Nord vs Imperial racial after testing on PTS

profundidob16_ESO

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

susmitds

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replace by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

+6000 stats will an pain to balance in CP PvP. A better way is to let Imperials gain Stamina from blocking.

profundidob16_ESO

That's indeed something completely different but really useful. If the stamina return is decent that would equally make the choice tougher for me

Olupajmibanan

susmitds wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replace by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

+6000 stats will an pain to balance in CP PvP. A better way is to let Imperials gain Stamina from blocking.

Stamina, Magicka nd Health from new racials aren't affected by 20% CP bonus. They act just like food buffs.

profundidob16_ESO

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replace by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

+6000 stats will an pain to balance in CP PvP. A better way is to let Imperials gain Stamina from blocking.

Stamina, Magicka nd Health from new racials aren't affected by 20% CP bonus. They act just like food buffs.

ok, so that's another reason on top of what we had

NobleX35

susmitds wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replace by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

+6000 stats will an pain to balance in CP PvP. A better way is to let Imperials gain Stamina from blocking.

This is not a very good idea, as it still limits Imperial to nothing more than tanking. One of the points for all these changes is to provide more options for players when choosing their race...not less. Anything that locks a race into one specific role or playstyle does not provide good balance and should be redesigned. Which is why the block and bash cost reduction needs to be changed entirely to something more universally useful.

Some alternative ideas that have been tossed around include +x max magicka, -x% break free cost reduction, or -x% cost reduction to all skills.

profundidob16_ESO

NobleX35 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replace by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

+6000 stats will an pain to balance in CP PvP. A better way is to let Imperials gain Stamina from blocking.

This is not a very good idea, as it still limits Imperial to nothing more than tanking. One of the points for all these changes is to provide more options for players when choosing their race...not less. Anything that locks a race into one specific role or playstyle does not provide good balance and should be redesigned. Which is why the block and bash cost reduction needs to be changed entirely to something more universally useful.

Some alternative ideas that have been tossed around include +x max magicka, -x% break free cost reduction, or -x% cost reduction to all skills.

No,

that is actually a very bad idea. What you propose leaves basically zero options to choose from for a tank. Then it will for sure be Nord all the way for all tanks unless they change that too but then they may as well start over with racial design...again !

don't get me wrong. In the great scheme of things I think you're right and I would also would like to see a completely different designed universal racial traits system that are all universally useful to any situation so racial choice becomes more a free thing and any race can be used for any role/class.

But that is not the case, that is not the situation we're in. ZOS has carefully analyzed and redone the racial design all over from scratch just now and clearly they have made the conscious choice of grouping some races together as valid options for tanking, some other races as options for stamdps, some together for magdps, etc...and yes some of them overlap and can be used for multiple goals.

But the fact is that this is the model ZOS has chosen and it is in that context that this thread was written. Don't come tell me that the Imperial race with bonuses like 5% block reduction is not made or intended for tanking...if this is the intended direction by ZOS then they just need to make it a truly competitive and valid tanking option, perfectly comparable to Nord. Within that context my earlier statements still stand.

dsalter

just replace the block costs reduction with minor slayer+one critical resistance trait worth of stats (i forget the actual name i woke up 20mins ago need coffee)
since the imperials have always made great legionaries and were always fond of arenas so having a bonus against dungeon enemies and abit of player resistance makes huge sense and doesnt bottle neck them into one play style

Rungar

i think the right combo for imperials would be 2k health & 1500 mag and stam. The 5% block/bash cost could have a mechanism that returned a 1 ultimate on a "successful" block or bash every 3 seconds (20 ultimate/min). Not quite as good/easy as nords but makes better use of decisive trait "when you gain ultimate" strategy.

that would be unique since it can be used both offensively and defensively making it well rounded but not too strong.

Rex-Umbra

I want Imperial to be a Hybrid not a tank. Replace the 2k health with Magicka and replace the heal with something that returns stam and magicka.

profundidob16_ESO

2K stam, 2K mag and 2k health would be very suiting and could make it viable for more than just tanking but still competitive for tanking builds.

