What happened to refunds after major gameplay changes? A blast from the past (with pictures)

Suddwrath

In the past, when major changes were made to gameplay players were refunded with their skill points/champion points/attribute points or were allowed to respec for only 1 gold per point.

By definition, are the racial passive changes not considered a major gameplay change? It would be nice if ZOS followed what they have done in the past, especially since the only options in this case would be to 1) Spend actual money to buy race change tokens, 2) Re-roll their character completely and grind back to where they were, or 3) Keep their character as-is even if it is no longer as optimal as it was before.

With some end-game players having 10+ characters and others not having the time to completely re-roll their characters, it would be a good gesture from ZOS to the community if they allowed players to change their races for free for a short amount of time to adjust to these gameplay changes.

Edit: This is not about refunding skill points, but rather the concept of ZOS allowing players to temporarily do something for free due to gameplay changes. In the past, when skills were changed ZOS allowed the players to respec for free. With the races themselves being changed, the concept of ZOS allowing players to swap races for free for a short amount of time to adjust to these changes would be nice.

















@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

Siohwenoeht

The announcement already said they were refunding the skill points from the racial passives and that we wouldn't lose any progress made in those lines...

Suddwrath

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

The announcement already said they were refunding the skill points from the racial passives and that we wouldn't lose any progress made in those lines...

This is referring to players who want to change their race due to these changes.

Siohwenoeht

Straight from the bottom of Gil's post:

"As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account."

Suddwrath

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Straight from the bottom of Gil's post:

"As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account."

This is referring to players who want to change their race due to these changes.

Siohwenoeht

I think we've got a barrier here... All players will have all skill points from racial passives refunded on all their characters. Doesn't matter if you use a race change token or not, once the changes are live, you'll get to allocate those points back into racials.

jaws343

SaltySudd wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Straight from the bottom of Gil's post:

"As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account."

This is referring to players who want to change their race due to these changes.

But you are trying to argue precedent for a refund. But only skill point refunds have been done in the past, and they are being done now. So you have offered zero evidence that they have set a precedence that the race changes themselves should be up for refund.

Now, I do think that more than 1 token would be nice. I myself will be re-rolling 4 characters to avoid spending money on tokens. But I am not going to sit here and act like they owe it to us.

Suddwrath

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I think we've got a barrier here... All players will have all skill points from racial passives refunded on all their characters. Doesn't matter if you use a race change token or not, once the changes are live, you'll get to allocate those points back into racials.

This thread isn't about the skill points themselves being refunded, but rather ZOS allowing players to do something for free which would otherwise cost them gold/crowns. So since the races themselves are being changed, it would be nice if ZOS allowed players to change their races for free for a short amount of time similar to how they did it with skill reworks in the past.

Suddwrath

jaws343 wrote: »

Now, I do think that more than 1 token would be nice. I myself will be re-rolling 4 characters to avoid spending money on tokens. But I am not going to sit here and act like they owe it to us.

I'm not necessarily arguing that they owe it to us, but rather that they have shown us good faith in the past. Their stance could have simply been to not refund anything at all with skill reworks, but they have.

So with that precedent in mind, it would just be nice if ZOS allowed players to do this one thing for free as well for a short amount of time.

Siohwenoeht

SaltySudd wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I think we've got a barrier here... All players will have all skill points from racial passives refunded on all their characters. Doesn't matter if you use a race change token or not, once the changes are live, you'll get to allocate those points back into racials.

This thread isn't about the skill points themselves being refunded, but rather ZOS allowing players to do something for free which would otherwise cost them gold/crowns. So since the races themselves are being changed, it would be nice if ZOS allowed players to change their races for free for a short amount of time similar to how they did it with skill reworks in the past.

My bad... Did not understand that from original post... Need more coffee.

Suddwrath

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

My bad... Did not understand that from original post... Need more coffee.

All is well!

I added an edit since I can see where the confusion may have come from with the "refunds".

Enjoy your coffee!

RDMyers65b14_ESO

What happened is after ZOS allowed a free respec, too many people whined that they didn't want to have to respec so ZOS listened to them and did away with free respecs.

