How would you get PvE players out of Battlegrounds

codestripper

Now, I don't actually PvP myself much, but when I do, it's to get caltrops and vigor for a stam character, or warhorn for a tank. I've been seeing a lot of negativity about this in the forums recently, mainly because people just come in with full PvE gear and die or feed to the other team, or they stealth and try to get carried. So I thought of a couple options for this to help both communities.

VaranisArano

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling, but actually offering help?


I say this as a once PVE-only player who tried out PVP and through the help of a really great PVP guild learned to actually enjoy and become a regular PVPer.

We shouldn't want to keep PVE players out of PVP. Sometimes, they stick around and become PVPers.

codestripper

Give 6 Alliance War levels for completing the main quest line for your faction

VaranisArano wrote: »

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling?

Because not everyone wants to PvP, I sure as heck do not. I become very toxic very fast and only let myself do a few matches at a time to prevent that. Not everyone wants to do both gamemodes in this game. If there's anything that people feel is PvE locked they should come up with a solution for it as well, mainly because I know some people that only play this game for the PvP.

If you are a PvE player who actually wants to PvP to get the AP then with either system there would be nothing stopping you.

VaranisArano

codestripper wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling?

Because not everyone wants to PvP, I sure as heck do not. I become very toxic very fast and only let myself do a few matches at a time. Not everyone wants to do both gamemodes in this game. If there's anything that people feel is PvE locked they should come up with a solution for it as well, mainly because I know some people that only play this game for the PvP.

ZOS deliberately locks certain rewards behind different game modes to encourage players to experience ALL of the game. The Battlegrounds style pages are one example of this. So until ZOS abandons that design philosophy and makes all of PVE questing, dungeon, and trials rewards available through PVP (which is obviously not going to happen), then PVP rewards should remain in PVP as part of the same design philosophy.

Good luck convincing ZOS to make such a sweeping change when they balance PVP and PVe together and specifically chose the Class Reps to have experience in both PVE and PVP. I really don't think its going to happen.

redspecter23

Players who are unprepared for battlegrounds will queue up for it for a variety of reasons. You first have to examine if that is an actual problem, then examine ways to fix it if it is in fact a problem. There is an assumption here that the solution is to find ways for pve players (unprepared for battlegrounds) to get the rewards they are looking for elsewhere, therefore removing them from battlegrounds.

No matter what you remove from battleground rewards, there will always be some incentive for non BG players to be there. Whether it's AP, event rewards, outfit styles or just achievements. Players will go there to get those things. I don't believe any amount of incentive removal will stop this.

I would instead look at why underprepared players are in groups that don't fit that play style. I'd personally put the blame on the sorely lacking MMR system. We could likely use a more dynamic system that could properly match high tier players with others of similar skill, which would ideally have a result of matching unprepared players with others that should create a competitive battleground. Perhaps ZOS is afraid to add this feature, thinking it would add to longer queue times overall, but I'd counter that by saying that the battleground queue has numerous issues already and a proper MMR might solve more issues than it is perceived to cause.

codestripper

Give 6 Alliance War levels for completing the main quest line for your faction

VaranisArano wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling?

Because not everyone wants to PvP, I sure as heck do not. I become very toxic very fast and only let myself do a few matches at a time. Not everyone wants to do both gamemodes in this game. If there's anything that people feel is PvE locked they should come up with a solution for it as well, mainly because I know some people that only play this game for the PvP.

ZOS deliberately locks certain rewards behind different game modes to encourage players to experience ALL of the game. The Battlegrounds style pages are one example of this. So until ZOS abandons that design philosophy and makes all of PVE questing, dungeon, and trials rewards available through PVP (which is obviously not going to happen), then PVP rewards should remain in PVP as part of the same design philosophy.

Good luck convincing ZOS to make such a sweeping change when they balance PVP and PVe together and specifically chose the Class Reps to have experience in both PVE and PVP. I really don't think its going to happen.

To be fair, I don't really expect them to make this change, more of a brainstorming thing to see what people have in mind. But to contradict one thing you said, they do actually make monster helms available for purchase with AP, as well as certain styles. Overland sets can be bought with gold made from selling things bought with AP in guild stores, and most sets they use can either be crafted or attained from PvP anyway.