It would also fit the bill the imperials are an all-round race with allround stats

DisgracefulMind

I very firmly believe that Nord shouldn't be receiving so much resists from their buff. They're getting about 4k to both spell and physical resist. It should be dropped to one or the other, or both values toned down.

commdt

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

If nord retained his 6% (1.5% in fact) DR against Imperial 5% (1% in fact) BC bonuses would be the same (useles). But they replaced nord 6% with flat 4k resistance which makes it really 6% DR. So the same replacement is in order for Imperial. -260 BC will make it really 5%, which will allow to drop 1-2 Shieldplay and replace it with whatever useful

Silver_Strider

Imperial Suggestion
Toughness: 2k Health
Conditioning: Changed into Imperial Mettle: 1000 Magic+Stamina
Red Diamond: Restore 300 Health, Magic and Stamina upon activation of a Weapon ability. 5 second CD. Reduce the cost of Block/Bash by 5%.

Imperial becomes a well balanced race, offering something for all roles to benefit from equally.
Nord has more Tank factor and Group Utility (although I do still feel Nord does need a buff so that it's not so underwhelming in terms of DPS but that's another matter entirely)

IronWooshu

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

Numbers? Math? If you left everything the same I am guessing those 4k resists were useless to you since you were most likely at cap, the DPS had to be lower since you get 500 more stamina. The only difference in the situation you explained would be the ultimate generation and I highly doubt that single passive made the biggest difference between your Nord and Imperial DK test unless you can explain better rather than making this post feel more disingenuous.

profundidob16_ESO

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

Numbers? Math? If you left everything the same I am guessing those 4k resists were useless to you since you were most likely at cap, the DPS had to be lower since you get 500 more stamina. The only difference in the situation you explained would be the ultimate generation and I highly doubt that single passive made the biggest difference between your Nord and Imperial DK test unless you can explain better rather than making this post feel more disingenuous.

No,

the first thing where you're wrong is that 4K is useless. Quite the contrary. All of them are essential. It allows you to:

1. easily wear the 3 types of armor in a mix and still reach the cap or close to.
2. not to have to put many (or any) cp points in heavy armor.
3. easily wear monster sets without resistance on them such as e.g the awesome upcoming Stonekeeper set

from here you should be able to see the many possibilities that open up. If it were only 2000 resist the options would be alot fewer and the choice between Nord and Imperial alot harder.

The petty selfheals on the other hand as a group tank are 100% useless and completely overshadowed by the group healer.

I hope this explains well enough for you

sneakymitchell

Imperials still got better heal and have biggest stat pool. 15% any direct damage no cooldown.that is very nice to have.

IronWooshu

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

Numbers? Math? If you left everything the same I am guessing those 4k resists were useless to you since you were most likely at cap, the DPS had to be lower since you get 500 more stamina. The only difference in the situation you explained would be the ultimate generation and I highly doubt that single passive made the biggest difference between your Nord and Imperial DK test unless you can explain better rather than making this post feel more disingenuous.

No,

the first thing where you're wrong is that 4K is useless. Quite the contrary. All of them are essential. It allows you to:

1. easily wear the 3 types of armor in a mix and still reach the cap or close to.
2. not to have to put many (or any) cp points in heavy armor.
3. easily wear monster sets without resistance on them such as e.g the awesome upcoming Stonekeeper set

from here you should be able to see the many possibilities that open up. If it were only 2000 resist the options would be alot fewer and the choice between Nord and Imperial alot harder.

The petty selfheals on the other hand as a group tank are 100% useless and completely overshadowed by the group healer.

I hope this explains well enough for you

How far do you want to move your goalposts?

My reply was not about the 4k resists being bad. I understand the uses for it probably better than you. My reply on the 4k resists was that in your original post you stated that this was about tanking. So right there a tank isn't going to wear medium or light armor. Now in your original post said you copied your DK Imperial (WHICH I ASSUME WAS ALREADY MAX RESISTS) and then race changed to Nord. Well If you did that (and follow along here), if you did that then the ONLY racial that would have made a difference between YOUR tests if you didn't change anything (You kept the conditions the same, you said so in your original post) is the ultimate regeneration.