Aluneth

The refunds in the past, haven't cost ZOS any money. They'll refund your skills, but they're not giving away free services (minus that one race change).

Suddwrath

Aluneth wrote: »

The refunds in the past, haven't cost ZOS any money. They'll refund your skills, but they're not giving away free services (minus that one race change).

But skill respec scrolls are in the crown store, so it could be argued that it could have cost them since there are players who use those scrolls rather than paying with gold.

jaws343

SaltySudd wrote: »

Aluneth wrote: »

The refunds in the past, haven't cost ZOS any money. They'll refund your skills, but they're not giving away free services (minus that one race change).

But skill respec scrolls are in the crown store, so it could be argued that it could have cost them since there are players who use those scrolls rather than paying with gold.

But, the skill respecs are already an in-game mechanic that costs gold. Race change is not.

Siohwenoeht

Since they offer 1 skill Respec and 1 attribute Respec as a leveling reward I could get behind them offering a racial token as a level reward too. Kind of a "Yay! Level 50... But my build is a hot mess..." fix.

AlienatedGoat

jaws343 wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Straight from the bottom of Gil's post:

"As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account."

This is referring to players who want to change their race due to these changes.

But you are trying to argue precedent for a refund. But only skill point refunds have been done in the past, and they are being done now. So you have offered zero evidence that they have set a precedence that the race changes themselves should be up for refund.

Now, I do think that more than 1 token would be nice. I myself will be re-rolling 4 characters to avoid spending money on tokens. But I am not going to sit here and act like they owe it to us.

I'll sit here and say it outright that they owe it to us.

Time and again ZOS takes the path of most profit, and leaves goodwill in the dust.

This racial change business is no different. They had ample opportunity to take the consumer-friendly path and offer a racial change to every character, but instead they give us one pittance token and force us to choose only one character out of up to 15.

This behavior is clearly meant to push players towards the Crown Store to buy tokens. There is nothing stopping ZOS from offering free changes - as the OP has pointed out, their attitude in the past has always been to give free changes, to allow players to adjust after a major change.

That ZOS chose to go this "choose one" route instead is very telling.

AlnilamE

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Straight from the bottom of Gil's post:

"As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account."

This is referring to players who want to change their race due to these changes.

But you are trying to argue precedent for a refund. But only skill point refunds have been done in the past, and they are being done now. So you have offered zero evidence that they have set a precedence that the race changes themselves should be up for refund.

Now, I do think that more than 1 token would be nice. I myself will be re-rolling 4 characters to avoid spending money on tokens. But I am not going to sit here and act like they owe it to us.

I'll sit here and say it outright that they owe it to us.

Time and again ZOS takes the path of most profit, and leaves goodwill in the dust.

This racial change business is no different. They had ample opportunity to take the consumer-friendly path and offer a racial change to every character, but instead they give us one pittance token and force us to choose only one character out of up to 15.

This behavior is clearly meant to push players towards the Crown Store to buy tokens. There is nothing stopping ZOS from offering free changes - as the OP has pointed out, their attitude in the past has always been to give free changes, to allow players to adjust after a major change.

That ZOS chose to go this "choose one" route instead is very telling.

Why on earth would I want 10 racial change tokens clogging my inventory? It's full enough as it is.

And the only reason we have race change in the first place is because people begged for it.

So be careful what you wish for, or something along those lines.

(And yes, if they ever introduce a class change token, it will be the exact same thing. Every time there's a change people will whine and complain).

Mettaricana

They claimed they'd refund skill points to skills and skill lines that change not races and classes you're digging way to hard to try to be right...

desciviib14_ESO

SaltySudd wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Now, I do think that more than 1 token would be nice. I myself will be re-rolling 4 characters to avoid spending money on tokens. But I am not going to sit here and act like they owe it to us.

I'm not necessarily arguing that they owe it to us, but rather that they have shown us good faith in the past. Their stance could have simply been to not refund anything at all with skill reworks, but they have.

So with that precedent in mind, it would just be nice if ZOS allowed players to do this one thing for free as well for a short amount of time.

