Should High Elf gain Disease Resistance?

Gnortranermara

As we all know, ZOS has decided to gork High Elf with a PvP-only "utility" passive that does nothing for PvE Magicka DPS. Frankly, this sucks. Any High Elf who wanted stam regen could've easily enchanted for it. We had a choice, but now we're being given no choice but to accept a grossly inefficient wasted passive. This nerf violates every development goal we've been publicly told: "play the way you want", "universal applicability", "retain gameplay identity". All empty words to an Altmer scorned.

Given the lack of comment from ZOS and their failure to fix this mess in 4.3.3, it looks like somebody is stubbornly committed to this awful decision. So if they won't revert it, what can be done to make things slightly better?

Add Disease Resistance to High Elf!

1. It's "balanced", according to ZOS' own reasoning. Off-stat regen partially hybridizes High Elf, but we still have a non-hybrid stat budget. We should've gotten a passive stat budget increase with this nerf. Remember what Gil said about hybrids?
"We decided to find a healthy standard for total racial power provided and used that budget (roughly 6.5 set bonuses) for the power that each passive would grant. We used the previous version of Redguard and Altmer as our target goal. Note that some of our hybrid races will be a slightly higher value, since their power is divided. Most of the races received buffs to reach this figure." -@ZOS_Gilliam, here

High Elf is under budget. (And therefore this addition should be made without an accompanying nerf to any other passive.)

2. It's a "utility" passive that is weak, but useful. Disease is a very uncommon damage type in the game, but resistance offers immunity to the Diseased status effect which eliminates some (not all) source of Defile. That makes it a desirable passive for PvP. If High Elf is going to be shoved into a PvP niche, then we should at least get a little more utility in that direction.

3. It's lore-friendly. See High Elf in TES IV: Oblivion.

So what do you think? For purposes of the poll let's assume ZOS is not going to do the sensible thing and fix their blunder, so simple question:

Should High Elf get Disease Resistance?

Chilly-McFreeze

Duh. Would have voted yes, only for lore reasons. But I can't stand the whining on how poor Altmers are now. Parses show their pve dps is fine. Other races have pvp oriented passives too. Get used to it.

Iskiab

Yes, High Elf should get Disease Resistance.

Better yet, oblivion damage reduction. Will help in pvp and not effect pve. While channeling damage reduction isn’t good for a lot of classes.

twing1_

No, High Elf should not get Disease Resistance.

altmer should get increased chance to apply status effects instead of their off-stat sustain tool. Dunmer should inherit this off-stat sustain tool to strengthen their identity as the hybrid race and provide a legitimate reason to choose magicka dunmer over magicka altmer.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457979/lack-of-racial-identity-between-altmer-and-dunmer#latest

twing1_

No, High Elf should not get Disease Resistance.

accidental double post

Lord_Eomer

I'm a special butterfly and you have to read my comment to see what I think.

No disease but may be Lighting resistance and 600 Health.

colossalvoids

Yes, High Elf should get Disease Resistance.

The most lore friendly proposal here and really welcomed one.

SaintSubwayy

Iskiab wrote: »

Better yet, oblivion damage reduction. Will help in pvp and not effect pve. While channeling damage reduction isn’t good for a lot of classes.

not sure if the Orbs dots in CR aint oblivion dmg tho

MashmalloMan

I'm a special butterfly and you have to read my comment to see what I think.

Your blind bias is showing. Although they could use something new, they're fine for PvE and hate to break it to you, but almost every race has passives only useful either conditionally or PvP oriented, it's up to the person using the race to how useful those passives are to their playstyle.

Altmer is not a hybrid race so your whole argument goes out the window for set bonus value. Your Stam is used for utility the same way mag is used on stam setups for utility. Tri stat glyghs and at least 129 mag recovery is very common on a lot of stam pvp setups, balance for PvE is very narrow and I'm grateful the entire game isnt balanced around DPS pushing numbers.

For the sake of game balance, I'd like to see shock resistance since disease/poison/fire/ice are already covered. For lore, I suppose diseased males sense and I could see this added if the 5% channel mitigation was removed or the Stam return was tuned slightly down.

If altmer receive anything though, it's clear Dunmer deserve something small but unique too. Maybe 10 % reduction to dodge rolling or something like that, they have yet to showcase Dunmer's agility in any of its passives which is a huge miss.

ezio45

No

ezio45

Just give them the f'ing Regen back...

Seriously so sick of these brain dead decisions from zos

Elwendryll

I'm a special butterfly and you have to read my comment to see what I think.

Ok. And add a malus to spell resist 😇 So the passives would be fully canon.

rafaelcsmaia

I'm a special butterfly and you have to read my comment to see what I think.