So explain what the difference is besides an 8 second earlier Warhorn. Your tests should have shown...

Imperial - More Health than Nord
Imperial - More Stamina which means more Damage than Nord
Imperial - More Healing than Nord
Imperial - Able to Block more than Nord

My question was if you legitimately tested and you are a good tank than what are the numbers that skewed you to believe Nord is so much better than Imperial "IN TANKING" because your original post was SOELY about tanking and in this thread you have gone off on tangents so far off your original post you come off as bitter and jealous towards Nords. Those 4k resists seem to bother you so much they mean nothing to any other race that wants to tank when resists are already easily reached. The thing the resists will shine on is in PVP, being able to wear medium and light more effectively. I mean sure Nords don't have to wear Lord Warden but all the other sets are just greedy sets that don't really help the team other than yourself.

Us Nord players have been 3rd wheel in the tanking line and have never been meta for any other DPS role, we finally get put into a good place and you try to turn a friendly buff Imperial thread into a nerf Nord thread because of what?

Your tests were biased towards Nords before you began testing.

Every race has trade offs, if you are worried BiS tank race is going to be Nord I would say look at the Redguard which will be able to perma block with their stamina sustain.

profundidob16_ESO

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

Numbers? Math? If you left everything the same I am guessing those 4k resists were useless to you since you were most likely at cap, the DPS had to be lower since you get 500 more stamina. The only difference in the situation you explained would be the ultimate generation and I highly doubt that single passive made the biggest difference between your Nord and Imperial DK test unless you can explain better rather than making this post feel more disingenuous.

No,

the first thing where you're wrong is that 4K is useless. Quite the contrary. All of them are essential. It allows you to:

1. easily wear the 3 types of armor in a mix and still reach the cap or close to.
2. not to have to put many (or any) cp points in heavy armor.
3. easily wear monster sets without resistance on them such as e.g the awesome upcoming Stonekeeper set

from here you should be able to see the many possibilities that open up. If it were only 2000 resist the options would be alot fewer and the choice between Nord and Imperial alot harder.

The petty selfheals on the other hand as a group tank are 100% useless and completely overshadowed by the group healer.

I hope this explains well enough for you

How far do you want to move your goalposts?

My reply was not about the 4k resists being bad. I understand the uses for it probably better than you. My reply on the 4k resists was that in your original post you stated that this was about tanking. So right there a tank isn't going to wear medium or light armor. Now in your original post said you copied your DK Imperial (WHICH I ASSUME WAS ALREADY MAX RESISTS) and then race changed to Nord. Well If you did that (and follow along here), if you did that then the ONLY racial that would have made a difference between YOUR tests if you didn't change anything (You kept the conditions the same, you said so in your original post) is the ultimate regeneration.

So explain what the difference is besides an 8 second earlier Warhorn. Your tests should have shown...

Imperial - More Health than Nord
Imperial - More Stamina which means more Damage than Nord
Imperial - More Healing than Nord
Imperial - Able to Block more than Nord

My question was if you legitimately tested and you are a good tank than what are the numbers that skewed you to believe Nord is so much better than Imperial "IN TANKING" because your original post was SOELY about tanking and in this thread you have gone off on tangents so far off your original post you come off as bitter and jealous towards Nords. Those 4k resists seem to bother you so much they mean nothing to any other class that wants to tank, resists are already easily reached the only thing they shine on is in PVP being able to wear medium and light more effectively. I mean sure Nords don't have to wear Lord Warden but all the other sets are just greedy sets that don't really help the team other than yourself.

Us Nord players have been 3rd wheel in the tanking line and have never been meta for any other DPS role, we finally get put into a good place and you try to turn a friendly buff Imperial thread into a nerf Nord thread because of what?

ok, you clearly missed the point completely. Sorry to say but I cannot help you understand. Please re-read this thread in a few days from now.

