Maintenance for the week of February 18:
• [COMPLETE] Xbox One: EU megaserver for maintenance – February 20, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 4.3.4 is available. You can find the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459684/
The Wrathstone DLC Game Pack and Update 21 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454456/

Bosmer should get 1500 penetration as baseline

Bigevilpeter
Bigevilpeter
✭✭✭✭✭
Its the only way this passive can be useful in PvE and I think 1.5k penetration isnt so overpowered. Or maybe 1k penetration baseline and doubled after dodge rolling
Edited by Bigevilpeter on February 12, 2019 7:44AM
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I agree, even if they drop it to 1k, Bosmer should get it as just a flat passive. It's obviously a biased PvP passive, and if the devs are truly seeking more balance across the races, I think this would be a really good change for bosmer.
    Bee/Karstyll
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Bee~Altmer Templar~AR50 Former Empress of Trueflame
    Wyress Bee~Breton Warden~AR43
    Mini Bee~Bosmer Nightblade~AR33
    Bee Devani~Dunmer Sorcerer~AR31

    Despair~Altmer Sorcerer~AR29 Former Empress of Azura's Star
    Fairly Beeweather~Bosmer Nightblade~AR19
  • Nox_Noir
    Nox_Noir
    ✭✭✭✭
    I'd be happy with 300 even, if it was baseline.
    At least then it could be properly included into penetration min-max for trials.
    Edited by Nox_Noir on February 12, 2019 10:22AM
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
    ✭✭✭✭
    Agreed
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want ZOS to take you seriously at all, bring numbers.

    They have clearly stated that threads like this are useless to them. Buff this, nerf that, I'm unhappy because of X. Show them calculations or target dummy numbers and justify your proposal.
  • Bigevilpeter
    Bigevilpeter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want ZOS to take you seriously at all, bring numbers.

    They have clearly stated that threads like this are useless to them. Buff this, nerf that, I'm unhappy because of X. Show them calculations or target dummy numbers and justify your proposal.

    It really not just about numbers in that case, its just the appeal to players. For example altmers are still very strong with just 2 passives, but since they have a third very useless passive a lot of people will change to something else that has 3 passives.

    Same issue with bosmer people will be very discouraged to make pve bosmers, 1000 penetration is like 10cp points so its not game breaking but it will make the race much more appealing for pve players
  • FrankonPC
    FrankonPC
    ✭✭✭
    The issue with this passive as it is is that it only benefits specific builds, namely high recovery roll dodging stamblades.

    I am fine with reducing the overall value if it's an issue in pve just to make it a flat value for all builds to use. Just seems weird that you have to satisfy a condition defensively in order to benefit offensively. Most other passives are just flat values.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want ZOS to take you seriously at all, bring numbers.

    They have clearly stated that threads like this are useless to them. Buff this, nerf that, I'm unhappy because of X. Show them calculations or target dummy numbers and justify your proposal.

    It really not just about numbers in that case, its just the appeal to players. For example altmers are still very strong with just 2 passives, but since they have a third very useless passive a lot of people will change to something else that has 3 passives.

    Same issue with bosmer people will be very discouraged to make pve bosmers, 1000 penetration is like 10cp points so its not game breaking but it will make the race much more appealing for pve players

    Right, and 1000 pen on any other race would also encourage people to play those races. My point is, you need to show the damage is not up to par, and make your case numerically for why this change would work for PVE damage.
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Would it not be too strong in Pve?

    2k mad stam, 258 recovery and pen?

    You could spec full weapon damage, have high stam and have extra pen.
  • Bigevilpeter
    Bigevilpeter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want ZOS to take you seriously at all, bring numbers.

    They have clearly stated that threads like this are useless to them. Buff this, nerf that, I'm unhappy because of X. Show them calculations or target dummy numbers and justify your proposal.

    It really not just about numbers in that case, its just the appeal to players. For example altmers are still very strong with just 2 passives, but since they have a third very useless passive a lot of people will change to something else that has 3 passives.

    Same issue with bosmer people will be very discouraged to make pve bosmers, 1000 penetration is like 10cp points so its not game breaking but it will make the race much more appealing for pve players

    Right, and 1000 pen on any other race would also encourage people to play those races. My point is, you need to show the damage is not up to par, and make your case numerically for why this change would work for PVE damage.

    you are really missing my point
  • Bigevilpeter
    Bigevilpeter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Would it not be too strong in Pve?

