Stam DK - how about a stam morph for Lava Whip?

John_Falstaff

@Juhasow , of course it does lower the damage. You don't seem to understand: not using Claw as a spammable, implies using another spammable. Because, you know, spammable is a thing you pad rotation with when your DoTs are running. The more Claw casts you make, the fewer actual DoT ticks you get, and when you cast it every second... you get none of those sweet Claw DoT ticks, because you use Claw as a spammable. It's that simple. Conversely, if you use Claw as a DoT, you make Claw cast and pad the remaining time with an actual spammable casts. Sorry, but you don't seem to understand how rotation works. ^^

Onefrkncrzypope

For this argument CP and the second set you use also comes into play. You also critted more on the spamming claw parse. But yeah regardless of what you argue there is a rule of thumb in this game for endgame trials. No spammable = garbage dps... Always.

Btw I hate stonefist spammable argument. Quit it. It's gross and annoying. Just fix flurry and buff vma a bit, maybe a s.o.m buff. Or maybe a damage passive for Christ sakes.

Crushing weapon is garbage. Cant argue that skill either.

John_Falstaff

@Onefrkncrzypope , well it doesn't have to be stonefist. The idea of having some spammable from that skill line appeals to me because it would be a way for stamDK to proc Mountain's Blessing. It's silly that having it in this skill line basically loads DK tanks with another group buff, while DK damage dealers don't have an easy way to give it to the group. I'd be equally okay with having Minor Brutality given by Ardent Flame abilities - at least some way for DDs to give it.

And comes without saying that I'd welcome if ZOS fixed Flurry, made it less impractical and buffed vMA. But well, beggars can't be choosers.

Juhasow

@John_Falstaff but not spamming claw lowers both the DoT and direct dmg of claw. And here we go again into endless loop of the same arguments. If You'll use claw as DoT refreshed every 10 seconds and other spammable with it Your DoT dmg from claw will be lower and direct dmg part of claw will be lower so that spammable ability is just there to compensate the loss for much higher cost. Yes it may compensate for more damage but because it'll drain You out of resources faster fact You'll have to heavy attack here and there will lower Your DPS and that again brings us to insanely low cost of claw which makes it viable spammable.

John_Falstaff

@Juhasow , nope. You keep missing the point. Using Claw as spammable reduces the time it runs as a DoT. If all you do is spam Claw - you get no DoT. You only get spammable. Again, it's that simple. DoT, by definition, is damage over time - you cast once, you pay once, it runs over the course of time, and during that time, you're free to do something else... like, you guessed it, cast spammable. This is ABCs of damage dealing: you apply DoTs, and then you pad remaining time with spammable, having both spammable damage instances, and DoT ticks running independently. You spam Claw? You get no DoT to run in parallel with your spammable casts. You use Claw as a DoT? You get a sum of Claw ticks, and 'ticks' of spammable casts. That's it.

And you're trying to take things to sustain again, which I already addressed. I rest my case, I don't think you perceive the difference between a spammable and a DoT. I explained in every way I could imagine.

Onefrkncrzypope

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff but not spamming claw lowers both the DoT and direct dmg of claw. And here we go again into endless loop of the same arguments. If You'll use claw as DoT refreshed every 10 seconds and other spammable with it Your DoT dmg from claw will be lower and direct dmg part of claw will be lower so that spammable ability is just there to compensate the loss for much higher cost. Yes it may compensate for more but because it'll drain You out of resources faster fact You'll have to heavy attack here and there will lower Your DPS and that again brings us to insanely low cost of claw which makes it viable spammable.

You critted 20% more in you spam parse so DPS and it's average would be scewed.

Juhasow

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff but not spamming claw lowers both the DoT and direct dmg of claw. And here we go again into endless loop of the same arguments. If You'll use claw as DoT refreshed every 10 seconds and other spammable with it Your DoT dmg from claw will be lower and direct dmg part of claw will be lower so that spammable ability is just there to compensate the loss for much higher cost. Yes it may compensate for more but because it'll drain You out of resources faster fact You'll have to heavy attack here and there will lower Your DPS and that again brings us to insanely low cost of claw which makes it viable spammable.

You critted 20% more in you spam parse so DPS and it's average would be scewed.