IronWooshu

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

Numbers? Math? If you left everything the same I am guessing those 4k resists were useless to you since you were most likely at cap, the DPS had to be lower since you get 500 more stamina. The only difference in the situation you explained would be the ultimate generation and I highly doubt that single passive made the biggest difference between your Nord and Imperial DK test unless you can explain better rather than making this post feel more disingenuous.

No,

the first thing where you're wrong is that 4K is useless. Quite the contrary. All of them are essential. It allows you to:

1. easily wear the 3 types of armor in a mix and still reach the cap or close to.
2. not to have to put many (or any) cp points in heavy armor.
3. easily wear monster sets without resistance on them such as e.g the awesome upcoming Stonekeeper set

from here you should be able to see the many possibilities that open up. If it were only 2000 resist the options would be alot fewer and the choice between Nord and Imperial alot harder.

The petty selfheals on the other hand as a group tank are 100% useless and completely overshadowed by the group healer.

I hope this explains well enough for you

How far do you want to move your goalposts?

My reply was not about the 4k resists being bad. I understand the uses for it probably better than you. My reply on the 4k resists was that in your original post you stated that this was about tanking. So right there a tank isn't going to wear medium or light armor. Now in your original post said you copied your DK Imperial (WHICH I ASSUME WAS ALREADY MAX RESISTS) and then race changed to Nord. Well If you did that (and follow along here), if you did that then the ONLY racial that would have made a difference between YOUR tests if you didn't change anything (You kept the conditions the same, you said so in your original post) is the ultimate regeneration.

So explain what the difference is besides an 8 second earlier Warhorn. Your tests should have shown...

Imperial - More Health than Nord
Imperial - More Stamina which means more Damage than Nord
Imperial - More Healing than Nord
Imperial - Able to Block more than Nord

My question was if you legitimately tested and you are a good tank than what are the numbers that skewed you to believe Nord is so much better than Imperial "IN TANKING" because your original post was SOELY about tanking and in this thread you have gone off on tangents so far off your original post you come off as bitter and jealous towards Nords. Those 4k resists seem to bother you so much they mean nothing to any other class that wants to tank, resists are already easily reached the only thing they shine on is in PVP being able to wear medium and light more effectively. I mean sure Nords don't have to wear Lord Warden but all the other sets are just greedy sets that don't really help the team other than yourself.

Us Nord players have been 3rd wheel in the tanking line and have never been meta for any other DPS role, we finally get put into a good place and you try to turn a friendly buff Imperial thread into a nerf Nord thread because of what?

ok, you clearly missed the point completely. Sorry to say but I cannot help you understand. Please re-read this thread in a few days from now.

No. I totally get the point of this post. You did inadequate testing if any testing at all and turned a Nord comparison thread into a slam Nord thread to make Imperial better. It's plain as daylight so I listed 4 things the Imperial has over than the Nord and it's "I can't help you".

I don't need your help until you can help yourself.

Thanks

GallantGuardian

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Imperial Suggestion
Toughness: 2k Health
Conditioning: Changed into Imperial Mettle: 1000 Magic+Stamina
Red Diamond: Restore 300 Health, Magic and Stamina upon activation of a Weapon ability. 5 second CD. Reduce the cost of Block/Bash by 5%.

Imperial becomes a well balanced race, offering something for all roles to benefit from equally.
Nord has more Tank factor and Group Utility (although I do still feel Nord does need a buff so that it's not so underwhelming in terms of DPS but that's another matter entirely)

This is the best suggestion I’ve read thus far

katorga

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

Numbers? Math? If you left everything the same I am guessing those 4k resists were useless to you since you were most likely at cap, the DPS had to be lower since you get 500 more stamina. The only difference in the situation you explained would be the ultimate generation and I highly doubt that single passive made the biggest difference between your Nord and Imperial DK test unless you can explain better rather than making this post feel more disingenuous.