    2k mad stam, 258 recovery and pen?

    You could spec full weapon damage, have high stam and have extra pen.

    1k pen is 10 cp points, also its a pure stamina race so that wouldnt be so bad compared to they hybrids who are as strong now
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    bosmer historically never got huge dmg increases unless it was bow related. Unless you are all prepared to have the penetration attached to bow instead of globally off a dodge roll.

    Bosmer is fine, just uniquely attached to their dodge roll due to their affinity to acrobactics/speed/stealth/light armor.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Why does this passive need to be useful in PvE?

    1.5k flat pen is too much. That's a 3-4% damage boost. Way too OP considering they already have 2k max stam and 258 stam regen.
  • macsmooth
    macsmooth
    ✭✭✭
    Dodge roll, la, endless hail, la, caltrops, la, bar swap, dodge roll, la, ....... bar swap, la, dodge roll, la, .......

    Is that how it works?
  • Dalsinthus
    Dalsinthus
    ✭✭✭✭
    If you want ZOS to take you seriously at all, bring numbers.

    They have clearly stated that threads like this are useless to them. Buff this, nerf that, I'm unhappy because of X. Show them calculations or target dummy numbers and justify your proposal.

    It really not just about numbers in that case, its just the appeal to players. For example altmers are still very strong with just 2 passives, but since they have a third very useless passive a lot of people will change to something else that has 3 passives.

    Same issue with bosmer people will be very discouraged to make pve bosmers, 1000 penetration is like 10cp points so its not game breaking but it will make the race much more appealing for pve players

    Right, and 1000 pen on any other race would also encourage people to play those races. My point is, you need to show the damage is not up to par, and make your case numerically for why this change would work for PVE damage.

    This has been done already and posted to the forums. There's a build video using the dodge roll in a pve rotation which pulls a lousy 26k dps. In other words, numbers that are not competitive for pve content compared to many other options. This passive is situationally useful for pvp, but inferior to the options available from other races, particularly orc.

  • Dalsinthus
    Dalsinthus
    ✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Bosmer is fine, just uniquely attached to their dodge roll due to their affinity to acrobactics/speed/stealth/light armor.

    If fine = inferior for stam pve dps to orc, dumner, and khajit then OK. But that doesn't seem fine to me. They're OK with the stam and regen passives, but not as good as other options.

    Also bosmer do not receive any stealth bonuses anymore (just detection of others in stealth, a marginally useful pvp only passive). So I don't know what you're talking about there. Further, they'll benefit from medium armor, not light, as they tilt heavily toward stam dps.



  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Didn't ZOS say they don't want damage and regen on the same racial? And no, 75 regen isn't what anyone would consider a real regen passive.
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Dalsinthus wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Bosmer is fine, just uniquely attached to their dodge roll due to their affinity to acrobactics/speed/stealth/light armor.

    If fine = inferior for stam pve dps to orc, dumner, and khajit then OK. But that doesn't seem fine to me. They're OK with the stam and regen passives, but not as good as other options.

    Also bosmer do not receive any stealth bonuses anymore (just detection of others in stealth, a marginally useful pvp only passive). So I don't know what you're talking about there. Further, they'll benefit from medium armor, not light, as they tilt heavily toward stam dps.



    light in other elder scrolls games meant leather, light mail, glass armor, etc. Light armor in ESO was actually no armor in the other games. In ESO, in the case of converting what bosmers enjoy, is medium armor.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • ezio45
    ezio45
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Agreed

    And highelf should get baseline spell pen
    Edited by ezio45 on February 12, 2019 7:00PM
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    They should not. No race should have got over 3.8 of set bonuses worth of useful stats (regen, dmg, main resource, health). Bosmer have quite horrible utility passive compared to other races and it should be changed but not this way. Same as Orc shouldnt have its 1k health.

    If bosmer got something better than penetration tied dodge or some other utility passive helping the 'agility' mindset or some other regen (mag regen) to help the regen race mind set it would be just fine.
    PC | EU | AD
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want ZOS to take you seriously at all, bring numbers.

    They have clearly stated that threads like this are useless to them. Buff this, nerf that, I'm unhappy because of X. Show them calculations or target dummy numbers and justify your proposal.

    It really not just about numbers in that case, its just the appeal to players. For example altmers are still very strong with just 2 passives, but since they have a third very useless passive a lot of people will change to something else that has 3 passives.

