Bosmer changes are great and powerful

Ragnaroek93

Ok, fellow Bosmer players, take a deep breath and realise how powerful the new passive actually is: No, the race doesn't get nerfed just because we lose the Stealthy passive. Stop being selfish and also take into consideration that there are 4 other classes which can't take advantage of stealth, so any stealth related passive is useless for everyone except Nightblades.

Having a race which supports mobility playstyles enables a lot of interesting build choices and is a good addition to the game and even makes the race BiS for hit and run builds in PvP, I'm pretty sure that the devs did put a lot of thoughts into this and I'm positively surprised with the racial changes overall. I can't understand the outcry at all, I'm actually surprised about all the negative feedback regarding this race (tho I can understand the bad feedback from Dunmer and from Khajiit players).

Just wait for the PTS and test it before you complain, you will actually see how strong 20% more movement speed is (I'd say it might be even a bit too strong).

Tasear

My bosmer healer lovrs it.

Left4Daud

People that are upset that a race that has had stealth bonuses for years in this game, (and other games in the franchise) are “selfish” for mourning what they love about the race and their characters?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

SodanTok

This is like the best addition of these changes. From PVP nonnightblade standpoint this is literally buff of getting 1 whole passive. That is massive already. I actually fear they will nerf it out how powerful the speed feels to have. The reason so many people complain is exactly why this should have been changed. Sneaking people are complaining because nobody else even played bosmer (unless they just wanted the race for looks)

AlienatedGoat

I wouldn't call them great myself.

The roll dodge movement speed addition is interesting but situational. Everything else is mostly the same.

Twohothardware

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

I wouldn't call them great myself.

The roll dodge movement speed addition is interesting but situational. Everything else is mostly the same.

Wood Elf now has the same max stamina as Redguard/Imperial so they will make for stronger DPS builds than before with only 6% Stamina.

BlueRaven

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ok, fellow Bosmer players, take a deep breath and realise how powerful the new passive actually is: No, the race doesn't get nerfed just because we lose the Stealthy passive. Stop being selfish and also take into consideration that there are 4 other classes which can't take advantage of stealth, so any stealth related passive is useless for everyone except Nightblades.

Having a race which supports mobility playstyles enables a lot of interesting build choices and is a good addition to the game and even makes the race BiS for hit and run builds in PvP, I'm pretty sure that the devs did put a lot of thoughts into this and I'm positively surprised with the racial changes overall. I can't understand the outcry at all, I'm actually surprised about all the negative feedback regarding this race (tho I can understand the bad feedback from Dunmer and from Khajiit players).

Just wait for the PTS and test it before you complain, you will actually see how strong 20% more movement speed is (I'd say it might be even a bit too strong).

The changes are awful.
You might be new to the game so just as a FYI ALL classes can stealth. I have 3 different bosmer classes and ALL of them use stealth as part of their playstile.

olsborg

Only races that I see came out of this bad is (as you said) khajit and dunmer.

Galarthor

The 20% speed buff is ludicrous. People will be faster than during the Swift Trait Meta where you could not hit people b/c they move too fast for the game to comprehend.

This begs the question: WHY?

And ofc, it is something game breaking that benefits stamblades the most ...

max_only

Man all those times in pve when I could have detected stealth enemies! Said no one, ever.

Ragnaroek93

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ok, fellow Bosmer players, take a deep breath and realise how powerful the new passive actually is: No, the race doesn't get nerfed just because we lose the Stealthy passive. Stop being selfish and also take into consideration that there are 4 other classes which can't take advantage of stealth, so any stealth related passive is useless for everyone except Nightblades.

Having a race which supports mobility playstyles enables a lot of interesting build choices and is a good addition to the game and even makes the race BiS for hit and run builds in PvP, I'm pretty sure that the devs did put a lot of thoughts into this and I'm positively surprised with the racial changes overall. I can't understand the outcry at all, I'm actually surprised about all the negative feedback regarding this race (tho I can understand the bad feedback from Dunmer and from Khajiit players).

Just wait for the PTS and test it before you complain, you will actually see how strong 20% more movement speed is (I'd say it might be even a bit too strong).

The changes are awful.
You might be new to the game so just as a FYI ALL classes can stealth. I have 3 different bosmer classes and ALL of them use stealth as part of their playstile.