No,

the first thing where you're wrong is that 4K is useless. Quite the contrary. All of them are essential. It allows you to:

1. easily wear the 3 types of armor in a mix and still reach the cap or close to.
2. not to have to put many (or any) cp points in heavy armor.
3. easily wear monster sets without resistance on them such as e.g the awesome upcoming Stonekeeper set

from here you should be able to see the many possibilities that open up. If it were only 2000 resist the options would be alot fewer and the choice between Nord and Imperial alot harder.

The petty selfheals on the other hand as a group tank are 100% useless and completely overshadowed by the group healer.

I hope this explains well enough for you

How far do you want to move your goalposts?

My reply was not about the 4k resists being bad. I understand the uses for it probably better than you. My reply on the 4k resists was that in your original post you stated that this was about tanking. So right there a tank isn't going to wear medium or light armor. Now in your original post said you copied your DK Imperial (WHICH I ASSUME WAS ALREADY MAX RESISTS) and then race changed to Nord. Well If you did that (and follow along here), if you did that then the ONLY racial that would have made a difference between YOUR tests if you didn't change anything (You kept the conditions the same, you said so in your original post) is the ultimate regeneration.

So explain what the difference is besides an 8 second earlier Warhorn. Your tests should have shown...

Imperial - More Health than Nord
Imperial - More Stamina which means more Damage than Nord
Imperial - More Healing than Nord
Imperial - Able to Block more than Nord

My question was if you legitimately tested and you are a good tank than what are the numbers that skewed you to believe Nord is so much better than Imperial "IN TANKING" because your original post was SOELY about tanking and in this thread you have gone off on tangents so far off your original post you come off as bitter and jealous towards Nords. Those 4k resists seem to bother you so much they mean nothing to any other class that wants to tank, resists are already easily reached the only thing they shine on is in PVP being able to wear medium and light more effectively. I mean sure Nords don't have to wear Lord Warden but all the other sets are just greedy sets that don't really help the team other than yourself.

Us Nord players have been 3rd wheel in the tanking line and have never been meta for any other DPS role, we finally get put into a good place and you try to turn a friendly buff Imperial thread into a nerf Nord thread because of what?

ok, you clearly missed the point completely. Sorry to say but I cannot help you understand. Please re-read this thread in a few days from now.

I think the racial passives are a done deal.

I hate to be cynical, but the point is to mix up the meta. 2-3 DLC's from now there will be a large enough population of Nords enough calls of Nord OP that they can nerf them and start the cycle again. Seems to be common practice. If you remember Resto staff had a 10% damage bonus. ZOS completely removed it as OP. A year or so later, boom 8% damage bonus on destro.

Has all sorts of benefits from ZOS's perspective. Makes them look responsive to the players. Shakes up the meta. Generates player engagement again. And likely generates some race change sales from the min/max sub-population. It is that constant class/build churn, and the player ecosystem that goes with it, that keeps these sorts of games going.

IronWooshu

katorga wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

Numbers? Math? If you left everything the same I am guessing those 4k resists were useless to you since you were most likely at cap, the DPS had to be lower since you get 500 more stamina. The only difference in the situation you explained would be the ultimate generation and I highly doubt that single passive made the biggest difference between your Nord and Imperial DK test unless you can explain better rather than making this post feel more disingenuous.

No,

the first thing where you're wrong is that 4K is useless. Quite the contrary. All of them are essential. It allows you to:

1. easily wear the 3 types of armor in a mix and still reach the cap or close to.
2. not to have to put many (or any) cp points in heavy armor.
3. easily wear monster sets without resistance on them such as e.g the awesome upcoming Stonekeeper set

from here you should be able to see the many possibilities that open up. If it were only 2000 resist the options would be alot fewer and the choice between Nord and Imperial alot harder.

The petty selfheals on the other hand as a group tank are 100% useless and completely overshadowed by the group healer.

I hope this explains well enough for you

How far do you want to move your goalposts?