Basically my point is, you don't see a necessary skill locked away from PvP players, but from PvE players you have Vigor, Caltrops, Barrier, Warhorn. Why not make it easier for PvE players to get what they need and clear up the room for actual PvPers to fight in battlegrounds?

It may not solve the entire problem but it would help.

VaranisArano

codestripper wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling?

Because not everyone wants to PvP, I sure as heck do not. I become very toxic very fast and only let myself do a few matches at a time. Not everyone wants to do both gamemodes in this game. If there's anything that people feel is PvE locked they should come up with a solution for it as well, mainly because I know some people that only play this game for the PvP.

ZOS deliberately locks certain rewards behind different game modes to encourage players to experience ALL of the game. The Battlegrounds style pages are one example of this. So until ZOS abandons that design philosophy and makes all of PVE questing, dungeon, and trials rewards available through PVP (which is obviously not going to happen), then PVP rewards should remain in PVP as part of the same design philosophy.

Good luck convincing ZOS to make such a sweeping change when they balance PVP and PVe together and specifically chose the Class Reps to have experience in both PVE and PVP. I really don't think its going to happen.

To be fair, I don't really expect them to make this change, more of a brainstorming thing to see what people have in mind. But to contradict one thing you said, they do actually make monster helms available for purchase with AP, as well as certain styles. Overland sets can be bought with gold made from selling things bought with AP in guild stores, and most sets they use can either be crafted or attained from PvP anyway.

Basically my point is, you don't see a necessary skill locked away from PvP players, but from PvE players you have Vigor, Caltrops, Barrier, Warhorn. Why not make it easier for PvE players to get what they need and clear up the room for actual PvPers to fight in battlegrounds?

It may not solve the entire problem but it would help.

Okay. I'm getting the feeling this is yet another "Why do I have to PVP to get things I want for PVE?" thread. We saw a lot of them around Midyear Mayhem, so this isn't my first time having this debate.

If you are serious about the skills thing:

If you already know these options, sorry for the review of the basics.

If what you really want is the Alliance War skills (which are actually necessary in PVP and only requirements in PVE because they are the meta), you can queue into an empty campaign and repair walls to your heart's content. Little or no PVP required. Then you can get your Caltrops (acquired from the only game mode where you actually face mounted enemies) or Vigor (the only game mode besides vMA where you can expect to not have a magicka healer available if you want) by doing a PVP activity that has practically no risk.

For other methods of low risk AP gain, have a look at my thread here which focuses on Event Tickets, but can be adjusted for AP gain: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/452338/midyear-mayhem-for-no-pvp-pacifists-mostly-pvp-free-ways-to-get-your-event-tickets/

Getting AP for Alliance skills doesn't have to be hard or involve tons of Battlegrounds matches if you hate it. It certainly doesn't have to involve leeching from stealth. But outside of picking up every log-in reward that has AP, you'll have to assume some risk of PVP and that's by design.

To clarify an earlier point, ZOS gates rewards behind content. Not all rewards, certainly, but plenty. If you want Battlegrounds style pages, you'll have to do battlegrounds. If you want trials gear, do trials. If you want Tamriel Skyshard Hunter, you'll have to go to Cyrodiil. If a PVPer wants the Undaunted passives, they have to do PVE delves or dungeons. Some rewards they don't gate permanently, like monster helms in the Golden Vendor, but even there is a substantial RNG and wait factor - on PC/NA it took a full year for the Earthgore Helm to come up on the Golden. If you want all the festival rewards and achievements, you have to do all the content for festivals and that's been PVP, crafting, dungeons, arenas, trials, lockpicking, fishing, stealing and more. In so many ways, ZOS wants players to experience ALL of the game's content to get ALL of the rewards.

There's a lot of reasons that encouraging players to experience all of the game works in ESO's favor, even if the individual player doesn't enjoy it. I understand that you don't enjoy PVP - I certainly did not appreciate having to go to Cyrodiil to get my Master Angler fish. Nevertheless, over the whole game population, ZOS derives more benefits from encouraging players to branch out of their comfort zone than they do from making rewards available without having to branch out. So as much as it may disappoint you, they aren't likely to change this method, and in fact have only doubled down on increasing the rewards that require at least some risk of PVP (Midyear Mayhem rewards and event tickets, BG style Pages, Random BG exp, etc.)