You are comparing wrong parts of the parses. Look once again at both of them. In one parse claw DoT had 26% in 2nd 34% crit so it is pretty close.

Juhasow

@John_Falstaff You start to be boring. You just want to look at this from 1 particular angle that will prove Your point. Yes claw runs for shorter period of time as a DoT but it deals more dot ticks and more direct dmg ticks thus is deal way more dmg then it would deal just as a refreshable DoT used every 10 seconds and that additional dmg surplus creates DPS that compensates for not using different spammable. You seem to miss that claw also have that direct dmg component which when spammed deals few times higher dmg then it would be when just refreshed every 10 seconds so at the end You get more DoT dmg and more direct dmg out of claw spam then You would get just by refreshing it every 10 seconds and that reserve of dmg is the actual replacement for DPS of spammable ability You would use instead of claw. Then very low cost and increased DPS from poison status effect also comes to play. It's that simple.

We can continue to exchange the same arguments back and forward or You can just go and test for Yourself DPS of stam DK when You're using ability like crushing weapon or shourded dagger vs using claw as spammable and You'll see there will be no DPS difference but huge sustain difference. Until then I dont see the point in futile conversation because You simply refuse to test stuff.

BadShogun

@Juhasow

You're a very combative, angry sounding person. An attitude like that is not going to get you very far in life.

John_Falstaff

@Juhasow , told you, I rest my case. If someone doesn't understand difference between one (1) skill running, and two (2) skills running in parallel - it's beyond help. I also do plenty of testing, even though one only needs to think a little to realize that recasting DoTs early (as opposed to letting them run out while adding spammable damage on top of them) is a damage loss. Bottom line, I don't need to continue exchanging arguments with you; I've expressed myself enough to give others enough insight to keep ignoring your flawed experiments and reasoning. If you want to keep trying to convince others that spamming a dot is more damage than having a dot and spamming something (even more damaging than dot's first cast) while it runs - by all means; will just be making fool of yourself, but oh well, everyone has the right to make fool of themselves, free country.

Juhasow

BadShogun wrote: »

@Juhasow

You're a very combative, angry sounding person. An attitude like that is not going to get you very far in life.

Maybe I am. Or maybe I am just bored of repeating the same argument 10 times and as response getting the same argument just in different spelling.

Juhasow

@John_Falstaff and I told You that using claw as spammable give You more DPS then using it as a DoT. You simply want to ignore that because it ruins Your perfect illusion that claw needs to be used as a DoT. Using claw as spammable gives You more dmg out of it then using it as a DoT thus that dmg surplus compensates for not using other spammable ability. You simply want to ignore fact that claw is not only a DoT but also very cheap direct dmg instant cast ability because it fits Your flawed logic. Is it dmg loss when compared 1:1 ? Possibly but a very small one and it gets compensated because You also get higher DPS out of poisoned status effect when You spam claw plus thanks to insane sustain You're getting Your DPS is going up because You can keep full light attack rotation. You simply want to ignore fact that claw is not only a DoT but also very cheap direct dmg instant cast ability (and when used as such DPS portion of DoT component is going up) because it fits Your flawed logic. Those tests I've made and posted were just an raw example I made yesterday because I couldnt do full tests due to poor performance game had yesterday and basically it would take me like 2 hours to relog and get gear from other character but even that simple test shows that Your logic is flawed. Stam whip or any other stamina spammable on dk will not happen because stam dk dont need it and frankly if he would get it that could break the balance. Simple.

Juhasow

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

Onefrkncrzypope

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Anti_Virus

Tbh I would be happy with a rework of one of the 2h uppercut morphs into a spammable non cast time instant damage morph with slightly less damage.

Onefrkncrzypope

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Tbh I would be happy with a rework of one of the 2h uppercut morphs into a spammable non cast time instant damage morph with slightly less damage.

If 2h was viable for pve ye

Juhasow

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Dude i proved in the post You quote that claw as spammable is a thing. Of course claw is a good spammable , very good I would say. It's not a garbage when compared to other spammables just look at the parse I did with crushing weapons , DPS is the same while sustain is much worse and crushing weapon have dmg and cost comparable to supprise attack on stamblade so claw is definietly not a garbage when compared to other class stamina spammable abilities. Your post sounds like You are blind and cannot see results I posted above or You simply dont understand what You're reading and looking at. It's funny how stam dks actually have decent spammable ability but refuse to use it because of that feeling that if they'll spam it they'll loose "insane DoT dmg". Also I think You do not understand why people spams rending since murkmire.

