THE NEW BOUNTY HUNTING SYSTEM: a serious debate

TheShadowScout

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

Dig into the forums sometime, look to around the time the justice system was added in the first place, and you will find a great many people whining about it, declaring it would "ruin" provisioning crafting for lack of ingredients if they became "owned", demanding that they somehow get to "opt out" of getting a bounty for stealing everything like they used to before that came, etc.
I remember those times. I reckon Nestor does as well.

And as with any system, the main question is... will it benefit the powers that be? And what benefits them... is what they can get more profit from. So, if they made such a system... would there be a demand? Would people pay for a DLC such as that? Would enough people risk getting ganked for there to be enough of a target group to make the gankers buy the thing??

Heck, we get people making discussions whining about wanting to "opt out of PvP" in frigging -cyrodil- every month or two... so they can grab all the PvE stuff without getting ganked... in a bloody warzone... thus, the conclusion that "just a few people using it" is based on observation and pure logic.

Karmanorway

*Accidently steals bread next to craglorn guild trader* - gets jumped by 50 bounty Hunter...

Sign me up! This system is an excellent idea! 😁

Smitch_59

Algorax wrote: »

Smitch_59 wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Knightpanther wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

Optional or not, the PvP component of the Justice System is not going to be added.

"Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25563

Could not agree with them more, keep PvP away from PVE.

Be safe

Do you.... realize that is not like than even now?
Besides, as i wrote, it would be fully optional, so puny pvers would be safe as long as they don't mess with things they can't handle!

The fact that you so eloquently refer to "puny pvers" speaks volumes about your motives.

Oooor i was just taunting the likes of you and you just fell in my trap

So you admit you are merely trolling. Suspicions confirmed!

Despite the thread title, this is not a "serious debate." It's more like the Monty Python argument sketch.

Tandor

I can see that this is one of those topics where the OP has expressed his opinion and won't countenance any other. As such, the topic will go the same way as every other one of the gazillion other proposals to foist PvP on PvEers while maintaining that it's purely optional. It never is, and this one is no exception. If holding a contrary opinion to the OP isn't an option then you can guarantee that his proposal won't be optional either.

This proposal is simply a regurgitated variation on the many similar proposals that have been put forward before. As such, some PvPers will like it, most PvEers will hate it, and ZOS will ignore it because they made their position quite clear in "ESO- The Year Ahead" dated 12/01/16 when they said:-

"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."

eso_nya

the most obvious exploit to a pvp bounty system:

Player A taketh a naked (0 gold; empty inventory) toon and nuketh Hadrans Caravan from orbit. After obtaining a super high bounty within seconds (getting to the 1m for the "pay your bounty" achiev took me less than 10 mins), he escapeth to a secret remote place, where he waiteth in stealth.

Player B meeteth him there (in your case, after picking the quest for him) and heroically killeth him off for quick profit. Which they both than (or after repeating that for a couple hours) share.

other problematics r:
- harassment (when there isnt an opt out)
- balance of risk never worth it (like on upgrading with below 100% chance) vs rewards to big in remote locations during off hours
- being "spotted" by afk players // the game not supporting a click target system

Not bashing u or your idea (actually sounds better than most that popped up during the last four years). I do believe it is wasted efford tho. Afaik, the justice system was dropped cause it would be overcomplicated, hard to implement and yet easy to exploit. The "idea" went into the telly-stone mechanic in ic. I might be wrong, still dont hold your breath on it ever happening.

Acrolas

To draw parallels to Bethesda's other intellectual property, I can't help but feel the below quoted is exactly what would happen in ESO. The Enforcer side is messy enough, but we would have plenty of instances of Outlaws racking up a bounty just to bait other players into attacking them and then gloating about it.

Guards get the job done and functionally can't be killed. But they're also predictable. So the NPC portion provides challenges for the justice system without any of the bragging rights somebody on either side might attempt to squeeze from such encounters.