In short, I think that expecting players to have the risk of PVP if they want the rewards gated behind PVP is a feature, not a problem. Same thing for all other content-gated rewards.


So to return to the opening poll question: I see no need to get PVE players out of Battlegrounds. Quite the opposite, since attracting PVE players to Battlegrounds is a deliberate choice by ZOS (for a number of reasons, which have not changed since their release), which ZOS has doubled down on (by increasing the rewards gated behind Battlegrounds since their release). So its unlikely to change unless a great many other things change about the way ESO is balanced and new content is developed. I think gating rewards behind PVE and PVP content is a feature that's a benefit to the overall health of the game, not a problem, and the way ZOS continues to double down on it indicates that they think so as well.

In addition, I think that PVE players who queue for Battlegrounds (or Cyrodiil) should do so prepared to PVP. Accordingly, I do my best to help PVE-only players prepare for PVP and try not to be toxic when they struggle. I remember my own steep learning curve and do my best to help others with it.

If we disagree over the need to give PVE-only players a way to acquire PVP-gated rewards without the risk of PVP activities, let's agree to disagree.

code65536

I don't really see a need for this (as Both)

Is this really a problem?

I tried out BGs last year, enjoyed it, and played BGs somewhat heavily for a couple of months before burning out on it. And from that experience, I'd say that the matchmaking system, while far from perfect, does do its job.

When I first started, I was being pitted against other newbies and people who evidently didn't know how to PvP. But after a number of those matches, I was being matched up against increasingly challenging players. At one point, I spec'ed one of my other (max-level) characters for PvP, and there was a night-and-day difference between the people I'd get matched up against on that "new" character versus the people I faced on the "older" character.

So... you need to demonstrate that this is actually a pervasive problem first. AFAICT, people who don't PvP will be matched up against other people who don't PvP, so there's no problem here.

The only thing that I'd change is make the match-making score account-wide rather than character-specific. Rolling a new character and getting considered by the system as a "newbie" put me in a lot of hilariously lopsided matches before the system finally started matching me against people who knew what they were doing.

Sevn

As long as Zos insists on locking certain skills behind undesirable content nothing will change. This goes for both groups.

Ended up with plenty of pvpers who are just running pve for gear/undaunted, usually the ones blowing thru it as fast as possible. Again, looked down on by pver's but I have no problem zipping thru the dungeons with them either. Plenty of afk folks in my BG teams. It goes both ways.



They are adults. They don't need to be encouraged to try something I'm sure many have tried before.

If they learned early on they don't like broccoli, no matter how many ways you prepare it they still know they don't like broccoli. Asinsine to think someone who has been gaming for decades needs encouragement to try something they know they don't like.

They aren't doing it for the players, they do it to bolster their numbers.

KhajiitFelix

Other (explain)

Make warhorn an undaunted ult and replace assault ult with a real assault ult. As for vigor, caltrops and purge... I don't know.

jcm2606

code65536 wrote: »

The only thing that I'd change is make the match-making score account-wide rather than character-specific. Rolling a new character and getting considered by the system as a "newbie" put me in a lot of hilariously lopsided matches before the system finally started matching me against people who knew what they were doing.

That's gonna be a hard no from me. While general PVP knowledge and experience does play a big part in fights, knowledge and experience playing with your specific class is equally as important.

Take me on DK. I'm not the best player, I make a good amount of mistakes, I'm learning, but I can succeed pretty consistently with DK, so long as my connection doesn't screw me (been dealing with 500 ping in BGs for the past couple days).

On my stamblade, on the other hand, I'm completely useless because I'm just not used to how stamblade plays at all (I've tried to do a brawlblade rather than a stealthblade or a snipeblade).

I have the exact same general PVP knowledge and experience, but on one class, I'm acceptable, at least, while on the other, my team would be better off by having a bloody NPC on their team. If match making were account wide, I wouldn't be able to learn on any other class at all, not that I'm doing so well currently, regardless.

