Stam DK - how about a stam morph for Lava Whip?

md3788

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Dude i proved in the post You quote that claw as spammable is a thing. Of course claw is a good spammable , very good I would say. It's not a garbage when compared to other spammables just look at the parse I did with crushing weapons , DPS is the same while sustain is much worse and crushing weapon have dmg and cost comparable to supprise attack on stamblade so claw is definietly not a garbage when compared to other class stamina spammable abilities. Your post sounds like You are blind and cannot see results I posted above or You simply dont understand what You're reading and looking at. It's funny how stam dks actually have decent spammable ability but refuse to use it because of that feeling that if they'll spam it they'll loose "insane DoT dmg". Also I think You do not understand why people spams rending since murkmire.

I don't think you understand. You have to utilize a skill in a way that was unintentional, spec into direct damage, wear kraghs and try to brag that it's a decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS. I hit 50 with a Stam warden that wasn't completely leveled. I don't think you understand how far behind you are on DPS parses. Even your build's "spammable" is a quarter of what a surprise attack can do. Just because you are happy with the sad state a SDK is doesn't mean you are right.

Understand that I acknowledge you can do a rotation. It's super neat but it is a gimmick just like bow bow builds and wearwolves. It can do decent damage but it isn't worth the meager damage for the effort.

You're comparing a warden with a DK. A warden has access to Minor Berserk. A DK does not. For that reason alone you should not compare the two in terms of self buffed DPS output.

Onefrkncrzypope

md3788 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Dude i proved in the post You quote that claw as spammable is a thing. Of course claw is a good spammable , very good I would say. It's not a garbage when compared to other spammables just look at the parse I did with crushing weapons , DPS is the same while sustain is much worse and crushing weapon have dmg and cost comparable to supprise attack on stamblade so claw is definietly not a garbage when compared to other class stamina spammable abilities. Your post sounds like You are blind and cannot see results I posted above or You simply dont understand what You're reading and looking at. It's funny how stam dks actually have decent spammable ability but refuse to use it because of that feeling that if they'll spam it they'll loose "insane DoT dmg". Also I think You do not understand why people spams rending since murkmire.

I don't think you understand. You have to utilize a skill in a way that was unintentional, spec into direct damage, wear kraghs and try to brag that it's a decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS. I hit 50 with a Stam warden that wasn't completely leveled. I don't think you understand how far behind you are on DPS parses. Even your build's "spammable" is a quarter of what a surprise attack can do. Just because you are happy with the sad state a SDK is doesn't mean you are right.

Understand that I acknowledge you can do a rotation. It's super neat but it is a gimmick just like bow bow builds and wearwolves. It can do decent damage but it isn't worth the meager damage for the effort.

You're comparing a warden with a DK. A warden has access to Minor Berserk. A DK does not. For that reason alone you should not compare the two in terms of self buffed DPS output.

Hadn't unlocked it. I tested right when it hit 50. Tbh, I really don't care. The claw spam is unintentional, which means it's can be changed on a whim. But yeah even if claw is a decent spammable it's not enough to even put them close to the traditional spammable classes.

Juhasow

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Dude i proved in the post You quote that claw as spammable is a thing. Of course claw is a good spammable , very good I would say. It's not a garbage when compared to other spammables just look at the parse I did with crushing weapons , DPS is the same while sustain is much worse and crushing weapon have dmg and cost comparable to supprise attack on stamblade so claw is definietly not a garbage when compared to other class stamina spammable abilities. Your post sounds like You are blind and cannot see results I posted above or You simply dont understand what You're reading and looking at. It's funny how stam dks actually have decent spammable ability but refuse to use it because of that feeling that if they'll spam it they'll loose "insane DoT dmg". Also I think You do not understand why people spams rending since murkmire.

I don't think you understand. You have to utilize a skill in a way that was unintentional, spec into direct damage, wear kraghs and try to brag that it's a decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS. I hit 50 with a Stam warden that wasn't completely leveled. I don't think you understand how far behind you are on DPS parses. Even your build's "spammable" is a quarter of what a surprise attack can do. Just because you are happy with the sad state a SDK is doesn't mean you are right.

Understand that I acknowledge you can do a rotation. It's super neat but it is a gimmick just like bow bow builds and wearwolves. It can do decent damage but it isn't worth the meager damage for the effort.

You're comparing a warden with a DK. A warden has access to Minor Berserk. A DK does not. For that reason alone you should not compare the two in terms of self buffed DPS output.

Hadn't unlocked it. I tested right when it hit 50. Tbh, I really don't care. The claw spam is unintentional, which means it's can be changed on a whim. But yeah even if claw is a decent spammable it's not enough to even put them close to the traditional spammable classes.

It's more then enough. It would be more then enough even without the fact how insane sustain claw provides. Also selfbuffed warden on live server is doing more DPS then on PTS currently.