"It turns out that motivation to indulge the back and forth of griefers and those who are bothered by them, as was pointed out to me on Twitter at the time, is exactly what makes the Fallout 76 bounty system a problem. For those who genuinely want to annoy or harm others, the idea of being a wanted outlaw on the map, with the additional honor badge of playing the game at a more difficult level due to attacks by other players, is just an incentive: it both gives them the attention they want, and makes them feel like they’re a superior player for their troubles. It’s a recipe for disaster, one that additionally shifts the responsibility away from Bethesda in terms of moderating their own game."
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/01/well-that-fallout-76-griefing-problem-sure-worked.html

Katahdin

Tandor wrote: »

I can see that this is one of those topics where the OP has expressed his opinion and won't countenance any other. As such, the topic will go the same way as every other one of the gazillion other proposals to foist PvP on PvEers while maintaining that it's purely optional. It never is, and this one is no exception. If holding a contrary opinion to the OP isn't an option then you can guarantee that his proposal won't be optional either.

Yup can't have a "serious discussion" with a closed mind.

Red_Feather

If that sheogorath weapon in cyrodiil system works out, then they can do something for thieving too.

A daedric prince randomly picks a player with high bounty to become a cat burglar with special perks and any player who catches them gets a reward.

Darlon

Preventing players from leaving the zone for a certain amount of time.... right.... not going to happen... people will just log off, queue for dungeon or bg, or queue for cyrodiil....

Switching zones is so much part of this game, that any timer of some significant length to force someone to stay in 1 zone is something that will never happen

Kalgert

Smitch_59 wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Knightpanther wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

Optional or not, the PvP component of the Justice System is not going to be added.

"Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25563

Could not agree with them more, keep PvP away from PVE.

Be safe

Do you.... realize that is not like than even now?
Besides, as i wrote, it would be fully optional, so puny pvers would be safe as long as they don't mess with things they can't handle!

The fact that you so eloquently refer to "puny pvers" speaks volumes about your motives.

Yep. He strikes me as nothing more than a common PvP ***.

Algorax

Katahdin wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I can see that this is one of those topics where the OP has expressed his opinion and won't countenance any other. As such, the topic will go the same way as every other one of the gazillion other proposals to foist PvP on PvEers while maintaining that it's purely optional. It never is, and this one is no exception. If holding a contrary opinion to the OP isn't an option then you can guarantee that his proposal won't be optional either.

Yup can't have a "serious discussion" with a closed mind.

This makes me wonder why some of you are here then.
Your hosility and stubborness despite the fact that all your arguments were refuted is astnishing

Algorax

Darlon wrote: »

Preventing players from leaving the zone for a certain amount of time.... right.... not going to happen... people will just log off, queue for dungeon or bg, or queue for cyrodiil....

Switching zones is so much part of this game, that any timer of some significant length to force someone to stay in 1 zone is something that will never happen

Again, it's a choice you would face if the reward is really enough good to justify the effort. Also consider that bgs and other activities bind you to a certain place one way or another.
And, btw, you are always free to leave, but paying the price for your actions as you do when you disert a dungeon or a bg

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Katahdin wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I can see that this is one of those topics where the OP has expressed his opinion and won't countenance any other. As such, the topic will go the same way as every other one of the gazillion other proposals to foist PvP on PvEers while maintaining that it's purely optional. It never is, and this one is no exception. If holding a contrary opinion to the OP isn't an option then you can guarantee that his proposal won't be optional either.

Yup can't have a "serious discussion" with a closed mind.

Lmao, OP still isn’t giving up XDD it’s like the one sad person thinking WildStar was still alive and denying the facts despite many people having proof that the OP was wrong.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Algorax wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I can see that this is one of those topics where the OP has expressed his opinion and won't countenance any other. As such, the topic will go the same way as every other one of the gazillion other proposals to foist PvP on PvEers while maintaining that it's purely optional. It never is, and this one is no exception. If holding a contrary opinion to the OP isn't an option then you can guarantee that his proposal won't be optional either.

Yup can't have a "serious discussion" with a closed mind.

This makes me wonder why some of you are here then.
Your hosility and stubborness despite the fact that all your arguments were refuted is astnishing

Btw: you post on a public form? Prepare to have different opinions from everyone. The forums don’t revolve around you.

Nestor

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

I have been on the boards here since the beginning. Even before the beginning. There us a small subset of people who want PVP Justice, most players do not. Numerous polls also support this.

This is not the first time this has been brought up.