Onefrkncrzypope

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Dude i proved in the post You quote that claw as spammable is a thing. Of course claw is a good spammable , very good I would say. It's not a garbage when compared to other spammables just look at the parse I did with crushing weapons , DPS is the same while sustain is much worse and crushing weapon have dmg and cost comparable to supprise attack on stamblade so claw is definietly not a garbage when compared to other class stamina spammable abilities. Your post sounds like You are blind and cannot see results I posted above or You simply dont understand what You're reading and looking at. It's funny how stam dks actually have decent spammable ability but refuse to use it because of that feeling that if they'll spam it they'll loose "insane DoT dmg". Also I think You do not understand why people spams rending since murkmire.

I don't think you understand. You have to utilize a skill in a way that was unintentional, spec into direct damage, wear kraghs and try to brag that it's a decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS. I hit 50 with a Stam warden that wasn't completely leveled. I don't think you understand how far behind you are on DPS parses. Even your build's "spammable" is a quarter of what a surprise attack can do. Just because you are happy with the sad state a SDK is doesn't mean you are right.

Understand that I acknowledge you can do a rotation. It's super neat but it is a gimmick just like bow bow builds and wearwolves. It can do decent damage but it isn't worth the meager damage for the effort.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Juhasow good stuff, thank you for taking the time to parse it out.

. decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS.

Thing is buddy, he was testing the dps difference between 2 different skills, the only thing that ought to change is the stuff that has relevance to those skills, so the actual DPS of the parse, does not matter, just that in both parses, everything is the same, except those skills. Simple.

joseayalac

Stam DK is not cheese like a magsorc. But it is very strong when played well and eats NBs for breakfast every time.

My execute is poison arrow and my spammable is pierce armor. Just experiment with your build and don't expect it to be exactly like another class but with different flavour.

If every class had a spammable, if every class had an execute, etc, then all classes would be the same just with different aesthetics. Weapon and guild skill lines would be useless.

I've mained a Stam DK in PVP and PVE for years and I have to tell everyone that says SDK is weak that they need to l2p.

BadShogun

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I don't think you understand. You have to utilize a skill in a way that was unintentional, spec into direct damage, wear kraghs and try to brag that it's a decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS. I hit 50 with a Stam warden that wasn't completely leveled. I don't think you understand how far behind you are on DPS parses. Even your build's "spammable" is a quarter of what a surprise attack can do. Just because you are happy with the sad state a SDK is doesn't mean you are right.

Understand that I acknowledge you can do a rotation. It's super neat but it is a gimmick just like bow bow builds and wearwolves. It can do decent damage but it isn't worth the meager damage for the effort.

This man gets it. The point of this post was to start a discussion about one way to improve the DPS capabilities of the StamDK, which in its current form feels like a poorly designed afterthought. Hence a skill designed to be a damage over time being our de facto spammable, whether it's venemous claw, or rending slashes.

Stamina DD's that have class spammables - warden being a good example of a class that has high damage potential, while not relying on an OP execute HAS a class spammable skill. The Class specific one - Subterranean Assault ( shalks ) does more damage on their parses than Relequen OR vMA bow endless hail. And guess what? They still HAVE Relequen and vMA bow endless hail! They don't need to sacrifice it! They are at least 10% ahead of StamDK's in every PVE scenario that stam classes are even welcome.

Why do we have to be happy and stuck with a class that is simply lacking in the basics required to bring it to the same level as other classes that have real, dedicated, designed to be spammables?

I chose to play a DK because I enjoyed the concept of it - reminded me of Skyrim. Now that I am getting into higher difficulty vet trials, I am regretting my choice because the performance, no matter HOW GOOD I get at the class and the rotation is lack luster.

Onefrkncrzypope

joseayalac wrote: »

Stam DK is not cheese like a magsorc. But it is very strong when played well and eats NBs for breakfast every time.

My execute is poison arrow and my spammable is pierce armor. Just experiment with your build and don't expect it to be exactly like another class but with different flavour.