I think this sums up the situation well. Well said

Ertosi

AlnilamE wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Straight from the bottom of Gil's post:

"As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account."

This is referring to players who want to change their race due to these changes.

But you are trying to argue precedent for a refund. But only skill point refunds have been done in the past, and they are being done now. So you have offered zero evidence that they have set a precedence that the race changes themselves should be up for refund.

Now, I do think that more than 1 token would be nice. I myself will be re-rolling 4 characters to avoid spending money on tokens. But I am not going to sit here and act like they owe it to us.

I'll sit here and say it outright that they owe it to us.

Time and again ZOS takes the path of most profit, and leaves goodwill in the dust.

This racial change business is no different. They had ample opportunity to take the consumer-friendly path and offer a racial change to every character, but instead they give us one pittance token and force us to choose only one character out of up to 15.

This behavior is clearly meant to push players towards the Crown Store to buy tokens. There is nothing stopping ZOS from offering free changes - as the OP has pointed out, their attitude in the past has always been to give free changes, to allow players to adjust after a major change.

That ZOS chose to go this "choose one" route instead is very telling.

Why on earth would I want 10 racial change tokens clogging my inventory? It's full enough as it is.

They could very easily offer the extra free tokens in the Crown Store. That's exactly how special event starter quests are handled, so those not wanting to participate don't have to worry about stuff clogging their inventory. It's a bit selfish to argue no one should get them just because you don't want to be bothered by them.

More importantly, things like Race Change Tokens don't even go to character inventory and are only accessible from the Character Selection Menu. Even if they did give more than 1 free, it would only show there as a little number over the ever present Race Change button at the bottom of the screen.

ValorieW

These planned race changes are going to cost me at LEAST 150 bucks to correct the problems they are creating in my builds. I’m furious. I’m not pre ordering the new chapter, and I’m not sure I will even keep playing if all this goes through. One token? Ha! That’s nothing but an insult. I’ve spent money for race changes a couple of times to correct my own mistakes— but these aren’t MY mistakes. The more I think about it, the angrier I get.

AzraelKrieg

The reason it doesn't happen anymore is because people complained about it every time stuff was changed.

Gronk

Yes people forgot their cp distribution and were mad .

Dark_Lord_Kuro

SaltySudd wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

The announcement already said they were refunding the skill points from the racial passives and that we wouldn't lose any progress made in those lines...

This is referring to players who want to change their race due to these changes.

Well they do respect everything in there as far as i know you have your skillpoint back
The never said they were handing out race change token

AlienatedGoat

AlnilamE wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Straight from the bottom of Gil's post:

"As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account."

This is referring to players who want to change their race due to these changes.

But you are trying to argue precedent for a refund. But only skill point refunds have been done in the past, and they are being done now. So you have offered zero evidence that they have set a precedence that the race changes themselves should be up for refund.

Now, I do think that more than 1 token would be nice. I myself will be re-rolling 4 characters to avoid spending money on tokens. But I am not going to sit here and act like they owe it to us.

I'll sit here and say it outright that they owe it to us.

Time and again ZOS takes the path of most profit, and leaves goodwill in the dust.

This racial change business is no different. They had ample opportunity to take the consumer-friendly path and offer a racial change to every character, but instead they give us one pittance token and force us to choose only one character out of up to 15.

This behavior is clearly meant to push players towards the Crown Store to buy tokens. There is nothing stopping ZOS from offering free changes - as the OP has pointed out, their attitude in the past has always been to give free changes, to allow players to adjust after a major change.

That ZOS chose to go this "choose one" route instead is very telling.

Why on earth would I want 10 racial change tokens clogging my inventory? It's full enough as it is.

And the only reason we have race change in the first place is because people begged for it.

So be careful what you wish for, or something along those lines.

(And yes, if they ever introduce a class change token, it will be the exact same thing. Every time there's a change people will whine and complain).

Um, tokens don't go to your inventory. They sit on your character selection screen. They're not in-game items.

Regardless, it doesn't even have to be tokens. They could just add a button to the character screen for 2 weeks that lets you change race.

max_only

Who doesn’t take all their racials?