Why are streamers so unjustly glorified in every game, despite there being far better players?

Nyladreas

barney2525 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Cause they are in the public eye.

People that are really good play the game and thats why they are good.

I understand this. What I do NOT understand is what actually makes people believe they're good? It makes no sense to me.

Also, quite ironically, the actually good players who DO stream as well are usually barely popular. Don't know anyone specifically in ESO like that but wow had plenty.

To answer your question - Success

Success makes anyone believe that they are "good" and 'qualified' in whatever endeavor you want to name.

Now, my question to you is - Why do you care? What is it about streamers that irritates you sooooo much that you would bring this question to the forums?

I answered that above.

Grimm13

A mediocre streamer that gives insights and shares knowledge is more helpful than a better player that does not share what they have learned.

This is not a dig at any streamer to say they are inferior gamers, just using an analogy.

Nyladreas

Grimm13 wrote: »

A mediocre streamer that gives insights and shares knowledge is more helpful than a better player that does not share what they have learned.

This is not a dig at any streamer to say they are inferior gamers, just using an analogy.

Being helpful is still great. Once again I'm not against streamers or disliking them. I'm questioning people's decisions to crown them the ultimate kings or queens.

stojekarcub18_ESO

Actual good players aren't going to post their build and strategies online...they are gonna keep steamrolling you with them.

validifyedneb18_ESO

tbf usually streamers do make up some of the best players for big games anyway.

Skill attracts viewers, and playing 8+ hours a day allows you to get better at the game as if it where your job... I mean it would be your job. You play a lot of the game. Basically.

Disclaimer; I dont really watch any streamers for ESO, and I do think Alcast, while clearly amazing at ESO, makes build guides that tend to drive people in a direction of not understanding why but what to do, and his PVE builds only shine when in a full party comp of equally good builds for all the buffs.

Lady_Scorp72

Why are they successful? I think it's because many of them are charismatic, passionate gamers and watching them is fun. I honestly don't think it goes much deeper than they're entertaining to watch.

Also, what is a good player? By who's metric are we judging? I mean, my definition of "good" is someone who can theory craft and complete the hardest content in the game, so IMO most of the streamers qualify. True, it's 100% subjective, but I have yet to see any streamer touting themselves as the "best" or telling viewers that their builds and gameplay are the only options. On the contrary, I often see or hear them caution viewers that it's what works for them and YMMV.

The truth is that ESO has a steep learning curve for a lot of people, and the streamers make it more accessible and feel like success is more attainable. My experience is that more people use their advice and builds as a starting point rather than gospel, but even if they do, who cares? If they're wrong, then they'll fail and figure it out for themselves. Why waste the time and energy getting upset about what other people like or don't like, do or don't do?

MaxJrFTW

Sounds like jealousy to me. If you think you can do better then just go ahead and give it a try.

Thogard

PvP streamers have been trending towards BGs lately. Streaming a low MMR BG and going 20-1 is less impressive than streaming a high MMR BG and going 7-2. Most streamers get put in the high mmr matches because of how often they play.

Good PvPers know who other good PvPers are. PC NA has an entrenched dueling scene as well as a GvG scene. The people who are actively involved already have a good understanding of how good the high end players are or aren’t. Some streamers are better than others, but almost all of us are significantly above average.

If you don’t already know how good the streamer is from fighting with or against them in the various forms of PvP, odds are you aren’t even in the same league. Judging a player’s ability from what you see on their screen as opposed to actually fighting them is a terrible way to judge relative skill.

I will say that many of the best players in the game are too toxic to stream.

Not sure if this applies to PvE streamers though.

Nyladreas

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Sounds like jealousy to me. If you think you can do better then just go ahead and give it a try.

I never stated that I can do better. I honestly don't even really care about endgame as much anymore, since I have a meaningful career to pursue IRL now. I'm more in it for the community, story, RP and random adventures nowadays. Sure I sometimes hop in, but not on I want to be the best level.