Yes please, add disease resistance. Also zos pls add 10% more motorcycle speed and double the crops when cultivating potatoes, because lore.

Ratzkifal

I'm a special butterfly and you have to read my comment to see what I think.

Altmer should get a weakness to magic, because that has been in every Elder Scrolls game until Skyrim and there is no reason for them not to have it now. Obviously there should be an insentive behind putting points into that passive so throw a juicy bonus onto it that makes people consider it. Kind of like vampirism.

MLGProPlayer

Yes, High Elf should get Disease Resistance.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

If altmer receive anything though, it's clear Dunmer deserve something small but unique too. Maybe 10 % reduction to dodge rolling or something like that, they have yet to showcase Dunmer's agility in any of its passives which is a huge miss.

Dunmer already get flame damage resistance. OP is trying to bring Altmer up to Dunmer's level by giving them an elemental resistance passive as well.

Seraphayel

No, High Elf should not get Disease Resistance.

No. High Elves don't need additional resistances.

Nevertheless I am fine with some adjustments to the 5% reduction while channeling. Make it 10% after you blocked an attack for 4 seconds or something like that.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Yes, High Elf should get Disease Resistance.

*** it, give it to 'em. They could do with a little extra style without it being a damage increase.

Gnortranermara

Yes, High Elf should get Disease Resistance.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Parses show their pve dps is fine.

Fight something longer than 2 minutes and get back to me.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Other races have pvp oriented passives too. Get used to it.

Irrelevant. Those races were already balanced around PvP before Wrathstone. PvP'ers intentionally choose those races in order to get those PvP passives. Altmer was balanced better for PvE, and PvE'ers picked it for that purpose. That choice should not be diminished by retroactively nerfing our passives.

And no, I won't "get used to it". If such a stupid decision is allowed to stand, this game is dead to me. I will have zero confidence in the dev team going forward and I won't invest any more time building up characters only to suffer every time some meddling game manager gets a visit from the Bad Idea Fairy and nobody else in the office has the balls to call it out. Sure, I could live with it, but I don't have to and I'm not going to ride along on the nerf rollercoaster with a new team that is making senseless decisions. It's the principle of it. I don't like giving money to people who do stupid things that negatively affect my fun, so I won't.

Iskiab wrote: »

While channeling damage reduction isn’t good for a lot of classes.

Agreed, that should be 6 secs after activating any class ability. Templars shouldn't be the only ones getting the passive.

twing1_ wrote: »

altmer should get increased chance to apply status effects

I'd settle for that.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

No disease but may be Lighting resistance and 600 Health.

That would be more beneficial, but there's no basis for it in the lore. I'm trying to stick to the stated company goals.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Your blind bias is showing.

Non-sense. Altmer has 2k Magicka and 256 SD, the equivalent of only ~4 set piece bonuses. The original Magicka sustain passive was barely worth ~1.2 set bonuses in testing, and that was when it was actually relevant. The defensive bonus is almost entirely Templar-specific, yet another build-limiting niche that shouldn't be part of racial passives. Altmer was already under-budget compared to other races, and this senseless nerf made it worse.

Compare to Breton, who still hypocritically gets damage and sustain bonuses, with a budget of ~2 damage bonuses, 1 defensive bonus, and ~3+ sustain bonuses. Compare to Dark Elf, who gets almost the same ~3.9 damage bonuses Altmer has, plus almost 2k stam and a defensive bonus comparable to what I'm asking for. Compare to Orc, 2k main stat, 256 WD, and a ton of other legitimately useful passives, including main stat and off-stat recovery that outperforms Spell Recharge. Biased? Nah son. I look at the numbers before making judgments.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Altmer is not a hybrid race

Then tell that to ZOS and get my frickin' Mag Recovery back. Altmer shouldn't be a hybrid race, but it is suffering the downsides of being one as long as we're stuck with a garbage off-stat regen passive. If we're going to be stuck with the downsides, then we deserve the benefits that go with it.

Draxys

lol

FakeFox

I'm a special butterfly and you have to read my comment to see what I think.

Disease resistance is trash. Spell or physical resistance would be okay.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Yes, High Elf should get Disease Resistance.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

No disease but may be Lighting resistance and 600 Health.

The whole point of this suggestion is it's a trait they have had in multiple past games. Meanwhile they used to take MORE damage from lightning and other magic attacks. So bad idea.

FakeFox wrote: »

Disease resistance is trash. Spell or physical resistance would be okay.

Racial style. People think its lacking and its not like Cold resistance is THAT useful on a nord, but it sure it fitting.