If every class had a spammable, if every class had an execute, etc, then all classes would be the same just with different aesthetics. Weapon and guild skill lines would be useless.

I've mained a Stam DK in PVP and PVE for years and I have to tell everyone that says SDK is weak that they need to l2p.

Lol Pierce armor.. everyone knows inner rage is a better spammable in pve.

Ragnarock41

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

For this argument CP and the second set you use also comes into play. You also critted more on the spamming claw parse. But yeah regardless of what you argue there is a rule of thumb in this game for endgame trials. No spammable = garbage dps... Always.

Btw I hate stonefist spammable argument. Quit it. It's gross and annoying. Just fix flurry and buff vma a bit, maybe a s.o.m buff. Or maybe a damage passive for Christ sakes.

Crushing weapon is garbage. Cant argue that skill either.

I feel like you are the only person that makes sense in this post.

Banana

Spam claw it is

Kel

Make one whip flame and magicka, make one poison and stamina.

Seems simple.

As far as using claw as a spammable, I was always told by @xynode that the damage increased the longer it ran, so do not spam it.
You spam claw, you lose dps. The ticks increase in damage, so you'd want it to run..not spam.

Enzym3

I don't wanna stir this firepot up anymore than it is but from a PVP perspective - BG for example, If you re going to compare 1 class to another for a single target spammable, then in comparison to say a stam warden, i can reach a tool tip of over 15kedit sry that tooltip is with CP, it's around 11.2 without with the warden stam bird morph, spammable, slightly delayed animation, but spammable and LA weavable,

that versus spamming your DK claw on me there really isn't any contest, you are dead and i am not.

But doing the same thing on my mag dk, CC-whip, powerwhip, I have to agree 100% that stam DK in PVP at least needs a stamina high burst potential spammable, for me stam dk in pvp is pointless to use vs stam warden

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Kel wrote: »

Make one whip flame and magicka, make one poison and stamina.

Seems simple.

As far as using claw as a spammable, I was always told by @xynode that the damage increased the longer it ran, so do not spam it.
You spam claw, you lose dps. The ticks increase in damage, so you'd want it to run..not spam.

do people even read in this thread, @Juhasow ?

Juhasow

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

@John_Falstaff since it looks like You are one of those people who wont understand how math works until someone will show them that on paper and since I was on PTS anyway I made few tests for You. All tests were made in the same gear the only thing that changed was rotation and skills on bars due to test requirements.

So here is the 1st test with claw as spammable ability. As You can see overall DPS of claw is 2827+2190=5017. It's also woth to look at drain/s part of the part and notice it was 1022

Now here we have parse with claw used as a DoT and crushing weapon as spammable. DPS of claw and crushing weapon together is 2680+2439+677=5796. It's also worth to mention that in this parse crushing weapon and claw had very good crit ratio better then claw had in previous parse so with that higher crit ratio DPS is just 700 higher which means with similar crits it would go down to like 300-400 which is basically nothing and can be considered a margin of error. What cannot be considered a margin of error though is difference in drain/s. In this parse it's 300 higher then in parse with claw as spammable meaning it's like loosing 600 stamina regen which in longer fight means You simply wont sustain that and frankly despite using lava foot soup & saltrice which gives very high sustain I barely sustained with that rotation when on the other hand rotation with claw was smooth and ended up with me having over 2/3 of stamina. Not sustaining in fight means heavy attacking and heavy attacking means DPS loss.


Now I have one more parse to prove certain point. People forgot that when You use claw as spammable You not only have way better sustain but since You are not slotting other spammable ability You have 1 skill slot free which You can fill as You wish. So i did a parse where I used claw as spammable and deadly cloak with it put in flexible skill slot that using claw gives. In that parse DPS of claw+deadly cloak is 2928+1539+1625=6092 which is higher then DPS of crushing weapon with claw. Drain/s is also still lower by 100 then with crushing weapon as spammable so in that case we're getting more DPS , better sustain and better survivability because of major evasion from deadly cloak so yeah keep telling to Yourself that claw is bad spammable ability.

It's a great option for SDK but comparing to the spammable classes it's pretty garbage. It is used as a spammable just because a SDK has to use it as one. Doesn't mean it's a good spammable just means it's the only option just like stamsorc and rending. When a sblade starts using rending then there is no problem with dots skills being a spammable...