My reply was not about the 4k resists being bad. I understand the uses for it probably better than you. My reply on the 4k resists was that in your original post you stated that this was about tanking. So right there a tank isn't going to wear medium or light armor. Now in your original post said you copied your DK Imperial (WHICH I ASSUME WAS ALREADY MAX RESISTS) and then race changed to Nord. Well If you did that (and follow along here), if you did that then the ONLY racial that would have made a difference between YOUR tests if you didn't change anything (You kept the conditions the same, you said so in your original post) is the ultimate regeneration.

So explain what the difference is besides an 8 second earlier Warhorn. Your tests should have shown...

Imperial - More Health than Nord
Imperial - More Stamina which means more Damage than Nord
Imperial - More Healing than Nord
Imperial - Able to Block more than Nord

My question was if you legitimately tested and you are a good tank than what are the numbers that skewed you to believe Nord is so much better than Imperial "IN TANKING" because your original post was SOELY about tanking and in this thread you have gone off on tangents so far off your original post you come off as bitter and jealous towards Nords. Those 4k resists seem to bother you so much they mean nothing to any other class that wants to tank, resists are already easily reached the only thing they shine on is in PVP being able to wear medium and light more effectively. I mean sure Nords don't have to wear Lord Warden but all the other sets are just greedy sets that don't really help the team other than yourself.

Us Nord players have been 3rd wheel in the tanking line and have never been meta for any other DPS role, we finally get put into a good place and you try to turn a friendly buff Imperial thread into a nerf Nord thread because of what?

ok, you clearly missed the point completely. Sorry to say but I cannot help you understand. Please re-read this thread in a few days from now.

I think the racial passives are a done deal.

I hate to be cynical, but the point is to mix up the meta. 2-3 DLC's from now there will be a large enough population of Nords enough calls of Nord OP that they can nerf them and start the cycle again. Seems to be common practice. If you remember Resto staff had a 10% damage bonus. ZOS completely removed it as OP. A year or so later, boom 8% damage bonus on destro.

Has all sorts of benefits from ZOS's perspective. Makes them look responsive to the players. Shakes up the meta. Generates player engagement again. And likely generates some race change sales from the min/max sub-population. It is that constant class/build churn, and the player ecosystem that goes with it, that keeps these sorts of games going.

Nord won't be the goto race and I doubt the population of Nords increase, Argonians will still make good tanks, Bretons have unreal sustain and will make good magicka tanks, Redguard will make BiS stamina tanks being able to permablock, Nord has no DPS so the PVE DPS players won't be Nord.. Nord will shine in PVP and I am not even sure that will be big enough to warrant massive changes to Nord.

You all worry too much and put too much stock into ultimate generation like its superior to all.. its unique and thats the only difference.

Nord_Raseri

nord's have been bottom of the barrel for years and now everyone wants to nerf nords. *** off

Drdeath20

Spin to win with an imperial in a crowd and that red diamond passive is gonna proc far too often.

profundidob16_ESO

katorga wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

dear devs,

my Imperial DK Tank on NA live servers got copied to PTS and as such I took it into the new vet DLC dungeons. After getting a good feel for the new dungeons and dmge load on me I decided to buy a race change (to Nord) on PTS and test the same again while keeping all other conditions roughly the same.

I can now confirm what was theorized already before: Nord racials outperform Imperial by far.

4K resist, +2500stats and auto ultiregen alltogether (Nord) greatly outperform +4000stats and 5% additional block cost reduction (Imperial)as it stands. The imperial small 15%chance selfheal is useless and negletable. It could easily be left out.

If imperial had +6000 instead of +4000 stats I would have a much tougher time choosing between both for instance. Same if Imperial got their 15% selfheal replaced by e.g +2000 resistances.

Alternatively if Nord only had +2000 resist instead of +4000 I would also have a tougher time choosing.

The current situation feels wrong and if this stays this way I can see every tank respec to Nord

Numbers? Math? If you left everything the same I am guessing those 4k resists were useless to you since you were most likely at cap, the DPS had to be lower since you get 500 more stamina. The only difference in the situation you explained would be the ultimate generation and I highly doubt that single passive made the biggest difference between your Nord and Imperial DK test unless you can explain better rather than making this post feel more disingenuous.