Dracane

No, High Elf should not get Disease Resistance.

I agree with your reasoning, but your suggestion is an utter nightmare.
Even the stamina recovery is more useful than disease resistence. Disease resistence makes sense lorewise, because Altmer are the most vital and long lived race.

However, I would rather see this manifest in a health boost rather than this trash.

Urvoth

They need a buff for sure and I would take disease resistance over nothing, but I'd rather have a +10% enchant effectiveness bonus, oblivion dmg reduction, or mag regen.

Thevampirenight

Yes, High Elf should get Disease Resistance.

Dieasese resitance and 15 percent weakness to flame/lightening, ice and shock. With a return of their high resource pool regen.

DarkPicture

Shock resistance fits better to altmers, but nowadays dunno they are hybrid

validifyedneb18_ESO

Yes, High Elf should get Disease Resistance.

Browart wrote: »

Shock resistance fits better to altmers, but nowadays dunno they are hybrid

Litterally the oppersite of what established lore says, but sure, that's a suggestion I guess.

Chilly-McFreeze

I'll just put my answers in the quote, as bolded.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Parses show their pve dps is fine.

Fight something longer than 2 minutes and get back to me.

Where do 2-3% dps difference actually matter? In places where your sustain is backed by a leaderboard raid team? Or when you burn down through any 4 man dungeon? Doubt that it makes an actual difference for those who aren't on the verge of being perfect in their rotation, backed by an awesome team anyway.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Other races have pvp oriented passives too. Get used to it.

Irrelevant. Those races were already balanced around PvP before Wrathstone. PvP'ers intentionally choose those races in order to get those PvP passives. Altmer was balanced better for PvE, and PvE'ers picked it for that purpose. That choice should not be diminished by retroactively nerfing our passives.

Were they? I remember Redguards being the meta pick for any pve stam set up but that new snare reduction passive seems rather pvp centered to me. And your Altmer isn't suddenly trash for pve. Don't know where you got that from.

And no, I won't "get used to it". If such a stupid decision is allowed to stand, this game is dead to me. I will have zero confidence in the dev team going forward and I won't invest any more time building up characters only to suffer every time some meddling game manager gets a visit from the Bad Idea Fairy and nobody else in the office has the balls to call it out. Sure, I could live with it, but I don't have to and I'm not going to ride along on the nerf rollercoaster with a new team that is making senseless decisions. It's the principle of it. I don't like giving money to people who do stupid things that negatively affect my fun, so I won't.

Your choice. I also had quit over some stupid changes ZOS made. However, the mag races are better balanced then ever. To me this seems like throwing a tantrum for not being the undeniable #1 mag meta race anymore (alongside with Dunmer, whose weapon dmg and stamina doesn't do much for pve mag specs).

Iskiab wrote: »

While channeling damage reduction isn’t good for a lot of classes.

Agreed, that should be 6 secs after activating any class ability. Templars shouldn't be the only ones getting the passive.

So basically 100% uptime on 5% damage reduction. Got it.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Your blind bias is showing.

Non-sense. Altmer has 2k Magicka and 256 SD, the equivalent of only ~4 set piece bonuses. The original Magicka sustain passive was barely worth ~1.2 set bonuses in testing, and that was when it was actually relevant. The defensive bonus is almost entirely Templar-specific, yet another build-limiting niche that shouldn't be part of racial passives. Altmer was already under-budget compared to other races, and this senseless nerf made it worse.

Compare to Breton, who still hypocritically gets damage and sustain bonuses, with a budget of ~2 damage bonuses, 1 defensive bonus, and ~3+ sustain bonuses. Compare to Dark Elf, who gets almost the same ~3.9 damage bonuses Altmer has, plus almost 2k stam and a defensive bonus comparable to what I'm asking for. Compare to Orc, 2k main stat, 256 WD, and a ton of other legitimately useful passives, including main stat and off-stat recovery that outperforms Spell Recharge. Biased? Nah son. I look at the numbers before making judgments.

You really bend anything you can, don't you? All that talk about stam return being useless for PvE Altmer mag specs and then you go on and tell us how a bigger stam pool is a plus for PvE Dunmer mag specs. That's quite hypocritical.

Edit: To add to you "those races where already pvp centered" comment. Isn't the whole reason why the pve meta was redguards as stam dps and altmers & dunmers as mag dps because other races had those "mixed bags" and lagged behind what you'd call pure pve races (who arguably were even top in pvp)? It's fine that they all come closer together, really.

Witar

It would be actually cool if altmers got morrowind-like passives. Something like superhigh magicka with vulnerabilities to magicka and elemental damage.