Curse Eater, deserve a nerf before going to live in the current state?

amir412

Curse Eater

OLD
2 – Adds 1206 Maximum Health
3 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
4 – Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
5 – Reduces the duration of all negative effects applied to you by 20%.
NEW
2 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
3 – Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
5 – When you heal yourself or an ally, remove two negative effects from them. If a negative effect was removed this way, your target restores 150 Magicka. This effect can occur every 2 seconds.

In my opinion this set cannot make it to live in the current state as it will hit, mostly, dots users.
Templars will take a hit in their uniqueness to purge, and i feel it will be too op with cloak users.

My opinion:
Increase the cooldown to 7 seconds.

On patch notes, when a good word needed to be said - This is by far, for me at least, the best patch notes this game have seen in a long time.

First video to show how it literally take the effectiveness of fossilize, @ZOS_GinaBruno This is literally, broken.
* Seen from this vid the dude doesnt even needed to break free, therefore its bugged - how suprising.
* Literally CC immunity set
https://streamable.com/lr4lu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcQ0KP91NW8

Rex-Umbra

No

No because i want to use it

GrumpyDuckling

No

Grab a pencil and write down all of the negative effects that a good player will apply to an enemy during their attack rotation. Then once you see them all, think about how quickly they can be reapplied compared to how often Curse Eating can remove them.

Minalan

Yes

You offer players a way to NOT ever die in PVP and they're going to take it. No more harmful bad effects? Never suffer from snipe or nightblade defiles again? Where do I sign up?

But is that good for the game? Probably not.

This whole thing makes me so happy about the recent changes in the class rep program, because some of those reps are unable to differentiate what is bad for the game as a whole and what is good for their own selfish playstyle

amir412

Yes

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry but i think u are wrong,
U do realise that its going to cleanse 2 effects each rally tick?
Each tick of healing over time will remove 2 effects and restore 150 magicka, i like the idea of the set, But the cooldown is too low.

GrumpyDuckling

No

amir412 wrote: »

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry but i think u are wrong,
U do realise that its going to cleanse 2 effects each rally tick?
Each tick of healing over time will remove 2 effects and restore 150 magicka, i like the idea of the set, But the cooldown is too low.

I'm not entirely sold until it gets tested further. Consider all the negative effects that get placed. I'm going to quote @Berenhir from the other thread because I think their statement is worth thinking about:

"Example sDK:
0
LA + Low Slash + Bash
5 - 6 Dots (Maim, slow, Siphoner, 2x Poison, maybe poisoned)

1
LA + Venomous Claw
1 - 3 Dots (Claw, Siphoner, maybe poisoned)

2
LA + Noxious Breath
2 - 4 Dots (Noxious, Siphoner, Fracture, maybe poisoned)

So 3 seconds - 8 dots, some of them reapplied immediately when falling of.

Set balanced.

Not so much in a 1v1 against a sorc or magblades "

Edited: to complete quote

Checkmath

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry but i think u are wrong,
U do realise that its going to cleanse 2 effects each rally tick?
Each tick of healing over time will remove 2 effects and restore 150 magicka, i like the idea of the set, But the cooldown is too low.

I'm not entirely sold until it gets tested further. Consider all the negative effects that get placed. I'm going to quote @Berenhir from the other thread because I think their statement is worth thinking about:

"Example sDK:
0
LA + Low Slash + Bash
5 - 6 Dots (Maim, slow, Siphoner, 2x Poison, maybe poisoned)

1
LA + Venomous Claw
1 - 3 Dots (Claw, Siphoner, maybe poisoned)

2
LA + Noxious Breath
2 - 4 Dots (Noxious, Siphoner, Fracture, maybe poisoned)

So 3 seconds - 8 dots, some of them reapplied immediately when falling of."

Then you maybe also need to think about the classes without the opportunity to apply so many harmful effects so fast. The magsorcs whole burst combo is ruined with this set, since it will cleanse hunting curse and the few dots a sorc has.

Templars backlash skill probably will not last the full duration and therefore takes away one of the burst skills this class has and needs.

Tasear

No

amir412 wrote: »

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry but i think u are wrong,
U do realise that its going to cleanse 2 effects each rally tick?
Each tick of healing over time will remove 2 effects and restore 150 magicka, i like the idea of the set, But the cooldown is too low.

A longer cool down would make it a trash set like stendar embrace.

