mantikora for popcorn after dodging, zhehaja (cant spell) for cleansing pads and pillars (therefore a bosmer gets nothing and a redguard still gets weapon cost reduction and AR)

Just look at number of procs in combat metrics and divide on length of the fight... it will never be 99% if this is not some easy-peasy boss in normal where you just stand and parse.. and bosmer regen bonus works always with exception of blocking and sprinting and affected by ton of multipliers - i.e. major endurance, cp, vampire/ww, medium armor, so it comes out to ~400-450 regen.

I know, I have done the math. Bosmer regen ranges from 446 to 510 (templar/dk to nightblade) assuming 100 in mooncalf, vampire and you are not blocking or sprinting. Using 3 weapon skills (rending hail and inject) in a static 12 second rotation nets you 108 equlivalent regen (more if you use a dynamic rotation and use each skill off of cooldown and much more if you use rending, rapid strikes or shrouded as a spammable). Adrenline rush, admitally nets you about 170 stam per second, or 340 regen (mostly because of it procing when your stam bar is full and/or you sometimes proc it at second #6 (or 5.x) rather than 5) so 448 regen or more. Consequently, a bosmer's regen isnt going to fully express that 446-510 regen due to you not getting the full effect of your regen when your stam bar is full.

MartiniDaniels

JobooAGS wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

Redguards are now the ultimate Stam sustain race.

They WERE ultimate sustain race. Now they are slightly better at sustain then bosmer at dummy and slightly weaker then bosmer in case of real time mechanics where you can't keep 100% proc of adrenaline rush. And both races are much weaker then orc as stamdps, so era of BiS redguards has ended, we are now good mostly for PVP. I personally plan to switch my redguard warden to tanking..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

Even so, in the vast majority of real time mechanics you are either attacking something, therefore procing AR, blocking, (warrior starfall and when not in execute, shield throws, the latter is optional you can just dodge out of them period, stone atro, rakkat wings, mantikora ground punch, and stonebreaker troll boss ground punch) or sprinting (storm atro for pads, mantikora for popcorn after dodging, zhehaja (cant spell) for cleansing pads and pillars (therefore a bosmer gets nothing and a redguard still gets weapon cost reduction and AR)

Just look at number of procs in combat metrics and divide on length of the fight... it will never be 99% if this is not some easy-peasy boss in normal where you just stand and parse.. and bosmer regen bonus works always with exception of blocking and sprinting and affected by ton of multipliers - i.e. major endurance, cp, vampire/ww, medium armor, so it comes out to ~400-450 regen.

I know, I have done the math. Bosmer regen ranges from 446 to 510 (templar/dk to nightblade) assuming 100 in mooncalf, vampire and you are not blocking or sprinting. Using 3 weapon skills (rending hail and inject) in a static 12 second rotation nets you 108 equlivalent regen (more if you use a dynamic rotation and use each skill off of cooldown and much more if you use rending, rapid strikes or shrouded as a spammable). Adrenline rush, admitally nets you about 170 stam per second, or 340 regen (mostly because of it procing when your stam bar is full and/or you sometimes proc it at second #6 (or 5.x) rather than 5) so 448 regen or more. Consequently, a bosmer's regen isnt going to fully express that 446-510 regen due to you not getting the full effect of your regen when your stam bar is full.

Yep, completely my math which i did a couple weeks ago. So they both are at ~450 which is very good and in real conditions very solid choices because imo it's better to have slightly less dummy dps but be always at good stamina balance so you won't became a broke with heavy attacks in case you need to roll-dodge/vigor a lot when things go nuts. But in score runs of course orcs will be better, so people will treat bosmers and redguards as second class citizens wherever you enter "elite" guild conversation, even if those "elites" are dealing average "okay" dps far from score run level.

Finedaible

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Bosmers are amazing at being guards, now.

With their super eyesight, they will notice any criminal scum trying to break the law under their watch, and with their great ability to roll on the floor to gain speed, they will stop them right there !

All the while taking the stolen goods from the criminal after arresting them and then turning them over to the fence as profit afterwords and then saying They fall for it every time!

Sorry just had to say it.

Ah, so this must be how the new passive fits lore. No honor among thieves, eh?

Veinblood1965

barney2525 wrote: »

were-penguins still are the best at eating fish

I tend to agree with this although there is no empirical evidence that I can find anywhere, do you have any basis for this statement? It would be good to know when we have our weekly meetings.

Katahdin

Thevampirenight wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Bosmers are amazing at being guards, now.

With their super eyesight, they will notice any criminal scum trying to break the law under their watch, and with their great ability to roll on the floor to gain speed, they will stop them right there !

The weirdest part is that Bosmer is set up to be natural counter to Khajiit who is obvious gankers with their +crit damage and increased sneak. However they are in the same alliance

Those roles should be flipped. Khajiit the Counters to the Ganker Race, Bosmer. The ones who will catch sneak thieving Bosmers in the act. Bosmer have lots of places to hide in the forest, Khajiit are more exposed in the desert. Now tell me does this make sense to you that Khajiit can be better sneak thieves then Bosmer who sneak thief all the time?

How about we just remove it from both so people stop whining

r34lian

Nord for fooking tanks before this patch my little nord dk tankypoo had like 27k resist without bloodspawn proc and she wore only sturdy gear now without buff her resists are 31k so I had to replace with Lord warden cause she has now bloodspawn in racial!!

Chilly-McFreeze

ezio45 wrote: »

orc: stam
darkelf: mag
breton: mag sustain
redguard: also stam
woodelf: being trash
highelf: being a more trash vers of darkelf
argoninian: same as before just more trash
imperial: tanking
nord: tanking
khajit: crit but middle of the road on sustained dps

Bollocks