That doesn't mean it won't raise the question I ask here (with proposed reasons), which obviously seems to get misunderstood or overlooked.

Finviuswe

Thogard wrote: »

PvP streamers have been trending towards BGs lately. Streaming a low MMR BG and going 20-1 is less impressive than streaming a high MMR BG and going 7-2. Most streamers get put in the high mmr matches because of how often they play.

Good PvPers know who other good PvPers are. PC NA has an entrenched dueling scene as well as a GvG scene. The people who are actively involved already have a good understanding of how good the high end players are or aren’t. Some streamers are better than others, but almost all of us are significantly above average.

If you don’t already know how good the streamer is from fighting with or against them in the various forms of PvP, odds are you aren’t even in the same league. Judging a player’s ability from what you see on their screen as opposed to actually fighting them is a terrible way to judge relative skill.

I will say that many of the best players in the game are too toxic to stream.

Not sure if this applies to PvE streamers though.

Thogard kick my ass enough time but hey

People still call me the DC hurtboy apparently lol.

MaxJrFTW

Nyladreas wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Sounds like jealousy to me. If you think you can do better then just go ahead and give it a try.

I never stated that I can do better. I honestly don't even really care about endgame as much anymore. I'm more in it for the story nowadays.

That doesn't mean it won't raise the question I ask here (with proposed reasons), which obviously seems to get misunderstood or overlooked.

They are entertainers, and more often than not they're really good players as well. Streaming isn't just about being good at a game, you gotta have a good personality, charisma, you gotta be able to entertain the masses, you have to produce quality content.

If you cannot understand why people follow and glorify streamers, then you're blinded by jealousy. That simple.

JackDaniell

Aĺl streamurs R bad

Nyladreas

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Sounds like jealousy to me. If you think you can do better then just go ahead and give it a try.

I never stated that I can do better. I honestly don't even really care about endgame as much anymore. I'm more in it for the story nowadays.

That doesn't mean it won't raise the question I ask here (with proposed reasons), which obviously seems to get misunderstood or overlooked.

They are entertainers, and more often than not they're really good players as well. Streaming isn't just about being good at a game, you gotta have a good personality, charisma, you gotta be able to entertain the masses, you have to produce quality content.

If you cannot understand why people follow and glorify streamers, then you're blinded by jealousy. That simple.

Being entertaining, interesting, funny, and having good heart or personality is always a great thing and I fully understand why that appeals to people.

I just tend to stop and think about it on a deeper level when people really start to give these people credit for something that someone else can do better.

If that's your definition of jealousy, so be it.

As far as I see it? I like to think, question things and ask.

Thogard

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

PvP streamers have been trending towards BGs lately. Streaming a low MMR BG and going 20-1 is less impressive than streaming a high MMR BG and going 7-2. Most streamers get put in the high mmr matches because of how often they play.

Good PvPers know who other good PvPers are. PC NA has an entrenched dueling scene as well as a GvG scene. The people who are actively involved already have a good understanding of how good the high end players are or aren’t. Some streamers are better than others, but almost all of us are significantly above average.

If you don’t already know how good the streamer is from fighting with or against them in the various forms of PvP, odds are you aren’t even in the same league. Judging a player’s ability from what you see on their screen as opposed to actually fighting them is a terrible way to judge relative skill.

I will say that many of the best players in the game are too toxic to stream.

Not sure if this applies to PvE streamers though.

Thogard kick my ass enough time but hey

People still call me the DC hurtboy apparently lol.

Tbh I stream for two reasons:
1. Working in finance is boring and I like streaming as a way to get creative. I have a bit where I act as an insult comic and mock my viewers. I have a ton of fun doing it, even if the humor isn’t appreciated by everyone.
2. I like to solo queue for BGs, but I get lonely doing that. Streaming is a great way for me to have people to talk to while I’m solo queued into BGs.