DrFail

So just a thing from my own experience I used to not like PVP at all had 8 just PVE built characters. After BGs just throwing on a mic with randos or with my friend duo queuing me and my friend now almost only PVP. PVE players need to give it a fair shot, throw on a mic or throw in chat "Hey I'm new" and try their best if people wanna be toxic that's on them. But I would rather have a few matches thrown then have the population not expand in PVP content

grannas211

If people only want Vigor/Caltrops there is already a super easy way to do it. Just follow a huge group. They dont even actually need to be a part of the group. You can surf the zerg in one evening and get vigor.

But if there was someway to encourage people to pvp that dont usually do it, Im all for it. I dont mean pve quests though. But I know people who got into pvp that werent at all beforehand. It may not be their main thing all the time, but they enjoy it now.

TheBonesXXX

Other (explain)

Turn them on to PvP

eliisra

I don't really see a need for this (as Both)

Anyone can just join a zerg in Cyrodiil, help take some keeps and get the ranks pretty fast. You can do that in your sleep. You really don't have to do BGs.

It's far from all PvE players that hide in stealth in some corner in BGs anyhow. It's lazy leeching idiots doing it. It's more about having a crappy personalty, than being PvE players. If they could complete dungeons or Undaunted ranks the same way, being carried&leeching they would so that to lol. But if you stealth in a corner in PvE you get votekicked

TheRealPotoroo

VaranisArano wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling?

Because not everyone wants to PvP, I sure as heck do not. I become very toxic very fast and only let myself do a few matches at a time. Not everyone wants to do both gamemodes in this game. If there's anything that people feel is PvE locked they should come up with a solution for it as well, mainly because I know some people that only play this game for the PvP.

ZOS deliberately locks certain rewards behind different game modes to encourage players to experience ALL of the game. The Battlegrounds style pages are one example of this. So until ZOS abandons that design philosophy and makes all of PVE questing, dungeon, and trials rewards available through PVP (which is obviously not going to happen), then PVP rewards should remain in PVP as part of the same design philosophy.

Good luck convincing ZOS to make such a sweeping change when they balance PVP and PVe together and specifically chose the Class Reps to have experience in both PVE and PVP. I really don't think its going to happen.

If ZOS truly wants players to experience all the game modes they should wake up to themselves and make it a bloody sight easier to be useful than it is. For starters, they should immediately implement a dressing room function wherein players can create PVE and PVP setups (completely separate, attribute, skills, inventory, CP, armour/weapons, the lot) that they can switch between with one click at no cost. They'll never do it, of course, because that would be tantamount to admitting what players have been telling them for the past five years: that PVE and PVP are two different games.

Like most people, I loathe PVP at the best of times. I'll be damned if I'll change my PVE setup for a mode I despise and want as little to do with as possible.

TheBonesXXX

Other (explain)

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling?

Because not everyone wants to PvP, I sure as heck do not. I become very toxic very fast and only let myself do a few matches at a time. Not everyone wants to do both gamemodes in this game. If there's anything that people feel is PvE locked they should come up with a solution for it as well, mainly because I know some people that only play this game for the PvP.

ZOS deliberately locks certain rewards behind different game modes to encourage players to experience ALL of the game. The Battlegrounds style pages are one example of this. So until ZOS abandons that design philosophy and makes all of PVE questing, dungeon, and trials rewards available through PVP (which is obviously not going to happen), then PVP rewards should remain in PVP as part of the same design philosophy.

Good luck convincing ZOS to make such a sweeping change when they balance PVP and PVe together and specifically chose the Class Reps to have experience in both PVE and PVP. I really don't think its going to happen.

If ZOS truly wants players to experience all the game modes they should wake up to themselves and make it a bloody sight easier to be useful than it is. For starters, they should immediately implement a dressing room function wherein players can create PVE and PVP setups (completely separate, attribute, skills, inventory, CP, armour/weapons, the lot) that they can switch between with one click at no cost. They'll never do it, of course, because that would be tantamount to admitting what players have been telling them for the past five years: that PVE and PVP are two different games.

Like most people, I loathe PVP at the best of times. I'll be damned if I'll change my PVE setup for a mode I despise and want as little to do with as possible.

They aren't two separate games. You just want them separate.

This philosophy is why we could have an expansive, seamless world.

TheRealPotoroo

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling?

Because not everyone wants to PvP, I sure as heck do not. I become very toxic very fast and only let myself do a few matches at a time. Not everyone wants to do both gamemodes in this game. If there's anything that people feel is PvE locked they should come up with a solution for it as well, mainly because I know some people that only play this game for the PvP.