GrumpyDuckling

No

Checkmath wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry but i think u are wrong,
U do realise that its going to cleanse 2 effects each rally tick?
Each tick of healing over time will remove 2 effects and restore 150 magicka, i like the idea of the set, But the cooldown is too low.

I'm not entirely sold until it gets tested further. Consider all the negative effects that get placed. I'm going to quote @Berenhir from the other thread because I think their statement is worth thinking about:

"Example sDK:
0
LA + Low Slash + Bash
5 - 6 Dots (Maim, slow, Siphoner, 2x Poison, maybe poisoned)

1
LA + Venomous Claw
1 - 3 Dots (Claw, Siphoner, maybe poisoned)

2
LA + Noxious Breath
2 - 4 Dots (Noxious, Siphoner, Fracture, maybe poisoned)

So 3 seconds - 8 dots, some of them reapplied immediately when falling of."

Then you maybe also need to think about the classes without the opportunity to apply so many harmful effects so fast. The magsorcs whole burst combo is ruined with this set, since it will cleanse hunting curse and the few dots a sorc has.

Templars backlash skill probably will not last the full duration and therefore takes away one of the burst skills this class has and needs.

And that's why we test it further, to see how it performs.

WoppaBoem

Yes

The set is good but to strong we all should not want a set going live that is instant OP. Every tick of Rally for Stam and combined with Mutagen for Magicka when down in health almost all negative effects are removed.

The set is good as this is nice option to expand the wide builds variarty possible in PVP but the cooldown needs to be 3/4 seconds.

katorga

No

Personally I think the effect of the set would be almost unnoticeable outside of dueling. The number of effects, and the rate at which they are reapplied is so great, this set would not be able to keep up. The number of AOE heals and hots would increase the odds that the cool down is used on an ally and not yourself.

For me the question is if you are the ally, can you have more than 2 effects removed per GCD if receiving heals from multiple sources?

Glory

The set likely needs a rework to make it not be able to be stacked by multiple players, and potentially to not allow the same ally to receive the effects (a short, ally based CD).

It's extremely ironic that people have been literally screaming on the forums about the bleed/DoT/snare/defile meta and this set gets introduced and all of a sudden it's god's punishment to man.

Berenhir

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry but i think u are wrong,
U do realise that its going to cleanse 2 effects each rally tick?
Each tick of healing over time will remove 2 effects and restore 150 magicka, i like the idea of the set, But the cooldown is too low.

I'm not entirely sold until it gets tested further. Consider all the negative effects that get placed. I'm going to quote @Berenhir from the other thread because I think their statement is worth thinking about:

"Example sDK:
0
LA + Low Slash + Bash
5 - 6 Dots (Maim, slow, Siphoner, 2x Poison, maybe poisoned)

1
LA + Venomous Claw
1 - 3 Dots (Claw, Siphoner, maybe poisoned)

2
LA + Noxious Breath
2 - 4 Dots (Noxious, Siphoner, Fracture, maybe poisoned)

So 3 seconds - 8 dots, some of them reapplied immediately when falling of."

Then you maybe also need to think about the classes without the opportunity to apply so many harmful effects so fast. The magsorcs whole burst combo is ruined with this set, since it will cleanse hunting curse and the few dots a sorc has.

Templars backlash skill probably will not last the full duration and therefore takes away one of the burst skills this class has and needs.

And that's why we test it further, to see how it performs.

You may also quote me completely, I explicitly state that it's balanced against DoT classes but not against mSorc or mNB

GrumpyDuckling

No

Glory wrote: »

It's extremely ironic that people have been literally screaming on the forums about the bleed/DoT/snare/defile meta and this set gets introduced and all of a sudden it's god's punishment to man.

This is why I'd like to see how it tests before any rash decisions are made.

GrumpyDuckling

No

Berenhir wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

@GrumpyDuckling Sorry but i think u are wrong,
U do realise that its going to cleanse 2 effects each rally tick?
Each tick of healing over time will remove 2 effects and restore 150 magicka, i like the idea of the set, But the cooldown is too low.

I'm not entirely sold until it gets tested further. Consider all the negative effects that get placed. I'm going to quote @Berenhir from the other thread because I think their statement is worth thinking about:

"Example sDK:
0
LA + Low Slash + Bash
5 - 6 Dots (Maim, slow, Siphoner, 2x Poison, maybe poisoned)

1
LA + Venomous Claw
1 - 3 Dots (Claw, Siphoner, maybe poisoned)

2
LA + Noxious Breath
2 - 4 Dots (Noxious, Siphoner, Fracture, maybe poisoned)

So 3 seconds - 8 dots, some of them reapplied immediately when falling of."