Arrodisia

well for starters there are different kinds of streamers.

Some streamers have no basis for their assumptions and some have experience and facts to show, and others just do it for laughs and fun with guildies.

Some do a lot of testing, showing the numbers and detailed conditions in the guides and streams they do. They sometimes want new players to have an easier time playing their chars so they enjoy the game more at the start, which isn't bad, to each his own and all that.

SO people want people to see the more casual side of the game and share their laughs and experiences while clearing or bumbling in content.

Others streamers just want their builds to be heard/seen and don't bother to test them in combat at all. so because they got carried by an op group for a match or like the setup of their build they call it op and say it's meta when it's sometimes clearly not, again to each his own. I do dislike the spread of misinformation, but instead of knocking them I rather just play on and never watch their videos again.

There are other types of streamers but sadly it's getting late. So I'll stop here.

Kudos to the people streaming who have the b@lls to play on camera, and give people the truth to the best of their ability. YOu all have a good night.

Nyladreas

Thogard wrote: »

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

PvP streamers have been trending towards BGs lately. Streaming a low MMR BG and going 20-1 is less impressive than streaming a high MMR BG and going 7-2. Most streamers get put in the high mmr matches because of how often they play.

Good PvPers know who other good PvPers are. PC NA has an entrenched dueling scene as well as a GvG scene. The people who are actively involved already have a good understanding of how good the high end players are or aren’t. Some streamers are better than others, but almost all of us are significantly above average.

If you don’t already know how good the streamer is from fighting with or against them in the various forms of PvP, odds are you aren’t even in the same league. Judging a player’s ability from what you see on their screen as opposed to actually fighting them is a terrible way to judge relative skill.

I will say that many of the best players in the game are too toxic to stream.

Not sure if this applies to PvE streamers though.

Thogard kick my ass enough time but hey

People still call me the DC hurtboy apparently lol.

Tbh I stream for two reasons:
1. Working in finance is boring and I like streaming as a way to get creative. I have a bit where I act as an insult comic and mock my viewers. I have a ton of fun doing it, even if the humor isn’t appreciated by everyone.
2. I like to solo queue for BGs, but I get lonely doing that. Streaming is a great way for me to have people to talk to while I’m solo queued into BGs.

And this is why I love you. And why I love streamers in general. Even the people and fans, they just make me ask questions like these.

A lot of people posting here seem to completely misunderstand that I'm not going against streamers or people, but rather their ways of thinking.

You're a very nice and humble person @Thogard and you taught me a lot.

Finviuswe

Thogard wrote: »

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

PvP streamers have been trending towards BGs lately. Streaming a low MMR BG and going 20-1 is less impressive than streaming a high MMR BG and going 7-2. Most streamers get put in the high mmr matches because of how often they play.

Good PvPers know who other good PvPers are. PC NA has an entrenched dueling scene as well as a GvG scene. The people who are actively involved already have a good understanding of how good the high end players are or aren’t. Some streamers are better than others, but almost all of us are significantly above average.

If you don’t already know how good the streamer is from fighting with or against them in the various forms of PvP, odds are you aren’t even in the same league. Judging a player’s ability from what you see on their screen as opposed to actually fighting them is a terrible way to judge relative skill.

I will say that many of the best players in the game are too toxic to stream.

Not sure if this applies to PvE streamers though.

Thogard kick my ass enough time but hey

People still call me the DC hurtboy apparently lol.

Tbh I stream for two reasons:
1. Working in finance is boring and I like streaming as a way to get creative. I have a bit where I act as an insult comic and mock my viewers. I have a ton of fun doing it, even if the humor isn’t appreciated by everyone.
2. I like to solo queue for BGs, but I get lonely doing that. Streaming is a great way for me to have people to talk to while I’m solo queued into BGs.

I've chiled in your stream for probably 50h+ lol it was insanely fun lol and funny lol I had a great time.