Onefrkncrzypope

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Dude i proved in the post You quote that claw as spammable is a thing. Of course claw is a good spammable , very good I would say. It's not a garbage when compared to other spammables just look at the parse I did with crushing weapons , DPS is the same while sustain is much worse and crushing weapon have dmg and cost comparable to supprise attack on stamblade so claw is definietly not a garbage when compared to other class stamina spammable abilities. Your post sounds like You are blind and cannot see results I posted above or You simply dont understand what You're reading and looking at. It's funny how stam dks actually have decent spammable ability but refuse to use it because of that feeling that if they'll spam it they'll loose "insane DoT dmg". Also I think You do not understand why people spams rending since murkmire.

I don't think you understand. You have to utilize a skill in a way that was unintentional, spec into direct damage, wear kraghs and try to brag that it's a decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS. I hit 50 with a Stam warden that wasn't completely leveled. I don't think you understand how far behind you are on DPS parses. Even your build's "spammable" is a quarter of what a surprise attack can do. Just because you are happy with the sad state a SDK is doesn't mean you are right.

Understand that I acknowledge you can do a rotation. It's super neat but it is a gimmick just like bow bow builds and wearwolves. It can do decent damage but it isn't worth the meager damage for the effort.

You're comparing a warden with a DK. A warden has access to Minor Berserk. A DK does not. For that reason alone you should not compare the two in terms of self buffed DPS output.

Hadn't unlocked it. I tested right when it hit 50. Tbh, I really don't care. The claw spam is unintentional, which means it's can be changed on a whim. But yeah even if claw is a decent spammable it's not enough to even put them close to the traditional spammable classes.

It's more then enough. It would be more then enough even without the fact how insane sustain claw provides.

Nah still a Stam blade meta

Juhasow

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Dude i proved in the post You quote that claw as spammable is a thing. Of course claw is a good spammable , very good I would say. It's not a garbage when compared to other spammables just look at the parse I did with crushing weapons , DPS is the same while sustain is much worse and crushing weapon have dmg and cost comparable to supprise attack on stamblade so claw is definietly not a garbage when compared to other class stamina spammable abilities. Your post sounds like You are blind and cannot see results I posted above or You simply dont understand what You're reading and looking at. It's funny how stam dks actually have decent spammable ability but refuse to use it because of that feeling that if they'll spam it they'll loose "insane DoT dmg". Also I think You do not understand why people spams rending since murkmire.

I don't think you understand. You have to utilize a skill in a way that was unintentional, spec into direct damage, wear kraghs and try to brag that it's a decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS. I hit 50 with a Stam warden that wasn't completely leveled. I don't think you understand how far behind you are on DPS parses. Even your build's "spammable" is a quarter of what a surprise attack can do. Just because you are happy with the sad state a SDK is doesn't mean you are right.

Understand that I acknowledge you can do a rotation. It's super neat but it is a gimmick just like bow bow builds and wearwolves. It can do decent damage but it isn't worth the meager damage for the effort.

You're comparing a warden with a DK. A warden has access to Minor Berserk. A DK does not. For that reason alone you should not compare the two in terms of self buffed DPS output.

Hadn't unlocked it. I tested right when it hit 50. Tbh, I really don't care. The claw spam is unintentional, which means it's can be changed on a whim. But yeah even if claw is a decent spammable it's not enough to even put them close to the traditional spammable classes.

It's more then enough. It would be more then enough even without the fact how insane sustain claw provides.

Nah still a Stam blade meta

Um so that is Your argument for claw not being good as spammable ? Because stamblade is better then stam dk ? For the record if supprise attack and claw would switch with places or even if stam dk would get spammable that is copy-pasted supprise attack then stamblade would still be meta. Balance between classes have nothing to do with performance of single ability.

Juhasow

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

For this argument CP and the second set you use also comes into play. You also critted more on the spamming claw parse. But yeah regardless of what you argue there is a rule of thumb in this game for endgame trials. No spammable = garbage dps... Always.

Btw I hate stonefist spammable argument. Quit it. It's gross and annoying. Just fix flurry and buff vma a bit, maybe a s.o.m buff. Or maybe a damage passive for Christ sakes.

Crushing weapon is garbage. Cant argue that skill either.

No spammable is garbage dps - always ? You do realize that for quite some time stam dk without spammable was actually a meta in game end enviroment to the point ZoS needed to nerf off balance and this is one of the reasons that pushed stamblades on top ?

Crushing weapon is garbage ? You do realize that with light attack rotation it's basically the same DPS like supprise attack so You say that supprise attack is also garbage ? I dont know where You get Your knowledge from but it's definietly incomplete.

Onefrkncrzypope

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

For this argument CP and the second set you use also comes into play. You also critted more on the spamming claw parse. But yeah regardless of what you argue there is a rule of thumb in this game for endgame trials. No spammable = garbage dps... Always.

Btw I hate stonefist spammable argument. Quit it. It's gross and annoying. Just fix flurry and buff vma a bit, maybe a s.o.m buff. Or maybe a damage passive for Christ sakes.