You probably don't play any PvP if you feel like this passive is useless...

[snip]

Galarthor wrote: »

The 20% speed buff is ludicrous. People will be faster than during the Swift Trait Meta where you could not hit people b/c they move too fast for the game to comprehend.

This begs the question: WHY?

And ofc, it is something game breaking that benefits stamblades the most ...

Needs to be tested out. It's very likely that stamnbs get nerfed and having a race which buffs mobility would be very helpful to enable hit and run builds on other classes than Nb as well. There's a difference between having to run a bow, a race with rather weak "brawler stats", having to active speed with dodgeroll and having perma speed just with a pot and some traits. Maybe you are right and they need to decrease the duration to something lower like 2.5s or something.

[Edit for bait.]

Left4Daud

Quoted post has been removed.

For a lot of players that picked Bosmer, the "buffs" are meaningless next to what they lost. Yeah, a lot of casual players picked Bosmer for the stealthy archer lore flavor, and they got all of that taken away from a PVE perspective. These players couldn't care less about a 20% movespeed bonus after roll dodge which is only useful in PVP, AND detection which is again, only applicable in PVP and barely at that.

And before you make assumptions about me as a player, I play Bosmer (among many other races) in both PVP and high level PVE. [snip]

Y'ffre frowns on you, sir.

[Edit for bait.]

_Ahala_

This is gonna be amazing on my mobility builds... HYPED for bosmer changes

Galarthor

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Needs to be tested out. It's very likely that stamnbs get nerfed and having a race which buffs mobility would be very helpful to enable hit and run builds on other classes than Nb as well. There's a difference between having to run a bow, a race with rather weak "brawler stats", having to active speed with dodgeroll and having perma speed just with a pot and some traits. Maybe you are right and they need to decrease the duration to something lower like 2.5s or something.

Well I don't mind these kinds of builds as long as the game can handle them. And the fact that the total swift speed got nerfed by 12% and this buff increases speed by 20% means that people will be faster than during the Swift Meta and the game could not handle it back then. Given that even a 10% increase would already lead to Swift Meta-levels of speed, I don't really see a way to make this speed buff happening without making it miniscule.

And if you insist on having it like it is currently proposed, then it needs like a 10 second cooldown. Else it will be impossible to fight back.

Ragnaroek93

Galarthor wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Needs to be tested out. It's very likely that stamnbs get nerfed and having a race which buffs mobility would be very helpful to enable hit and run builds on other classes than Nb as well. There's a difference between having to run a bow, a race with rather weak "brawler stats", having to active speed with dodgeroll and having perma speed just with a pot and some traits. Maybe you are right and they need to decrease the duration to something lower like 2.5s or something.

Well I don't mind these kinds of builds as long as the game can handle them. And the fact that the total swift speed got nerfed by 12% and this buff increases speed by 20% means that people will be faster than during the Swift Meta and the game could not handle it back then. Given that even a 10% increase would already lead to Swift Meta-levels of speed, I don't really see a way to make this speed buff happening without making it miniscule.

And if you insist on having it like it is currently proposed, then it needs like a 10 second cooldown. Else it will be impossible to fight back.

I don't think that swift was the problem to be honest, more like speed pots which gave major expedition with perma uptime + forward momentum. Only the peak speed will be higher with bow and new racials, the average movement speed will probably be much lower than during the Swift meta. A brawler build can't dodge every three seconds (even I can't do that without running out of stam pretty quickly), so it really needs to be tested out. Also don't forget that the other races get pretty neat buffs too on both mag and stam side.

eso_nya

The speedbuff wont make it to the live server.
While its only situationally usefull, u can stack it with hasty retreat.

For pve the other perks do nothing if u pick healer, tank or mDD. only "supported" role is sDD and for those, dunmer, khajiit and orc get better raw dmg perks, redguard gets better sustain.
Max stam and regen help any role with staying alive, but it rnt perks u would pick on purpose as they dont help u to do your actual job better.

If its supposed to be for lore and immersion, th passives shouldnt be combat relevant.
If the passives r combat relevant, they should be balanced _and_ warn u in char creation that picking a certain race is not a good idea for some roles.

max_only

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ok, fellow Bosmer players, take a deep breath and realise how powerful the new passive actually is: No, the race doesn't get nerfed just because we lose the Stealthy passive. Stop being selfish and also take into consideration that there are 4 other classes which can't take advantage of stealth, so any stealth related passive is useless for everyone except Nightblades.