I'm glad more people are flocking to it? lol

Jamdarius

Nyladreas wrote: »

Title. I'm just confused why people glorify and accredit people who decided to slap a camera in front of their face and make fools of themselves, despite there being literally hundreds of far better players ingame who don't seek any sort of attention.

I guess the same question could be asked about real life celebrities, most of which make me barf and roll my eyes, but yeah... How come?

Seems silly and stupid, especially when I see so many people (fans) completely unable to think for themselves, or follow the crowd cause it's "cool".

Kinda sad.

Because people got to the point of being so lazy that instead of playing the game they enjoy watchng others play it cause it is 2 much trouble to sit on PC/Console and play yourself.

Having no time is invalid argument cause people spend hours watching streams... dunno maybe I am the weird one for saying it like that... who knows.

I remember certain streamer XYZ-san answering my question why is his yt channel filled with so many ads, and he said "it is my money" - I rly miss times when people posted movies on yt to show off their skills (for example how many headshots he/she made in shooter games) or truly make a guide for the sake of helping others, now all they care about is money and I hate it.

Anyways now the only way I am "watching streams" is launching old phone, login to twitch and counting on twitch drops next morning I wake up without even looking at the content of stream.

Thogard

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

PvP streamers have been trending towards BGs lately. Streaming a low MMR BG and going 20-1 is less impressive than streaming a high MMR BG and going 7-2. Most streamers get put in the high mmr matches because of how often they play.

Good PvPers know who other good PvPers are. PC NA has an entrenched dueling scene as well as a GvG scene. The people who are actively involved already have a good understanding of how good the high end players are or aren’t. Some streamers are better than others, but almost all of us are significantly above average.

If you don’t already know how good the streamer is from fighting with or against them in the various forms of PvP, odds are you aren’t even in the same league. Judging a player’s ability from what you see on their screen as opposed to actually fighting them is a terrible way to judge relative skill.

I will say that many of the best players in the game are too toxic to stream.

Not sure if this applies to PvE streamers though.

Thogard kick my ass enough time but hey

People still call me the DC hurtboy apparently lol.

Tbh I stream for two reasons:
1. Working in finance is boring and I like streaming as a way to get creative. I have a bit where I act as an insult comic and mock my viewers. I have a ton of fun doing it, even if the humor isn’t appreciated by everyone.
2. I like to solo queue for BGs, but I get lonely doing that. Streaming is a great way for me to have people to talk to while I’m solo queued into BGs.

I've chiled in your stream for probably 50h+ lol it was insanely fun lol and funny lol I had a great time.

I'm glad more people are flocking to it? lol

Thanks! I have enough people in there to keep me company so I’m happy with it I don’t make any money off it (no subscriptions or donations) so I don’t want to take away viewers from people who do need it.

My intentional toxicity for comedic effect scares most people away so I’ve only been the top streamer once or twice, but I’ve always got company so I’m happy

Finviuswe

Thogard wrote: »

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

PvP streamers have been trending towards BGs lately. Streaming a low MMR BG and going 20-1 is less impressive than streaming a high MMR BG and going 7-2. Most streamers get put in the high mmr matches because of how often they play.

Good PvPers know who other good PvPers are. PC NA has an entrenched dueling scene as well as a GvG scene. The people who are actively involved already have a good understanding of how good the high end players are or aren’t. Some streamers are better than others, but almost all of us are significantly above average.

If you don’t already know how good the streamer is from fighting with or against them in the various forms of PvP, odds are you aren’t even in the same league. Judging a player’s ability from what you see on their screen as opposed to actually fighting them is a terrible way to judge relative skill.

I will say that many of the best players in the game are too toxic to stream.

Not sure if this applies to PvE streamers though.

Thogard kick my ass enough time but hey

People still call me the DC hurtboy apparently lol.