Crushing weapon is garbage. Cant argue that skill either.

No spammable is garbage dps - always ? You do realize that for quite some time stam dk without spammable was actually a meta in game end enviroment to the point ZoS needed to nerf off balance and this is one of the reasons that pushed stamblades on top ?

Crushing weapon is garbage ? You do realize that with light attack rotation it's basically the same DPS like supprise attack so You say that supprise attack is also garbage ? I dont know where You get Your knowledge from but it's definietly incomplete.

Sure keyboard warrior. Sorry for insulting your claw spam religion. All hail the claw.
Btw just jumped on my nb and warden neither bird nor surprise was under 10k non crit with fracture. So if I'm missed informed and have no idea what what I'm doing guess that makes you worse than me... Kek have a good day

Kel

Qbiken wrote: »

I honestly don´t see the purpose of giving stamDK a class spammable. From a PvE perspective It´s already been shown multiple times that Venomous Claw is a suitable spammable for stamDK (even though some people don´t want to accept it) , one might consider it to be a bit off to use a DoT-ability as a spammable, but it obviously works.

When looking at it from a PvP point of view, heroic slash is a perfect spammable for stamDK(combined with a LA + Bash rotation).

Kel wrote: »

Make one whip flame and magicka, make one poison and stamina.

Seems simple.

As far as using claw as a spammable, I was always told by @xynode that the damage increased the longer it ran, so do not spam it.
You spam claw, you lose dps. The ticks increase in damage, so you'd want it to run..not spam.

^ This is what happens when you watch too much of ESO Daily........

Who is ESO Daily?

Juhasow

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

For this argument CP and the second set you use also comes into play. You also critted more on the spamming claw parse. But yeah regardless of what you argue there is a rule of thumb in this game for endgame trials. No spammable = garbage dps... Always.

Btw I hate stonefist spammable argument. Quit it. It's gross and annoying. Just fix flurry and buff vma a bit, maybe a s.o.m buff. Or maybe a damage passive for Christ sakes.

Crushing weapon is garbage. Cant argue that skill either.

No spammable is garbage dps - always ? You do realize that for quite some time stam dk without spammable was actually a meta in game end enviroment to the point ZoS needed to nerf off balance and this is one of the reasons that pushed stamblades on top ?

Crushing weapon is garbage ? You do realize that with light attack rotation it's basically the same DPS like supprise attack so You say that supprise attack is also garbage ? I dont know where You get Your knowledge from but it's definietly incomplete.

Sure keyboard warrior. Sorry for insulting your claw spam religion. All hail the claw.
Btw just jumped on my nb and warden neither bird nor surprise was under 10k non crit with fracture. So if I'm missed informed and have no idea what what I'm doing guess that makes you worse than me... Kek have a good day

The only things you're insulting are logical thinking and ability to analyze informations. But it's expectable from someone who have no idea about basic differences between the classes and base his theories on comparing different class abilities tooltips 1 to 1 without understanding full context. If You want to play the game who have the bigger...tooltip , then You should avoid constructive discussions because You just denude Your lack of knowledge and make Yourself a laughingstick for those who stil remembers secondary school math.

Ariades_swe

No

joseayalac

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

joseayalac wrote: »

Stam DK is not cheese like a magsorc. But it is very strong when played well and eats NBs for breakfast every time.

My execute is poison arrow and my spammable is pierce armor. Just experiment with your build and don't expect it to be exactly like another class but with different flavour.

If every class had a spammable, if every class had an execute, etc, then all classes would be the same just with different aesthetics. Weapon and guild skill lines would be useless.

I've mained a Stam DK in PVP and PVE for years and I have to tell everyone that says SDK is weak that they need to l2p.

Lol Pierce armor.. everyone knows inner rage is a better spammable in pve.

Lol I'm obviously talking about PVP. The skill applies major fracture, has a very low cost and very nice tooltip damage, aaand I also let my Poison Claw get to those strong final ticks.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

Aedrion wrote: »

It's on the same list unique new morphs for Mage Fury for Stamsorcs and Surprize attack for magblades.
Estimated time 3 years.

What's so unique about Veiled Strike? It starts out as Magicka and morphs into either Magicka or Stamina....

SaintSubwayy

Juhasow wrote: »

Crushing weapon is garbage ? You do realize that with light attack rotation it's basically the same DPS like supprise attack so You say that supprise attack is also garbage ? I dont know where You get Your knowledge from but it's definietly incomplete.

"same dmg" is way overstated... just the flat out base tooltip has a difference of 9%, jes one heals the other one debuffs..so about the value of the secondary effect we could argue, which one is better..but thats way to scenario specific

and thats not even taking the big costdifference into consideration...