SgtSilock

They had already planned to add this feature, but it was canned. So I would not hold your breath.

https://youtu.be/3LkeMacg-b0?t=2944

Ender1310

Thumbs up! Great post! Would be fun!

wsmith97ub17_ESO

Eve online had this in place. It was exploited heavily by the wanted person committing huge crimes and upset players placing very huge bounties on him/her.

Then wanted guys buddies would kill him, split profit = win, rinse repeat.

Algorax

Nestor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

I have been on the boards here since the beginning. Even before the beginning. There us a small subset of people who want PVP Justice, most players do not. Numerous polls also support this.

This is not the first time this has been brought up.

No, i mean how can you be certain of the percentages, of the fact that those who whish such system are less than those who oppose to its relisation.
I am afraid that you are mistaking those who simply says "it will not happen", maybe bc of the former statements, with those who oppose the idea.

Tandor

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

I have been on the boards here since the beginning. Even before the beginning. There us a small subset of people who want PVP Justice, most players do not. Numerous polls also support this.

This is not the first time this has been brought up.

No, i mean how can you be certain of the percentages, of the fact that those who whish such system are less that those who oppose to its relisation.
I am afraid that you are mistaking those who simply says "it will not happen", maybe bc of the former statements, with those who oppose the idea.

I suggest you do some research. Nestor is absolutely right, all previous discussions have centred around a few players who want to impose PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE zones (usually with false options) and the many who do not want that, all set within the context of ZOS making it absolutely clear that it isn't going to happen. As flogging dead horses go, it's right up there with auction houses.

There are only a few people in this thread who offer any sort of sympathy for the idea, and most of them either favour it being purely in Cyrodiil or else believe it won't happen anyway. The topic's only reached the third page because you've made over 30% of the posts yourself!

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Tandor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

I have been on the boards here since the beginning. Even before the beginning. There us a small subset of people who want PVP Justice, most players do not. Numerous polls also support this.

This is not the first time this has been brought up.

No, i mean how can you be certain of the percentages, of the fact that those who whish such system are less that those who oppose to its relisation.
I am afraid that you are mistaking those who simply says "it will not happen", maybe bc of the former statements, with those who oppose the idea.

I suggest you do some research. Nestor is absolutely right, all previous discussions have centred around a few players who want to impose PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE zones (usually with false options) and the many who do not want that, all set within the context of ZOS making it absolutely clear that it isn't going to happen. As flogging dead horses go, it's right up there with auction houses.

There are only a few people in this thread who offer any sort of sympathy for the idea, and most of them either favour it being purely in Cyrodiil or else believe it won't happen anyway. The topic's only reached the third page because you've made over 30% of the posts yourself!

I agree with the last sentence, most of them are from Algo

generalmyrick

im not a great fan of pvp but i love the idea of real life bounty hunters. what's the problem here?

too easy to get away from a npc guard and not as easy to flee from a human trying to hunt you down?

Algorax

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

I have been on the boards here since the beginning. Even before the beginning. There us a small subset of people who want PVP Justice, most players do not. Numerous polls also support this.

This is not the first time this has been brought up.

No, i mean how can you be certain of the percentages, of the fact that those who whish such system are less that those who oppose to its relisation.
I am afraid that you are mistaking those who simply says "it will not happen", maybe bc of the former statements, with those who oppose the idea.

I suggest you do some research. Nestor is absolutely right, all previous discussions have centred around a few players who want to impose PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE zones (usually with false options) and the many who do not want that, all set within the context of ZOS making it absolutely clear that it isn't going to happen. As flogging dead horses go, it's right up there with auction houses.

There are only a few people in this thread who offer any sort of sympathy for the idea, and most of them either favour it being purely in Cyrodiil or else believe it won't happen anyway. The topic's only reached the third page because you've made over 30% of the posts yourself!

I agree with the last sentence, most of them are from Algo

Well, ofc: i made the post and i answered. It's a discussion, as the title says, afterall...
Anyway you can measure the interest from how many ppl visited the topic.

Algorax

Tandor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

I have been on the boards here since the beginning. Even before the beginning. There us a small subset of people who want PVP Justice, most players do not. Numerous polls also support this.

This is not the first time this has been brought up.

No, i mean how can you be certain of the percentages, of the fact that those who whish such system are less that those who oppose to its relisation.
I am afraid that you are mistaking those who simply says "it will not happen", maybe bc of the former statements, with those who oppose the idea.