Tbh I stream for two reasons:
1. Working in finance is boring and I like streaming as a way to get creative. I have a bit where I act as an insult comic and mock my viewers. I have a ton of fun doing it, even if the humor isn’t appreciated by everyone.
2. I like to solo queue for BGs, but I get lonely doing that. Streaming is a great way for me to have people to talk to while I’m solo queued into BGs.

I've chiled in your stream for probably 50h+ lol it was insanely fun lol and funny lol I had a great time.

I'm glad more people are flocking to it? lol

Thanks! I have enough people in there to keep me company so I’m happy with it I don’t make any money off it (no subscriptions or donations) so I don’t want to take away viewers from people who do need it.

My intentional toxicity for comedic effect scares most people away so I’ve only been the top streamer once or twice, but I’ve always got company so I’m happy

No need to from where this games headed none of us will need to intend much of anything lol

Truly an interesting experiment in happenstance, eh?

jluchau

why is someone making him/herself known to everyone who plays a particular game by broadcasting themselves getting more recognition than someone who is a better player but doesn't let anyone see it?

The answer seems obvious, but... visibility.

Gilvoth

Nyladreas wrote: »

Title. I'm just confused why people glorify and accredit people who decided to slap a camera in front of their face and make fools of themselves, despite there being literally hundreds of far better players ingame who don't seek any sort of attention.

I guess the same question could be asked about real life celebrities, most of which make me barf and roll my eyes, but yeah... How come?

Seems silly and stupid, especially when I see so many people (fans) completely unable to think for themselves, or follow the crowd cause it's "cool".

Kinda sad.

well said.
all truth.

Knightpanther

I wouldn't watch one of those self promoting idiots if you paid me, there's a choice, just ignore them.

Be safe

Sylvermynx

Knightpanther wrote: »

I wouldn't watch one of those self promoting idiots if you paid me, there's a choice, just ignore them.

Be safe

Yeah. I don't watch people play games. Period. Especially I don't watch people play a game I'm playing myself.

Mashille

Not all people watch ESO Streamers because they are "good" at the game or "pro".

I was always a fan of Deltia streaming and playing ESO from 2015 up to when he quit but Deltia was never "great" at ESO or a quote on quote "pro" player. He was just a really entertaining personality to watch and listen to. That's why he gained a large following and why he was respected in the ESO community.

ecru

Most people don't know/can't recognize who is good, and there are very few good players to begin with. If I stream vCR+3, do the 99.99% of players who will never clear the instance show up to watch my stream? No, it's more like 2-3 people, maybe a few more if I'm lucky, and no new followers.

MissBizz

Not all streamers claim to be good at this game at all ya know. But to your post ... If the better players dont post/publicize their knowledge, there is no way for the masses to follow their lead right? So to streamers they go.

StormChaser3000

I don't know how good, for example, Allcast in PvP, but he has extremely good advices on his website for beginners. I know some people in my guild who were very successful in combat thanks to his builds.
A bunch of other streamers also share interesting builds that can be used by players with or without adjustments.

I personally don't watch streams, but the ones I glanced (ourobors crates drops ) were actually hosted by people who are somewhat artistic by their nature. They don't sit there with stone face and push buttons, but instead they create a whole show for the audience and actively engage with it.

It's not my thing (why to watch other when I can play myself?) but for other people it's an entertainment and they grow attached to those streamers.

And honestly, if I was forced to watch a stream, I'd rather choose a clumsy clown over some grumpy/overly serious PvP god.

scholar666

I don't glorify streamers. I love to watch people doing hard mode trials so I can learn from it. When they beat it, I feel happy for them. I currently don't have a solid group to do HM vet trials but want to see the mechanics in action, so I watch streams sometimes, while doing chores and such. Simple as that. I don't mind when people promote themselves, it doesn't affect me in anyway. Live and let live. Don't have to follow them blindly nor hate on them. Neutral.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

I think it has to do with celebrity in general. Whether realized or not I think a lot of folks live vicariously through others.