It safe to say that Surprise Attack is atm the BEST stamina spammable in the game, for PVE in terms of DMG, and sustain and even survivability (Shadow barrier passive, you always get enough healing else your healers arent doing their job)

but the point of this Thread aint to discuss if certain spmmables are better than other, but rather to talk about stamDK, which has no class spammable
And how we could get one, what it should look like etc.
IMO stamDK doesnt need a class spammable, IF we get a good enough Weapon skill spammable, like Rapid Strikes, or Shrouded Dagger, but they are even more expensive than Crushing weapon is Atm...resulting in Calw beeing Spammed, since its the simpelst way to increase stamDK sustain....

If only Combustion passive would proc as reliable on StamDK as on magDK...
magDK on a 3mio Dummy 25 Procs...stamDK on a 6 MIo dummy 11 Procs...very badly balanced

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

. If only Combustion passive would proc as reliable on StamDK as on magDK...
magDK on a 3mio Dummy 25 Procs...stamDK on a 6 MIo dummy 11 Procs...very badly balanced

This is a combination of the fact that you get double the chance for all elemental status effects and the fact that nearly of all the damage a magdk does is fire. Make on of your dual wield charged, watch the proc rate go up. Seems balanced to me.

SaintSubwayy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. If only Combustion passive would proc as reliable on StamDK as on magDK...
magDK on a 3mio Dummy 25 Procs...stamDK on a 6 MIo dummy 11 Procs...very badly balanced

This is a combination of the fact that you get double the chance for all elemental status effects and the fact that nearly of all the damage a magdk does is fire. Make on of your dual wield charged, watch the proc rate go up. Seems balanced to me.

jeah I know, thats why Im saying the passive is underprforming for stamDK
Too few sources of Poisoned statuseffect ( avg ppl have 4 sources for it)

Forcing stamDK's to slot Charged is prob the worst thing...then you're still better off running a infused Absorb enchant

Just buff warmth passive, to also grant 100% more Chance to proc poisoned statuseffect, and it would be solven
TBH Warmth passive is probably the weakest passive in the game atm, so adding the increase chance for poisoned wont be bad at all.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. If only Combustion passive would proc as reliable on StamDK as on magDK...
magDK on a 3mio Dummy 25 Procs...stamDK on a 6 MIo dummy 11 Procs...very badly balanced

This is a combination of the fact that you get double the chance for all elemental status effects and the fact that nearly of all the damage a magdk does is fire. Make on of your dual wield charged, watch the proc rate go up. Seems balanced to me.

jeah I know, thats why Im saying the passive is underprforming for stamDK
Too few sources of Poisoned statuseffect ( avg ppl have 4 sources for it)

Forcing stamDK's to slot Charged is prob the worst thing...then you're still better off running a infused Absorb enchant

Just buff warmth passive, to also grant 100% more Chance to proc poisoned statuseffect, and it would be solven
TBH Warmth passive is probably the weakest passive in the game atm, so adding the increase chance for poisoned wont be bad at all.

Dont Stam dks get 25% lower poison skill cost? Wheres is the 25% lower fire skill cost?

SaintSubwayy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. If only Combustion passive would proc as reliable on StamDK as on magDK...
magDK on a 3mio Dummy 25 Procs...stamDK on a 6 MIo dummy 11 Procs...very badly balanced

This is a combination of the fact that you get double the chance for all elemental status effects and the fact that nearly of all the damage a magdk does is fire. Make on of your dual wield charged, watch the proc rate go up. Seems balanced to me.

jeah I know, thats why Im saying the passive is underprforming for stamDK
Too few sources of Poisoned statuseffect ( avg ppl have 4 sources for it)

Forcing stamDK's to slot Charged is prob the worst thing...then you're still better off running a infused Absorb enchant

Just buff warmth passive, to also grant 100% more Chance to proc poisoned statuseffect, and it would be solven
TBH Warmth passive is probably the weakest passive in the game atm, so adding the increase chance for poisoned wont be bad at all.

Dont Stam dks get 25% lower poison skill cost? Wheres is the 25% lower fire skill cost?

yes they do get that...thats why some ppl started using a Dot (claw) as a spammable ^^
TBF stamina skills are already way cheaper than magicka skills, so the 25% isnt much in terms of flat stam.
now you may argue why doesnt nox breath the 6% DMG , it lost with the removal of aoe poisondmg passive beeing changed to the 25% cost reduction, or give 10% poisondmg, instead of major breach etc... thats not really the point im trying to make

the combustion passive was added mainly for magDK's, since they couldnt sustain in PVE for a long time.
And it works really great on magDK's, its awesome on them.
But since they added the pasive for mag and Stam, I think it should atlest proc with a max difference of 25-50%

But looking at my numbers its somewhere arround 500% Procdifference.
3mio dummy 25 times -> if thats applied to 6mio dummy -> 50 Procs
6mio dummy on stamdk -> 11 Procs

that IMO too big of a gap for a classes Sustainpassive.
adding 100% poisoned proccchance to Warmth, and we would get about 22 Procs, still only 50% of the magicka counterpart, but okey

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

.the combustion passive was added mainly for magDK's, since they couldnt sustain in PVE for a long time

Look at my join date, I was there when vampdks rocked all the things, so I am aware of this.