I suggest you do some research. Nestor is absolutely right, all previous discussions have centred around a few players who want to impose PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE zones (usually with false options) and the many who do not want that, all set within the context of ZOS making it absolutely clear that it isn't going to happen. As flogging dead horses go, it's right up there with auction houses.

There are only a few people in this thread who offer any sort of sympathy for the idea, and most of them either favour it being purely in Cyrodiil or else believe it won't happen anyway. The topic's only reached the third page because you've made over 30% of the posts yourself!

Well ofc discussions are revolving around their supportes: that's how a basic thesis-antithesis system works...
The fact that they discarded their idea doesn't imply that another one may not take its place, reinforced by new concepts.

Algorax

generalmyrick wrote: »

im not a great fan of pvp but i love the idea of real life bounty hunters. what's the problem here?

too easy to get away from a npc guard and not as easy to flee from a human trying to hunt you down?

You can tell many things from some pepole's reactions to this topic...

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Algorax wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

I have been on the boards here since the beginning. Even before the beginning. There us a small subset of people who want PVP Justice, most players do not. Numerous polls also support this.

This is not the first time this has been brought up.

No, i mean how can you be certain of the percentages, of the fact that those who whish such system are less that those who oppose to its relisation.
I am afraid that you are mistaking those who simply says "it will not happen", maybe bc of the former statements, with those who oppose the idea.

I suggest you do some research. Nestor is absolutely right, all previous discussions have centred around a few players who want to impose PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE zones (usually with false options) and the many who do not want that, all set within the context of ZOS making it absolutely clear that it isn't going to happen. As flogging dead horses go, it's right up there with auction houses.

There are only a few people in this thread who offer any sort of sympathy for the idea, and most of them either favour it being purely in Cyrodiil or else believe it won't happen anyway. The topic's only reached the third page because you've made over 30% of the posts yourself!

Well ofc discussions are revolving around their supportes: that's how a basic thesis-antithesis system works...
The fact that they discarded their idea doesn't imply that another one may not take its place, reinforced by new concepts.

Dude, 27 out of all the posts are by you and you alone.

Sylvermynx

Algorax wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Here is the thing. Even if, and I stress the even, this would have to be an opt in. Which means few would opt in to this so, a lot of time and effort to introduce pvp into a pve world. And just a few people using it.

And how exactly did you come to this apprisal?

I have been on the boards here since the beginning. Even before the beginning. There us a small subset of people who want PVP Justice, most players do not. Numerous polls also support this.

This is not the first time this has been brought up.

No, i mean how can you be certain of the percentages, of the fact that those who whish such system are less that those who oppose to its relisation.
I am afraid that you are mistaking those who simply says "it will not happen", maybe bc of the former statements, with those who oppose the idea.

I suggest you do some research. Nestor is absolutely right, all previous discussions have centred around a few players who want to impose PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE zones (usually with false options) and the many who do not want that, all set within the context of ZOS making it absolutely clear that it isn't going to happen. As flogging dead horses go, it's right up there with auction houses.

There are only a few people in this thread who offer any sort of sympathy for the idea, and most of them either favour it being purely in Cyrodiil or else believe it won't happen anyway. The topic's only reached the third page because you've made over 30% of the posts yourself!

I agree with the last sentence, most of them are from Algo

Well, ofc: i made the post and i answered. It's a discussion, as the title says, afterall...
Anyway you can measure the interest from how many ppl visited the topic.

Yeah well, you could learn how to multi-quote so you're not stretching the post count.

Or - maybe not.

Korah_Eaglecry

TBois wrote: »

I didn't read everything, but did you know that the justice system was supposed to have pvp involved with players as the law and criminals. Thankfully they tabled the pvp part before implementation.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241386/pvp-justice-system-canceled

Fixed that for ya.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

“Anyway you can measure the interest from how many ppl visited the topic.“

Also that’s just people looking at and reading it, not all of them are interested, and many could be the same person 20X

Diminish

Acrolas wrote: »

Optional or not, the PvP component of the Justice System is not going to be added.

"Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25563

That statement is literally a scapegoat to scrap a feature. Logically, it makes absolutely zero sense. You want your safe space bubble in your safe space areas? Don't commit crime, and rack up a bounty, idiot (not you personally =P). Problem solved.