    Same issue with bosmer people will be very discouraged to make pve bosmers, 1000 penetration is like 10cp points so its not game breaking but it will make the race much more appealing for pve players

    Right, and 1000 pen on any other race would also encourage people to play those races. My point is, you need to show the damage is not up to par, and make your case numerically for why this change would work for PVE damage.

    you are really missing my point

    How exactly? You're asking for a buff without actually talking about the numbers.

    "Its 10 CP". Ok. Well first CP has diminishing returns so its not. And secondly thats 10CP you could invest into something else. A damage boost is a damage boost, and you need to justify why its needed.
  • RandomKodiak
    RandomKodiak
    Soul Shriven
    Running Lover and 32 CP pen Sorc bow/bow/ build. I ran 3 of each this morning same gear, same CP , same food. I did 3 runs each at a 3mil dummy, first set was Volley, LA,LA, LA, LA, LA repeat, second set was exact same but after a dodge difference was.907-.96 damage differencein favor of the extra pen. Then did one each with caltrops, PI and Snipe in there same differnce of .9. Conclusion the extra 1500 pen if you are not at cap is a whopping extra 1% damage overall for the time of the buff. Not a game changer in any respect. If that's all they are going to give us I'll take a1% damage bonus when I have to roll dodge but they are a bit nuts if they call that a buff.
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    simeion wrote: »
    LiquidPony wrote: »
    Why does this passive need to be useful in PvE?

    1.5k flat pen is too much. That's a 3-4% damage boost. Way too OP considering they already have 2k max stam and 258 stam regen.

    Your numbers are way off. 660 pen/resist is equal to 1% damage/mitigation. While a I agree 1500 pen is a lot with the other passive, the woodelf needs to have a useful passive that does not require the use of dodge roll to activate. If the passive was a cost reduction or a 1 second reduction in the dodge roll penalty then it would be a true passive. Instead this passive has a cost of 3654 stam in order to get it, this act like an ability more than a passive.

    According to how the Devs themselves claim they want passives to be equal to 2-4 pieces on item sets and each race having around 6.5 item set value per race. Wood elf only reaches 6.3 with 100% up time on the dodge roll passive. There is so much more the race can get and not be OP.

    Compared to other races the Wood Elf does less damage then Orcs and Dark Elves. The Wood Elf only out sustains the Redguard if the wood elf is a vamp at the required stage. Redguard could pull more DPS based on the ultimate used. If the reguard used ballista they get them more often then wood elves because of the ulti cost reduction. Each race should have a unique flair and most of the races have this. Orcs have high DPS and survivability, Dark Elves have the ability to move between stam and magic without a race change and Redguards are the king of sustain.

    Wood Elves need a passive rework. It needs to be a true passive where a player does not have to spend 3654 stam to use and useful in both PvE and PvP.

    Well not just that, but multiple people have stated it would be fine if they reduced the pen given, as long as it's a baseline passive. People aren't reading.
    Bee/Karstyll
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Bee~Altmer Templar~AR50 Former Empress of Trueflame
    Wyress Bee~Breton Warden~AR43
    Mini Bee~Bosmer Nightblade~AR33
    Bee Devani~Dunmer Sorcerer~AR31

    Despair~Altmer Sorcerer~AR29 Former Empress of Azura's Star
    Fairly Beeweather~Bosmer Nightblade~AR19
  • simeion
    simeion
    ✭✭✭
    Well not just that, but multiple people have stated it would be fine if they reduced the pen given, as long as it's a baseline passive. People aren't reading.

    I would like to see the passive become more lore based. Since Green Pact Bosmer are supposed to eat their enemies once defeted. Change the passive to Carnivorous Frenzy it can do something unique.

    1. 5% damage increase to target under 15% health. Sort of a built in execute because of the feeding time.
    2. Restore 1k stam after killing an enemy and give it a 4-6 second cooldown.
    3. Restore 1k health same as above.

