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Consider completely redoing passives to reduce racial differences.

LordTareq
LordTareq
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So there have always been differences in performance between races since launch, but I feel these were slightly less impactful than the new updated racial traits.
Its really quite vexing that if I want to play my favorite playstyle (stamina) with my favorite race (Altmer) I significantly handicap myself. Compared to say the ‘hybrid’ Dunmer, I loose out on stamina & weapon damage that amounts to roughly 10% more damage with my current stats. If I compare it to the ‘true’ stamina races its even worse.
As can be seen from all the discussions on these boards the racial passives are the subject of quite heated discussions.

Please consider reducing all the combat bonuses the new racials provide, to reduce the difference in power between races for different playstyles. Perhaps focus more on 'flavor' passives rather than raw combat stats to compensate?
Edited by LordTareq on February 9, 2019 5:54PM
  • susmitds
    susmitds
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    As somebody who does extensive testing on this, I think you will be pleased with the final results. The racials are as close as possible.
  • Austinseph1
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    Race makes up like a 2k difference, which is about 3%. DPS isn’t the only thing that matters in this game. Skill with your class will by far and wide make up the difference.
  • LordTareq
    LordTareq
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    Race makes up like a 2k difference, which is about 3%. DPS isn’t the only thing that matters in this game. Skill with your class will by far and wide make up the difference.

    Depends, considering these are flat bonuses they have more impact with lower DPS. For a tank with 10.000 DPS the racial difference can be as much as 20%. For 2k to be equal to 3% difference as you mention, the DPS needs to be >60k. Not many reach such numbers.
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Or just go back to the changes in the first PTS patch. The gaps betweeen the races were much smaller than the latest patch. The only race that shouldn't be reverted is Dunmer.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 9:13PM
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    What are you talking about? DPS differences between races will be much smaller due to the changes as they are now on live.
  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    This update hits me hard then most players as I only play 15 Argonians for lore reasons I will never have the “best” race for every role but this is the best race banlace of all TES games.
    If like me you are long time fan of The Elder Scrolls you would agree that all races can preform the same roles but in different ways.

    Take Nords they are great warriors and their passives point to that but add that to a mage and you really have something. No not the best magic DPS but you can put love which matters more. More resistance and health more them harder to kill, added stamina makes them they harder to keep CCed. While not the normal mage they are now very strong mages that can fill roles that were harder to fill before.

    To use your example a High Elf stamina build is able to use more class utilities it would be able to use Bolt to run in and out of fights, Cloak and Shakes to disappear more or Reflect on a Dragon Knight Archer. An Archer that can fight at range only needing to fear channels it’s not the average archer but it’s a damn good one. So no your Archer will not win is a raw DPS test but you can fight in a way that a Bosmer could not. Your extra magic and recovery with let you use reflect more often.

    It’s not all about DPS we have new way to rethink builds. Sure you could make a Redguard stamina build but other races when ones with magic passives can make a great stamina build just not in the same way.
    Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
    Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
    Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
    Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
    Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
    Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
    Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
    Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
    Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
    Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
    Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
    Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
    Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
    Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master

    For the King of Argonia
    May Sithis hold back his Void
  • Kalle_Demos
    Kalle_Demos
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    No.

    "If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn
  • Lughlongarm
    Lughlongarm
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    NO!!!!
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Or just go back to the changes in the first PTS patch. The gaps betweeen the races were much smaller than the latest patch. The only race that shouldn't be reverted is Dunmer.

    An interesting observation, where is the data though?
  • Chelo
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    susmitds wrote: »
    As somebody who does extensive testing on this, I think you will be pleased with the final results. The racials are as close as possible.

    Testing thus far has concluded that all races are within 2k DPS difference between them. People see this and say they're pretty balanced. I see it and say, there's 2k worth of factors that need adjusting.

    Why settle for 2K when it can be 1k? 500? 100?

    You will never find a 100% balanced MMO...
  • DoobZ69
    DoobZ69
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    Chelo wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    As somebody who does extensive testing on this, I think you will be pleased with the final results. The racials are as close as possible.

    Testing thus far has concluded that all races are within 2k DPS difference between them. People see this and say they're pretty balanced. I see it and say, there's 2k worth of factors that need adjusting.

    Why settle for 2K when it can be 1k? 500? 100?

    You will never find a 100% balanced MMO...

    SWTOR has 100% balanced racial passives.
  • HatchetHaro
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    susmitds wrote: »
    As somebody who does extensive testing on this, I think you will be pleased with the final results. The racials are as close as possible.

    As somebody who does even more extensive testing and calculations on this along with a ton of end-game trial experience under my belt, I am not pleased with your results.

    Your results are inconclusive due to your flawed testing methodology and lack of consistency in parsing numbers. You introduced a ton of varying variance in terms of human error that skews the average numbers. Your normalization of all the Health in all the races for your testing results in another skewing of numbers that inaccurately represent races with more Health, when in realistic end-game raiding scenarios people really don't do that. Your usage of Green food rather than Blue or Gold food also represents that inaccuracy in your testing methodology, and your reasoning of using that to "simulate" the CP changes does not hold up due to CP being a % change rather than a flat Magicka value. There's no control in your tests at all. All you have are pretty graphs and a flawed promise of "mathematical results" that ultimately mislead the playerbase.
    Edited by HatchetHaro on February 11, 2019 12:24PM
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
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    LordTareq wrote: »
    So there have always been differences in performance between races since launch, but I feel these were slightly less impactful than the new updated racial traits.
    Its really quite vexing that if I want to play my favorite playstyle (stamina) with my favorite race (Altmer) I significantly handicap myself. Compared to say the ‘hybrid’ Dunmer, I loose out on stamina & weapon damage that amounts to roughly 10% more damage with my current stats. If I compare it to the ‘true’ stamina races its even worse.
    As can be seen from all the discussions on these boards the racial passives are the subject of quite heated discussions.

    Please consider reducing all the combat bonuses the new racials provide, to reduce the difference in power between races for different playstyles. Perhaps focus more on 'flavor' passives rather than raw combat stats to compensate?

    I don’t think races need to be balanced and I like the idea that they all offer unique things. However, they should all receive something that is as good or helpful than the other but that’s where it gets difficult.
    .
  • Narvuntien
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    Either you care about doing the best dps and which case you'll choose whatever class/race/resource combo is the best or you don't care pick whatever you want reach 30K dps and do all the content in the game with that.
  • LordTareq
    LordTareq
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Either you care about doing the best dps and which case you'll choose whatever class/race/resource combo is the best or you don't care pick whatever you want reach 30K dps and do all the content in the game with that.

    Really, there is nothing in between? People are either roleplayers who cares nothing for stats as long as they can do content, or min-maxers who cares nothing for which species their toons are as long as it provides the best stats?
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