No,

the first thing where you're wrong is that 4K is useless. Quite the contrary. All of them are essential. It allows you to:

1. easily wear the 3 types of armor in a mix and still reach the cap or close to.
2. not to have to put many (or any) cp points in heavy armor.
3. easily wear monster sets without resistance on them such as e.g the awesome upcoming Stonekeeper set

from here you should be able to see the many possibilities that open up. If it were only 2000 resist the options would be alot fewer and the choice between Nord and Imperial alot harder.

The petty selfheals on the other hand as a group tank are 100% useless and completely overshadowed by the group healer.

I hope this explains well enough for you

How far do you want to move your goalposts?

My reply was not about the 4k resists being bad. I understand the uses for it probably better than you. My reply on the 4k resists was that in your original post you stated that this was about tanking. So right there a tank isn't going to wear medium or light armor. Now in your original post said you copied your DK Imperial (WHICH I ASSUME WAS ALREADY MAX RESISTS) and then race changed to Nord. Well If you did that (and follow along here), if you did that then the ONLY racial that would have made a difference between YOUR tests if you didn't change anything (You kept the conditions the same, you said so in your original post) is the ultimate regeneration.

So explain what the difference is besides an 8 second earlier Warhorn. Your tests should have shown...

Imperial - More Health than Nord
Imperial - More Stamina which means more Damage than Nord
Imperial - More Healing than Nord
Imperial - Able to Block more than Nord

My question was if you legitimately tested and you are a good tank than what are the numbers that skewed you to believe Nord is so much better than Imperial "IN TANKING" because your original post was SOELY about tanking and in this thread you have gone off on tangents so far off your original post you come off as bitter and jealous towards Nords. Those 4k resists seem to bother you so much they mean nothing to any other class that wants to tank, resists are already easily reached the only thing they shine on is in PVP being able to wear medium and light more effectively. I mean sure Nords don't have to wear Lord Warden but all the other sets are just greedy sets that don't really help the team other than yourself.

Us Nord players have been 3rd wheel in the tanking line and have never been meta for any other DPS role, we finally get put into a good place and you try to turn a friendly buff Imperial thread into a nerf Nord thread because of what?

ok, you clearly missed the point completely. Sorry to say but I cannot help you understand. Please re-read this thread in a few days from now.

I think the racial passives are a done deal.

I hate to be cynical, but the point is to mix up the meta. 2-3 DLC's from now there will be a large enough population of Nords enough calls of Nord OP that they can nerf them and start the cycle again. Seems to be common practice. If you remember Resto staff had a 10% damage bonus. ZOS completely removed it as OP. A year or so later, boom 8% damage bonus on destro.

Has all sorts of benefits from ZOS's perspective. Makes them look responsive to the players. Shakes up the meta. Generates player engagement again. And likely generates some race change sales from the min/max sub-population. It is that constant class/build churn, and the player ecosystem that goes with it, that keeps these sorts of games going.

agreed, that's indeed what it looks like

usmcjdking

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I very firmly believe that Nord shouldn't be receiving so much resists from their buff. They're getting about 4k to both spell and physical resist. It should be dropped to one or the other, or both values toned down.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I very firmly believe that Nord shouldn't be receiving so much resists from their buff. They're getting about 4k to both spell and physical resist. It should be dropped to one or the other, or both values toned down.

It's not much different than live.

JPcrazysquirrel3

I'm glad that way back when I made my tanks, I chose Nord. \

At least I won't have to buy race change tokens for those two toons!

DisgracefulMind

usmcjdking wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I very firmly believe that Nord shouldn't be receiving so much resists from their buff. They're getting about 4k to both spell and physical resist. It should be dropped to one or the other, or both values toned down.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I very firmly believe that Nord shouldn't be receiving so much resists from their buff. They're getting about 4k to both spell and physical resist. It should be dropped to one or the other, or both values toned down.

It's not much different than live.

And my point still stands when you add the buffs.

commdt

But please dont give Imperial max mana and don't lower max stamina below +1500, it will hurt tanks. Restoring mana would be perfect though