Then you maybe also need to think about the classes without the opportunity to apply so many harmful effects so fast. The magsorcs whole burst combo is ruined with this set, since it will cleanse hunting curse and the few dots a sorc has.

Templars backlash skill probably will not last the full duration and therefore takes away one of the burst skills this class has and needs.

And that's why we test it further, to see how it performs.

You may also quote me completely, I explicitly state that it's balanced against DoT classes but not against mSorc or mNB

Updated, thank you for catching that.

Dracane

As if DKs wouldn't suffer enough from this purging mania that Templars have. If another easy mode purge gets introduced, what damage are they even supposed to do in pvp ? Purges are way too strong and counter literally any build that relies on build up rather than burst. This is why burst is the only viable way in pvp.

ChunkyCat

No

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

No because i want to use it

Waffennacht

Yes

It will/would gut everything.

No class (none) doesn't use some form of purgeable effect.

Dots
Debuffs (defile, concussion, fracture/breach,
Direct attacks (curse, PotL)
Snares and Roots

It is a set that literally can be placed on any build and be effective

Tryxus

Yes

Purge is alrdy a very powerful skill that takes away a lot of pressure when you use it. Putting it on an armor set for free casts every 2 secs results in a similar situation as the first iteration of Soldier of Anguish: a strong set on its own, too potent in a group with others using it

Lughlongarm

What if the set will not proc on hots but only on direct heal, will it be balanced?

Valykc

Yes

Needs a percentage to proc it. Too OP as it is

Glory

Lughlongarm wrote: »

What if the set will not proc on hots but only on direct heal, will it be balanced?

That's one of my suggestions as well. Requires active gameplay.

Valykc wrote: »

Needs a percentage to proc it. Too OP as it is

I'd advocate for any other solution that percentage procs. Everyone, and I mean everyone, hates those.

Solariken

Yes

1 Cleanse every 2 sec would feel more balanced to me.

WreckfulAbandon

Yes

If a group of 4 all wear this set and run together then they are essentially immune to DoTs

jaws343

Yes

There are a number of sets this can be paired with that would make it even crazier.

I think Steadfast Hero is the biggest one. Paired with this set, you would have mostly a 50% uptime of Major Protection with little effort. Which is huge. Steadfast hero right now requires actively proccing it. But with passive healing from the templar or nightblade spammable, this will be up on cooldown.

Ragnarock41

Yes

I would say it needs a higher cooldown.

Iki

Yes

Cooldown should be 5 or 6 seconds and to compensate that, magicka restore could be increased to 200. If it purges every 2 seconds someone with this set would be close to "immune" to sorcs curses, at least when context being 1 vs 1 against magicka-sorc. Ofc they could also change curse to explode when purged so it would work as inevitable detonation and remove sorc-specific issue with this set, but even then it might be bit too strong set against damage over time skills.

Dojohoda

No

I haven't tried it yet.

"When you heal yourself or an ally, remove two negative effects from them."

The wording is unclear. Who is them. Does that mean yourself and one person or ???

I'm going with No for now. There're builds that can place 5 dots on you every second. Then add in the ranged dots from players and siege. This set would be especially nice in no-cp PVP.

Minalan

Yes

Iki wrote: »

Cooldown should be 5 or 6 seconds and to compensate that, magicka restore could be increased to 200. If it purges every 2 seconds someone with this set would be close to "immune" to sorcs curses, at least when context being 1 vs 1 against magicka-sorc. Ofc they could also change curse to explode when purged so it would work as inevitable detonation and remove sorc-specific issue with this set, but even then it might be bit too strong set against damage over time skills.

It's not just Sorc curses, it's also incap strike immunity. The fracture is purged and the defile laughed off the second after it hits. Even if you swap to DBOS, the dot gets lol purged.

Try killing anyone with a nightblade if this goes live.

I say this because so many nightblades can't wait to wear it with cloak. Stop that. This set hurts you a lot more than it helps.

BaylorCorvette

Yes

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say it needs a higher cooldown.

I agree with this. For what it brings to the table it is over performing on PTS currently.

amir412

Yes

There is no need for further testing to understand this set is broken. This set is literally going to kill mag sorc.