    By all means the numbers are just place holders and need to be adjusted for balance.
    Edited by simeion on February 12, 2019 11:35PM
  • frostitomik
    frostitomik
    ✭✭
    Literally anything else would be more useful then penetration bonus after roll dodge. Just a few ideas:

    a) increase your physical and spell resistance after roll dodge by 1500

    b) reduce the cost of sprint and roll dodge by 15%

    c) increase your crit chance by 15% after roll dodge (vigor)

    c) 1500 penetration to your bow abilities (flat stat)

    ...but I am going to keep my bosmer anyway, because bosmers have the most important passive skill from all races, if you know what I mean B)
    Edited by frostitomik on February 13, 2019 1:30AM
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Flat penetration + speed on dodgeroll would be great. If ZOS insists on penetration after dodgeroll, then they should make it like the Breton resistance. Flat penetrations + more penetration after dodgeroll.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    simeion wrote: »
    Well not just that, but multiple people have stated it would be fine if they reduced the pen given, as long as it's a baseline passive. People aren't reading.

    I would like to see the passive become more lore based. Since Green Pact Bosmer are supposed to eat their enemies once defeted. Change the passive to Carnivorous Frenzy it can do something unique.

    1. 5% damage increase to target under 15% health. Sort of a built in execute because of the feeding time.
    2. Restore 1k stam after killing an enemy and give it a 4-6 second cooldown.
    3. Restore 1k health same as above.

    By all means the numbers are just place holders and need to be adjusted for balance.

    Sure, I think even changing the passive to something better would be a good idea too. I just firmly believe tying this particular bonus to roll dodge is stupid.
    Bee/Karstyll
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Bee~Altmer Templar~AR50 Former Empress of Trueflame
    Wyress Bee~Breton Warden~AR43
    Mini Bee~Bosmer Nightblade~AR33
    Bee Devani~Dunmer Sorcerer~AR31

    Despair~Altmer Sorcerer~AR29 Former Empress of Azura's Star
    Fairly Beeweather~Bosmer Nightblade~AR19
  • idk
    idk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dalsinthus wrote: »
    If you want ZOS to take you seriously at all, bring numbers.

    They have clearly stated that threads like this are useless to them. Buff this, nerf that, I'm unhappy because of X. Show them calculations or target dummy numbers and justify your proposal.

    It really not just about numbers in that case, its just the appeal to players. For example altmers are still very strong with just 2 passives, but since they have a third very useless passive a lot of people will change to something else that has 3 passives.

    Same issue with bosmer people will be very discouraged to make pve bosmers, 1000 penetration is like 10cp points so its not game breaking but it will make the race much more appealing for pve players

    Right, and 1000 pen on any other race would also encourage people to play those races. My point is, you need to show the damage is not up to par, and make your case numerically for why this change would work for PVE damage.

    This has been done already and posted to the forums. There's a build video using the dodge roll in a pve rotation which pulls a lousy 26k dps. In other words, numbers that are not competitive for pve content compared to many other options. This passive is situationally useful for pvp, but inferior to the options available from other races, particularly orc.

    I pretty much guarantee there are many players who can get much more out of a Bosmer than whoever did that video.
    If you want ZOS to take you seriously at all, bring numbers.

    They have clearly stated that threads like this are useless to them. Buff this, nerf that, I'm unhappy because of X. Show them calculations or target dummy numbers and justify your proposal.

    It really not just about numbers in that case, its just the appeal to players. For example altmers are still very strong with just 2 passives, but since they have a third very useless passive a lot of people will change to something else that has 3 passives.

    Same issue with bosmer people will be very discouraged to make pve bosmers, 1000 penetration is like 10cp points so its not game breaking but it will make the race much more appealing for pve players

    Right, and 1000 pen on any other race would also encourage people to play those races. My point is, you need to show the damage is not up to par, and make your case numerically for why this change would work for PVE damage.

    you are really missing my point

    Reading that line of discussion it seems you have missed the point. Proper testing with actual numbers talk. The rest walks.
    Edited by idk on February 13, 2019 7:57AM
    Really, idk
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Would it not be too strong in Pve?

    2k mad stam, 258 recovery and pen?

    You could spec full weapon damage, have high stam and have extra pen.

    1k pen is 10 cp points, also its a pure stamina race so that wouldnt be so bad compared to they hybrids who are as strong now

    It's not if you already have 3.5k pen in the CP tree like I do on my pve spec. It adds up to a LOT more then.

    The pen bonus on dodgeroll is pretty decent in PvP as well. Especially on stamblade - which most bosmer tend to be. You're always dodgerolling so it will have a decent uptime.
    Edited by Brrrofski on February 13, 2019 8:12AM
Sign In or Register to comment.