Class Reps Doing Me a Letdown

Tabbycat

I'm a casual PvE player. Class reps seem to think I want the Light Armor passive Grace.

This is utterly useless for me. Why wasn't it put under Alliance Assault where it belongs?

I don't feel like I'm being represented by these Class Reps and I think ZOS needs to consider the playstyle of the TES fan casuals that make up the majority of their players.

I don't feel like they are doing that with the upcoming Racial changes. Now, I play a Breton and Breton's are not being damaged too horribly by these changes. But I'm looking at the changes to some of the other races and I feel like the attempt to balance PvP is going to end up destroying the flavor of TES in this game. Keeping ESO feeling like a TES game and not like some generic MMO should be a priority to the Developers.

Who is representing me? MMO Players or TES fans?

Juhasow

LOOOOOOL

ATomiX96

What? They straight up added an extra bonus to the Grace passive and you are complaining about it? The *** is wrong with you people. And why in the world do you blame class reps for it lmfao.

Cadbury

Well, everyone has their own agendas, so why would you think being a Class Rep makes them immune to biases?

Latios

So you are a casual PvE player, and a useless skill to you should feel the same to everyone else?

Also, you sure there are no trials or PvE content where a snare is applied or you need to make a run for it with sprinting?

The racial balancing, also, is making the game much better in a lot of regards. You'll be able to use 3, even 4 different races in a lot of content without being left behind.

And last, where do you think combat itself(and the top numbers) matter more - the aim with balancing: The endgame community or the casuals?

Casuals won't even notice most of the changes.

Liofa

We are in 2019 and people still have no idea what class reps do smh

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

If you are casual pve player then this change doesn't affect you at all.

Tasear

Yeah that bosmer thing is kinda sad for different kinda of combat gameplay, but for most part racial are well done.

Grace passive agrument you have doesn't make sense me. Care to explain more?

Protossyder

Garrick

The biggest problem with ESO is exactly this: Everything is balanced around a PVP system that 90% of players don't give a hoot about.

Unfortunately, it is the nature of MMOs to converge on every character being identical. Any developer who has spent a lot of time trying to balance a game realizes this.

The cycle goes like this. Lets imagine that there is some hypothetical method of rating the imbalance between two races (or classes, etc.). Let's call this Imbalance Points. Now, find the maximum Imbalance Points between any two races and call that M. When the (hardcore) player base look at the races, everything is in comparison to M. For example, one race may have an imbalance of M, and another might be some fraction of M, such as x/M. Balancing is called for to address M, and those things that are x/M where x is closest to M. So some balancing occurs and now, when M is recalculated it is a lower absolute value than before.

The problem is, the hardcode players still measure everything relative to M, regardless of the size of M. As long as M exists, i.e. there is some imbalance, then the system will never be fair. In psychological terms, even though M constantly decreases, the players see M as always being the same size in relative terms. This is how we go from "Argonians are now worth playing" to "OMG Argonians are SOOO OP now".

Ultimately, M will tend towards zero, but hardcore players will not be satisfied until it is effectively Zero. At this point, all races, classes, equipment, mechanics, etc. will all be effectively the same. Usually, what happens is the game dies a death before this point is reached. Eventually, only the hardcore players are left and the developers realize that putting them in charge of the game balancing was a great way to kill off the game.

I never understood this: Hardcore players may put more time into the game but they don't pay more. If anything, they may even pay less because they can afford to grind for things other people might just Crown Store. They are also the players that get bored the fastest, complain the most, are least likely to be satisfied, and are most likely to move on to some other game. So why do developers listen to them the most? They seem like the last people you would want to listen to.

Reverb

You are making far too many assumptions and stating them as fact. Take a step back and grab a Xanax, because these forums aren’t going to let that go. I’ll stop at making 2 points, others won’t be so restrained.

Firstly, the assumption that racial changes are to benefit pvp. It’s not just you, many pve players blame pvp for all changes they disagree with, even when the devs themselves stated different intent. Check your bias, race mattters a great deal less in pvp than it does in pve, and while there’s a pvp meta there’s not really min/maxing and there’s already a huge spectrum of build diversity, very much unlike pve. The racial changes were intended to apply more consistent stats to the races and offer more build diversity in all areas of the game, but primarily will impact end game pve.

Second, your belief that Class Reps actually make decisions about what happens in the game, or the belief that they should represent you personally. Both are hysterically wrong. Class Reps compile and present feedback to Zeni, who does what they want with it. Class Reps speak to challenges they and the player base are facing, and they speak to the wishlist of changes people have said they want to see. Class Reps don’t compel development.

Let me say it again, Class Reps don’t compel development. Zeni does what they want. Sometimes taking feedback into account, sometimes not.