ZOS deliberately locks certain rewards behind different game modes to encourage players to experience ALL of the game. The Battlegrounds style pages are one example of this. So until ZOS abandons that design philosophy and makes all of PVE questing, dungeon, and trials rewards available through PVP (which is obviously not going to happen), then PVP rewards should remain in PVP as part of the same design philosophy.

Good luck convincing ZOS to make such a sweeping change when they balance PVP and PVe together and specifically chose the Class Reps to have experience in both PVE and PVP. I really don't think its going to happen.

If ZOS truly wants players to experience all the game modes they should wake up to themselves and make it a bloody sight easier to be useful than it is. For starters, they should immediately implement a dressing room function wherein players can create PVE and PVP setups (completely separate, attribute, skills, inventory, CP, armour/weapons, the lot) that they can switch between with one click at no cost. They'll never do it, of course, because that would be tantamount to admitting what players have been telling them for the past five years: that PVE and PVP are two different games.

Like most people, I loathe PVP at the best of times. I'll be damned if I'll change my PVE setup for a mode I despise and want as little to do with as possible.

They aren't two separate games. You just want them separate.

This philosophy is why we could have an expansive, seamless world.

Oh, yes they are. You can't be successful (at anything beyond the trivial) running PVE setups in PVP and vice versa. That's one of the big complaints from things like BGs. BG players are setup properly, PVE players in BGs aren't because it's too much fuss and bother to change everything. In Cyrodiil and especially IC regular PVP players dream of PVE players turning up in their vulnerable PVE setups. PVP players turning up for high end PVE end game stuff in their regular setups would be laughed at before being unceremoniously kicked. And so forth. They're so different in every meaningful way that they're effectively two different games and players have been telling ZOS this for five years.

DocFrost72

I don't really see a need for this (as Both)

My answer is what I voted, but the simplest way to get me out of battlegrounds would be to not have motifs, achieves, titles through them.

Course that's a lame idea I do not support.

kylewwefan

I don't really see a need for this (as a PvE player)

Guarantee me the AP bonus win or lose, would be a bit more enticing than just first or second place. I’ll take anything into battlegrounds, and find them highly enjoyable!

Sure, some people get upset with me for sucking very badly, but that’s more on them than me. Try hards.

jhall03

Add daily quests (PvE) for each faction to earn AP

Although I don't really see a need for this, I'm trying to be empathetic to people who don't want a thing to do with PVP.

A daily quest would be fair and equitable considering Undaunted has one. As far as the structure of that quest, I'm really not sure how it would be implemented. To truly not do PVP but gain PVP experience seems like a difficult task for the devs to come up with, especially after the One Tamriel changes.

The best solution would be to put warhorn and vigor in a different skill line, but throwing them into the Undaunted skill line wouldn't work because PVPers would then have the same argument.

My prediction is nothing will change.

gepe87

Other (explain)

Add a 12v12v12 and 6v6v6 modes would input a nice transition between open world pvp and 4x4x4.
Split grouped vs randoms would increase as well pvers to do pvp regularly .
Ppl know that battlegrounds are full of a procs, bleeds, snares, cheese and salt.

VaranisArano

jhall03 wrote: »

Although I don't really see a need for this, I'm trying to be empathetic to people who don't want a thing to do with PVP.

A daily quest would be fair and equitable considering Undaunted has one. As far as the structure of that quest, I'm really not sure how it would be implemented. To truly not do PVP but gain PVP experience seems like a difficult task for the devs to come up with, especially after the One Tamriel changes.

The best solution would be to put warhorn and vigor in a different skill line, but throwing them into the Undaunted skill line wouldn't work because PVPers would then have the same argument.

My prediction is nothing will change.

There are a lot of Cyrodiil town dailies that carry very little risk of PVP if you do them on a low-population server. Furthermore, you can port to a home keep and repair the walls and resources for AP if you buy repair kits. Again, little to no risk of PVP since you can simply port out quickly if the keep comes under attack.

Mind you, those don't give a lot of AP individually, but the delves quests doesn't give a lot of Undaunted Exp either.