As to your example, again, the passives from destro staff tree is the reason for this. Not a class thing.

SaintSubwayy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

.the combustion passive was added mainly for magDK's, since they couldnt sustain in PVE for a long time

Look at my join date, I was there when vampdks rocked all the things, so I am aware of this.

As to your example, again, the passives from destro staff tree is the reason for this. Not a class thing.

I also play this game since Beta, so no need to impress me with a Joindate
JUst didnt join the forum for a long time ^^

Yes I know the destro passive, plays a huge part in it, but lets take the 100% procchance away, and MagDK would still proc the Burning Statuseffect 20-25 times on a 6mio dummy, which is still 100% more often than poisoned procs.

so there's still abig gap between those two procs, mainly becaus eof the nature of magDK having all flamedmg Skills, and Stam DK only about 4 Poison skills.

its in stamDK's nature to have less sills which might proc Poisoned, so getting maybe a small rais ein the class passives to proc is more often doesnt sound wrong for me.
may also give stamDK the room to go for a bit more expensive spammable
Also stamina sustain gets nerfed with the enchant nerfs, adding more to the dilemma for stamDK and claw spam beeing necessary

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

.the combustion passive was added mainly for magDK's, since they couldnt sustain in PVE for a long time

Look at my join date, I was there when vampdks rocked all the things, so I am aware of this.

As to your example, again, the passives from destro staff tree is the reason for this. Not a class thing.

I also play this game since Beta, so no need to impress me with a Joindate
JUst didnt join the forum for a long time ^^

Yes I know the destro passive, plays a huge part in it, but lets take the 100% procchance away, and MagDK would still proc the Burning Statuseffect 20-25 times on a 6mio dummy, which is still 100% more often than poisoned procs.

so there's still abig gap between those two procs, mainly becaus eof the nature of magDK having all flamedmg Skills, and Stam DK only about 4 Poison skills.

its in stamDK's nature to have less sills which might proc Poisoned, so getting maybe a small rais ein the class passives to proc is more often doesnt sound wrong for me.
may also give stamDK the room to go for a bit more expensive spammable
Also stamina sustain gets nerfed with the enchant nerfs, adding more to the dilemma for stamDK and claw spam beeing necessary

I suppose I just do not see the issue, stam get cheaper poison skills and cheaper skills overlall, all Stam skills are cheaper then their magic counterparts. The way you are rambling doesn't help me understand. I think this is one of those situations of agree to disagree.

Xvorg

three reasons why not:

1- Weapon skills must be used. Giving stamDKs or stamsorcs a class spammable means your will not be using those skills. Then at least 3 lines will become pointless.

2- Stam whip will not bring anything new to the game. Just a mirror of magDK with basically the same problems. Both of them will be played EXACTLY the same.

3- Lash is crap. A stam whip will be even crappier than lash. The entire ardent flame line is crap. It is the offensive line of DK but it gives no bonus to dmg done. And even worst, those skills have a unnecessary snare associated, so, if you want a stam whip, first you need to aim for a rework on the ardent flame skill line, especially its passives.


Finally, *** the idea of class identity, if you want to trade viability for identity then you are clueless. Currently StamDK is viable, it is the best class using weapon skills. I prefer 1000 times to reinforce that concept rather than going to the poison meta ZoS has given stamDKs, which brings nothing to the table. A stam whip means we are going in the same (wrong) direction: knights using poisons. And that is far, far from the DK class identity of a knight using fire and weapons.

NobleX35

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

agree stamDK needs a Class spammable, as does sorcs.

BUt they cannot touch either morph of Whip, since both Morphs are widely used in PVE or PVP.
However they could rework the Stonefist skill, which is not a comonly used in PVE nor PVP as whip is, and rework this to a Spammable stamnia skill.
maybe make a Physical and a Poison DMG morph

Stonefist would not work as a spammable because of the Helping Hands passive. The skill would have to cost too much to compensate for the fact that you would return stamina with every cast.

well atm some ppl spam Claw, which only costs 700 Stam...so if the cost is on a fair lvl then it woul dbe sustainable I guess

The ability would need to cost a ton to because of the fact that reduce ability cost glyphs and infused jewelry traits exist. The ability could not have a 0 cost (or near 0). Which means the base cost would probably have to be around 4k at least just to compensate for Helping Hands passive and the possibility of using the reduced cost glyphs.

SaintSubwayy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

.the combustion passive was added mainly for magDK's, since they couldnt sustain in PVE for a long time

Look at my join date, I was there when vampdks rocked all the things, so I am aware of this.

As to your example, again, the passives from destro staff tree is the reason for this. Not a class thing.