Bam_Bam

Liofa wrote: »

We are in 2019 and people still have no idea what class reps do smh

What exactly do you guys do? (Serious question)

VaranisArano

ZOS does what they want.

Get that through your head. ZOS does what they want. They made that crystal clear after Murkmire, as if it wasnt already obvious. It isnt the fault of the class reps when ZOS does what they want.

Now, what they want isnt balance. They dont want players feeling satisfied with their builds because satisfied players are happy, then get bored, and leave.

What they want is horizontal progression. They want players chasing the carrot of the everchanging meta so players, dissatisfied with changes, will grind until they are back on top. Something is always, always going to change with every update and has since One Tamriel.

If that doesnt sound much like a single player TES game to you, you'd be correct. This isnt a single player TES game where you buy it, the company makes money fron the sale, and everyone is happy. This is an MMO, it has different operating costs, and it needs to keep players by hook and crook playing and grinding away.

So don't go blaming the class reps or PVP for the constant changes. The Devs are constantly going to change the meta anyway - even if this became a 100% PVE game for casuals - because that's how they keep players grinding away chasing the carrot of the meta long after the shiny new game smell has faded.

Emmagoldman

If you are casual, I wouldnt listen to forums much and go to people who have an idea. The amount of overreaction and lack of understanding is insane. According to forums, each racial group is now trash and broken! It goes live in June, relax

These passives are generally looking good. Bosmar will need slightly less expedition (20% is a ton). Id argue a super slight reduction in spell reduction for breton.

Overall, Gilliam put out the notes and Wrobel isnt here. Gilliam was much heavier on the pve side and knows the game i.e beating vma with a bucket and broom. They sound like they understand combat needs help and yes, they need to rework it.

The PVE side is highly reactive and quick to point their finger at pvp. Lets not forget, shield changes of last patch were because healers felt worthless. If the pve side was worried about balance in pve, they would be loosing it over these new sets and flipping tables over the cp gain years ago. We dont see that. The more OP and easier the better. Between burn and mechanics, people always choose burn.

Its going to pts now and it goes live in June. Lets see what the reps do and ZOS's new team. Im highly critical of them but give them a chance or a suggestion.

Tasear

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

We are in 2019 and people still have no idea what class reps do smh

What exactly do you guys do? (Serious question)

Advise on issues presented for community. Also be scapegoat for some other issues? Make sublime suggestions for game to fix issues.

mxxo

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

If you are casual pve player then this change doesn't affect you at all.

So you are telling that a casual player should not have the option to evolve?

Reverb

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

We are in 2019 and people still have no idea what class reps do smh

What exactly do you guys do? (Serious question)

@Bam_Bam there are several official threads on it, easily found if you were honestly curious about it. And here’s a direct quote from Gina

As a reminder, the class reps will be collating top concerns for every class to present to the Dev Team; they will not be making game-altering decisions, but they will make sure your voice is heard. After each quarterly meeting, the plan will be to publish notes so everyone can see what was discussed, and you can ask questions to the group.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415245/eso-class-reps/p1

Itzmichi

Tabbycat wrote: »

I'm a casual PvE player. Class reps seem to think I want the Light Armor passive Grace.

This is utterly useless for me. Why wasn't it put under Alliance Assault where it belongs?

I don't feel like I'm being represented by these Class Reps and I think ZOS needs to consider the playstyle of the TES fan casuals that make up the majority of their players.

I don't feel like they are doing that with the upcoming Racial changes. Now, I play a Breton and Breton's are not being damaged too horribly by these changes. But I'm looking at the changes to some of the other races and I feel like the attempt to balance PvP is going to end up destroying the flavor of TES in this game. Keeping ESO feeling like a TES game and not like some generic MMO should be a priority to the Developers.

Who is representing me? MMO Players or TES fans?

Mate, ever tried satisfying everyone? Either you'll find out that you can't cause taste and expectations vary, or you could make a great - censored-

Its not only you who is playing the game. The reps state their opinions but what actually makes it into the game is a total different story decided by Zos

GrumpyDuckling

If you're going to question the class reps, I'd suggest questioning whether or not they have access to information that would lead to insider trading.

For example, if the class reps knew which PVP sets would be getting buffed before the rest of us, then before PTS dropped they could easily buy those sets on the cheap knowing that they will become valuable. I'm looking at Curse Eater as an example. If the class reps were in position to buy that set on the cheap from other players before anyone else knew that it would become powerful, then it would benefit the class reps at the expense of other players.

This is all hypothetical, and no accusations are being made. Perhaps the class reps didn't know which sets would be getting buffed. Things get interesting if they did know, though.

ZOS_Mika

Since this discussion has derailed rather quickly and hasn't been terribly constructive, we have gone ahead and closed it down. Thank you for your understanding.