Having a race which supports mobility playstyles enables a lot of interesting build choices and is a good addition to the game and even makes the race BiS for hit and run builds in PvP, I'm pretty sure that the devs did put a lot of thoughts into this and I'm positively surprised with the racial changes overall. I can't understand the outcry at all, I'm actually surprised about all the negative feedback regarding this race (tho I can understand the bad feedback from Dunmer and from Khajiit players).

Just wait for the PTS and test it before you complain, you will actually see how strong 20% more movement speed is (I'd say it might be even a bit too strong).

The changes are awful.
You might be new to the game so just as a FYI ALL classes can stealth. I have 3 different bosmer classes and ALL of them use stealth as part of their playstile.

You probably don't play any PvP if you feel like this passive is useless...

The majority of the game’s content is pve. That is a fact. Even if you spend all your time detecting stealth enemies in pvp, which I highly doubt, that is the minority. Fact.

SydneyGrey

I think it's a mistake to give ANY race a passive that is purely for PvP-only. It's completely wasted for anyone who doesn't do PvP, or who won't do PvP on that particular character.

Cundu_Ertur

Left4Daud wrote: »

People that are upset that a race that has had stealth bonuses for years in this game, (and other games in the franchise) are “selfish” for mourning what they love about the race and their characters?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

This.
Bosmer have stealth bonuses. Bosmer have ALWAYS had stealth bonuses.

To take stealth away and replace it with two things that are really only of value in PVP is complete crap. It is not a buff, that passive may as well not exist for PVE.

burglar

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

... Stop being selfish and also take into consideration that there are 4 other classes which can't take advantage of stealth, so any stealth related passive is useless for everyone except Nightblades...

Holy [snip]... I didn't even consider that. Nightblade really is the true stealth class, no more fakers.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Left4Daud wrote: »

People that are upset that a race that has had stealth bonuses for years in this game, (and other games in the franchise) are “selfish” for mourning what they love about the race and their characters?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

This.
Bosmer have stealth bonuses. Bosmer have ALWAYS had stealth bonuses.

To take stealth away and replace it with two things that are really only of value in PVP is complete crap. It is not a buff, that passive may as well not exist for PVE.

Bosmers are also supposed to be able to tame a damn animal, but have never been able to do that. To think that movement speed bursts are only valuable in pvp is absurd; what is the number one thing in this game that keeps you alive? Movement. There's not a damn thing in this game that's worth doing, that doesn't require mobility.

Edit: Also, I don't think OP's point sank in about stealthy passive being removed from races... This means that nightblades will finally be the best stealth class in the game, making this a much needed buff to nightblades, and a much needed nerf to stealth for other classes. Which honestly makes a lot of sense, considering stealth is an integral part of the nightblade... much more than it is a part of being bosmer. It's absolute nonsense that another class like a stamplar can simply choose to be bosmer and all of a sudden be as good at stealthing as an imperial nightblade. Besides, a bosmer can still stealth if they want to, just crouch.

max_only

ProbablePaul wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

... Stop being selfish and also take into consideration that there are 4 other classes which can't take advantage of stealth, so any stealth related passive is useless for everyone except Nightblades...

Holy [snip]... I didn't even consider that. Nightblade really is the true stealth class, no more fakers.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Left4Daud wrote: »

People that are upset that a race that has had stealth bonuses for years in this game, (and other games in the franchise) are “selfish” for mourning what they love about the race and their characters?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

This.
Bosmer have stealth bonuses. Bosmer have ALWAYS had stealth bonuses.

To take stealth away and replace it with two things that are really only of value in PVP is complete crap. It is not a buff, that passive may as well not exist for PVE.

Bosmers are also supposed to be able to tame a damn animal, but have never been able to do that. To think that movement speed bursts are only valuable in pvp is absurd; what is the number one thing in this game that keeps you alive? Movement. There's not a damn thing in this game that's worth doing, that doesn't require mobility.