I also play this game since Beta, so no need to impress me with a Joindate
JUst didnt join the forum for a long time ^^

Yes I know the destro passive, plays a huge part in it, but lets take the 100% procchance away, and MagDK would still proc the Burning Statuseffect 20-25 times on a 6mio dummy, which is still 100% more often than poisoned procs.

so there's still abig gap between those two procs, mainly becaus eof the nature of magDK having all flamedmg Skills, and Stam DK only about 4 Poison skills.

its in stamDK's nature to have less sills which might proc Poisoned, so getting maybe a small rais ein the class passives to proc is more often doesnt sound wrong for me.
may also give stamDK the room to go for a bit more expensive spammable
Also stamina sustain gets nerfed with the enchant nerfs, adding more to the dilemma for stamDK and claw spam beeing necessary

I suppose I just do not see the issue, stam get cheaper poison skills and cheaper skills overlall, all Stam skills are cheaper then their magic counterparts. The way you are rambling doesn't help me understand. I think this is one of those situations of agree to disagree.

just tried to point out, that if the passive would proc more often on sDK, then ppl would not have to be using Claw as their spammable, but could use maybe Crushing weapon, or something else. (rapid strikes, shrouded dagger or maybe even 2h)
The reason Claw is used as spammable is its very low cost, in combo with decent onhit dmg

There are 2 ways to prevent DOTs from beeing used as Spammables:
- Increase Cost to a lvl were you cannot sustain it as a Spammable
- Lower the Directdmg Part to a level where it's not worth spamming it either, and add the lost DMG to the DOT part

Changeing the World in ruin passive to be a costreduction was in my eyes just bandaiding sDK's sustain problems, since stamskills are already cheap...yet DK needed buff to their sustain back then

If they would have kept the Old passive, even touh it was weak for stamDK, and added more procchance to poisoned, then DK's could also now sustain a overall more expensive rotation, ending up in better DPS and closing the gap to Stamblades a little bit more.

We'll see how it turns out with the sustain nerfes due to nerfing Infused on DW, and the racial changes which are beehing tweaked for PTS Patch 4.3.2.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

just tried to point out, that if the passive would proc more often on sDK, then ppl would not have to be using Claw as their spammable, but could use maybe Crushing weapon, or something else

this the thing buddy, that would not change what @Juhasow has shown in this thread, in this awesome post, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5776150/#Comment_5776150, that is you get the same dps or even better with using claw as a spammable as with claw+ crushing. getting more stam back will not change that.

There are 2 ways to prevent DOTs from beeing used as Spammables:

what makes you want this? i just dont see makes what this.

Juhasow

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Crushing weapon is garbage ? You do realize that with light attack rotation it's basically the same DPS like supprise attack so You say that supprise attack is also garbage ? I dont know where You get Your knowledge from but it's definietly incomplete.

"same dmg" is way overstated... just the flat out base tooltip has a difference of 9%, jes one heals the other one debuffs..so about the value of the secondary effect we could argue, which one is better..but thats way to scenario specific

and thats not even taking the big costdifference into consideration...

It safe to say that Surprise Attack is atm the BEST stamina spammable in the game, for PVE in terms of DMG, and sustain and even survivability (Shadow barrier passive, you always get enough healing else your healers arent doing their job)

but the point of this Thread aint to discuss if certain spmmables are better than other, but rather to talk about stamDK, which has no class spammable
And how we could get one, what it should look like etc.
IMO stamDK doesnt need a class spammable, IF we get a good enough Weapon skill spammable, like Rapid Strikes, or Shrouded Dagger, but they are even more expensive than Crushing weapon is Atm...resulting in Calw beeing Spammed, since its the simpelst way to increase stamDK sustain....

If only Combustion passive would proc as reliable on StamDK as on magDK...
magDK on a 3mio Dummy 25 Procs...stamDK on a 6 MIo dummy 11 Procs...very badly balanced

You forgot about the passive from psijic order called spell orb that makes dmg of crushing weapon and supprise attack almost the same or even makes crushing weapon winning by a bit and passive that lowers cost of all psijic order abilities by 15% which also makes cost of supprise attack and crushing weapon almost the same with crushing weapon slightly winning after adding medium armor passive cost reduction. Crushing weapon from damage perstective is slightly better spammable then supprise attack. It's another missconception many people belives that supprise attack is the best damage spammable always and everywhere. Just look here on those two simple tests where I spammed both abilities on 3m dummy with same gear and both got similar crit ratios (I also used mark to provide fracture) You see when You add dmg of spell orb the overall dmg from crushing weapon then DPS is ~500 higher plus crushing weapon cost is 1928 when supprise attack cost 1974.

Rarid strikes are not more expensive then crushing weapons. It cost 1917 when crushing cost 1928. Stam dk sustasin is in ok spot already due to 25% cost reduction on poison dmg abilities and frankly because claw was extremly cheap ability even before , that change touched claw the least. Poison injection and noxious breath got their costs reduced by way more then claw. Claw is simply just good as spammable and low cost is just added bonus.

Combustion being weaker on stamina dk then on magicka is mostly due to destruction staff doubling the chance to proc burning status effect and fact mag dk simply uses more flame dmg abilities then stam dk is using poison dmg ones. To be fair if anything I would like to see flames of oblivion having flame or poison dmg orb proccing based on which resource is higher similar to what You get with passives like burning light on templar.