Dude i proved in the post You quote that claw as spammable is a thing. Of course claw is a good spammable , very good I would say. It's not a garbage when compared to other spammables just look at the parse I did with crushing weapons , DPS is the same while sustain is much worse and crushing weapon have dmg and cost comparable to supprise attack on stamblade so claw is definietly not a garbage when compared to other class stamina spammable abilities. Your post sounds like You are blind and cannot see results I posted above or You simply dont understand what You're reading and looking at. It's funny how stam dks actually have decent spammable ability but refuse to use it because of that feeling that if they'll spam it they'll loose "insane DoT dmg". Also I think You do not understand why people spams rending since murkmire.

I don't think you understand. You have to utilize a skill in a way that was unintentional, spec into direct damage, wear kraghs and try to brag that it's a decent spammable while not even being over 50k DPS. I hit 50 with a Stam warden that wasn't completely leveled. I don't think you understand how far behind you are on DPS parses. Even your build's "spammable" is a quarter of what a surprise attack can do. Just because you are happy with the sad state a SDK is doesn't mean you are right.

Understand that I acknowledge you can do a rotation. It's super neat but it is a gimmick just like bow bow builds and wearwolves. It can do decent damage but it isn't worth the meager damage for the effort.

@Onefrkncrzypope I dont think You understand, This test was made on PTS where stamina DDs got nerfed in selfbuffed parses due to enchantment changes. DPS of enchantments drops down like 4 times in Wrathstone update so dont expect every selfbuffed parse to be 50k+ on stamina builds. I was wearing krag'h because I was testing new set deadly strike and how it affects proc sets that have DoT components. You say I utilize skill in the way it's unintentional but what that argument have to do with the results ? How do You know it's unintentional maybe it was intentional all the way but people just started to realize that. The only classes that are able to be easily over 50k selfbuffed on PTS are stamden and stamblade because they both have minor berserk and 100% uptime of fracture without messing with the rotation. I dont think You understand differences between classes and fact that stamwarden selfbuffed will always hit higher single target DPS then stam DK. Also You're either lying or dont know what DPS supprise attack is doing on stamblade. On my PTS parse on 6M dummy where i get 52-54k selfbuffed on 6M dummy supprise attack DPS is usually around 3-3,5k which is less then what stam dk would have with claw spam while supported by minor berserk and 100% uptime of fracture and stamblade also have 20% dmg debuff on enemy with his ulti. For claw DPS to be quater of what stamblade gets with supprise attack You would have to get 10k+ dps from supprise attack in parses and I havnt seen selfbuffed parses like that yet so go on enlighten me and show me one. I think You dont understand differences between rotations of different classes. Also this test was not made to reach max DPS possible on stam dk. It was just to compare claw to other spammables while in same gear to get the context. It's also worth to mention that I am PC EU player so on PTS we're always loosing bit of DPS due to latency and clunkiness of server for us. With tweaks here and there , different race I would got close to 50k but this was not the goal of that particular test so please if You dont have enything constructive to say better say nothing.

Qbiken

I honestly don´t see the purpose of giving stamDK a class spammable. From a PvE perspective It´s already been shown multiple times that Venomous Claw is a suitable spammable for stamDK (even though some people don´t want to accept it) , one might consider it to be a bit off to use a DoT-ability as a spammable, but it obviously works.

When looking at it from a PvP point of view, heroic slash is a perfect spammable for stamDK(combined with a LA + Bash rotation).

Kel wrote: »

Make one whip flame and magicka, make one poison and stamina.

Seems simple.

As far as using claw as a spammable, I was always told by @xynode that the damage increased the longer it ran, so do not spam it.
You spam claw, you lose dps. The ticks increase in damage, so you'd want it to run..not spam.

^ This is what happens when you watch too much of ESO Daily........

Juhasow

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Make one whip flame and magicka, make one poison and stamina.

Seems simple.

As far as using claw as a spammable, I was always told by @xynode that the damage increased the longer it ran, so do not spam it.
You spam claw, you lose dps. The ticks increase in damage, so you'd want it to run..not spam.

do people even read in this thread, @Juhasow ?

I think for lot of the people fact that claw which have DoT component can be also used as decent spammable is so staggering they'll need Alcast build video or atleast his approval of that fact for their brains to comprehend.