Edit: Also, I don't think OP's point sank in about stealthy passive being removed from races... This means that nightblades will finally be the best stealth class in the game, making this a much needed buff to nightblades, and a much needed nerf to stealth for other classes. Which honestly makes a lot of sense, considering stealth is an integral part of the nightblade... much more than it is a part of being bosmer. It's absolute nonsense that another class like a stamplar can simply choose to be bosmer and all of a sudden be as good at stealthing as an imperial nightblade. Besides, a bosmer can still stealth if they want to, just crouch.

Except it’s not, Khajiit kept the passive. If you like “thief” gameplay the only option will be an animal/furry. Before there were two options. Who doesn’t like more options for a fundamental way of playing every Elder Scrolls title to date.

BlueRaven

max_only wrote: »

ProbablePaul wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

... Stop being selfish and also take into consideration that there are 4 other classes which can't take advantage of stealth, so any stealth related passive is useless for everyone except Nightblades...

Holy [snip]... I didn't even consider that. Nightblade really is the true stealth class, no more fakers.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Left4Daud wrote: »

People that are upset that a race that has had stealth bonuses for years in this game, (and other games in the franchise) are “selfish” for mourning what they love about the race and their characters?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

This.
Bosmer have stealth bonuses. Bosmer have ALWAYS had stealth bonuses.

To take stealth away and replace it with two things that are really only of value in PVP is complete crap. It is not a buff, that passive may as well not exist for PVE.

Bosmers are also supposed to be able to tame a damn animal, but have never been able to do that. To think that movement speed bursts are only valuable in pvp is absurd; what is the number one thing in this game that keeps you alive? Movement. There's not a damn thing in this game that's worth doing, that doesn't require mobility.

Edit: Also, I don't think OP's point sank in about stealthy passive being removed from races... This means that nightblades will finally be the best stealth class in the game, making this a much needed buff to nightblades, and a much needed nerf to stealth for other classes. Which honestly makes a lot of sense, considering stealth is an integral part of the nightblade... much more than it is a part of being bosmer. It's absolute nonsense that another class like a stamplar can simply choose to be bosmer and all of a sudden be as good at stealthing as an imperial nightblade. Besides, a bosmer can still stealth if they want to, just crouch.

Except it’s not, Khajiit kept the passive. If you like “thief” gameplay the only option will be an animal/furry. Before there were two options. Who doesn’t like more options for a fundamental way of playing every Elder Scrolls title to date.

This.

If anything they should add give a THIRD race that is good at stealth.

Jameliel

Left4Daud wrote: »

People that are upset that a race that has had stealth bonuses for years in this game, (and other games in the franchise) are “selfish” for mourning what they love about the race and their characters?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

This. All the people who are new to TES games and those who are fair weather meta followers like the changes. Those of us who loved playing Bosmer for their special characteristics get a proverbial middle finger. They should add buffs to every race instead of randomly removing and adding as they always do.

notimetocare

olsborg wrote: »

Only races that I see came out of this bad is (as you said) khajit and dunmer.

Dont recall khajiit, but the summer changes are fine. An infinite scaling of 7% fire damage should never have existed.

Kadoin

I'm also happy for the changes. Looks like it will be even harder to gank me Can't wait!

BlueRaven

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think it's a mistake to give ANY race a passive that is purely for PvP-only. It's completely wasted for anyone who doesn't do PvP, or who won't do PvP on that particular character.

Agreed.

If every race got a bonus that is only useful in PvP it would not be be so annoying. But Bosmer is the ONLY race that has a PvP only talent. It needs to be changed BACK to being a stealth bonus.

Qbiken

At first glance I feel it might be a bit over the top. I can only imagine 20% movement speed with hasty retreat on a stamblade ot stamsorc. It's not like they're easy to catch as it is atm .

I do however like the idea behind having that kind of racial passive. Like Nords get more ultimate regen, bosmer get movement speed after dodgeroll etc. More races should have something unique in that way.

Konstant_Tel_Necris

Interesting how new racial will work with bow Major Expedition buff from rolling, and those two sets
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Senche's+Bite+Set
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Way+of+Air+Set

gepe87

Change passive speed to 7% and give 129 weapon damage.

LukosCreyden

If it'd make everyone happy, I'd say get rid of the stealth detection and have the sneaky passive, but keep the dodge roll.

Sun7dance

Wood Elves are no longer immune to the status effect of disease damage.
That's a huge nerf, especially for medium armour in pvp.
I don't understand ZOS kind of view here!