SaintSubwayy

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

just tried to point out, that if the passive would proc more often on sDK, then ppl would not have to be using Claw as their spammable, but could use maybe Crushing weapon, or something else

this the thing buddy, that would not change what @Juhasow has shown in this thread, in this awesome post, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5776150/#Comment_5776150, that is you get the same dps or even better with using claw as a spammable as with claw+ crushing. getting more stam back will not change that.

There are 2 ways to prevent DOTs from beeing used as Spammables:

what makes you want this? i just dont see why you would.

why I want DOTs to be unusable as Spammabels...well because they are DOTs, meant do deal their DMG over a Duration
It's nonsense to have Spammable skills, which are not used because the Initial DMG from Dots is as High as the spammable DMG, while the Dots are cheaper...making Spammable skills obsolete.

Surpriseattack is in a good spot in terms of DMG and Cost imo...every spammable should aim to be similar in DMG and cost to Surprise attack (not the same ofc, each skill needs his identity and unique passive or secondary effects)

Furthermore Dots should be higher in Costs, since you only cast them once and let them work.

Haven seed Juhas thread yet, gona check it out thx

SaintSubwayy

Juhasow wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Crushing weapon is garbage ? You do realize that with light attack rotation it's basically the same DPS like supprise attack so You say that supprise attack is also garbage ? I dont know where You get Your knowledge from but it's definietly incomplete.

"same dmg" is way overstated... just the flat out base tooltip has a difference of 9%, jes one heals the other one debuffs..so about the value of the secondary effect we could argue, which one is better..but thats way to scenario specific

and thats not even taking the big costdifference into consideration...

It safe to say that Surprise Attack is atm the BEST stamina spammable in the game, for PVE in terms of DMG, and sustain and even survivability (Shadow barrier passive, you always get enough healing else your healers arent doing their job)

but the point of this Thread aint to discuss if certain spmmables are better than other, but rather to talk about stamDK, which has no class spammable
And how we could get one, what it should look like etc.
IMO stamDK doesnt need a class spammable, IF we get a good enough Weapon skill spammable, like Rapid Strikes, or Shrouded Dagger, but they are even more expensive than Crushing weapon is Atm...resulting in Calw beeing Spammed, since its the simpelst way to increase stamDK sustain....

If only Combustion passive would proc as reliable on StamDK as on magDK...
magDK on a 3mio Dummy 25 Procs...stamDK on a 6 MIo dummy 11 Procs...very badly balanced

You forgot about the passive from psijic order called spell orb that makes dmg of crushing weapon and supprise attack almost the same or even makes crushing weapon winning by a bit and passive that lowers cost of all psijic order abilities by 15% which also makes cost of supprise attack and crushing weapon almost the same with crushing weapon slightly winning after adding medium armor passive cost reduction. Crushing weapon from damage perstective is slightly better spammable then supprise attack. It's another missconception many people belives that supprise attack is the best damage spammable always and everywhere. Just look here on those two simple tests where I spammed both abilities on 3m dummy with same gear and both got similar crit ratios (I also used mark to provide fracture) You see when You add dmg of spell orb the overall dmg from crushing weapon then DPS is ~500 higher plus crushing weapon cost is 1928 when supprise attack cost 1974.

Rarid strikes are not more expensive then crushing weapons. It cost 1917 when crushing cost 1928. Stam dk sustasin is in ok spot already due to 25% cost reduction on poison dmg abilities and frankly because claw was extremly cheap ability even before , that change touched claw the least. Poison injection and noxious breath got their costs reduced by way more then claw. Claw is simply just good as spammable and low cost is just added bonus.

Combustion being weaker on stamina dk then on magicka is mostly due to destruction staff doubling the chance to proc burning status effect and fact mag dk simply uses more flame dmg abilities then stam dk is using poison dmg ones. To be fair if anything I would like to see flames of oblivion having flame or poison dmg orb proccing based on which resource is higher similar to what You get with passives like burning light on templar.

I assume you only used Spammable and LA, with the occasional Mark right?

Therefore the 900 DMG from orbs is procced way to often, compared to a normal Rotation, where you'd swap to backbar and do other skills inbetween....so reduceing this DMG in the stat by approx 40-50% would end up with the skills beeing even right?

and lets not include crits here, since they are also quite a chunck more on the CW parse than on the SA Parse
Furthermore you cannot really controll which boss or add is getting hit by the Orb (on the dummy ofc it hits the dummy, but in a trial there's rarely nothing else it can hit)

Can you do the same thing just with Claw and LA for DK, lets compare the DMG from CW, SA and Claw spam

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

another great post by @Juhasow , another woosh of the point by another reader. you bring the quality content @Juhasow, don't stop, please.

Juhasow

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Crushing weapon is garbage ? You do realize that with light attack rotation it's basically the same DPS like supprise attack so You say that supprise attack is also garbage ? I dont know where You get Your knowledge from but it's definietly incomplete.