This was geared towards Event Tickets, but could easily be adjusted for AP as well: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/452338/midyear-mayhem-for-no-pvp-pacifists-mostly-pvp-free-ways-to-get-your-event-tickets

Heimpai

I’m expected to pull at least 30k dps in vDSA for my pvp weapons so why can’t pvers just take a min and play

the ones that afk as i hard carry them is annoying but if you go out there and try (even if you’re not good) you’re more than welcome to hmu and I’ll help you

Curtdogg47

I don't really see a need for this (as a PvP player)

PVE players carried some of us PVP players so we could get our monster helms! Now PVP players can carry PVE players through PVP content so they can get what they want from it!

Knootewoot

Other (explain)

If someone, PvP or PvE player, enters a battleground they shouldn't cowar in the shadows.
First of all, they would gain more AP if they actively participate. But also not to ruin others game.
What if I join a PvE dungeon and don't help to fight?.. I get kicked.
I really don't understand why some are so afraid of dying to another player. It's so sad.

I don't think anything needs to change, except the players mentality.

90% of the game is already PvE. PvP players have to do that stuff also. If you want something from PvP, which can be obtained in less then a day btw, then actively participate.

If you get toxic (can't understand why) see your local psychiatrists.

jhall03

Add daily quests (PvE) for each faction to earn AP

VaranisArano wrote: »

jhall03 wrote: »

Although I don't really see a need for this, I'm trying to be empathetic to people who don't want a thing to do with PVP.

A daily quest would be fair and equitable considering Undaunted has one. As far as the structure of that quest, I'm really not sure how it would be implemented. To truly not do PVP but gain PVP experience seems like a difficult task for the devs to come up with, especially after the One Tamriel changes.

The best solution would be to put warhorn and vigor in a different skill line, but throwing them into the Undaunted skill line wouldn't work because PVPers would then have the same argument.

My prediction is nothing will change.

There are a lot of Cyrodiil town dailies that carry very little risk of PVP if you do them on a low-population server. Furthermore, you can port to a home keep and repair the walls and resources for AP if you buy repair kits. Again, little to no risk of PVP since you can simply port out quickly if the keep comes under attack.

Mind you, those don't give a lot of AP individually, but the delves quests doesn't give a lot of Undaunted Exp either.

This was geared towards Event Tickets, but could easily be adjusted for AP as well: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/452338/midyear-mayhem-for-no-pvp-pacifists-mostly-pvp-free-ways-to-get-your-event-tickets

I did forget about those. Funny that I actually did those years ago. Still can be said though that it is "mostly PVP free"

Alfie2072

Give 6 Alliance War levels for completing the main quest line for your faction

codestripper wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

How about encouraging PVE players who queue up for Battlegrounds to play the game mode like its intended? And then not being toxic to players who are struggling?

Because not everyone wants to PvP, I sure as heck do not. I become very toxic very fast and only let myself do a few matches at a time to prevent that. Not everyone wants to do both gamemodes in this game. If there's anything that people feel is PvE locked they should come up with a solution for it as well, mainly because I know some people that only play this game for the PvP.

If you are a PvE player who actually wants to PvP to get the AP then with either system there would be nothing stopping you.

sure, let me buy all the trial sets with ap, let me buy monster helms and shoulders with ap (not random ones once a week, but any of them at my choosing), give viable XP methods out of pvp so i can level new characters just as fast in pvp as i can in pve, and let me gain max cp just as fast pvping as i can pve'ing, then we will talk about giving you the pvp skills without pvping

Alfie2072

Give 6 Alliance War levels for completing the main quest line for your faction

i also voted for the wrong one rip

ecru

Other (explain)

Delete all stealth mechanics. New people go into cyrodiil, get ganked a few times, and never come back. These kinds of abilities are only ever enjoyable for the person using them, and you would have figured developers would have learned by now that near permanent stealth just isn't a good idea because no one enjoys playing against it, but here we are in 2019 where you can disappear forever until you feel like engaging again in a MMO.

Aside from that, removing impen and adjusting crit damage in pvp so that impen is no longer required to survive. The stat shouldn't even exist, and due to the fact that it's almost required for every single person in cyrodiil it becomes entirely redundant. It also leads to little to no diversity in traits for almost all builds.

Morgul667

I don't really see a need for this (as Both)

Can we get undaunted without doing dungeons and dailies?