"same dmg" is way overstated... just the flat out base tooltip has a difference of 9%, jes one heals the other one debuffs..so about the value of the secondary effect we could argue, which one is better..but thats way to scenario specific

and thats not even taking the big costdifference into consideration...

It safe to say that Surprise Attack is atm the BEST stamina spammable in the game, for PVE in terms of DMG, and sustain and even survivability (Shadow barrier passive, you always get enough healing else your healers arent doing their job)

but the point of this Thread aint to discuss if certain spmmables are better than other, but rather to talk about stamDK, which has no class spammable
And how we could get one, what it should look like etc.
IMO stamDK doesnt need a class spammable, IF we get a good enough Weapon skill spammable, like Rapid Strikes, or Shrouded Dagger, but they are even more expensive than Crushing weapon is Atm...resulting in Calw beeing Spammed, since its the simpelst way to increase stamDK sustain....

If only Combustion passive would proc as reliable on StamDK as on magDK...
magDK on a 3mio Dummy 25 Procs...stamDK on a 6 MIo dummy 11 Procs...very badly balanced

You forgot about the passive from psijic order called spell orb that makes dmg of crushing weapon and supprise attack almost the same or even makes crushing weapon winning by a bit and passive that lowers cost of all psijic order abilities by 15% which also makes cost of supprise attack and crushing weapon almost the same with crushing weapon slightly winning after adding medium armor passive cost reduction. Crushing weapon from damage perstective is slightly better spammable then supprise attack. It's another missconception many people belives that supprise attack is the best damage spammable always and everywhere. Just look here on those two simple tests where I spammed both abilities on 3m dummy with same gear and both got similar crit ratios (I also used mark to provide fracture) You see when You add dmg of spell orb the overall dmg from crushing weapon then DPS is ~500 higher plus crushing weapon cost is 1928 when supprise attack cost 1974.

Rarid strikes are not more expensive then crushing weapons. It cost 1917 when crushing cost 1928. Stam dk sustasin is in ok spot already due to 25% cost reduction on poison dmg abilities and frankly because claw was extremly cheap ability even before , that change touched claw the least. Poison injection and noxious breath got their costs reduced by way more then claw. Claw is simply just good as spammable and low cost is just added bonus.

Combustion being weaker on stamina dk then on magicka is mostly due to destruction staff doubling the chance to proc burning status effect and fact mag dk simply uses more flame dmg abilities then stam dk is using poison dmg ones. To be fair if anything I would like to see flames of oblivion having flame or poison dmg orb proccing based on which resource is higher similar to what You get with passives like burning light on templar.

I assume you only used Spammable and LA, with the occasional Mark right?

Therefore the 900 DMG from orbs is procced way to often, compared to a normal Rotation, where you'd swap to backbar and do other skills inbetween....so reduceing this DMG in the stat by approx 40-50% would end up with the skills beeing even right?

and lets not include crits here, since they are also quite a chunck more on the CW parse than on the SA Parse
Furthermore you cannot really controll which boss or add is getting hit by the Orb (on the dummy ofc it hits the dummy, but in a trial there's rarely nothing else it can hit)

Can you do the same thing just with Claw and LA for DK, lets compare the DMG from CW, SA and Claw spam

Umm no ? Seriously I got a feeling many people on forum have basic lacks of mathematic knowledge. If You would use crushing weapon less then the same would happen for supprise attack so spell orb DPS would be proportianly lowered and still proportion between supprise attack and crushing weapon+spell orb would be excatly the same. If during regular rotation You use supprise attack lets say 25 times then You would use also crushing weapon 25 times which would result in 5 spell orb procs so the proportion between that is the same as if You would use crushing weapon and supprise attack 100 times and get 20 spell orb procs so You increased amount of uses 4 times then dmg of spell orb also got increased 4 times. Spell orb will be always procing 1 time out of 5 uses of crushing weapon so its DPS proportionally to DPS of crushing weapon will be always the same resulting with always having same proportional DPS difference to supprise attack. Seriously this is ground school level of math we're talking here.

Crits are impoirtant factor since You need to have similar crit ratio on abilities You're comparing 1 to 1 to have clear view. If I would have 40% crit on supprise attack rotation and 80% crit on crushing weapon rotation comparing the results would be pointless that's why I picked 2 parses where crits were pretty similar. That "quite a chunk" is 5% when we're talking abour average 70% crit chance so it's acceptable margin of error with over 100 uses for each ability. Usually orb is hitting the nearest target and because both supprise attack and crushing weapon will require 5 meters to be used it'll be main target that will get hit by orb most of the time plus even if it wont that dmg wont dissapear in vacuum of space it'll just appear on another target but it'll still contribute to overall amount of dmg done.

I actually did comparison of rotation with crushing weapon as spammable and claw as spammable for stam dk and posted results in that thread.

NyassaV

It's not going to happen, sorry.

StamWhip is a meme and nothing more